View Full Version : Philips Gear
I have a friend who has a set fo Philips seperates. Pre-amp, amp and tuner. All are black faced (I can get model #'s for reference) and in good working condition. He wants $400.00 Canadian for the set. Is this reasonable. The amp is quite heavy and has seperate meters for each channel. I don't know much about Philips laboratory gear. Any info is appreciated.
10-12-2003, 06:08 PM
the model#'s sure would help.theres been alot of threads on ak regarding philips equiptment,especially about the tuners.just do a search on philips.philips gear seems to be a sleeper name but the word seems to be getting out about thier hi fi lab equiptment.$400cdn doesnt seem bad at all if all the gear is working proprely.im sure others will comment on this thread and you can take it from there.regards,
by the way if he'd consider selling the items seperate id be interested in the tuner.
10-12-2003, 07:44 PM
Oh, you don't want it. It is terrible and junk. Oh, I have a question for your friend could you give me his name and #. Search here and also in the equipment review section for my comments on mine and others comments. Things to look for - do all the capacitive switches work? Also, the loudness and tone control circuits of the preamp had problems in early production run so check to see they are right. All units run cool. The tuner should be about as good as you've heard and in terms of sensitivity in both am and fm. No turn on thumps. If the meters do not lie at zero (nil), with power on but no signal, don't fret there is an adjustment a tech can handle easily. At wide open through phono and hi-level, with no signal, there should no almost no perceptible hiss (unless you're running K'horns). Channel balance throughout the volume control range should be dead even.
The circuit boards are wired using a computer like connector and depending on how the units have been treated may need cleaning.
Other questions - send me a private email and I'll try to help. The power amp or tuner in good working condition is worth the asking price. Considering the amp is 210 rms @ 8 ohms - that's what $.90 Cdn (about $.68/watt US). Can't go wrong. Heck, if you buy them and they are not blown and for any reason you don;t want them, I'd like a backup system.
Oh, model numbers:
Tuner 6731 (673 is the silver version)
Preamp 5721 (572 is silver faceplate)
Amp 5781 (578 is silver version).
10-12-2003, 08:54 PM
the tuner could also be the 185 silver or 1851 black.
10-12-2003, 09:17 PM
hey brian,just wondering if you ever tried one of these tuners.they dont have all the bells and whistles of the 673 but l suspect that the sound should resemble the 673?by the way i have a review on the ah673 from the consumer stereo and equiptment guide winter 1978.i will scan it and post it if your interested.heres some additional philips models from theaugust 1980 edition
ah180 am/fm digital $559.95
ah787 60w 369.95
ah786 45w 329.95
ah785 30w $239.95
ah784 20w $199.95
by the way the price of the ah673 was $599 in 1978
i hope this info helps with some of the specs .i also have a list of the turntables tape decks and speaker specs if anyone wants them
Thanks guys. I'll post when I hook up with him later this week with the model #'s. They aren't going anywhere and he stated that I have first dibs on em', so no worries there.
10-13-2003, 11:26 AM
I'd love to get a copy of the tuner reveiw. I've not been able to locate copies of it. There is also a review of the power amp but, have not been able to rack it down either. Have not spent time looking for the information on the integrated or the 851/1851 but now that things will quiet down at work until the end of the year, I'll start putting together the documents I have and start the search for the receiver and integrated amptuner information. Not part of the Lab Series were the 4504 and 4506 tape decks and the 213/427 (the 212 was actually out of production when the series went into sales) turntables. When, well if, I complete the Lab series I'll start with the tape decks and turntables that would have been of the same period. Thank you for the other information. I'll add it to the "catalog".
Oh, I've yet to see a 7861 on eBay. A couple of the 7851s have been listed and a fair number of the 7841 and 7831. I have only seen 1 silver faced, a couple of the silver faced tuners and preamps while no silver faced amps. Since popular theory was the black faced was restricted to PX sales it would appear the GIs preferred them to the civilian populations. But the black faced units were in the dealer catalog and were the units we tested so the reality seems to be that the silver faced units are scarce and these may be the source of the 400 unit production number that is floating around.
10-13-2003, 12:12 PM
i'll get around to posting the review today,i first have to haul down the scannner from the upstairs computer which recently crashed.there was a blacked faceed 1851 tuner that ended on ebay yesterday needless to say that i lost out on that one.theres also a 785 reciever,ah5721 preamp,and a ah5781.the reciever might be something to go after as its had no bids yet.
i dont know if you know this or not but in my price guide the price difference between the black face gear and the silver was $20 more for the blackfaced stuff(interesting).i came acrss a n2535 tape deck also but the seller ended the auction early .i emailed him to see if he still has it.hopefully he gets back to me.i myself dont own any of the lab series stuff but im working out a deal with a ak member for a 185 tuner and a ah386 integrated.any experience with these.by the way let me know if you want prices for the different models of tape decks,speakers,and turntables.
by the way do you have any photos of the various amps recievers etc.id love to have some for my references.
10-13-2003, 12:48 PM
I don't have experience with the 185/386 but another whom I've talked (emailed) with has a set that he likes quite well and is using them in his main system with a set of A/D/S 810s, Thorens 125II with SME and a Revox A-77. He had a H-K 402 (can't remember the tuner but it was the matching unit) in the 1st chair prior to these and likes the H-K better in some respects.
