Sadness over The Day...

[Sandy G]

...Not just at the horror in Blacksburg.This may not seem worth mentioning, but it has me most upset. My loving sister got a Rottweiler, a 3-yr-old 175 lb neutered male, a strapping specimen of the breed a couple of months ago. There were problems w/him from the start, he snapped at her coming home. But we attributed this to the fact the dog was in unfamiliar surroundings, & unfamiliar people. Well, he did pretty good, I thought. I made friends w/him, thought he was a GORGEOUS dog. My sister got peeved though when I'd fool w/him. Well, last week, she went to a Horse Show in Lexington, VA, & left Bear in my dad's care. The dog was sitting on my dad's lap, my dad got up, the dog nailed my dad on his hand. Didn't even break the skin, but for that, my sister decided to put him down, & it was done today. The dog had NEVER shown any aggression whatsoever to me, & Mary Lou had kept him put up in a stall in her horse barn the entire time he was here, letting him out only an hour or so at a time. I don't think the dog ever got a fair chance,he didn't ask for any of this, but in my family, I'm ALWAYS wrong, & whatever my sister says is gospel. I didn't even get to tell him good-bye & that I loved him. Again, this pales in comparison to the tragedy in Blacksburg, but this was personal to me, & I think it's a fairly well-known secret I'm a sucker when it comes to critters...

[alexkerhead]

Sandy, I am sorry to hear that. :(

Some people just don't get it. :no:

[Tapehead47]

So sad.

Rick

[mulester7]

...Not just at the horror in Blacksburg.This may not seem worth mentioning, but it has me most upset. My loving sister got a Rottweiler, a 3-yr-old 175 lb neutered male, a strapping specimen of the breed a couple of months ago. There were problems w/him from the start, he snapped at her coming home. But we attributed this to the fact the dog was in unfamiliar surroundings, & unfamiliar people. Well, he did pretty good, I thought. I made friends w/him, thought he was a GORGEOUS dog. My sister got peeved though when I'd fool w/him. Well, last week, she went to a Horse Show in Lexington, VA, & left Bear in my dad's care. The dog was sitting on my dad's lap, my dad got up, the dog nailed my dad on his hand. Didn't even break the skin, but for that, my sister decided to put him down, & it was done today. The dog had NEVER shown any aggression whatsoever to me, & Mary Lou had kept him put up in a stall in her horse barn the entire time he was here, letting him out only an hour or so at a time. I don't think the dog ever got a fair chance,he didn't ask for any of this, but in my family, I'm ALWAYS wrong, & whatever my sister says is gospel. I didn't even get to tell him good-bye & that I loved him. Again, this pales in comparison to the tragedy in Blacksburg, but this was personal to me, & I think it's a fairly well-known secret I'm a sucker when it comes to critters........Sandy, we both know that dog not breakin' the skin meant a lot....it sounds like the dog was asleep and got startled waking up in a place that wasn't home....but....not breakin' the skin showed his temperament....shoot, that dog liked Grandpa, he was up in his lap probably asleep....but, there's those who are going to do things their way no matter what is said....

[rulerboyz]

Sadly some owners are inclined to get trigger happy when a dog from a breed with a "marginal reputation" makes "the wrong move". Certainly there's a lot more wrong done to pets than the other way around.

[majorloser]

Sadly some owners are inclined to get trigger happy when a dog from a breed with a "marginal reputation" makes "the wrong move". Certainly there's a lot more wrong done to pets than the other way around.

It also can affect your home owners insurance. You can also be required to carry a huge liability rider on the dog. (At least here in Florida)

It is truly sad to lose a good animal but sometimes it better than the finacial burden.

[Manitoulin]

Sandy.

Sorry to read this. If you need to call, I am here, my friend.

[Arkay]

Very sad. That dog had feelings, a soul if you will. It behaved the way it did out of instinct and learning, and could have been taught to behave differently. It IS significant that skin was not broken; such a dog could go for the neck and kill if it wanted to, and it obviously didn't want to. It was trying to communicate something in its way, but --except for you-- people around it (as a different species) weren't listening properly.

