What is your favorite and why? Any we should avoid? There's so many! I don't even know where to start. Some pics would be awesome too.

Nick

505. Highly recommended, IME. Better tone arm than any other Dual, IMHO, and NO CHANGER MECHANISM to screw up.

Also, it was good enough to make it into the Stereophile Recommended Components list ("Budget" category, IIRC), for several years in the mid '80s. Not much stuff can say that!

Though some may recoil in horror at my next statement... STAY AWAY from the 1229s. Too complicated of a mechanism, and the two-position VTA cam-lever mechanism simply gets brittle (it's plastic :( ), cracks, and falls apart. Table's useless once that happens... you can, of course, kludge it back into working, but there's very little chance you'll ever get the cartridge tracking geometry right afterwards...

Also, I'm starting to see motor death on the 604s (direct-drive). The motors on those have microprocessors, which die... and have NO ready replacement parts available OF ANY SORT. Caveat emptor!

Regards,
Gordon.

Kind of a loaded question, as Dual TTs can serve different purposes. I have a 1218 for old stuff for e.g. I always like the looks of a 701. Never had one, though.

I have 1229 that I recently picked up. I have ordered the cartridge mount, so have not used it yet. My research shows that it is one of the most liked here. Reliability seemed to be the common thought. I'm sure others will chime in.

Dan

Edit: I just read Gordon's post. I am new to the Dual camp, so I am curious as to the two-position VTA cam-lever mechanism. I don't even know what that is, so I will abide to his judgement.

Thanks

1219/1229 are widely regarded as the best of the bunch. I have almost no experience with any duals, just relaying what I have heard almost exclusively. I have also heard that for the price, the 505 was good one.

I'd have to say the 741 because that's the one I have. The actual unit is superb but the suspension leaves something to be desired. The tone arm is similar to the 505 but a little more elaborate, with a counterweight that you can adjust for resonance. Works very well too. I just repaired a 505 for a friend. That's quite a nice table too. I used to have another Dual direct drive but I can't remember the model number. Must look around the net for it.

Bryan

I'm actually very happy with mine. It's considered a bottom-feeder for some reason, but the specs are actually decent. I'd get a 1264 if I needed to replace it, as I enjoy the stacking capability.
Tom

1219/1229 again the 'best' turntable seems to be the one that sold the most. All too often these 'best of' posts are skewed by this popularity. I had a 1219, fancy base and dustcover, my brother has the 1019 but we would never consider them the best duals. Sure best at the time when they were new but duals got better for a few more years, but I lost track of them as I was not in the market. I did like the looks of some of the single-play machines when they came out.

CS-714Q. The tonearm mechanism is superb and the semi-auto makes it operate just right: not too complicated.

My favorite Dual is the 1019. Why ? The 7.5 pound platter, a motor the size of a small fist, the almost total lack of plastic, real walnut veneer base with the wood sided dust cover using 3 pieces of Plexiglas with plenty of room to add mass, the manual / auto operation choice. Priceless, the look on visitors faces when they hear a 40 year old turntable prove that vinyl sounds better than CD's.
I also have an unmodified AR ES-1 and a Dual 1219, and believe me the 1019 sounds just as good as they do. The 1019 is usable classic IMO.

I have a 505 and a cs-607. The 505 is my old reliable. It has run forever and all I've ever done is replace the cartridge. The cs-607 I got nonworking for free, spent $100 to get it going, and am having problems with it again (it only plays one channel). If it's not an easy fix I'll have to decide if I want to keep it or eat it.

Does anyone have an opinion about the 502? I have one that's not being used and was thinking of selling it, but if it's considered a decent table then I might reconsider.
I honestly can't remember my impressions of it when I used it many years ago and have been happy with the Denon I'm using now so I never put the Dual into service again.

I have been playing my 701 since I bought it new in Germany. It started life as a 220 volt and had it converted to 110 volt once back stateside. The 721 has a won high regard from me and is a great machine. The 1229 is excellent and once serviced and back to specs would be lovely to have. I have collected quite a few turntables because they are fun and enjoy listening to music. If I was going to focus on just one I think it would be worth seeking Bill Bohhey or Seth because of the love they have for a good Dual and many hours worth of fixing and tweaking them back to perfection. I would also add Fred Longsworth to that list he is in California and the other two are located in the mid-west and east. Duals home is in the Back Forest and a famed area for clock making and should you ever get a good look of the under workings of say a 701 it is a thing of great wonder and so well done.