The blackfaced units had a suggested price that was slightly less than the silver faced. The PX price was about $100 less for the separates. I've not delved into the tape decks to any extent, instead relying on an email from the host of the Philips MFB speaker site who has an interest in the deck. The 4504 and 06 were based on the transport that was standard Philips but was beefed up and the electronics upgraded to compete in the high-end area of the MFB and Lab Series. His experince has been the Philips decks are not in the class of Revox, etc. and are prone to problems. My 4506 has a end of tape issue which he told me he's got 6 4506s in his basement with the same problem. I'm going to get mine looked after when I see what tape I want to set up for but, I suspect it won't get the use my old Revox used to. It seems Philips was a major hi-fi player in the world except in the US with the tables.
I've looked at buying the 185/386 combo and eventually will probably do so once I push out some of my current stuff. WIfey just keep looking at a pile that keep slowly getting taller, shakes her head and mutters that she was better off when I collected cameras.
10-13-2003, 12:56 PM
Oh, BTW, are you going to bid on the 851. If not, since he does ship WW, I'll take a stab at it.
10-13-2003, 02:11 PM
hi brian go ahead bid on the amp,
i might go for the receiver though.anyways i have the review scanned but when i resize it and then open it up you wont be able to read it.if you give me your email adress i send it to you.
10-13-2003, 02:19 PM
My brain is up may toenail today. I meant the receiver so I will not bid. It finally has 1 bid.
10-13-2003, 02:43 PM
my brains kinda dull today too.im gonnaa bid on it but only up to $21.so if you were gonna bid more go for it.i already have enough gear on its way including a mcintosh mc30 ,pioneer sx780 and probally the philips combo from nukemmicrosoft.so this should keep me busy for awhile.anyways heres my email adress just in case you dont want to give yours out .
give me a shout and ill fire off that review
10-13-2003, 03:15 PM
10-13-2003, 03:27 PM
10-13-2003, 03:32 PM
10-13-2003, 04:48 PM
Got the sucker! Now to see if it will make the long journey and arrive in other than kit form.
10-13-2003, 04:58 PM
way to go brian,
i was watching the auction too.i figured it wouldnt go for too much more than the opening bid.like i said too much stuff coming in around here and not enough leaving otherwise i would have grabbed it myself.also alot of people dont know what was.anyways youll have to give me a review of it once you get it ,and dont forget some big picture files. if you hurry the preamps still there although i dont know if youd want 2 of them.
10-13-2003, 05:01 PM
No not interested in another preamp at the moment. These actually are not as rare as the tuners and poweramps. The poweramps seem the rarest for resales.
Ok guys. The amp is a Philips BA-1200 and the pre-amp is a BA-1000 and the tuner begins with BA as well. The amp is rated 150 wpc although the meters go up to 200. Can't find any info on it. Any ideas?
10-14-2003, 06:43 PM
LPD - I search Orions and found nothing on them. A google search came up with the Philips BA-1200 as a bulb. Could be something not brought into the States. Do you own these?
I am mistaken by the model #'s. I am thinking of purchasing the set from a friend for $400.00 Canadian. The model # of the pre-amp is PA-1000 and the amp is PA-1200. There is a matching tuner as well, but I can't remember the model #'s. Maybe its European, not sure. He says it runs on 120V though. I searched the net and couldn't find anything anywhere. The amp has two huge meters, an ON/OFF switch and thats it. It states 150wpc, and the meters go up to 200 watts. Its satin black in color.
10-15-2003, 01:45 AM
ive just been searching around too and cant find anything either.i double checked my consumer reports and cant find anything either.would it be possible for you to get a picture and post it of the tuner ,amp ,and preamp.also do they say philips hi fi labs on them?if i rember correctly you stated earlier that they were.just checking..anyways see if you can get some pics and ill do some more searching myself.bye for now..........................
10-15-2003, 09:54 AM
I've come up empty but, that is not a real surprise. On the net, there is only 1 site with a single page on the Lab Series and it is more in passing than anything else. The only indepth (so to speak) net traffic seems to be the motional feedback speakers. $400CDN is not exactly cheap but OTOH if it sounds good and you are a keeper and not a flipper, it may be a good buy. I've always been of the opinion that if I like it, I buy it. Not long ago there was no traffic on the Lab Series. You could start a whole new discussion and possibly these are rarer than the Lab Series. I'm finding it almost as interesting searching out information on the series as listening (well, not quite). Nice project.
10-15-2003, 10:50 AM
i cant seem to find anything else also.i guess we need some pics.
brian ,i came across what magazines that have reviews of the philips ah384 45watt integrated.its in stereo review nov78 issue.
the ah572 preamp is in both the audio magazine nov77 and also high fidelity nov77.now all you have to do is find copies of these mags.hope this helps.
10-15-2003, 12:59 PM
came across this on the net.thought youd migh like to check it out.its on ebay. heres the linkphilips ah7871 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053307688&category=3279&rd=1)
also notice that its black.
10-16-2003, 07:50 AM
Thank you for the information. The receiver is interesting and the first I've seen for sale. Wish it were in Canada/US. but I'll follow it just in case. I've not located but I do have reprints of the preamp tests. After the 15th, I enjoyed resting last night and spent several hours with the Philips and Bozaks. An almost perfectly balanced sound. Sad to see you missed on the preamp and by so little.
