RUSH "Snakes And Arrows"

[Tripqzon]

Artist: Rush
Title: Snake and Arrows
Year: 2007
Record Label: Atlanta/Wea
Genre: Rock

Boy was I surprised when I pressed the PLAY button on my remote.

First of all, This cd is really loud. I mean really LOUD!! I had to turn the volume almost all the way down. to get it at a comfortable listening level.

Secondly, there is no life to it. The dynamics are compressed big time. The music sounds squished and dull. I thought that the band would have figured out after their last release "Vapor Trails" that high recording levels and mega compression just ruin the sound. It's a real shame as I have been a Rush fan for as long as I can remember.

Thirdly, I'm really glad that I have a DBX 3BX III Dynamic Range Expander or I probably would not be able to listen to this cd and actually enjoy it. I have to run the Impact Restoration at ~11 o'clock, Expansion level at ~35%, and Threshold level at ~10 o'clock. I normally run them at ~10 o'clock, 20% and 12 o'clock respectively.

As far the content of the music. I love it. It is what you would expect from Rush. Diverse writing and Neil Pert is still a kick butt drummer. I love that there lyrics are not about hatred, foul language and womanizing. You know, the typical stuff you hear these days.:thumbsdn:

I give this cd a 6 out of 10 for sound quality and a 10 out of 10 for content.

Paul

[Urizen]

First of all, This cd is really loud. I mean really LOUD!! I had to turn the volume almost all the way down. to get it at a comfortable listening level.

Secondly, there is no life to it. The dynamics are compressed big time. The music sounds squished and dull. I thought that the band would have figured out after their last release "Vapor Trails" that high recording levels and mega compression just ruin the sound. It's a real shame as I have been a Rush fan for as long as I can remember.

Paul,

I cannot for the life of me figure out why they continue to record this way. Because it will sound better on the radio or on MP3? Who knows, but it has kept me from buying new releases from what is one of my favorite bands.

I agree, it's a shame.

Ken

[Tripqzon]

With recording quality being so bad it's no wonder people prefer to download lower bit rate versions of their favorite music. Why pay $18.00 or so for crap when you can get comparable crap for a fraction of the cost or free?

Paul

[Permanent Waves]

You guys are crazy! :p:

Yes this album does have a bit of clipping and is a little dense, but it is much better recorded than VT! Dare I say that is sounds fresh, dynamic, open, sharp, clear, detailed and organic? Yes I do! :D

I for one can enjoy it!

10/10 for album content, 8/10 for sound quality.

And as I addressed in a different thread, there is nothing wrong with Rush's recording for the most part on any of their albums save VT. Nothing that is unless you are overly picky and as Rush would say "Seeing the trees instead of the forest." No offense fellow fans, but it is just rock, not classical, what do you expect? Every Rush album is entirely listenable and some are even of very good quality, mastered or not (besides VT). This will sound condenscending and I don't mean it to be, but I really feel sorry for anyone who misses out on any band's great music because he or she is too concerned about an albums lack of perfect pure fidelity sound to be able to enjoy the content. I mean I have even managed to immensely enjoy VT! Imagine that! :rolleyes: But then if the only way I was able to listen to Rush was by having someone put the phone up to their boombox over a long distance crackly connection I would still listen to them! :screwy:

Quit being overly (anal)ytical and just rock out to a great brand new Rush album made 30 odd years after they started that is as good as anything they've ever done! :rockon:

PS: Rush has never been very concerned about getting radio airplay and they don't expect it, and I have some good quality mp3's of SnA that pale compared to the cd version. Wait untill I get the DVD-A version!

PPS: I don't know where you get your cd's, but I paid $10 at Circuit City for this one.

[Dusty Chalk]

Yes, looking at the waveform, it is obviously quite maximized, but I don't find it near as unlistenable as Vapor Trails. Too loud? Turn it down! But...I mean, c'mon, it's rock and roll, it should be loud!

[Permanent Waves]

I listened to both VT and SnA back to back and it was like night and day. VT is bad, SnA is at least a good recording.

And again Rush has always been known for having well recorded and produced albums, I really don't understand the criticism.

Anyway, SnA is a fantastic album that is among their best and gets better with every listen. I highly recommend getting it: even if you don't like it or can't enjoy it's sound quality for some reason, what the hell, just trade it in to a used cd store, it's only $10-$15 anyway!