I have a 505 and a cs-607. The 505 is my old reliable. It has run forever and all I've ever done is replace the cartridge. The cs-607 I got nonworking for free, spent $100 to get it going, and am having problems with it again (it only plays one channel). If it's not an easy fix I'll have to decide if I want to keep it or eat it.

I've got a CS 607 as well. Not a very robust motor on it, but the tonearm is the same as described above: ULM with an anti resonance adjustment. I'm using a thicker platter mat than the stock version, and added some damping to the inside of the table. Pretty decent sounding unit.

I have got a 1219 that I really like. I am going to upgrade the cartridge but, I don't quite know where to go. I was thinking if a Grado silver/gold or a Denon 103. I have got a Sota/Dynavector in my main rig that I like very well. My Dual is in the bedroom and I just dont want to over cartridge it. Anyone have experience with the Denon 103 on a dual table?

Anyways here is a very goos link to a good Dual website

http://dual-reference.com/

Anyone have experience with the Denon 103 on a dual table?


I have it's cousin the 110 (high output) and it sounds good on the dual. I prefer it to the ortofon OM30 it replaced - not quite the detailed highs of th e30, but overall pacier and more solid sound.

I didn't get the 103 as the compliance is so low and not really suited to lightweight arms. Even the 110 needs the extra weight of the balance plate to sound it's best, perhaps the 160 would be better still, but not available in Japan where I obught my 110.

My favorite Dual is the 1019. Why ? The 7.5 pound platter, a motor the size of a small fist, the almost total lack of plastic, real walnut veneer base with the wood sided dust cover using 3 pieces of Plexiglas with plenty of room to add mass, the manual / auto operation choice. Priceless, the look on visitors faces when they hear a 40 year old turntable prove that vinyl sounds better than CD's.
I also have an unmodified AR ES-1 and a Dual 1219, and believe me the 1019 sounds just as good as they do. The 1019 is usable classic IMO.

That's a great description. I love the 1019 for all the same reasons. I like 1229 too, it might sound better, might not. I like the 12" platter better but don't like all the plastic.

Don't even think about putting a Dl-103 on a 1219!
I have one mounted on a Michell Tecnoarm and it even should have more mass to it for a more perfect match. You are much better off with the high compliance MM cartridges such as Shures, Ortofon, or ADC. I have a TRX-1 on my 1219 and like it better than the V15-ll that originally came with it.

I recently ordered some reprints of old Julian Hirsch Stereo Review lab tests of some turntables. The results were rather interesting. Given the span in years and the changes in test methods it was difficult to compare one to another but the ARLL weighted rumble was one constant test throughout. The results were:

Dual CS506 -56 dB
Dual 1229 -56 dB
Dual CS5000 -59 dB
Thorens TD160C -60.5 dB
Dual 510 -61.5 dB
Dual 701 -66 dB

Flutter tests were: (I am not sure if method was consistent)

Dual CS506 .08% rms
Dual 701 .07% rms
Dual CS5000 .06% rms
Dual 1229 .05% rms
Dual 510 .04% rms
Thorens TD160C .04% rms

I am not surprised that the 510 had better numbers than the 1229. I have them both and it correlates with what I hear. I was surprised that the 510 tested that much better than the 506 because Dual’s own numbers would lead you to believe otherwise. I guess the 8 pole motor with the cast platter beats the 16 pole with the light stamped platter regardless of Dual’s specs. The 701 was interesting. Hirsch commented on the flutter which was centered around 200 Hz and therefore less audible than the same value at lower frequencies. The rumble he said was the lowest he had ever measured at the time. I would have thought the CS5000 would have done better.

I still hold that the 510 may be the real sleeper in the lineup. With less parts to go wrong It should provide stable operation for the rest of the lives of some of us. I could also be persuaded by a later model of the 505 (versions 3 or 4) or by the 510’s stablemate in 1976, the 601.

Gordon, I have to say that I was able to repair the arm position mechanism on the 1229 with no problems. The arm now tracks perfectly well.

Fernando

I have three, Two I am using.

The 1229 is a tank. Have a Shure V15 Type III on it. 12 inch platter and a very heavy platter. Cue, Antiskate. Works well.