I can understand if people have infants around and feel they need to get rid of a dog with "risky" behavior to protect the little ones, but even then they don't need to put the animal down - just send it to a new home. I can understand putting down a dog that is actually violent/aggressive and won't be taught otherwise.

But this? Very, very sad...:no: :tears:

[EchoWars]

I love animals...ALL animals...but I'm with your sister on this one.

[Sandy G]

I appreciate that Glenn, but there are ALWAYS options. I'd called the Rottie Rescue people, I think they would have come got him, but my sister was hell-bent on putting him down. I talked to the vet-John, whom I've mentioned her numerous times- & even HE said it was the thing to do. But I still can't help feeling we somehow "failed" the dog. Had the nicest call from Manitoulin over this unpleasantness. Joe, you are truly a SAINT !!!

[Manitoulin]

I appreciate that Glenn, but there are ALWAYS options. I'd called the Rottie Rescue people, I think they would have come got him, but my sister was hell-bent on putting him down. I talked to the vet-John, whom I've mentioned her numerous times- & even HE said it was the thing to do. But I still can't help feeling we somehow "failed" the dog. Had the nicest call from Manitoulin over this unpleasantness. Joe, you are truly a SAINT !!!

My pleasure.

Sandy, I am always here for you.

[RussinOhio]

I'm sorry about your dog Sandy. I think some dogs....Rottweilers in particular...show loyalty & affection ONLY to their masters. It is no wonder Rots, Shepards & Dobies have been chosen for years as guard dogs. I was once attacked by a Rot some 20 years ago and while I was not really hurt I was scared wit-less as the huge dog had me up against the wall with his paws on my chest. This animal belonged to a neighbor freind and he felt terrible that his dog had me against the wall.....I had no hard feelings toward him OR the dog...in the dogs mind he was only protecting his master.Just one of those things and it was only your post that reminded me of it. Can't remember if it was male or female but the dog was positively HUGE! You might think I'm putting down Rots...not at all! They are wonderful, as are all dogs.

I do truly believe that Rottweilers are a fine line between beloved pet and home defense weapon:thmbsp:


They have my respect and I love them dearly.


**** "Attacked" was the wrong word to use! "confronted" is more appropriate....my bad!

Russ

[EchoWars]

Doesn't mean I don't feel for you...sorry buddy!

[pahtcenter77]

Sandy-
My wife and I had a cocker spaniel for 6 years before our son was born. We could tell he was upset with with the new "addition", but it was manageable. However, when the daughter was born 2 years later, things got dicey. Luckily for us, some friends took him from Ca. to Washington to live out the rest of his days without little children. It tore us up to do it, but we had to. But, that was in the 80s. Times have changed.

Your sister has already seen the tendency twice, and in some circumstance, could be held responsible if she lets the dog go somewhere and it does damage to someone. As much as it hurt to let ours go, I could not have lived with myself if he had ever disfigured a little child due to my negligence. I really feel your pain, but it's probably for the best.

Some dogs just aren't meant to be pets. Hopefully he's in a better place.

[wajobu]

A somber thread this is--Sandy I feel for you. I'm sorry this happened, and you are correct that there are options. Arkay also raises a good point having hung around a big galloot of an Alaskan malamute--the size of a bear, for a number of years...one has to learn to read the signals. I also appreciate that despite differing points of view...we still have an open discussion.

I have been an avid reader of the works of Barry Lopez for many years--nature writer, memoirist, activist, etc. His books are very memorable to me (like Arctic Dreams, and About This Life). I learned a great deal about canine behavior from reading his book Of Wolves and Men...reading the signs of aggression and submission, etc.

Again, sorry Sandy...I know that this is difficult.

[Urizen]

Bummer.

Sorry to hear about that, Sandy.

[MarkAnderson]

Jeez, Sandy. That blows.

I've known several Chihuahua's through various friends/relatives, and they're way more vicious than any Rottweiler I've ever met.