10-17-2003, 10:23 AM
brian,looks like im gonna get the 185/386 combo.im jst waiting for the shipping charges.as far as the 7871 goes i emailed the seller for a shipping qoute and he told me 89.00 euro so i wont be bidding.heres a photo of the tuner /integraed.the amp is kinda cool as it has a mic input on it and you gotta love those meters.ill post a better pic once i get it.by the way when you find the preamp review let me know.
10-17-2003, 06:01 PM
Ya gotta tell me how these do. I've seen them on eBay every so often but have not gone after any. I'm partial to separates over receivers and if any good suspect I could roll out some of my receivers such as the Sony, RS, Pioneer, and JVC and go with these. I'm now tracking a 784 on eBay. If I shoot for it it will be 2 of them. Would love to find out why the tuner and integrated were offshore produced. Just makes no sense.
10-18-2003, 02:02 AM
ill definately let you know how it sounds.i myself like the separate route myself and dont have any receivers in my house.for that matter i dont even own any solidstate amps accept for a technics home theatre receiver thats collecting dust and not being used.i do however have a pioneer sx780 on its way so that'll be my first one.
im really hoping that the tuner turns out good as we have some good station around here.although i got a magnum dynalab ft11 and various other tuners im always looking to try something else.
i saw the 784 too and have on my tracking list .are you serious about it?if so i wont bid on it.theres also a 796 i dont have this one listed as far as output rating ,or anything else do you?finally i also found a Philips AH-7851 this is the one im gonna go after .i love the look of it.
by the way i emailed the guy on aa who picked up a pa1000b and hes gonna be getting a manual or something like that and email me it once he recieves it .ill pass it onto you once i get it.
10-18-2003, 09:37 AM
I confirmed with Tusk747 that it is a Lab Series and everything functions. It is listed int he Orions as 45 watts/channel. After I communicated with Tusk I realized he only ships to US so will not be bidding. Also will be passing on the 784 for now. Wifey told me this morniong that the Volvo will be needing winter tires this year per the garage. Also, want to have the Sherwood serviced and with tax season around the corner budgets going to get blown on software and research matrial renewals. Funney, I'm not a lover of the black faceplates (? a Mc owner of 30 years) but the back faceplates on these look better than the silver. The lights are off white and seems to just look better offset with black.
10-19-2003, 11:17 AM
Did you get the preamp review. The file was rather large and my internet connection has been running slow to dead.
10-19-2003, 10:55 PM
brian i agree too they look fantastic with the black and the white meters.
i too emailed tusk and converesed with him and was willing to ship to canada.too bad i just got back from out of town i could have told you.oh well mabe he'll relist it.i myself am only interested in the AH-7851 right now though.i too have to keep the spending down a bit for awhile.although ive been known to say that more thance once!!!
congrats on the mac gear,ive alwaysw wanted to play around with it but never had the finances until recently and bought a mc30 which should be arriving any day now.im just wondering what are your thoughts on them.i have pretty efficient speakers so there should be no problem driving them.ive heard of people using el34's and that the power supply can handle it .have you any thoughts on this?the reason i ask is i have apr of nos gec kt77's that i thought of using if there was no harm involved.if so ill just stick with 6l6gc .
10-22-2003, 09:01 PM
The seller did not get any bites on the 784 since his opening bid was higher than the price I paid for the 785. I emailed him to see if we could come to an arrangement. I guess I could use it in the office.
10-23-2003, 01:39 AM
good luck with the 784 hopefully you can work something out with the seller.
it seems some of the philips gear is showing up on ebay as i came across a 572philips 572 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3054662362&category=14974&rd=1)
the price seems to be a bit high considering what the other one went for last week but this ones silver.
im still gonna go after the 7851 but it looks like someone else interested in it too.thanks again for the 2 preamp reviews.by the way could you send me a good pic of your philips setup if you dont mind.
10-23-2003, 06:32 PM
I need to get a digital camera some day. I looked at the 572 and sound clean. COnsidering the # of black face vs silver faced units that go through eBay and I've seen and spoken to owners about, I suspect that the silver sets may be the scarcer of the 2 varieties and may be the source of the 400 sets made. I think the big advantage of the silver faced units is that they may be more matched than the black faced. Each of mine have a slightly diferent tinge to the faceplate and up close you can see a difference. Step just a foot or so back and it disappears. Possibly the faceplates were outsource to different makers. I do wich thay had made the passive switches with a silver base for the units. The black while blending in with the blackfaceplactes nicely detracts with the silver faceplate imho. While somewhat on the higher end of the price range, it looks interesting. Hmmm If I have a black set - doesn;t that mean I have to have a silver set?
Gook luck with the receiver. I'm waiting for mine to come in. If you get it and decide you'd rather have the silver version, I'll do a swap with you.
10-24-2003, 12:52 PM
brian,ill keep that in mind i f i win the 7851.the 7871 that was overseas only went for $35us.i almost went for but the shipping costs scared me away.by the time it got here it would have cost about $175 cdn.
as far as the 572 goes ill watch the auction and if it doesnt go perhaps ill email the seller and make a offfer.by the way did you strike a deal for the784 yet?
well i have to go listen to my mc30 that came in the mail this morning.