In mothballs is a 1009F, Has the original base and plexiglass dust cover. It was the good on before United Audio started using a cheap ratty base currrently on Ebay. Nice 10" platter. Very heavy. Cue and antiskate. The plug in head is a pain in the **s sometimes on this series. (1009F, 1009SK and 1019's) as well as the 1010S I had in high shool in the 60's. Try to find a home for it and it did not sell on the Bay. Probalbly will list her here.

The other Dual is the original 1009. Its very plain and maybe thats why I am attracted to this guy. No cue or antiskate. But its a tank, Very heavy platter. At one time I had three of these bad boys. Unit one was to be a parts unit and I fixed it. Great sound. Got it for $20 on Ebay. Got another in mint shape and an OK one. Gave one to my boss. Loves it. Gave one to an AKer whose name I forgot. Hope he likes it. Sent it to Calif. Never charged him for shipping. He had gotten a ratty one and mine had the base and dust cover. I had an AKer sent me a very heavy Teac at no chargeand passed on the favor.Ran my remaining one today in the shop. Making a RTR tape for an AKer. Even though I have the 1229 I do all my recording with the 1009. Its head shell is different than the 1009F and SK's. Better it works. Never has given me any grief.

For nostalga purposes I have tried to get a 1010S like tha one I had in High School. One had a motor issue and the other had a hum I could nt get off. They are the only Duals I could not get to work right. Gave up and sold 'em both.Dont get one of these. Its a low end unit. In 1966 its all I could afford. I also had poor luck with a 1218 that really wasnt the units fault. Be careful when lubricating a Dual. I really me ssed it up. Had a 1215 I got for the base and dust cover. It did not work when I got it but I fixed it and put a ratty base on it I had lying around here and got my $$$ back.

Recommend the 1229. The 1009F or SK's are good but have a 10 inch plattter. I dont hold that against them though. These and the 1019 have cues and antiskate. Hope this helps...

Eric:music:

Amaizing! So much knowledge here, and then Julian Hirsch to back it all up. I would go with anything he said. I spent many a late night at nineteen, pretending to understand what he said in those equipment tests. I wish I still had all those old mags.

Dan

Don't even think about putting a Dl-103 on a 1219!
I have one mounted on a Michell Tecnoarm and it even should have more mass to it for a more perfect match. You are much better off with the high compliance MM cartridges such as Shures, Ortofon, or ADC. I have a TRX-1 on my 1219 and like it better than the V15-ll that originally came with it.
Who makes the TRX-1? I find no referance to it on needle doctor or by doing a google search?

Ive owned several Duals,and in order from favorite to least favorite:
701
1228
601
1219
521
1215
1209
A lot of these can be moved up or down a notch,except the 701.Ive only owned one thorens,a td-170,and the 701 is much better.I love the sound of it,that its reliable as a brick,and pretty,too.
The 1228 and the 1219,all things being equal,would probably finish in a dead heat,but the 1228 had been refurbished,and the 1219 wasnt.A very good sounding table for a changer,and also extremely reliable.
The 601 is a very good sounding belt drive table,but that motor.Everything Ive read says that mine isnt an isolated incident.Sometimes its steady,sometimes it plays very,very,very fast,and you dont know when its coming.
The 1215 was my first dual,so theres a sentimental attachment to it.But compared to the 1209,its a much better sounding,more steady tt,even with that ugly plastic tonearm.
But on the whole,I dont think you can go wrong with any dual.They arent high end tables,usually,but they are reliable,and sound better than many low end direct drive units.
Jimmy

My vote goes for the 1229, good sounding table with great reliability. No longer own this model but wish I still had it.

Jimmy, email Seth, Bohhey or Fred and see if they have a spare motor for the 601 they can sell you. I replaced mine on the 510 with one from a 1246 and now it is pretty much a perfect turntable. Originally it had the same speed problem. I really think the 601 is worth maintaining.

Fernando

I'll second what a few others have said here.
I have a 1019 with a deluxe case I use in my hobby / computer room.
I have a 1229Q I use with my quad setup.
Both are in great shape, work and sound great. Both were popular and for good reason. Just try to get one in good shape to begin with, do some basic maintenance and they should serve you well.
The others mentioned are good too. Do some research and choose what seems right for you.
Jim

i'd vote for my first ever turntable which was a dual cs 505/II deluxe...it didn't compare at the frequency extremes to a rega p2..but as an introduction to hi fidelity sound on a budget it warranted its mid 80's best buy rating and then some...
sadly the arm developed some play in the bearings...although in truth..i always thought the ulm tone arm was the biggest limiting factor of the deck...
it didn't like heavy or low compliance cartridges and anything beyond an ortofon om 20 or an at110e would have been wasted money in that arm imho...
pair it with a high compliance cartridge, however, and you have a very decent sounding deck with a bit more finesse than say a bog standard pioneer pl12d...for a budget deck it also had quite good acoustic isolation from vibration which was a bonus given its flimsy arm...
in its favour..the ulm arm was capable of tracking some quite badly warped records...many of which would have sent a heavier arm skating across the record...
i'd still be tempted to buy one for playing less than perfect records and digitising those old 45 7" singles...