Fact is, a buddy of mine has a dog that's s'posedly half Rottweiler, half Chow, and it's the sweetest dog I've known (next to Smudge and Bullet). Chubby (Chubs, Chubbers, Chubster...), as he is affectionately known, gnaws the fleas off the dozen or so cats they've got hangin' around. He chases 'em around the yard and terrorizes 'em :D , but he looks after them. I'm not too sure I've ever heard the ol' boy even bark.

Sorry, man.

[Twenty20Man]

I'm Sorry Sandy, a very tough thing to deal with.

my best
Tom

[MarkAnderson]

BTW, any of you who've never gotten into it with a Chihuahua (prefferably one that likes you), you don't know what you're missing. I ain't talkin' about no little pee-boy miniature Chihuahua neither. I'm talkin' about a 10-12 pounder - fat, graying, old, and ornery. Really ornery. I wrestle with such a dog. Sometimes it hurts, but it sure is fun. :D

[Negotiableterms]

Sorry, Sandy.

[Donkey!]

I could never do that. I still look for my pooch to be right there by the door when I come in. :tears:

[RichPA]

Sorry to hear about that, Sandy.

[SuiDog]

SO sorry this happened, Sandy. 14 years and 4 litters of Rottweilers and the same #'s with pit Bulldogs prior to that, I feel your pain. Never lost one that way, though. Damn! :thumbsdn:
All the best in dealing with the naysayers.

[fotno]

I am so sorry Sandy... For the dog and for you. I can see both perspectives, in that I've had great dogs that started out as "borderline", and I've had to supervise the euthanasia of several that were truly dangerous. I'm kinda old-school when it comes to dogs biting humans. It's the ultimate taboo for a dog, and unless the circumstances are extraordinary (defending its family, or in real fear of it's own life) I won't allow for it. Having said that, this situation is IMO a really tough call.

Like I say, I wasn't there, but it sounds like the second offense was a startled response that the dog put the brakes on at the last second. Which would explain why the skin wasn't broken. Seeing as he stopped himself when he realized that it was your Dad he had grabbed, then that seems to be a case of pretty good bite inhibition. The old folks didn't say - "Let sleeping dogs lie" for nothing! Of course in my family, I'M the one who's always wrong.

Once again, sorry Sandy.

[SPL db]

So sorry to hear of this Sandy... you're a lot like me in the fact that you
see good in creatures where others don't...

To me, it sounds like there was a good dog in there somewhere... I agree
with others that the dog did realize what it was doing, but by then it was
too late.

I'm here for you if ya need anything!

Scott

[merrylander]

Sandy, old friend, sorry about the dog, being locked in a horse stall all day may work with horses, it won't work with dogs.

[SuiDog]

Sandy, old friend, sorry about the dog, being locked in a horse stall all day may work with horses, it won't work with dogs. Yeah, somebody did mention "circumstances". As pet owners we take on the life responsibility of protecting our pets - per the dog whisperer also fwiw. An animal like this is a HUGE responsibility. Maybe impossible if it was raised by someone else. Who knows what the animal is thinking ? How was it treated ? Why did the original owner not want the dog after three years ? I've rescued pits and Rotts ... and some got sent to hell before there was a problem. As a breeder, it's even more of a responsibility.

Again, I'm sorry about the dog Sandy, just keeping things in perspective.

[Dynacophil]

The dog was sitting on my dad's lap, my dad got up, the dog nailed my dad on his hand. Didn't even break the skin, but for that, my sister decided to put him down, & it was done today. The dog had NEVER shown any aggression whatsoever to me, & Mary Lou had kept him put up in a stall in her horse barn the entire time he was here, letting him out only an hour or so at a time.