10-27-2003, 04:00 PM
I can't believe the final price for the 7851. More than 3x the price I just paid for the 785. Either I got 1 hell of a deal or I don't know what. I spoke with someone who has a 7831 and he says if has one of the best presentations he's ever heard. He had it looked over by his tech who apparently was very impressed with the build quality. Now, I'm getting a bit excited about the receiver which I had really just bid on as an addition to the Philips stack. If it is as good as he says, I may push oout my stack of receivers and just go with these. He's currently auditioning a 673 tuner and that's why we conversed.
10-28-2003, 01:54 AM
if you take a look at the bid history youll see that i pushed the bidding up otherwise it would have got only $50 still twice what you paid though.i really wanted it but my computer decided to reboot towards the end and i couldnt place another bid.oh well thats life.amazingly the 7871 in denmark went for $35 us .
i just got word today my 386/185 is going to be mailed out tuesday.also my pioneer sx780 is at the post office and to top it off im still in the process of evalutating my mcintosh mc30.i might have to take time off work to try it all out(haha).
i hope to eventually get a 673 i would love to have a tuner with great am capabilities along with the fm.by the way i m gonna pick up a philips tape deck that was previously on auction to add to my collection i forget the model number but it goes with the hi fi labs series.let me know how the receiver sounds once you get it
10-28-2003, 07:33 AM
Will do. I think I'm about to find out how repairable these things are. Last night I turned on the system and got sound out of only 1 channel the right channel was dead - no even meter movement. Swapped the cables, still same side dead. No good for the power amp. Finally pulled the jumpers on the H-K 630 that's connected to the Advents and ran a set of cables from the preamp to the H-K power amp. Power to both channels. The power amp has an issue. Left the H-K hooked up and listened with the Philips front end. Anyone with the receiver who has been talking of using the front end - the power amp section is absolutely beautiful. It walks that thin line between what I love and dislike wonderfully. Open, smooth, high resolution without being thin or dry. The H-K receiver while being one of the best sounding receivers I've heard still lacked that added something to cross it over from excellent mid-fi (please no flames). I looked at my notes from previous listening of the Advents with other equipment and the 630 power amp/Philips may be the best combo yet I've heard for them. In several observations it bettered my impressions using the Mc. Now I'm thinking about the A402 which I understand is the amp section of the H-K. Also, the Philips preamp which I've had some reservations about absolutely shone. It was made for the H-K amp.
The receiver probably will not be here for several weeks due to check clearing time. Will update when I get it. Sorry to hear of you loss on the receiver. There will be another.
10-28-2003, 09:55 AM
heres a pic of the tape deck.im also sorry to hear about your amp hopefully its not too serious....
11-03-2003, 09:34 AM
My receeiver is in transit. Hopefully, it will arrive b/f the weekend so I have something to play with. With customs, the border, etc. will be interesting to see how long it takes. I'll be out of town from the 15th to the 21st so don't want it delayed too long.
11-03-2003, 09:49 AM
hi brian,hopefully it is too .ive been thinking bout the ah6731 on ebay and take the plunge and bid on it .who knows i might actually win it?then that would end my search and i could concetrate on other things.
11-30-2003, 09:40 PM
Just got the 796 on eBay for $9.99. Per seller the center tune meter not on center but everything else 100%. Hopefully only needs to be screw adjusted. That make my 3rd Philips Lab Series receiver. This is the 2nd generation while the other 2 are 1st generation. Hopefully not big negative diffeences in circuit design. I've been playing the 785 on my Advents for a time and sound is noce but not entralling. The H-K 630 is a better match. Replaced the Advents with my Klipsch Heresy II (4 ohm version - seems scarce). The H-K does really well with the Kipsch but the pair exhibits the problem the the Heresys are somewhat known for and that is the mid to squawker crossover and somewhat hot high end. These issues tend not to be exhibited with tubes. I was thinking of opening the speakers and resetting the squawker 3db down on the crossover. With the 785, I've found nirvana with the Heresy for a nice listening system. Problems exhibited by the H-K/Heresy system not exhibited. The sound is almost what I remember the Fisher 500-C being with them but better in the bass. Presents a smooth tube sound with not hint of shrillness or hardness on top end. Sibilence on female vocals well within the range of my main system. Massed strings aren't steely, don;t sound like separate instruments just playing together ( a BIG problem I've had with these speakers), instead are playing in concert with each other but don't blur and get lost. Triangle pretty reasonably close. I knew if I kept these speakers, eventually I'd find a set of electronics that did not require the Mc system of other separates. I actually like the sound better than when I was using the Philips separates on the speakers. Suspect the low power level distortion on the receiver may be lower b/c lower powered amp. Tuner seems to have steep quieting slope and is quieter on local stations than the H-K, actually reaching into blackness with the dipole. The receiver has a turn on thump. When I get the 796 in and see what it neds, I'll get both worked on together. Now I need to figure out where to put the Klipsch and 785 as a setup. I suspect I'll be putting the 4506 reel to reel with this system. Also, where to put the Advent/H-K. Now to look out for the xx7 or xx71 receiver which will give me all but the xx3 or xx31 bottom of the line which I won't chase considering the prices I've paid for the others.
Did you ever get the 673 tuner compared to the 185? and results? How does the integrated amp sound. I may start to search for a set next.