It sounds as if you no longer have the 505. On Duals bearing play can be easily adjusted by tiny set screws. One on the inside of the arm for vertical motion, and one at the top for lateral. Your arm was probably still good.

Fernando

Speaking of the 505, does anyone know where to get the cartridge mount/adapter at a reasonable price? I have one that spins perfectly but there's no cart on it at all.
I can't afford to dump a bunch of $ into this thing and I hear the part is pretty expensive..
Dan

*deleted by OM: unverified info*

The -68 dB quoted by Dual for the 1257 is using the DIN (German) standard method. The result can not really be compared to the ARLL method used by Stereo Review. For example, the only test SR did using both methods was the CS5000. It came in at -68 dB DIN and -59 dB ARLL. What I liked about the SR reprints was that it gave a consistent method (ARLL) by the same lab for the 15 year period between the 1229 and the CS5000. That is really the only way to compare. I do not trust Dual's own specs which show better numbers for their newer tables such as the 506 than older ones such as the 510 or 1229 when the independent lab shows that is not the case. SR also did a test of the CS741 which I do not have. I am curious to see how it compared to the 701.

Fernando

The -68 dB quoted by Dual for the 1257 is using the DIN (German) standard method. The result can not really be compared to the ARLL method used by Stereo Review. For example, the only test SR did using both methods was the CS5000. It came in at -68 dB DIN and -59 dB ARLL. What I liked about the SR reprints was that it gave a consistent method (ARLL) by the same lab for the 15 year period between the 1229 and the CS5000. That is really the only way to compare. I do not trust Dual's own specs which show better numbers for their newer tables such as the 506 than older ones such as the 510 or 1229 when the independent lab shows that is not the case. SR also did a test of the CS741 which I do not have. I am curious to see how it compared to the 701.

Fernando
Nuts! :gigglemad
If I'd only kept Julian Hirsch's review of both the 1257 and the 1264; then I'd have consistent figures! Okay, I'll delete the post; don't want to blow my own horn without definitive info. Fernando, thank you for setting me straight.
Tom

Tom, here is the link to the guy with the reprints. Seems like an interesting character, former Director of Research at McIntosh. I see one for the 1264 (Nov 80) but not for the 1257.

http://www.roger-russell.com/magrevsr.htm

Fernando

I really love my restored 1019 in its beautiful wooden base, in my opinion these Duals are the prettiest :D ... Think the Ck2 base was only available in Europe (?) but I might be wrong.

I had some friends over at Christmas and played a carefully selected record (with a new NOS Ortofon FF15C mk2 cartridge fitted) they thought I was playing a CD, the look on their faces was priceless when I told them it was a turntable from late sixties...I still get a lot of joy out of that moment when I think back upon it.

Here are some pics of my Dual 1019, the last pic is form a Original Dual sales catalog.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2564/img0178bh5.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6162/img0180zl1.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2395/img0182op0.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2663/duallbe6.jpg

Where can you get one of these? Is it as heavy as it looks it is?

Who makes the TRX-1? I find no referance to it on needle doctor or by doing a google search?

Late ADC line outsourced to Japan's early ZYX designer. There were three in the line with the TRX-3 the most sought after. A bunch of NOS went on eBay a couple of months ago and after they got discovered and publicized by an AA thread, they went for serious money.

I really love my restored 1019 in its beautiful wooden base, in my opinion these Duals are the prettiest :D ... Think the Ck2 base was only available in Europe (?) but I might be wrong.

I had some friends over at Christmas and played a carefully selected record (with a new NOS Ortofon FF15C mk2 cartridge fitted) they thought I was playing a CD, the look on their faces was priceless when I told them it was a turntable from late sixties...I still get a lot of joy out of that moment when I think back upon it.

