It seems tremendous ink has been given to 'bathing' the latest crop of Julliard and Manhattan School Of Music talent in the spotlight of the NY Times.
These individuals are to be sure, note perfect, but the reading, the interpretation of the works played leaves me cold, almost as cold as the temps here in NYC! One just can not get worked up...

Case in point, some works of Liszt were played...the assembled all raved...I just shrugged my shoulders and said if only....if only....my wife said if only what? I lamented that the masters of the piano were turning in their graves listening to these readings.

If only students were taught like the the masters of old..I invite all McIntosh classical piano lovers to pick up the following CD. "Welte-Mignon 1905"

What you will hear is the students of Franz Liszt playing.....that is correct...in 1905 they all cut rolls for the Welte-Mignon Company. This disc has the following "talent". Eugen d'Albert, Emil van Sauer, Bernhard Stavenhagen, Ferruccio Busoni, Max Reger, Claude Debussy, Manual De Falla, and Enrique Granados!
The playing is just out of this world....the technique without fault....

The disc is Teldec # 8.43931

This is what McIntosh was made for!:music: :music: :music: :music: :music:

Thanks for the hint.

These days things are different. The people today want to be able to play 'Rachmaninoff in 90 days'. I started to learn piano 2 years ago. I exercise every day 1 -2 hours. I am just able to play the small pieces from Schumann, 'Treallerliedschen' and such or the 'Minuettes' from Bach. This is not because my teacher is unable to teach me. It is because I learn it the old way. And this is a lot of work. And I guess I will able to read notes fluidly in 2 or 3 years. But who wants to learn notes these days. Today a lot of teachers say that exercising 'Hanon' is bad. Well, Horrowitz exercised Hanon every day. Those are the Teachers who teach you pieces, not Music. Just because someone can play the Piano doe's not mean you can teach it. I got to go to the Piano, I have not exercised today.;)

Rudy

Rudy!

Late in life Serge composed the wonderful Symphonic Dances, I have this for four hand piano and full orch.....it is wonderful....:thmbsp:

Have your teacher prep you for Schuberts Erlkonig, what a piece especially with the Franz Liszt transcription!:yes: :yes:

Is the the CD you speak of? http://www.amazon.de/Klavierkonzert-4-Klavierkonz-Kurt-Masur/dp/B000088DTE

I'll try to get the Symphonic Dances.

I just received my 3 batch ( 6 SACDs) from Telarc. They have a promotion going on. $5.00 off every SACD purchase. And the Telarc SACD are one of the best.

I'll keep Schuberts Erlkonig in mind, thanks for the hint. At the moment I am preparing for the Schuman pieces. I want to play 'Almost to Serious', my favorite. And than we go to Bach's Inventions (To learn Counterpoint).

Do you know Listzt's Todtentanz? Absolutely Glorious, one of my favorites.

25 years ago I was listening to Deep Purple and Floyd. Theses days I am totally hooked on Classical. There is so much to discover. That is the reason why I started to learn Piano. IMO, to really appreciate classical music one should learn an instrument.

Rudy

PH, that is not the CD I was speaking about.:no:

Rudy, two pieces of music changed my way of thinking, and caused me to be an outcast in Jr. High....aka....nerd......one was Franz Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody # 6, the other, George Gershwins Rhapsody In Blue. Talk about 180 degrees apart! Point is classical music hit me like a ton of bricks...I never looked back with 7k Lps, 300 open reel tapes, several hundred CDs, cassettes, and Super Beta tapes....It also helped that a former friend was schooled as a classical musician here in NYC. I am lucky...I am a ten minute walk to Avery Fisher Hall, and the Lincoln Center complex....most exciting concert? About 20 years ago sat on stage with my wife and was slack-jawed as Andre Watts played a complete Liszt program.....we both were speechless........:yes: :yes: :D :D

If you like Liszt may I recommennd a CD;
http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Fantasy-Liszt-Transcendental-Etudes/dp/B000003FY4/sr=1-14/qid=1170989601/ref=sr_1_14/103-2647598-3132655?ie=UTF8&s=music
The liszt transcendental etudes on this CD are amazing both in sound and performance. The No. 11 "Harmonies du soir" sounds spectacular on a large system with a minimal compression, one of the best piano sounds on CD, give it a try.

PH, that is not the CD I was speaking about.

If possible, can you provide us with a link to the CD that you are talking about.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt,

I am not sure how to cut and paste,:scratch2: so do a Google search under Welte-Mignon 1905- Teldec 8.43931. You will see the disc ...in addition when you do the search you will see all the discs in the series...as they recorded many of the rolls from 1905....this series should be required for any student of the piano..Chopin....the great master was Ignaz Freedman....thank God these rolls were saved....I have many from different companies including Harold Powells (sp) Klavier label.

Vahe,

Thanks for the suggestion, I would have walked over to Tower Records to check it out, but as of two weeks ago Tower closed :tears: :tears: .....first HMv about ten years ago, now Tower......the only place left to purchase CDs in my area is Barnes&Noble:no: ....directly across the street from where Tower was.....FYI...with Tower gone the void will be filled with a giant TJ Macs..just what the area needs...please...no more Starbucks, or Duane Reed stores!!:thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :tears: :tears:

do a Google search under Welte-Mignon 1905- Teldec 8.43931. You will see the disc ...in addition when you do the search you will see all the discs in the series...