12-02-2003, 10:16 AM
hi brian,congrats on the 796. the collection seems to be growing quite rapidly.im still waiting on my 7841.as far as the integrated(386) goes im very impressed with it.the tight low end coupled with a smooth midrange almost made me forget it was a solid state amp. get one if you have a chance i dont think youll be disappointed. as far as the 185/673 comparisions go from initial analysis it has better low end response than the 185 and a more laid back soundstage as opposed to the more in your face that the 185 exhibits.it also does an amazing job on vocals and accoustic guitar.the 185 doesnt have the sensistivity that the 673 has but it picks up almost all the same stations on the fm band at least when hooked up to the same antenna.i will hopefully be able to get a better idea of a/b ing them with a few other tuners over the holidays .good luck with finding the 7871 it would be on par with the power rating of my 386.
12-10-2003, 02:12 PM
hey brian check this out.this is probally more rarer than any of the preamps recievers etc...
chrisphilips vinyl (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2580620152&ssPageName=ADME:B:BN:US:1)
12-10-2003, 08:34 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Gotta have it to add to the other sales literature but ya bid on it. What to do? Okay, solution - ship me gratus the 386/185 and I'll not bid against you. OTOH, I can't let it go. Oh, why did you tell me about it? Frustration, indecision, confusion, stress, nail biting - what to do. It would require me to finally get a late production GA212. LAst time this came up I was willing to spend more on the literature then the equipment.
12-11-2003, 03:10 AM
ive gotta better idea send me your 572 and ill let you outbid me on the philips vinyl.sound good?
speaking of 572's the one on ebay with the hum problem has been dropped to $75 for an opening bid .if it doesnt go ill probally email him to see if i can work something out as i would like to have one .
you mentioned the ga212.is it a decent table?i was thinking of getting something from philips until i can get a tonearm and cartridge for my garrard 301.
your right literature can get pretty expensive and i try to get manuals,schematics,photofacts for all my equiptment whenever i can find it.
by the way my 7481 came in the mail the other day and landed up costing me another $41cdn because the guy declared a value of $200us.i suppose good if it got destroyed but i nearly sh-t when i heard that.oh well its my fault as i forgot to tell him to declare the value of the auction.its in excellent condition and was probally hardly used.the only problem with it was the dial lights were out when i turned it on. turns out the board that holds the lights just needed tightning.other than that its working fine.
one more thing did you get your amp checked out yet?
12-11-2003, 10:09 AM
Regarding that Philips LP, it sounds like a vintage/vinyl nutter's wet dream :tongue:
As one myself, and knowing Philips' reputation for some of the best sounding LP releases, it should be absolutely gorgeous sounding. *And* you can pant and drool over the "centrefold" pics at the same time :rolleyes:
For the Philips completist out there, I was at a house sale the other day and spotted a boxed Philips 400 phono cartridge sitting amongst the debris, with $38 writ large on it. I picked it up and before I could open my mouth the lady running the show said ooh I have no idea what that is - just take it (!)
So off I went with a bunch of great LPs and a free phono cart, which is complete with manual and mounting hardware, though obviously used. I tried it next day and it actually sounds not bad at all; I may use it in a secondary TT when I get that set up.
12-11-2003, 01:39 PM
since im in th process of looking for a tonearm and cartridge for my garrard 301 id just have to drool over the literature.hopefully i win the auction.for the most part i was concerned about just having it as part of my philips collection.speaking of philips 400 phono carts there was a philips 212 that just ended on ebay with one it it that had supposidly less than 1hr on it but didnt sell.im in contact with the seller and trying to work out something for the turntable.then at least i can listen to the album(if i win it) .
12-11-2003, 02:14 PM
Good luck on getting the 212, I've heard it's a great table. However, you may want to hop on over to the Audio Asylum's Vinyl board to check out cartridges that are best suited to that particular TT. With everything properly set up, LP's such as the Philips one will sound incredible.
12-11-2003, 05:44 PM
I'll give u an option on a 572 if I should get 1. Will that do? Have only gotten the 5721 so far. OhOh, I see a bidding war coming up. How much do you want it??
The 212 is a very very good table. AR should have come out it as a replacement or upgrade. Variable speed, floating suspension, gimble arm with low mass and static sliding weight. Table rang but that is not without an easy mod. On a stable surface, it competed easily with most of the tables and was one of the final nails in the Empire table coffin according to Empire. Empire had survived the likes of Thorens, seen Garrard and Dual go to changers, AR was for the geeks, students and music majors - all broke. BIC had been a worry but had destroyed itself. The 212 was to turntables as Advent was to speakers - a new standard and well equal to anything costing FAR more.
Today, still should be a great deal provided in good operating condition. The tonearm was the only thing near the pricerange that an ADC XLM could track in.
As for the 400 cartridge, know nothing about it. A great cartridge for the arm back then was the B&O SP-12 (damn wish I could find these today nos), the XLM, the earlier ADC 25 (known as a brick) which had IMHO 1 of the best sounds of anything out there well after its demise, and Micro-Acoustics.
Would it replace my Thorens or even the Empire 598III? I'd not sell either to get the 212 and that's the problem - wifey is beginning to get suspicious that I'm becoming addicted - wait till she has Canada Poste drop 2 receivers on the doorstep.:uzi: :uzi:
12-11-2003, 09:49 PM
All this talk of philips.....I gotta post some pics of this baby.
Picked it up at a ard sale. Table was adjusted my my tech and it plays great now. I don't use it much but hate to part with it, kinda like my 5781 power amp.
has 78,45,33 and 16 speeds, scratch, rumble, 2 inputs and 2 speaker outs. Other than a few minor chips it's excellent.