Here are some pics of my Dual 1019, the last pic is form a Original Dual sales catalog.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2564/img0178bh5.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6162/img0180zl1.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2395/img0182op0.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2663/duallbe6.jpg


Those European bases are the best. Beat the crap out of the "United Audio" bases sold in the US. Nice looking example you have there!! Eric:music:

Looks just like mine Grosvenor, that base has plenty of room for additional mass. I have had the same reaction from friends, even better when the vinyl is from the early '60's ! did not know that was a European base. I got it with a 1009 I found at a estate sale.

731 Q

Where can you get one of these? Is it as heavy as it looks it is?

Hi, sorry for delay in reply...

I bought the clamp on German ebay, I believe the seller makes them himself. Its really heavy yes. It has even got a built in spirit, bubble level at the center.

MrG have you removed the springs from under the table ?

MrG have you removed the springs from under the table ?

Nope.... should I ? :scratch2:

Let's not be too hasty in our complete condemnation of United Audio.

The base on my 1019 with a United Audio badge on the front is identical to Mr. Grosvenor's.

Doug

I am presently using a 721, a 731, and a 621. The 621 with a Grado is right up there with the 721 with a Shure V15 III. According to the DUAL Reference site the rumble unweighted on the 731 is 55dB, 721 50dB, and 621 45dB. The wow and flutter on the 721 is +/-0.03% and on the 621 is +/-0.06%. The speed on the 731 is rock solid and very good on the other two. I would say any of these would be good. A 621 recently went for about $20.00 on eBay. The 731's are rare and the 721's go from around $90.00 on up, mainly up.

MrGrosvenor, does the clamp have a noticeable effect on the turntable sound if so, how? how heavy is it? I've thinking of getting a clamp like that for my 1019. Thanks

MrGrosvenor, does the clamp have a noticeable effect on the turntable sound if so, how? how heavy is it? I've thinking of getting a clamp like that for my 1019. Thanks

well wheter the clamp has a true effect on the sound I cannot tell for sure, I tend to think the bass are a bit tighter, more defined so the possible effect would be there... but I havent done any blind testing, with and without the clamp.

Visually Im sure it has an effect :D , I think the turntable look much more complete with the clamp.The 1019 mechanism is very heavy on its own, think the clamp blends in very well. Now that I know all the bearings are carefully cleaned and lubricated I dont worry much about the extra weight. Whats amazing is how quickly it picks up the correct speed despite the extra weight of the clamp, the 1019 platter is very heavy as it is.

The weight of the clamp is about 1040 grams, just above one kilogram.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/4151/clampsw0.jpg

Thanks for the info - That's one heavy clamp about 2.2 lbs. I agree that the bearing should be OK with that extra weight. After all, the Dual 1019 was designed to hold a stack of what 6 -10 records? that would be 2-3 lbs of records. What was the cost?

Thanks for the info - That's one heavy clamp about 2.2 lbs. I agree that the bearing should be OK with that extra weight. After all, the Dual 1019 was designed to hold a stack of what 6 -10 records? that would be 2-3 lbs of records. What was the cost?

Think it was about 55 Euros + shipping. The same guy have one up for auction now, not sure if its OK to post a link here. It might be that he only ship within Europe but of course you can always contact him.

Make a search on German ebay for "plattengewicht" and you will find listings with several record clamps.

Good luck.

well wheter the clamp has a true effect on the sound I cannot tell for sure, I tend to think the bass are a bit tighter, more defined so the possible effect would be there... but I havent done any blind testing, with and without the clamp.

Visually Im sure it has an effect :D , I think the turntable look much more complete with the clamp.The 1019 mechanism is very heavy on its own, think the clamp blends in very well. Now that I know all the bearings are carefully cleaned and lubricated I dont worry much about the extra weight. Whats amazing is how quickly it picks up the correct speed despite the extra weight of the clamp, the 1019 platter is very heavy as it is.

The weight of the clamp is about 1040 grams, just above one kilogram.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/4151/clampsw0.jpg

I may be wrong, but I believe that this is a record weight and not a record clamp. A clamp screws down to the center spindle. I believe that they are both there for the same reason, to flatten down pressings. They do make a differance in sound, but depending on your TT motor it may be wise to use the clamp.