[BroonsBane]

Anyway, SnA is a fantastic album that is among their best and gets better with every listen. I highly recommend getting it:

I couldn't agree more. Don't miss out on this superb album :guitar:

[Tripqzon]

Don't get me wrong. I've listened to SNA a number of times and really love it. It is fantastic as I've come to know of Rush.

I highly recommend it to any Rush fan.:yes: :yes:

In fact, when I purchased it the clerk at the local Bull Moose store told me it was selling like hotcakes and he asked me if he should get it. I told him yes. If he likes Rush he would not regret it.

As far as VT, yes the recording quality is piss poor to say the least, but it still rocks.

Hopefully this clears my position on this excellent new disc.

BUY IY NOW!!!!

Paul

[exracer]

Don't get me wrong. I've listened to SNA a number of times and really love it. It is fantastic as I've come to know of Rush.

I highly recommend it to any Rush fan.:yes: :yes:

In fact, when I purchased it the clerk at the local Bull Moose store told me it was selling like hotcakes and he asked me if he should get it. I told him yes. If he likes Rush he would not regret it.

As far as VT, yes the recording quality is piss poor to say the least, but it still rocks.

Hopefully this clears my position on this excellent new disc.

BUY IY NOW!!!!

Paul

piss poor is a little extreme, me thinks. Ill go one higher than your rating and give it a 7/10 for recording quality. Yes it is a recording meant to play on the airwaves somewhat, but it is definitely better than alot of popular rock recordings lately, such as Velvet Revolver, now that is piss poor ! At least the cymbals on the Snakes and Arrows album sound like cymbals!

[Permanent Waves]

piss poor is a little extreme, me thinks. Ill go one higher than your rating and give it a 7/10 for recording quality. Yes it is a recording meant to play on the airwaves somewhat, but it is definitely better than alot of popular rock recordings lately, such as Velvet Revolver, now that is piss poor ! At least the cymbals on the Snakes and Arrows album sound like cymbals!

He meant the recording on "VT" which stands for Rush's 2002 release "Vapor Trails" is very poor, and he is totally correct: the recording on that album is bad and demonstrably flawed, and has been shown as such by technical evaluations of it and even the band admitting there were problems in the final product (clipping, distortion, and compression).

In fact, SnA sounds so much better compared to VT it's amazing. I have listened to both shuffled together and it is like night and day. Again, I give SnA an 8/10 for recording and a 10/10 for content. Either way it won't dissapoint, it's a fantastic album, give it a listen! :thmbsp:

PS: I apologize if I gave offense to anyone with my earlier postings here, I was being sarcastic and joking, all in good spirit, but in text form it may not have come off as that.

PPS: SnA has debuted at #3 on the Billboard charts! Not bad for a bunch of mid 50 year olds who have been together for 30+ years! :D

Enjoy this great new album Rush fans and see you on the tour! :D

[Tripqzon]

piss poor is a little extreme, me thinks. Ill go one higher than your rating and give it a 7/10 for recording quality. Yes it is a recording meant to play on the airwaves somewhat, but it is definitely better than alot of popular rock recordings lately, such as Velvet Revolver, now that is piss poor ! At least the cymbals on the Snakes and Arrows album sound like cymbals!

I did indeed mean that Vapor Trails is a piss poor recording. And yes there are worse recordings.
As I stated in my previous post I highly recommend SnA to any Rush fan.

Paul

[exracer]

I did indeed mean that Vapor Trails is a piss poor recording. And yes there are worse recordings.
As I stated in my previous post I highly recommend SnA to any Rush fan.

Paul

I stand corrected ! yes missed the acronym VT there... never bought vapour trails and sounds like I shouldnt.

I agree with the latest recording, I just love the mix of music from the acoustic to the instrumentals especially the bluesy track 7 !:thmbsp:

lets hope they release another like it in a shorter period of time !

[BroonsBane]

I stand corrected ! yes missed the acronym VT there... never bought vapour trails and sounds like I shouldnt.