It may be - for a Dog as a Rottweiler is - a very tenderly hint to make him stay :) i mean, i sean a Rotti play with meter diameter 60Kg wooden cable drum as it was a ball - they are strong, especially neck and Jaw. If it didn't injure, it may have been as tender as it could be....
I think, that who owns a dog stronger then two man, must know that even the sunniest Rotti could hurt sometimes without wanting it... hope i could explain my intention in english...

i am pretty sensitive, because my niece one day with 17 came home with a Rotti-girl-baby, so cute... 6 month later no more cute, and not controllable by the girl... i told her before that she won't be able to handle the dog that was a large example as she is a smal example of a human. Additional to have a Dog like this in a city like Berlin, in a 1,5-Room appartment, beeing in education and having to leave the dog alone for 9 hours aday... I told her at least to be a little bit thoughtlessly.

with 8 months she had to give it away, to nice people living outside Berlin on the Countryside.. but, the complete action was stupid and only bad for the dog, which was very friendly, but horsing around with it could end with some bruises, scratches or hematomes....


:tears: Helge

[Sandy G]

The story I got was that the owner was a guy from California who got sent to Iraq, & sent Bear back to the kennel in Richmond where he originally came from. My sister saw him on the internet, a call was placed, a deal was struck, she & this other gal went to Richmond to get him. I DON'T know how the dog was treated in California, & the dog I assumed was confused-he was in California, gets put on a plane to Richmond, spends a couple of weeks there in a small run, then gets put in a car & driven to Tennessee & put in a stall. He doesn't know any of these people, he of course doesn't understand why or what is happening to him,he NEVER gets out of the pen in my sister's horse barn except to run around in the barn a little-I don't think he ever got to go outside again. I tried to show him a little compassion-only to get soundly bit by my sister, who was afraid he'd bond w/someone other than her. Even got jumped on when I fed him treats. Yeah, he WAS a dangerous dog-because of his size & power. But again, he never showed any aggression towards me. I tried to hug him & Mary Lou hit the ceiling-that would "set him off", I was admonished. DON'T make eye contact with him, THAT will set him off. He's growling at you-Watch out. (Rotties make a "grumbling" noise when they breathe-sounds like growling, but its not) The Rottie Rescue lady I talked to said the dog was prolly crying out for attention-and all he got was being cooped up in a stall, & in the end, a needle. This poor dog really didn't have a chance. But I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY appreciate all the comments both pro & con-its helped make this a bit easier. We shall go on.-Sandy

[Holst]

I truly can see both sides of this and yes, a dog like that can be dangerous. However what I notice most is that people expect animals to act according to standards set for people. Although humans are animals, non-human critters aren't human and have their own set of standards.
My personal view is that if the dog acted up, there was a trigger for that action. Yes, that trigger could be that the dog had gone bad. I could have had a sore spot that no one knew about that was accidentally touched, it could have been startled, we don't know, as they don't tell us.

[fotno]

Holst nailed it... Learning to understand as much as possible, what a non-human animal is trying to communicate is the most frustrating and at the same time, most rewarding part of living with them. I'm far from an expert on anything (especially dogs), but I'ved lived with them all my life, and I have picked up a thing or two.

It's really easy to misunderstand what a dog is trying to say. They can't speak in a language we understand, and even the friendly forms of physical communication they use are often misinterpreted as being threatening, or dangerous.

Dogs bite each other, subdue each other, and use their tails, ears and posture to relay an attitude or mood. Dogs often do things that humans think mean one thing, when they actually mean quite another.

I have seen dogs engaged in bloody fights, whose tails were wagging the entire time. Dogs dominating their owners by climbing up their chests, pawing at their faces, or barking (even biting) at passersby, whose owners thought the behaviors were; "Just the cutest thing!". Sadly, I've also seen confused or frightened dogs put to sleep because the folks who had to make the decision, misunderstood what the dog was trying to "say".

I depise over-regulation, but it is my opinion (that and a quarter might buy you a pack of gum), that prospective dog owners should have to commit to, and complete a practical dog owners course. Then be issued a license or permit to own one. They could learn about pack structure, the necessity of exercise and proper discipline. How to recognise problems, and correct for them. It'd be a pain, but it would save a lot of trouble later on, and give errant, abusive, or cruel owners not one leg to stand on if they hurt an animal, or allowed their animals to hurt someone else.

[Holst]

It's really easy to misunderstand what a dog is trying to say. They can't speak in a language we understand, and even the friendly forms of physical communication they use are often misinterpreted as being threatening, or dangerous.