Don't even think about putting a Dl-103 on a 1219!
I have one mounted on a Michell Tecnoarm and it even should have more mass to it for a more perfect match. You are much better off with the high compliance MM cartridges such as Shures, Ortofon, or ADC. I have a TRX-1 on my 1219 and like it better than the V15-ll that originally came with it.

soundoc03 who makes the TRX-1 that you refer too? I find no mention of it on needle doctor on on a google search. Thanks

Got a 1009SK with an Ortofon M20FL cartridge... Needs rewiring of the tonearm, but works great otherwise. Has the usual trapezoidal UA base with the badge in the center front - came with a Dual 1215 that I refitted with the current Dual base... Previously owned a Dual 1216 in addition to the 1215. Kept the 1009SK. Had one when I was growing up, on a Harman/Kardon Nocturne SC-7 stereo receiver... That one had the old Audio-Technica AT88E cartridge on it...

-J

I may be wrong, but I believe that this is a record weight and not a record clamp. A clamp screws down to the center spindle. I believe that they are both there for the same reason, to flatten down pressings. They do make a differance in sound, but depending on your TT motor it may be wise to use the clamp.

Im sure youre right, I didnt think about the difference, of course its a record weight.

Late ADC line outsourced to Japan's early ZYX designer. There were three in the line with the TRX-3 the most sought after. A bunch of NOS went on eBay a couple of months ago and after they got discovered and publicized by an AA thread, they went for serious money.

Thanks alot . If it would have been on my nose I would have missed it!!

I have owned several Dual turntables. Here are the models:
1009, stolen about 15 years ago. Built like a tank
1237, gimbal failure due to cheap plastic construction. Parts unit.
510, destroyed in a fire. Nice unit.
601, gave it to my dad so he could digitize his album collection.
506, acquired it to replace the 601. Still own it.
1228, prefer this to the 1237. Still own the 1228.

The 601 may be the best of the bunch. Some of the 601 and 510 units had a bad motor: the SM840. The correct motor replacement is the SM860. The 1237 comes with the SM860 motor and can be transplanted into the 601 or 510 as well as other popular models. The 601 has a very heavy platter and a sub-platter with an excellent bearing. The tonearm of the 601 is similar to the 1229Q. A nice looking and performing deck.

I'm happy with the 506. The semi-automatic is easy to maintain and the performance is very good. A high compliance cartridge works well for this model. I use a Shure M95ED with excellent results. I replaced the steel platter with a heavier alloy platter from a Dual 502. Warning: this platter change will not work for all 506 models. Overall a very nice deck. The good performance, ease of maintenance, and availability of parts make it a good choice.

Just thumbed through this thread.
Can't believe that I never put in my own $.02.

Everyone here knows how I feel about the 2nd generation Dual 1219. All-metal just about everything. Much quieter than the specs would lead you to believe. And the medium-mass arm is solid-as-Sears rigid. Sounds wonderful. And very reliable, if you ever bother to do simple maintanance.
The 3rd-gen 1219, and both the 1229 and 1229Q have a differently-moulded platter that doesn't sound quite as good. The arm on the Q is low-mass, and can track anything, but at the expense of a loss of fidelity. All those models have 90% of parts in common, but some not-too-apparent differences create a different sound from each.
The 701 seems to have a hidden flutter that muddies the sound. I have had several pristine units, and just didn't like the sound. Want direct drive? Quartz-Locked is the only technology to consider.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

Well, My first turntable, which I got 4 moths ago, is my grandfathers Dual 1009. 44 years old and runs like a champ. Built like a tank and weighs as much as one too. Also, the springs that hold the plinth up do their job very well. I can crank my tunes and jump around all I wan and the music never skips. :thmbsp:

MrGrosvenor, I really wish I could have seen that look on their faces also. That's priceless. And that's a very cool Dual.

I love the 1229, I bought in college in 1973, and still have. However, the 510 is quieter overall. I upgraded it with an SM-860 motor. I have found that the 510 sounds much better in the wood base from the 1229 rather than its own plastic one. I think it is time for some carpentry. I think some of the sonic preferences in favor of the idlers may be due to the better damping in the old wood bases. I think the German base for the 1019 was particularly good.

I am working on restoring a 601, also with an SM-860 motor. When I finish I will post some impressions. So far I am impressed with the platter assembly and with the robust bearing, which is a different design from the changers and even the other manuals.

Regarding the direct drives, a German collector that calls himself Dualfred swears by the 714. The motor appears to be the EDS- 900 series like the 704, but with quartz phase locked loop speed regulation, which the 701, 704 or 721 did not have. The other tables with this drive are the 731 and 741. I’d be curious to see Notransistor’s impression of a 714.