No, you should buy VT despite its shortcomings, there is some awesome music on that album. Don't miss out :thmbsp:

[Permanent Waves]

No, you should buy VT despite its shortcomings, there is some awesome music on that album. Don't miss out :thmbsp:

Agreed, VT is a fantastic album that I have throughly enjoyed despite it's bad recording, I think it's one of their best. :thmbsp: If they ever remaster it be sure to pick it up, and you may want to get it used anyway: I mean for $7 or so at a used cd store it would be worth the risk. :yes:

It all comes down to how sensitive you are to picking up on the flaws in the sound of any album from any band. 10 people will listen to the same album and some will hear nothing wrong, others will hear something that is off but not be bothered by it, and others will not even be able to listen to it. Many who have VT can not understand why so many of us think it has a bad recording/production/sound at all. Perhaps their hearing or equipment isn't as sensitive, or perhaps they're just not as picky as those who over analyze their music's recording to death to the point of missing out on the music itself because of some perceived flaw(s) within it of how it strays from how they think it should sound. :D

Don't miss out on any band's album or music you are interested in due to the opinions of others, simply get it and judge for yourself! :thmbsp:

[Tripqzon]

I stand corrected ! yes missed the acronym VT there... never bought vapour trails and sounds like I shouldnt.

I agree with the latest recording, I just love the mix of music from the acoustic to the instrumentals especially the bluesy track 7 !:thmbsp:

lets hope they release another like it in a shorter period of time !

I hope you're right and their next release comes sooner than later.

Also, do get Vapor Trails and do judge for yourself.:yes:

Paul

[BroonsBane]

Rush rocking in the Marshall Islands, sweet!! :thmbsp:

[Permanent Waves]

True about the chart ratings for Rush being high in the first week partly because of years or decades long fans buying them, but it is still amazing because according to Billboard that is higher than any of their albums from 1984 on except for Roll The Bones (#3) and Counterparts (#2) (both of which were very popular when I was in high school, at least popular for Rush). And SnA debuted at #3, not peaked. VT, in comparison, only reached #6, Test For Echo #5, and even the great Moving Pictures itself only reached #3 (according to what I can find on it).

Also, let's face it, a lot of Rush fans from the 70's and early 80's have ditched them in the last 10, 15, or even 20+ years as they have gotten into their 30's, 40's, and 50's. I can't tell you how many times I've been out wearing a Rush shirt (starting when I was 15, I'm 30 now) and an older guy (looking to be in his 40's or 50's now and in his 30's back when I was 15) has commented on it and said "great band, nice shirt" but when I said thanks and told them about their lastest album and/or tour they almost always are surprised to hear they were still around and had a new album out or where still touring (and this has been my experience since '93 on with the older fans, from, again, their 30's back then to now in their 40's and 50's). I have not met one older fan who has commented on my Rush shirt(s) and then asked if I was going to see them on an upcoming tour or if I had got their latest album. For all they know Rush quit sometime in the late 80's (when they quit Rush upon entering their 30's or 40's) until I mention their newest album/tour. :D

So what I'm saying is that this album did not debut at #3 because of the small amount of Rush fans who have gone out to get every new album right when it came out since the late 70's or early 80's: there simply is not enough of them around anymore (and where their ever?)! Many who were big Rush fans from that time felt upon entering their 30's or 40's that they had "outgrown" or were "too old" for rock n' roll, and others quit Rush when they got into the synths and lighter pop type rock (some stopped with Signals, other's think Power Windows was their last great album, and others still quit them after Roll The Bones as it was too "poppy") as they felt Rush was getting too mellow or soft. Sure there are some hardcore lifetime Rush fans that have gotten every new Rush album and gone to see them on every tour since they have got into them whether that be the 70's, 80's, or 90's (I'm one of those! :thmbsp:) but there are lots of other fans that may have been very into Rush but yet drifted away from them (and the rock n roll of their youth in general) years or decades ago.

This album debuted high and is selling well not just due to older loyal Rush fans going out and buying it, but also the younger newer fans who are just getting into Rush. In fact, many dads who have gotten their sons into Rush are not the ones who have been buying the new Rush albums over the past decade, their sons are! The torch has been passed; Rush has become a generational band! :D

Anyway, that's mho on all of this.

PS: According the interviews I've heard and read, Rush really enjoyed the processes of making this album, maybe more than they ever have in the past, and are very eager to work with the producer Nick R. again. HOWEVER, they will be on tour all this summer and fall until a break for the Holiday season and then will probably do a second leg of the tour, so that takes us into the Spring of '08 and then I'm sure they want some time off to recuperate and be with their families (as due to Neil's losses a decade ago they are being sure not to neglect them in favor of work as they have had to and done in the past). So we are looking at least at the Fall of '08 for any real formal writing sessions to start (unless they write on the road during their touring, something they haven't done in about 20 years, or in their "off" time during the '07 Holiday break and '08 summer break, which I doubt) and possibly not until the spring/summer/fall of '09, or even '10 if they take their time. If I had to bet, I'd say another Rush album wouldn't be out until at the earliest the Fall of '09 and more probably sometime in '10 or even '11. Hell, they could even wait until 2012 just for fun and make it their last album as they will be almost 60 by then. Or perhaps this is their last album. Either way I don't see them touring in their 60's, their music is much too intense and fast paced for that.

