Old Dacs vs New Dacs Surprise

[howiebrou]

Since the dearly departed MCD201 left my system I have been using my Denon DVD 2930 player to feed my C2200 and Mc2000. I didn't think the sound was tooo bad IMHO.

I recall lost of posts discussing how digital processing has advanced significantly over the past decade such that a $100 CDP might beat a $1000 CDP from a decade ago.

This prompted me to dig out my 1992/93 PS Audio Ultralink DAC and connect it by Coaxial to the digital output of my Denon. Surprise surprise, as I had the denon connected to the CD input and the PS Audio connected to the DVD input, the PS Audio beat by the Denon hands down! Admitedly the PS Audio was a $1.5k DAC in the early nineties if I recall :scratch2: I was still surprised by the difference. Firmer base, smoother midband, clearer treble, wider, deeper and taller soundstage. By comparison, when I A/Bed with the Denon, it sounded like I was sitting in an airplane with stuffy nostrils and blocked up ears. I was a little taken aback. I did audition the PS Audio with the MCD201 and the DAC on the 201 is definitely a lot better :yes:

[PHC1]

Not sure if your findings only have to do with the difference in DACs. The power supply has a lot to do with it too. After all, most of the high end audio gear has always had a least a half decent power supply, mid-fi gear usually does not. I am sure the power supply in PS Audio is much more robust even though it is only a DAC than the whole power supply in that Denon. By letting the digital to analog conversion take place in a component with a better power supply, it is quite possible such things as the bass, soundstage and others you described will be much better. Many manufacturers offer an upgraded power supply to the wall-wart ones the gear comes with and the difference is usually very audible, even though the component in question "technically" works with the wall-wart power supply too. Witness the supposed sonic benefits the much more robust power supply of the 871 brought on.

[PHC1]

Yep, just took a look at PS Audio website and sure as heck this is what they had in reference to their new outboard DAC.

"Power supply:
Last, but certainly not least, is the power supply. Everything we do to help the sonics of our product be the best in the world would be for naught if we had a small power supply. We’ve seen everything from the wall mounted transformer supplies (shudder) to power amp size power supplies. Bottom line is this: if you want high-end performance you need a high-end power supply.

Inside the DLIII is a huge transformer, coupled to many thousands of microfarads of capacitance, Linear Technologies regulators and high speed, low noise diodes. We have taken every effort to make the DLIII as good as it gets."

[howiebrou]

I guess I wasn't just meaning the chips but the whole shabang including power supplies. :yes:

But from a company that sells power regenerators it could be a little bias! :scratch2:

BTW, has anyone tried the PS Audio power plant premier in their system? (Ivan?) A dealer told me that it is the best thing since sliced bread easily besting power conditioners etc etc of similar price. I think it is about 2k over here.

howie

[PHC1]

But from a company that sells power regenerators it could be a little bias!Many high end manufacturers feel the same way.

[Jericho]

I guess I wasn't just meaning the chips but the whole shabang including power supplies. :yes:

But from a company that sells power regenerators it could be a little bias! :scratch2:

BTW, has anyone tried the PS Audio power plant premier in their system? (Ivan?) A dealer told me that it is the best thing since sliced bread easily besting power conditioners etc etc of similar price. I think it is about 2k over here.

howie

A friend of mine did the test and he prefers the PS Audio P1000.I also have a P1000 and can tell you that I use it with my MX-135, the MVP871 and the MS300.
If you connect the 1201 block on the power plant, I noticed that you lose a lot of punch, with the new power plant this is even more significant.

Jericho

[howiebrou]

A friend of mine did the test and he prefers the PS Audio P1000.I also have a P1000 and can tell you that I use it with my MX-135, the MVP871 and the MS300.
If you connect the 1201 block on the power plant, I noticed that you lose a lot of punch, with the new power plant this is even more significant.

Jericho

Is this suggesting that the power plant is restricting the current somewhat?

I thought the power plants merely regenerate power from the wall socket. From what you said it seems like it is either a) not powerful enough for the 1201s or b) acting like a power conditioner in series :scratch2:

Have you ever had a chance to compare it to the RGPC1200 which is similarly priced?

howie

[Jericho]

Is this suggesting that the power plant is restricting the current somewhat?

I thought the power plants merely regenerate power from the wall socket. From what you said it seems like it is either a) not powerful enough for the 1201s or b) acting like a power conditioner in series :scratch2:

Have you ever had a chance to compare it to the RGPC1200 which is similarly priced?

howie

I've never compared it to the RGPC, in fact it acts like a power conditioner, max = 1000 watt 220-240 Volt

[salm]

Since the dearly departed MCD201 left my system I have been using my Denon DVD 2930 player to feed my C2200 and Mc2000. I didn't think the sound was tooo bad IMHO.

I recall lost of posts discussing how digital processing has advanced significantly over the past decade such that a $100 CDP might beat a $1000 CDP from a decade ago.

This prompted me to dig out my 1992/93 PS Audio Ultralink DAC and connect it by Coaxial to the digital output of my Denon. Surprise surprise, as I had the denon connected to the CD input and the PS Audio connected to the DVD input, the PS Audio beat by the Denon hands down! Admitedly the PS Audio was a $1.5k DAC in the early nineties if I recall :scratch2: I was still surprised by the difference. Firmer base, smoother midband, clearer treble, wider, deeper and taller soundstage. By comparison, when I A/Bed with the Denon, it sounded like I was sitting in an airplane with stuffy nostrils and blocked up ears. I was a little taken aback. I did audition the PS Audio with the MCD201 and the DAC on the 201 is definitely a lot better :yes:

Howie,
I have a new Rotel RDV-150 DVD-A that I use in 2 ch mode. I also have the digital out connected to my old Theta DS ProPrime II. Depending on the material I use either the Rotel analog out or the Theta, I've never really been able to settle on one DAC or the other. All of which may just be mental masturbation to try and justify buying a Benchmark DAC to replace the Theta. :D In general the Theta has deeper and more powerful bass than the Rotel, and on some material the Rotel seems smoother and more detailed through the mids and highs. But not always.