Found them. Thanks!

-----------------
Teldec 8.43931:
Welte-Mignon 1905. Berühmte Kom ponisten spielen eigene Werke. Liszt-Schüler spielen Liszt. Schallplattenausgabe 1971 - Signatur: TK 86/183-4.

Enthält: Debussy: Estampes Nr. 2: La soirée dans Grenade (Claude Debussy); Granados: Danzas españolas Nr. 10 (Enrique Granados); Liszt: Légendes Nr. 2: Saint François de Paule ‹marchant sur les flotsŠ (Bernhard Stavenhagen); Liszt: Trois études de concert Nr. 3: Un sospiro; Liszt: Liebestraum Nr. 3 As-Dur (Eugène d'Albert); Liszt: Étu des d'exécution transcendante Nr. 4: Mazeppa (Emil von Sauer); Liszt: Grande étude de Paganini Nr. 3: La campa nella (Ferruccio Busoni); Liszt: Rigoletto. Paraphrase de concert (nach Giuseppe Verdi) (Ferruccio Busoni); Liszt: Ungarische Rhapsodie Nr. 12 cis-Moll (Bernhard Staven hagen); Liszt: Valse impromptu (Eugène d'Albert); Reger: Humoreske g-Moll (Max Reger); Reger: Intermezzo Nr. 3 es-Moll (Max Reger).
-----------------

MCB,

Get ready to travel back to a better time!

...Classical music is basically dead. No one cares about the music anymore, preferring, instead , to market piano trios comprised of hot babes and metrosexuals that look good in black and white.
I graduated from Juliard Pre-College in 1988. I turned on the Van Cliburn competition on PBS about 12 years later, heard the winners play their final performances, and thought to myself " I wouldn't have even gotten past the preliminaries if I played like that when I was studying." It just seems the standards have gotten painfully low at this point in time


I'll be sure to find this recording you're raving about. The last great piano recording I know of is Perraiah's (sorry about the spelling on that one -- it's late) Goldberg Variations , circa 2002, which are really on par with Gould's and Tureck's and arguably better if you ask me.

I'm especially interested to hear Debussy. How's his playing?


It seems tremendous ink has been given to 'bathing' the latest crop of Julliard and Manhattan School Of Music talent in the spotlight of the NY Times.
These individuals are to be sure, note perfect, but the reading, the interpretation of the works played leaves me cold, almost as cold as the temps here in NYC! One just can not get worked up...

Case in point, some works of Liszt were played...the assembled all raved...I just shrugged my shoulders and said if only....if only....my wife said if only what? I lamented that the masters of the piano were turning in their graves listening to these readings.

If only students were taught like the the masters of old..I invite all McIntosh classical piano lovers to pick up the following CD. "Welte-Mignon 1905"

What you will hear is the students of Franz Liszt playing.....that is correct...in 1905 they all cut rolls for the Welte-Mignon Company. This disc has the following "talent". Eugen d'Albert, Emil van Sauer, Bernhard Stavenhagen, Ferruccio Busoni, Max Reger, Claude Debussy, Manual De Falla, and Enrique Granados!
The playing is just out of this world....the technique without fault....

The disc is Teldec # 8.43931

This is what McIntosh was made for!:music: :music: :music: :music: :music:

I am especially fond of Debussy and Erik Satie. Hearing Claude actually play from Estampe 2 La Soiree dans Grenade is remarkable, because of technique, and what I call soul, something missing for many many years. I will admit that I am addicted to the masters playing their own works on piano rolls...I have listened to dozens of works on Duo-Art reproducing pianos....these are not the crude player pianos of years past but rather pianos with the ability of expression, the rolls recorded the very essence of technique they were for the very rich...thankfully many have been restored and well maintained. Do a Google on Duo-Art and or reproducing pionos...it is a fascinating history!


...Classical music is basically dead. No one cares about the music anymore, preferring, instead , to market piano trios comprised of hot babes and metrosexuals that look good in black and white.
I graduated from Juliard Pre-College in 1988. I turned on the Van Cliburn competition on PBS about 12 years later, heard the winners play their final performances, and thought to myself " I wouldn't have even gotten past the preliminaries if I played like that when I was studying." It just seems the standards have gotten painfully low at this point in time


I'll be sure to find this recording you're raving about. The last great piano recording I know of is Perraiah's (sorry about the spelling on that one -- it's late) Goldberg Variations , circa 2002, which are really on par with Gould's and Tureck's and arguably better if you ask me.

I'm especially interested to hear Debussy. How's his playing?

Magno and Laemmle,

Here's a contemporary pianist that we have heard in person twice. I'd be very interested in your comparative take on this performer's skill level to some of the talents that you have referenced.

http://www.konstantinlifschitz.com/e_musik.htm


My wife and I love to attend the symphony and pretty much any other live performance of classical music - as well as non classical. However, not being musicians, we can only compare one performer to the next which is a very unscientific, overly subjective comparison.