12-11-2003, 09:52 PM
opened up, oh, it's a stacker too!!
12-11-2003, 10:52 PM
Neat looking unit. Think there was one of these on eBay not too long ago. Does it have a tuner? Philips version of a KLH.
12-11-2003, 11:26 PM
Dang I remember that thing! A mate of mine in high school had one, but was running a couple of speaker cones without cabinets - didn't seem to bother him that it sounded like a wet fart. Then again, he listened to Kiss and, uh, disco mostly. Kinda like... Krisco.
He was also enamoured of such cultural luminaries as Leif Garrison and Rick Springfield. That poor turntable was so badly abused, I tell ya.
'Scuse me while my current turntable gently weeps... :pity:
12-12-2003, 03:01 AM
thats sure one cool looking piece.id even pick one up if i ever found one.
brian,thanks for the offer but i really want that philips vinyl.thanks for the info on the ga212.i guess ill be finding out soon what one sounds like as i just struck a deal for one today for $75us. it includes the original box
- The original Philips Super M 400 cartridge (less than 1 hour of use)
- A Spare Cartridge Support mounting,
- A Grado FT+ cartridge,
- The special tool to remove the stylus on the Grado cartridge,
- A jig to ensure any new cartridge is properly installed and its stylus in the correct position,
- A copy of the User Manual, service manual
- A 45 rpm record adaptor.
it also works perfect and is suppose to be in pristine conditon.the best part is the guys in quebec so there'll be no extra charges at the door when it comes .ill also have it within 3 days after he gets the money.
2 more recievers on the way?looks like you have the market cornered there .i only have the one.you might also consider getting both versions of each one but then the wife might call the men with the little white coats.lol
if you want once i get it i can send you a copy of the service manual and owners manual in case you ever pick one up. take care,
12-12-2003, 09:59 PM
Get an example of each model!? - you want to make my wife a voluntary widow. don't you?
784 / 7841 - will have
785 / 7851 - have
786 / 7861
787 / 7871
794 / 7941
795 / 7951
796 / 7961 - will have
797 / 7971
Orion shows the production dates for both the 78xx and 79xx series to be the same. 1977-1981 - seems strange. Also only seen 1 of the 7x7(1) up for sale and that was Europe.
I think these are Lab Series but have not been able to confirm. Have not seen either come up on eBay. Does anyone have one or know of them?
I am negotiating for a 4504 reel to reel to go with the 4506 reel to reel. If I get it, I may move the 4506 over and use it as ap preamp for the H-K 630 since it has a better preamp and then feed the H-K tuner into the 4506 preamp and the preamp output to the power amp of the 630. The preamp of the 4506 while not as good as the 572, does very well and better then the H-K, or at least the 1 that I have.
The table sounds great. The jig is a really rare find. Gotta mull over the record - it is eating me up trying to not bid on it.
12-14-2003, 12:03 PM
seriously though at the prices youve been picking them up for i think shipping is the real killer.finding the 7871 though could be fun.i almost bid on the one in europe but the shipping qoute scared me off.
you had to go mention the reel to reels now didnt you.here i was thinking great i have a complete philips setup with the turntable on the way but now i have to get the reel to reel since i also use a reel to reel.im currently using a teac 2300sx and it works flawlessly.once i get the turntable ill finally start transferring some vinyl to tape.(just have to find a good source for tape)
are the philips reliable and good sounding? i know they had a system called dynamic noise limiter as opposed to the dolby noise reduction.is it better or basically the same?
as far as the 901 and 903 go i came across one on ebay germany.its a all in one so i question the hi fi labs designation but who knows.see pic.anyways good luck with the 4504 if you get it.oh ya any thoughts on any of their speakers just in case i run into some and really want to make the system complete.
12-14-2003, 08:25 PM
The Orion lists the 903 at 125 watts. Can't imagine a compact with that power. The 4504/4506 are a mechanically controlled unit and not up to a Revox, Tandberg, etc. More in line with the low end Sony transports. These were supposed have been beefed up to be more competitive with Revox, etc. but too much plastic and controls feel too flimsy. Could not see these in a recording studio. The guy who runs the MFB site has something like 1/2 dozen sitting in his basement with problems. Mine has an end of tape stop issue and need to have the bias set. I think if I were seriously into reel to reel as I was when I had my Revox, I'd have a second deck. I have the 06 with the preamp which is very decent and for what I paid for the unit, the preamp alone was worth the price - though I don't see using it. The DNR is not like Dolby in that it is not an active device for recording but is designed to increase the dynamics of playback and was not designed to reduce the noise threshold as was Dolby. Without the biasing, mine sounds very good but, I don't think after being rebiased, it still will knock off an A-77 in fighting trim or a Sony 455. The 2300 transport is I think one of the nicest Japanese transports in terms of smooth operations but, the electronics weren't my cup f tea. I used to sub Crown record/playback amps with the 2300 as an alternative to a Crown which at best is not very beautiful sitting in a living room. The sound through a set of phones does come from the Philips family and that is a plus. The 4506 though is 1 impressive looking very large deck.