Ok, sorry about the long post! Man can I blab on and on about Rush! :blah:

[Dusty Chalk]

...others will hear something that is off but not be bothered by it, and others will not even be able to listen to it. Many who have VT can not understand why so many of us think it has a bad recording/production/sound at all. Perhaps their hearing or equipment isn't as sensitive, or perhaps they're just not as picky as those who over analyze their music's recording to death to the point of missing out on the music itself because of some perceived flaw(s) within it of how it strays from how they think it should sound. I suspect many of them are numbed to inferior audio by listening exclusively to inferior audio. Personally, the only inferior audio equipment I own is in my car, and that's only due to the amount of road and engine noise -- I can still hear how bad VT is recorded, so I fall into the camp that finds it unlistenable. I can't listen to it, despite knowing it's good music.

And remastering it won't help -- they peaked out the A/D converters even on the individual tracks, not just at the mastering level. They'd have to re-record it, at this point. Yes, someone very meticulous could go through the entire recording and "clean it up", but (a) we don't really have that sort of technology yet, not at the non-highly-specialized professional level yet, and (b) why? It's their second-to-last album, they should still be able to re-record it.

[Permanent Waves]

Two quick posts:

Poohsan, you lucky bastard for getting to see them so many times live and be a fan for so long! :D I wish I'd been born earlier, I would have done the same. I'm just glad I got into when I did and have seen them in concert 5 times (6th will be this summer, and hopefully 7th if they come back around in '08). Congrats on being a true and loyal Rush fan for partically their whole career! :thmbsp:

About VT: according to this it HAS been remastered, but will not be released anytime soon: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/VTnews.htm#remaster

I remember Alex or Ged saying they couldn't or wouldn't go back and re record VT because many parts of the songs were done on the first take from jam sessions and not re recorded later because the first take had some sort of "raw and instaneous essence" in it that could not be produced again. They felt that it was perfect that one and only time and if they tried to reproduce it later (whether now or during the VT recording systems) it would lose the passion it had. So instead we are stuck with a virtually unlistenable cd. :rolleyes:

Anyway, that link contains a lot of info on the whole VT recording/mastering mess.

PS: SnA is #1 on the billboard top rock albums! :thmbsp:

[BroonsBane]

Oh man, Rush in the 70's! Hemispheres and A Farewell to Kings I got to see locally, they haven't been back since so I have to travel to see them. St. Paul Minnesota in September!!!

[Dusty Chalk]

I remember Alex or Ged saying they couldn't or wouldn't go back and re record VT because many parts of the songs were done on the first take ...Well then, I think a nice compromise would be for them to perform the entire album for the next live album.

The problem is, remastering will not fix it. You can see from screenshots that there's some levels that were maxed out that are not maxed out to 16 bits (I.E. they're not maxed out on the CD). That means they're maxed out on the multitrack, which means, shy of re-recording it, there's no way to fix it.

Don't get me wrong -- remastering it (or, in sh.tv terminology, remixing it) would improve things, and it should still be done, it just won't fix it completely.

[Tripqzon]

"About VT: according to this it HAS been remastered, but will not be released anytime soon: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/VTnews.htm#remaster"

Does the band have any control over whether the re master should be released or are the record companies really that powerful? That's total BS in my book. :thumbsdn:

Paul

[BroonsBane]

If they took PayPal I'd be in business, they don't so I'm going to be SOL :tears: :tears: :tears:

[ponderbear]

Some older fans jumped ship after moving pictures- I've been a rush fan since the release of 2112 (I was a mere 12 at the time) and was right there with them until Signals- just too many digital keyboards for my enjoyment. And I loves me some keyboards- I go for vintage yes too, but i wasn't too crazy about the "new" key sound on Relayer (got used to it though).