We have found Lifschitz to be the best thus far. If you are referencing superior talents, that is very exciting as we are always looking to find better and better recordings [and/or living performers].

Sincerely,
Matt

...Classical music is basically dead. No one cares about the music anymore, preferring, instead , to market piano trios comprised of hot babes and metrosexuals that look good in black and white.

The above statement is basically correct, a true statement if you glance at the big picture, look at the vast population around you and see what type of music they listen to.
But then the same bleak picture also applies to hi-end audio, using the same argument the hi-end audio is also dead, but it really is not, both classical music and hi-end audio are alive and well but they will always be a NICHE area appreciated by a small number of people, even if this niche market shrinks to nothing in the US of A we still have the Europe and Japan to be thankful for carrying the torch.

Another group of cds to find are the series "Great Pianists Of The Golden Era" on the Italian label fone dist by Allegro Imports. Some of the 'talent' represented: Alexander Siloti, Arthur friedheim, Ignace Jan Paderewski, Fredderic Lamond, A. Rubinstein, L. Godowsky, W. Landowska and others.

Additionally look for "The Performing Piano" on the Newport Classics label..these realized rolls on a Knabe Ampico B reproducing Piano.

Ampico and Duo-Art were the Betamax and VHS of their day..especially exciting is Sergei Rachmaninoff playing his own Prelude in C Sharp Minor! WOW!

Wait till you hear Erwin Nyiregyhazi pound out the Liszt Mazeppa...the problem is listening to present day recordings of the same works!

Laemmle, there are still some good pianists today.
Like Stephen Hough. My favorite Rachmaninoff CD is :

Andrew Litton - Stephen Hough - Dallas Symphony Orchestra - The Piano Concertos - Paganini Rhapsody - Hyperion 67501/2.

I compare this to :

Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff - The 4 Piano Concertos - Paganini Rhapsody - RCA Victor Gold Seal 090026-61658-2

Hough is the closest to Rachmaninoff I have heard so far. Not Wild, Richter, Lang Lang or Janis come even close.

Btw Lang Lang. I just received the SACD 'Lang Lang:Recorded Live at Seiji Ozawa Hall, Tanglewood' Telarc SACD-60524. Awesome.:thmbsp:

Rudy

It seems tremendous ink has been given to 'bathing' the latest crop of Julliard and Manhattan School Of Music talent in the spotlight of the NY Times.
These individuals are to be sure, note perfect, but the reading, the interpretation of the works played leaves me cold, almost as cold as the temps here in NYC! One just can not get worked up...

Case in point, some works of Liszt were played...the assembled all raved...I just shrugged my shoulders and said if only....if only....my wife said if only what? I lamented that the masters of the piano were turning in their graves listening to these readings.

If only students were taught like the the masters of old..I invite all McIntosh classical piano lovers to pick up the following CD. "Welte-Mignon 1905"

What you will hear is the students of Franz Liszt playing.....that is correct...in 1905 they all cut rolls for the Welte-Mignon Company. This disc has the following "talent". Eugen d'Albert, Emil van Sauer, Bernhard Stavenhagen, Ferruccio Busoni, Max Reger, Claude Debussy, Manual De Falla, and Enrique Granados!
The playing is just out of this world....the technique without fault....

The disc is Teldec # 8.43931

This is what McIntosh was made for!:music: :music: :music: :music: :music:

I've searched and searched using the internet but haven't been able to find this CD for sale anywhere. Has anyone a link for purchasing this CD and the others that have been mentioned in this forum?
Thank you
Keith

Keith,

Did you do a Google search? It is there you just have to keep scrolling down..another Aker found it...check page one of the thread posts...

Keith,

It seams that 'Welte-Mignon 1905' is hard to find. But the others you'll find on Amazon.com or www.acousticsounds.com or www.arkivmusic.com. Especially ArkivMusic.com is one of the main source for Classical CD's. I would avoid Towerecords.com, because they are mostly backordered. I wait since a month for some CD's and I will not order there again. And for CD reviews for classical music look at http://www.classicstoday.com/

Rudy

Keith,

If you can not find it, PM me with your address and I will burn you a copy.

L

Laemmle Keith,

Did you do a Google search? It is there you just have to keep scrolling down..another Aker found it...check page one of the thread posts...

Yes I found that link but its just a list as far as I can tell, I don't see anyplace on that site that you can order.
http://www.ub.uni-freiburg.de/portale/mus/900/welte.html

Thank you
Keith

Keith,

It seams that 'Welte-Mignon 1905' is hard to find. But the others you'll find on Amazon.com or www.acousticsounds.com or www.arkivmusic.com. Especially ArkivMusic.com is one of the main source for Classical CD's. I would avoid Towerecords.com, because they are mostly backordered. I wait since a month for some CD's and I will not order there again. And for CD reviews for classical music look at http://www.classicstoday.com/

Rudy

Rudy,
Thank you for the links.. Some wonderful classical music available on those sites:music:

Keith