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Yamaha cr-420 DC offset?

sniperdolan

Happy AK Member
I just picked up a Yamaha cr-420. The dc voltage on the Right and Left Channels is reading about 115mV on the back. Anybody have a service manual so I can figure out how to adjust these properly. I tried adjusting what I thought was it and it didn't do anything so I put the trim pots back in their original position.

It does currently work I just don't want to hurt my speakers.

Thanks,
Dolan
 
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The DC Offset in the CR-420 is notoriously high...no adjustment, but somewhere around in these forums a member developed a resistor tweak that lowered the DC to "normal" levels. I think that it was an oversight at Yamaha.

I've had six CR-420s run through my place and they NEVER had offsets less than 50 mV per channel.

EDIT: Found it!! Please see post 1--it's long, but this is the solution...I have yet to try it myself, but I'm certainly tempted.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1736696
 
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Okay thank you very much. I'm amazed by the amount of knowledge on ak once again. Well my guess that being I'm reading 115mv something else is probably a bit out of tune to.

Well sounds like if I want to use it I should probably do it. Probably a good rainy day project when I'm feeling crazy. I got $40 into it so, if I hurt in the process of trying it wouldn't be the end of the world. I really like how many features it has for how little it is. Planning on using with a pair of athena bookshelfs.
 
If you have 115mV, the transistors in your differential stage are probably mismatched.

You will hurt nothing with my resistor tweak solution. I recommand however to turn the power off when you change the bypass resistors. If you don't turn off the power, you may have a large (~1V) momentary (~1sec) voltage that may trigger the protection circuit.

It is funny that this thread rebounds... no latter than yesterday I fixed the same problem, with the same solution, in a CA-410
 
CR-420 Bias and Offset Adjustments?

Hi,
I need a little Help about the both Pots and the Jumpers.
How to measure? Where?

Is there any SM Desciption about? I have the Schematics, but no Description.

Thank You,
Darko
 
Darko,

The schematic you have is probably the one I scanned from my Owner's manual, and have uploaded on a few sites. Sorry but I don't have the service manual.

The only adjustment trim pots in the CR-420 are for the most important Bias adjustments. They are identified as VR401, for the left channel, and VR402 for the right channel.

When you look at the board from the front of the receiver, VR401 is close to the heat sink, on the left side of the board, and VR402 is on the right side of the board.

For the Bias adjustments, measure the voltage across any one of the 0.47 Ohm power resistors, close to the power transistors. Adjust the corresponding Bias trim pots for a reading of 20mV ±3mV

For the Offset adjustments, it is a modification of my own and it is amply described in my previous thread. You will never see this in the service manual.

In short, the problem is that the collector's currents in both transistors of each differential input stage are not equal and the best way to correct this is by triming the value of resistors R407, for the left channel, and R408, for the right channel.

You can replace R407 and R408 by a multiturn 1.5k trim pot, preferably with the adjustment screw on the top, and pre-adjusted to 1kOhms before soldering in place.

In my experience, and other's experience too, the original offset is negative. This implies that you should reduce the value of the original resistors R407 and R408 in order to bring the offset close to 0mV.

The method I proposed (with the jumpers) is cost effective. It cost nothing in fact because we all have a large assortment of resistors, no? I simply bypass the original resistor with another resistor, and change the value of this resistor (you may use a 10k external potentiometer if you prefer) until the offset is 0mV. Then, I solder this resistor in parallel with the original resistor.
 
Yamaha CR-420 BIAS and DC-Offset with eclusers Mod's

Hi ecluser,

Thank You Sir!
That is very nice and helpfull.

:thmbsp:

I jump right now in to the Wires...
- First DC-Offset Measure
- Both 1k2, R407 and R408 replacing with 620ohm
- Second DC-Offset Measure
- Setting Up BIAS
- Measure again the DC-Offset

Will report ;-)

Best Regards,
Darko

UPDATE:
I put some 820 Ohm instead the 1200 Ohm - Offset was before 61mV and 78mV, after 38mV and 49mV. Huh? It works!
OK- Replaced the 820 Ohm with 1K Potentiometers. Set them on the Middle Range, Adjust and: 0.0001mV and 0,000mV

BIAS before: 67mV and 83mV, after Adjustment: 20,1mV and 20,0mV - after 1H, its slight warm. Less than before.

SOUND: I cant hear any Difference, but Iam feel better now :-)

ONCE AGAIN: THANK YOU ECLUSER! YOU'R THA MAN
 
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Hi

I'm thinking about buying a 420 that's going on ebay.

Can someone please explain why a high DC offset is bad?

edit: OK, just noticed the sticky explanation. Not sure if I'll find someone who could do the offset adjustment (I can't). Would the receiver, with high DC offset, likely damage my speakers (JBL L19's) or orthodynamic headphones, or have an audible effect?
 
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You know (from Ohm's law) that 100mV into 6 Ohms (typical DC resistance of a 8 Ohms speaker) gives only 1.7mW of power.

You will not damage ANY speaker, I have ever seen, with such a low DC voltage.

The DC voltage at the headphone is less than that, once the headphone is connected, so don't worry.
 
I just finished restoring a CR-420. Now I get intermittent distortion in the right channel that will go away if I crank up the volume a bit. I found that the bias voltage on the right side drops to zero. Could this be a bad transistor? I replaced the transistor from a parts unit and the problem seemed to go away but now it's back. My Guesses so far are bad transistor (ASC458), Bad Trace, cold Solder joint, or could this be a bad trimmer pot? Would a bad transistor show as a voltage drop at the test points?

P.S. how do you start a new thread with the new AK interface?
 
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