Anyway, regarding Snakes and Arrows- agreed, the general compression is no doubt for the benefit of radio. The quieter passages are beautifully detailed. In defense of the compression, a lot of rock has been done this way and its nice to hear the whole band at the same time that Alex is rocking away. And Alex is the real standout on this album, and I am so glad. He is an excellent acoustic player and hearing so much of it on this album is real treat. At the same time there is a lot of rock here, otherwise I would drop it like a hot potato and go back into the woods.

I do love this album, and I also admit I'm returning to the band after not listening to their new stuff for quite some time. All the old thrill is in these songs. A lot of classic Rush riffs and rhythm changes but it's more smoothly integrated then ever. Workin' them angels is a slice of Rush heaven- The intro sounds like it could have been on a Hemispheres written by a more mature Rush. What perfect lyrical material for these guys, too. I feel like there is a little redemption for Neil, maybe, in this album. The heady Ayn Rand days are over, but I'm glad to see his concern is always for the individual, whether that individual can attain dizzying Randesque glory or not. I Love hearing Alex tearing through this material. The keyboards are there, but not much, thank goodness. Never one to shy from a heart-rending geddy scream, l think he's singing better than ever. He's got more a lot more control nowadays.

All in all, I am really happy these guys are returning to form. I think it's an especially interesting time for old rockers. McCartney's Memory Almost Full is damn good. Neil Y. is showing people he can still deliver, too. And it really gives me some hope to hear people get out there and buy albums when the classic acts come out with something. It's markedly different than the music of today's generation, who have been proven by market research to not have much in the way of group loyalty. I guess it goes without saying how high-quality the new bands are, then.

[Tripqzon]

Ponderbear,

I agree about the digitization of there music in the 90's. It was a definite change in their style. I admit I did listen less in that period but never gave up on the band. I still enjoyed "Roll The Bones", "Counterparts" and "Test For Echo" very much. Those were very digital and had lots of keyboard imo. But I feel that the talent of the musicians never faded. It just took on a new direction. SnA is going back in the direction of their roots. :yes:

Paul

[Permanent Waves]

Thread revived, huh? Ok, I can always talk Rush! :D

I love what you had to say about SnA Ponderbear. It blends Alex's incredible acoustic playing with his hard rock edge into a smooth and textural melodic interplay that's niether too soft or mellow, nor too harsh or simple. I also agree that Neil's lyrics are excellent on this one (there is virtually no cheesyness that he has sometimes suffered from), and that Geddy's voice has matured nicely: it is impassioned, yet controlled and even a bit soulful: very emotional.

What I object to, both with you and Trip, :D is that this album is going back to their roots. I feel they did that way back with Counterparts, and even Roll The Bones sounds very much to me like a Moving Pictures II (seriously, at least soundwise, Roll The Bones is almost as heavy as Moving Pictures, and much of the song writing seems similar...but then Roll The Bones is among my favorite Rush albums). Test For Echo was also fairly "rockin" and Vapor Trails? My Ged, that thing's a monster, imo by far the heaviest material they ever produced.

I have to say that listening to albums like Fly By Night, 2112, Farewell, and Hemispheres and then Counterparts, Vapor Trails, and SnA, that the latter 3 are the harder rocking and heavier albums. In fact, those earlier albums sound a little anemic in comparison. They're kind of like 80's Iron Maiden: they have the screaming/wailing metal guitars and intense solo's and jams which make them appear as very loud and "metalesque", but the sound is actually thin, it's not deep and textured and bass heavy like in the last 3 Rush albums I've mentioned.

All just mho of course, and I love every stage of Rush's output and I'm not saying that any are better or worse than any other (in fact, that's what's great about Rush: you have so much variety and every album is great in it's own way, sometimes I feel like rocking out to 2112, Moving Pictures, Counterparts, or Vapor Trails, other times I feel like the dark synths of Grace Under Pressure or the warm synths of Signals, other times like the lighter and more mellow Hold Your Fire or Presto, and still other times like the more poppy Roll The Bones or Permanent Waves.) I would say their "lightest" period was from Hold Your Fire to Roll The Bones though, I wouldn't say it would include Counterparts, Test, or Vapor Trails. Even Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves are a bit easy or soft in comparison to at least Counterparts or Vapor Trails and now SnA.

Anyway, who's seen them on this tour yet, and who is going to? I will on August. 24, my 6th Rush concert! :banana: I only wish it was indoor as that is where I think they sound the best.