12-17-2003, 10:08 AM
hi brian ,thanks for the suggestions on the arms ill check some of them out.
i recieved the philips 212 yesterday and its beutiful the guy i got it from bought it new and it was very well taken care of .turns out though the cover recieved a crack in it during shipping and now we have to file a claim with canada post.other than that its in excellant condition no scratches etc anywhere.
three systems hold on a minute !! i told you only 2.ya ok tell the wife i made you do it ill just send a picture of my ammased collection of gear and then she probally wouldnt feel too bad about you collecting "a few receivers" anways gotta go clear a spot for the 212.i think ill hook up the 386 and take out the fairchild and mac for the time being.ill keep you posted.
12-17-2003, 11:21 AM
Those plexiglas covers can usually be repaired using acetone in a very fine dispenser. Just let it run into the crack and it will weld the two sides together. You may get recompense from CP but I doubt that they can find you a new cover. For dispensers check with any dollhouse shop, they have nylon bottles with a metal head that has a very fine nozzle, I use one when building dollhouse furniture so as to not get glue on the surfaces I plan to stain.
12-17-2003, 11:35 AM
thanks for the tip ill try it.
im just a little p' offed about it as it was packed in the original box labled with proper fragile label and it still managed to get damaged. ill probally take the claim money and just buy another 212 off ebay for just the cover and have a spare 212 for parts.
12-19-2003, 10:08 PM
Congrats on the win. I was biting my tongue and tied my fingers and hands so not to bid on it.
Since I was such a good boy, is it possible to convince you to scan the inside that has the equipment and forward it to me. At least I'll have that and be satisfied the original went to an equally Philips dedicated fan (or at least 1 in the making).
12-20-2003, 02:37 AM
hi brian i appreciate that very much,i wasnt too worried about you as genarally eveyone on this board is trustworthy.i was worried about the others.just for curiosity sakes what would have been your max bid?before i went to work i set my final max bid to $101.call me crazy but im hooked.speaking of not hitting buttons i had the same problem with a fairchild 255a for a bin of $400.
as far as scanning the gatefold and literature for you its the least i can do .ill even go and photocopy it for you just pm me your address and ill send it out to you as soon as i get it .
by the way have your packages arrived yet?
12-20-2003, 10:59 AM
I think I found someone on the board crazier then I. On the brochures I went to $45 for each one that I got to make sure I'd not be beat. So I suspect had I decided to go head to head it would have been a bit more but in the end, you'd have taken it since I could buy 10 Philips receivers for your max bid. I'll always feel incomplete knowing of this jewel.
12-20-2003, 11:20 AM
Here is a pic of my Philips 541 active speakers. They are still going strong and sound amazingly well for their size.
12-20-2003, 02:11 PM
Hans Scheike,thats one thing i dont have yet is a set of philips speakers.id like to find some locally to try out but as for having to ship speakers the cost would probally outweigh the purchase price thats why i dont have any yet.
brian, i too would buy 10 recievers at that price .speaking of brochures and the like do you have a service manual for the 673?i already have the owners manual downloaded but a copy of the service manual would be handy to have.
as far as the record goes there are a few places still left here that deal in vinyl and ill check them out for you to see if by chance they might have a copy.wish me luck.
12-20-2003, 03:28 PM
Yup, agree with you about the weight, radioactive. But if you ever get the oportunity to buy the 545's in this series for a decent price, you should grab it. The small ones I own sound great but those big suckers are truly insane though they are pure full range in the freq. response.
Unfortunately these are both rare and expensive :(
Found some links for those of you interested in these speakers and this technique.
This guy is strange, he first disconnects the MFB in one of the woofers, then he complains about the sound of the speakers :rolleyes:
12-20-2003, 03:40 PM
Yes, I have the manual. Can you receive a large file via email?
The MFB speakers were from an era where speaker manufacuters tried to match amps to drivers such as the Powered Advents (anyone got a set of these), Proton (got 3 of these each needing repair). and the big boys from A/D/S. I always like the sound of the Philips midrange driver and tweeter from that era and the MFBs. The speakers were very good and excellent bookshelf speakers. With today's HT, these make more snse than even when they were made.
12-20-2003, 03:49 PM
by all means brian send it . thanks,
12-23-2003, 10:31 AM
I'll get it to you probably tonight. Desk is a mess and need to find the CD.
Got the 796 in last night and have these comments;
1) Chip Russell, the seller - EXCELLLENT - I mean REALLY EXCELLENT packer. THough he only single boxed the unit, the box was constructed like the 1 I have from ARC for the D76. The packing was first rate, polybagged, good foam around it. To top it all off, though I've not confirmed it, he then used the foam in a can to make sure NOTHING would shift. The unit was literally sealed in the box and I had to break the foam to get to it. This puppy was not going anyplace. UNit was exactly as described and we discussed. THe volume control at low setting has a small amount of static, the speaker switch likewise (same as on my 7851). Very little dust seen through the vent, faceplate, lettering all very good and only 2 small veneer chips on the top at the edge where the vent intersects.
2) Physically, this unit is some 3" wider than the 7851. Theought the vent, I can see the power transformer which looks like something lifted from a tube amp rather than what was being used typically in the 80s. The unit must have been designed to run cool on the outputs since they are covered with a plastic cap since they are mounted on the outside of the unit similar to early Scotts such as the 342. The back plate is the heartsink rather than using the fin arrangement of the 7851. It has a set of input selector lights like the H-K 630, that the 7851 does not hae. This may be a difference between the 78xx and 79xx series besides the ridge on the facia of the 79xx series, lacking on the 78xx series. The FM scale is LONG, much more so than anything else in my receiver collection.