I still like the first generation belts. I also have a second generation 504, but the 510 is to me audibly superior. Many of the internal parts such as the anti-skate levers and arm gimbal frame are metal instead of the plastic from the later models. The platter is the same cast aluminum unit found on the 704 and 721 and not the light stamping in later belt models. I can’t wait to finish the 601. The platter assembly is heavier than the 510 and the bearing looks even better.

Fernando

NoTransistors is now waiting for a lender 714 to review.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

i've had 1019, 1219, 1249, cs5000. The 1019 had a problem hold speed from time to time even though I put two different motors in it. I had a hard time really distinguishing the other 3 from each other. In all fairness I never put a quality cartridge on any of them and when I finally got a new shure v15 it went on the denon and the duals wen't on ebay.

Of all the Duals I think I liked the 1019 the most (I think there was just something wrong with mine). I going to be getting a 1229 soon and I have a shure v15IV with new Jico SAS stylus waiting for it :)

Steve

Fernando.....Is that a 1246 in your avatar?

Hi,

My favorite Dual turntables are: The 1009 (a tank and simple to maintain), the 1218 (I have owned 7 of them through the years, wish I still had one), and the 1229 (just make sure your's doesn't double-speed. To repair this needs the upgraded, expensive motor):tresbon:

The only Dual I have ever had is the 1226, which is not regarded as a high end table. It may be underrated. Mine, which had been serviced when I bought it, works perfectly, and sounds pretty good to my ears. Maybe a little audible rumble when playing some classical music vey loud, but it tracks well and has good highs with an inexpensive AT 311 cartridge. I recently added a little mass with bags of sand inside the cheap plastic base. The (undersize) platter is 4 lbs., and the arm is basically the top of the line arm from some earlier model. I like it a lot.

I have owned 3 Duals. Purchased a 1229 just prior to the 1229Q coming out. At that time, if you remember, the base, cover, and cartridge were all sold seperately. Can't remember what I paid for it but it was a package deal including (what I would consider rare today) a Dual DM103 ME cartridge which I still own. This was a Shure M91 ED with a body designed to just snap into the headshell w/o screws. No fuss, no muss! The second was a 601 that my sister still has and finally, another 1229 which just died last week. Motor sounds like it's working but platter does not spin. Time to make a trip to Toronto to have it looked at. Been 3 years since it's had a lube anyways.

Fernando.....Is that a 1246 in your avatar?

It is a 510 with a 1246 arm tube and head. The original arm had an intermittent open ground that was driving me crazy. The 1246 had a bad noisy main bearing. I think the previous owner must have stacked stuff on the platter. The 510 also has the SM-860 motor from the 1246.

Fernando

Franken-Dual. Cool. I just noticed the base looked similar to my 1246. I haven't seen alot of 1246's around. I was told they were likely a lower-end model made for a particular retailer.

The 1246 was actually Dual's top of the line full automatic changer during its short production run. It was the successor to the 1249 and 1245. It was replaced by the 1264 when the developed the ULM arm. I prefer it to the 1264 because it had a heavier cast platter.

Fernando

Just goes to show don't believe everything you hear I guess. Thanks for the info (feeling better about my TT).

I'm surprised that more has not been said about the CS5000...by the prices they are getting on Ebay I would think it was one of the better TTs. I have been lusting after one for some time but cant bring myself to pay the 4-500 that they are fetching. My 510 sounds great, it jsut doesnt look as nice as the 5000

What is your favorite and why? Any we should avoid? There's so many! I don't even know where to start. Some pics would be awesome too.

Nick

Dual 714-Q.....hands down! I always lusted after one (when I couldn't afford it)....now that I can afford it, it's gone.

I just finished restoring this day a 1229 that I recieved from a friend, along with a 1219 and stacks of LPs and am now listening to Anne Murray, Tom T Hall and an old Eddy Arnold album. So far it's much quieter than the Garrard AT-70 it replaced. It was a tough restore but worth it I think.

wow, great thread!

i'm just getting into the audiophile analog world now (age 28, so i HAVE used records in my lifespan!), and as i am in the market for a nice, new turntable, a (partially) functional Dual 1019 falls into my lap! Along with it came a non-functional Dual 1209.