Dogs bite each other, subdue each other, and use their tails, ears and posture to relay an attitude or mood. Dogs often do things that humans think mean one thing, when they actually mean quite another.


The is a movement going on in the horse world called natural horsemanship. Basically, do things the horses way, not the human way.

It works like this.

Never hit a horse, you only teach it to duck. If a horse acts up, make it back up, horse don't throw punches, they make the other horse back up. Don't place our human value system on an animal that has it own social order.

Sometimes I wonder why dogs, cat's and horses are so quick to partner up with humans. There seems to be so little in it for them.

[merrylander]

When we adopted Randi, the Shelty/Spitz mix we had for twelve years, the people at the pound came to the house to see where the dog was going to be. Randi had been turned in to the pound, was adopted once and turned back again because they said he was a compulsive wetter. Sure, if you scream at a dog he'll wet. I guess that one of his previous owners abused his wife as he would let no one near Florence. Even with myself in the early days, I came home one evening and went to bend over Florence and give her a kiss - he went for my throat. Inside of a month he was sitting in my lap watching TV. He was five when we got him, cancer took him a week before his seventeenth birthday. Stll miss him.

[Twenty20Man]

The is a movement going on in the horse world called natural horsemanship. Basically, do things the horses way, not the human way.

It works like this.

Never hit a horse, you only teach it to duck. If a horse acts up, make it back up, horse don't throw punches, they make the other horse back up. Don't place our human value system on an animal that has it own social order.

Sometimes I wonder why dogs, cat's and horses are so quick to partner up with humans. There seems to be so little in it for them.


You can learn alot from horses....I think I'll go play with mine....:yes:

[Sandy G]

I haven't confronted my sister over this. I don't know if I should absolutely blow up at her & unload both barrels of my wrath at once...Or take the high road, be a wuss & not say anything ? Prolly #2...Just glare icily at my sister...It's gonna take a LOOOOOONG time for me to get over my mad about this one...It was so useless, senseless..

[wajobu]

It's really easy to misunderstand what a dog is trying to say. They can't speak in a language we understand, and even the friendly forms of physical communication they use are often misinterpreted as being threatening, or dangerous.

Dogs bite each other, subdue each other, and use their tails, ears and posture to relay an attitude or mood. Dogs often do things that humans think mean one thing, when they actually mean quite another.

There's an excellent chapter in the Barry Lopez book I referred to earlier (Of Wolves and Men). I had very interesting experiences caring for a Husky and Alaskan Malamute in an earlier part of my adult life. Talk about unusual communication...but I admit that I just adored "mixing it up" with the 160 lbs bear-of-a Malamute--close to a wolf in many ways. There's nothing quite like rolling around in the grass and feeling paws "boxing" one's body about the size of a human fist. But I did learn the signs that "playtime" was over.

Well Sandy, perhaps the answer is somewhere in the middle--trying to talk to your sister about how you feel about it...but easy for me to say.

[Clarence]

Lots of opinions here.

Sandy, sorry about your loss.

My opinion is as follows. Anyone who adopts or acqires any pet, aggressive or not, at a mature age should expect some behavioral quirks. These animals, like people, can be set in their ways.

It is not fair to blame the breed for this situation. If you must blame, blame the owner, past and present.

[Sandy G]

I just feel a sense of uselessness-that somehow I failed this poor dog...I SHOULDN'T get so worked up over it..He really was nothing to me...I would have LOVED to "roughouse" & "wooled" him...Never got the chance to..But I DID pick up Gomez, my Chihuahua, this morning, & hugged him extra hard & long...

[Clarence]

Dont beat yourself up over it Sandy.

For every sad story like this, there are a hundred happy ones, like you and you Gomez... and me and Logan. Think I'll grab her a bone and squeeze her so hard her eyes go funny.

[fotno]

There was a lot of extra woolin' that went on here too Sandy... We were sure thinking of you & Bear.

[SuiDog]

Really Sandy, not much you could do about it then or now. Grab what ya got and hold on to it. Makes me appreciate mine and the responsibilities that come with even more.