3) Sound is very similar to the 7851 on the Klipsch Heresy II with an exception being at least initially through the FM, that the bass is more evident and extended without detracting from the other pluses I've mentioned about the 7851 Klipsch combo. Over the holidays, I'll sub the Advents and see what happens
The receiver cost $10 plus shipping and though 45 watts, suspect Philips was just a bit conservative but, have not pushed it to see what my little RS 500 meter shows.
12-23-2003, 07:10 PM
glad to hear this one was packed a little better than the last one you received.still waitng for the 784?theres a 7851 on ebay if you want to go with your 785 you did say one of each didnt you wait never mind that was me.i still might go for the 572 since i dont think itll go that high with the hum problem.im still deciding!! with all this talk about the rs power meters i might get mine out and do some measuring of my different amps.
im in no rush for the service manual so dont rush it.just send it whenever you have the time.
12-23-2003, 09:50 PM
The 2nd preamp did not meet reserve. I found the CD but need your email. Still waiting for the 7841. Another 785(x), I'm beginnning to get piles of receivers and my, the guy who has always been a separates guy. At this rate I'm going to need more speakers. Actually looking a set of new Belles a dealer wants to sell at cost since no one wants them - damn too many things to buy and not enough room.
12-23-2003, 09:55 PM
you have a pm.
12-23-2003, 10:02 PM
It is on the way to you as we speak. $44 for the 7851; hey my average is something like $15 plus postage. Am I driving the market price up by trying to buy too many?
12-23-2003, 10:09 PM
ya youve seem to be getting the good prices on them. i think you better slow down and let me grab a few more i have to catch up. as for the prices go theyre not to bad yet.i wonder when a7871 will show up?even a 7861 would be nice im not too greedy!!!
12-23-2003, 10:58 PM
If a 787/7871/797/7971 hits the auction block, we are both going to be going for it. These are going to be hard finds I suspect since they were only 60 watts and $700. At this point I gotta believe based on the improvement from the 785 to the 796 these maybe in the sound quality range of the Marantz 18/19 as they related to everything else when they were in production.
12-23-2003, 11:11 PM
kinda makes me think i should have gone after the one in europe7871 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053307688&category=3279&rd=1)
notice it has the ansc so i wonder if the tuner section was on par with the 673. id be interesting to get one .on par with the marantz 18/19? your driving the price up you know that dont you ssssh.lol
as far as both going for it .it'd depend when it came up.since i have some funds coming to me from various sales id go for one now. was there not a 80w receiver or was it just a 80w integrated they made?
12-23-2003, 11:46 PM
I suspect it may be since both it and the 673 were US designed and produced while the 185 was produced and maybe even designed overseas. Time to go hook up the Advents and play.
12-26-2003, 06:05 PM
I have a parts AH-7841, if anyone needs knobs, etc. I bought one when I was 16 or 17, it passed from me to my younger brother to our fathers garage/shop, finally died & I have never been able to find a schematic. I recently bought a second one off e-bay that turned up dead due to shipping damage. If anyone has a manual or schematic they want to share...
12-28-2003, 01:24 AM
Did you buy it from a Cathy or John Legate?
02-04-2004, 03:53 PM
GOT IT! Just scored the AH797 receiver. It is the largest of the series though only 60 watts. Hope it is in the same condition as the 796 I awhile ago. This gives me 1 example from the 1st series and 2 from the 2nd series. Am hoping the big difference between it and the 796 is in the tuner as opposed to the amp since it is only 15 more watts.
02-04-2004, 05:00 PM
It may just be in the flexibility of the preamp section's controls?
I hope it arrives in pristine condition.
02-05-2004, 03:07 AM
way to go brian,
now why cant i get the philips gear at the prices you pay :) im glad you got it for under the $50 that it was even listed for in the previous auction.it could have cost you more though if the other bidder in the last minute had a little more of a high bid.im currently watching the 7851 to see what it goes for but will not be bidding as ive got to much deals in progress including the grandaddy of the fairchild amps a 275 and hopefully soon a mcintosh mx110.couple this with getting my mc30 up and running,there really is not much left in the wallet for anymore philips gear .in the meantime ill have to settle with what ive got for now......
02-05-2004, 12:41 PM
Not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling for the seller. Sent email describing the preferred packing (double boxing) and his reply was that I should have contacted him before if I wanted to discuss packaging. Never had that type of response and usually only comment is that it may cost more to do but sine there was no flat packing fee, it was net an issue, then or now.
I know the feeling. I started going through stuff last night. Need to get rid of the following:
Radio Shack STA2250
Dyna SCA35 and FM-3
Will leave me with the Mc system, Philips system 3 Philips reveivers and the Sherwood system.
02-05-2004, 01:01 PM
I may be interested in a couple of those Knobs. Are they black or silver ?
02-05-2004, 01:19 PM
grumpy,they would be black as the 1 in 7841 designates it as the black version of the 784 which is silver.
if grumpy doesnt need the bass,treble, or balance knobs id be interested in just one of those if he needs them all well he beat me to them.send me a pm if he doesnt i shure could use one.
02-05-2004, 05:48 PM
Can you guys e-mail me me off line? I do have the knobs, but I sure could use a schematic.