Both of these are in a shop in NYC being evaluated and repaired. the 1019 seems to work just fine, but there is no sound out of the left channel - perhaps a new cartridge will fix that, but it may need more work. the 1209 doesn't turn on at all and will likely need more extensive work. the guy doing the repairs used to fix Duals back in the 60s and 70s, so he should know what is going on.

based on some other recommendations and my reading here, it seems that the 1019 is really the gem that i'd want to keep - i certainly don't need 2 turntables, and repairing both will probably be too expensive.

for those with 1019s here, what sort of cartridges are you using? i've been looking for some that are geared towards a table with low tracking force, which is apparently what the 1019 manual suggests. i made another thread if you'd like to chime in there:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=162032

glad that these old & beautiful turntables are still in use by this community - i feel much better knowing that others continue loving their Duals!

Get a hold of Seth (NoTransistors on this forum) in Brooklyn if you want your Duals fixed correctly.

No affiliation - unless Seth does "business" the old fashioned New York way....

Get a hold of Seth (NoTransistors on this forum) in Brooklyn if you want your Duals fixed correctly.

No affiliation - unless Seth does "business" the old fashioned New York way....


thanks for that, I have PM'd him. really appreciate the hook-up!

the 1019 seems to work just fine, but there is no sound out of the left channel - perhaps a new cartridge will fix that, but it may need more work.

Check the RCA cable. Two out of two of my Duals had problems with the sound that I traced down to the RCA cables. The Germans could make mechanical things but electronics were not their strong point. :yes:

Check the RCA cable. Two out of two of my Duals had problems with the sound that I traced down to the RCA cables. The Germans could make mechanical things but electronics were not their strong point. :yes:

:D

thanks, will do. the table is currently in the shop, and the RCA cable is one of the first things he looked at and said would need to be replaced. i expect to have a better idea of what is wrong, and how much it'll cost me to fix it, tomorrow...

... so hopefully soon, this will be me: :music:

The removable headshell in the 1019 may also be the culprit the contacts have to be really clean to work properly.

i've been reading that, ejman - thanks! i'm hoping it is something that simple - because from what i can gather, finding replacement headshells for the 1019 is next to impossible!

Bill,

Thank You.

P.S.- As of this evening, I apparently also fix Whirlpool washing machines, Maytag dishwashers, and kitchen hanging light fixtures. All three crapped out in the last 12 hours. Two are now back in use.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

yup - my old Speed Queen washer recently died after 22 years of faithful service.....

and thank YOU, both Bill & Seth... had a good chat with Seth just now, thanks for taking the time to go through some of those tips with me, i'm hoping to get everything dialed in as well as i can! i'll post some pics once i get it all set up this weekend!

this place rocks! :banana::music::banana:

I LOVE my walnut CS-5000!

This style/shape/look has always appealed to me the most, and it spins like a true champ. Dead-on timing, quiet, easy to set up with the Ortofon cart (aced every track but HFN Test #9, and only slightly buzzed then).

I may one day search out an AR, but I will still hang on to this Dual...I think she's beautiful!!

My favorite DUAL has to be the 1219. Properly maintained they are a real joy to use and listen to. Very close behind is the 1229, 1019, 1228, and 1249. (I'm not rating any I've never heard or used).

I've owned several 1219s over the years but for some reason I always end up selling mine. My current DUAL is a pristine restored 1019, circa 1969. I won't be selling it. No, it isn't as "quiet" as my Thorens or Pioneer PL-570, but rumble is not a problem and that tonearm that looks like a heavyweight is actually an excellent tracker. Mine currently sports a Pickering XV15-750E with new stylus - a near perfect choice for the Dual.

My wife won't use my other tables but the Dual is fine for her. She has no problem with it. (Of course, with the PL-570 she only need push a button! I think the sheer immensity of the Pioneer scares her off. The 1019 is petite by comparison.)

I am new to Dual TTs. I always thought they were cheap-o TTs sold at appliance stores. A friend of mine gave me a 1229Q and I let it sit in the box for months thinking I might be able to get a couple bucks for it of CL. When I pulled it out of the box to clean it up, I was shocked at the weight of the platter, the delicacy of the arm, the size of the motor, and now that I've lubed her up good, it works great. I don't think I need another or better TT. However, I am building a 20" X 20" X 6" acrylic plinth for it just to make it look pretty and give it some weight.

I also am becoming fond of the 70's retro look. Not so sleek, but cool looking.