[Sandy G]

Guys, Y'all don't even know how much yr responses have meant to me...This has been an ordeal-I still ain't over it yet. My mom said my sister was upset over it, too-I snapped, "Well, by God, she OUGHTA be, dammit ! This DIDN'T have to happen..." Cried like a baby about it-Part of that's "the Stroke"-I cry at the drop of a hat since that happened, but mostly it was because I've been so upset at my family, & what unconsionable SHITS they've been. Hell, I better watch my Ps & Qs-they might decide to put ME down if I give 'em too much static...<grin>

[NeedForSpeed]

...Not just at the horror in Blacksburg.This may not seem worth mentioning, but it has me most upset. My loving sister got a Rottweiler, a 3-yr-old 175 lb neutered male, a strapping specimen of the breed a couple of months ago. There were problems w/him from the start, he snapped at her coming home. But we attributed this to the fact the dog was in unfamiliar surroundings, & unfamiliar people. Well, he did pretty good, I thought. I made friends w/him, thought he was a GORGEOUS dog. My sister got peeved though when I'd fool w/him. Well, last week, she went to a Horse Show in Lexington, VA, & left Bear in my dad's care. The dog was sitting on my dad's lap, my dad got up, the dog nailed my dad on his hand. Didn't even break the skin, but for that, my sister decided to put him down, & it was done today. The dog had NEVER shown any aggression whatsoever to me, & Mary Lou had kept him put up in a stall in her horse barn the entire time he was here, letting him out only an hour or so at a time. I don't think the dog ever got a fair chance,he didn't ask for any of this, but in my family, I'm ALWAYS wrong, & whatever my sister says is gospel. I didn't even get to tell him good-bye & that I loved him. Again, this pales in comparison to the tragedy in Blacksburg, but this was personal to me, & I think it's a fairly well-known secret I'm a sucker when it comes to critters...

So sorry for your loss, when I lost my Shepard edward, it helped by rescuing
another puppy from the city lock-up. It still took almost a year to let it go.
Again, sorry man.

[www.records]

Sandy, why did your sister get him in the first place? Was she wanting a guard dog or a family pet? It sounds like another case of an irresponsible pet owner who gets an animal on a whim and then throws them on a chain or in the backyard (horse stall in this case) and forgets about them without giving them the love an attention they need.

Anyway, sorry to hear about what happened. Some animals need special love an attention to be happy and thrive. If that didn't happen to be in the hands of your sister, she should have found the right home for him. His actions were not intended to be vicious, otherwise the results with your dad would have been much different.

Breeding and raising are so important with large potentially aggressive breeds. The owner needs to be an experienced dog owner and handler to give some of these animals a proper home and training.

I am still curious why your sister would get such an animal in the first place?

[SuiDog]

FWIW Sandy, I also cry at the drop of a hat... ever since becoming broke neck quad in '90. Life changes when you seen your own immortality eh. Back to the tunes, blast away the blues. Sorry...

[fotno]

Breeding and raising are so important with large potentially aggressive breeds. The owner needs to be an experienced dog owner and handler to give some of these animals a proper home and training.


So true... I continue to be dumbfounded that so many people acquire a dog because; "he'll make a great watch dog", "for protection", or to be " a lovely pet", then proceed to chain that animal out back and ignore it. Dogs can do all of those things very well, but they're not an appliance that you can wind up, and turn loose to do it's "job".

Recent bad couplings sighted;
A person with a Border Collie, in a 900 sq.ft., 5th floor walkup. A frail 75 year old with a Rottie who wasn't able to control a sudden lunge, or command respect from a strong, dominant breed.

Just yesterday, my 65 year old Mom expressed an interest in adopting Buster #2 (the very sweet 75 lb Boxer/Chow cross dog I'm fostering right now)... I took her outside and handed her his lead, asking her to walk him. One of our cats ran past a few seconds after she took the lead, and he nearly pulled her shoulder out of joint. "Still want him?" I asked her... "Nope, mebbe' another Beagle" was all she replied.