[SkyLounger]

Been a Rush fan for a very long time but never got a chance to go and see them live...

Tomorrow night will be a first for me in Montreal.... just can't wait!!!

I've been looking at the Rush in Rio DVD for the last seven months...(since my wife offered it to me for Valentine's day, how cool is she?)

Anyway, give me any Rush, anytime, it's always good... It's my story and I stick to it!

[BroonsBane]

Anyway, give me any Rush, anytime, it's always good... It's my story and I stick to it!

I couldn't agree more! :thmbsp:

[rush2112guy]

These guys have been my fav band since 1974, when their self titled album came out. 2112 and Hemispheres are my two favorites I have seen them six times and I am going to take my youngest son to see them the next time they come to St. Louis. He thinks they are great also, and he is only 11.He should have a lot of fun!

[BroonsBane]

These guys have been my fav band since 1974, when their self titled album came out. 2112 and Hemispheres are my two favorites I have seen them six times and I am going to take my youngest son to see them the next time they come to St. Louis. He thinks they are great also, and he is only 11.He should have a lot of fun!

If I had a son or daughter they'd love Rush too :thmbsp:

[Edriz]

I'm with Rush2112guy. Can anyone remember the original drummer? Bet he's kicking himself. Let's face it though, even a bad Rush album is sheer Genious!!.

I can't even count how many Rush shows I've been to. I think the only tour I missed was Counterparts. For some reason they haven't played in my area since Roll The Bones. I've had to Travel to either Rochester or Buffalo. These days I won't travel that far to see too many bands but Rush is one of them.

Ed

[beans]

Artist: Rush
Title: Snake and Arrows
Year: 2007
Record Label: Atlanta/Wea
Genre: Rock
... I love that there lyrics are not about hatred, foul language and womanizing. You know, the typical stuff you hear these days.:thumbsdn:

I give this cd a 6 out of 10 for sound quality and a 10 out of 10 for content.

Paul

It may not be sheer hatred but the whole thing is based on a negative theme against religious establishment. I will not enter into a discussion of religion here, but you made the original point and I only wanted to counter you slightly. I own the album, have enjoyed it, and I agree with some of Peart's expressions. We also saw the tour when it came here and had a great time. But it is what it is.

[Permanent Waves]

It may not be sheer hatred but the whole thing is based on a negative theme against religious establishment. I will not enter into a discussion of religion here, but you made the original point and I only wanted to counter you slightly. I own the album, have enjoyed it, and I agree with some of Peart's expressions. We also saw the tour when it came here and had a great time. But it is what it is.

I don't think the whole album is solely concerned with anti-religious thought. This is the main thrust or inspiration for the album (as Neil has said) but there are many songs that are about other topics than religion, and even the ones that are, despite some specific lyrics, also have many different interpretations and applications as Rush (and Neil) have always said they have tried to do with their lyrics. They think it's wonderful that someone will think a lyric or song is about something they never even thought of, because they want others to interpret them on their own; they don't want to merely preach anything and want people to think individually.

Here's my brief take on the songs (omitting the instrumentals) and what they mean for instance:

Far Cry - About the state of the world not being as it should and how this fact can be overwhelming yet we must "get back on" and endure it.

Armor and Sword - Can very much be interpreted as an anti-religious song, and this is how they meant it, however, it need not be. Words like "heaven" and "belief" and even "god" need not be taken literally. I see a more universal understanding of this song as merely saying that any beliefs we hold dear and to be true that we use as our protection and courage to face the challenges we must, may be nothing more than illusions or delusions, and thus actually harmful and counter productive. But these can be personal (good will triumph, there is justice, I will survive, etc.) and have nothing to do with religion. They could also just as easily be about any absolutist belief system, like the dogmatic fanaticism those adhering to a totalitarian ideology of the nation state exhibit (this I call secular religion, it is political, and need not to reference the transcendent, it only needs a belief in an infallible leader and system of thought), or that whatever side you are on is right and just, the end, about practically any issue.

Workin' Them Angels - Again, despite the word "angels", all this song is meant to convey is the risks we all have taken, and when it seemed that we should have had disastrous consequences from them, we got away with what we did instead. That's it. Neil does not (and no other member of Rush I'm sure), believe in the actual existence of angels, it is just a metaphor.

The Larger Bowl - About the horrible inequality that is prevalent over much of the world's population..."such a lot of pain on the earth" indeed.

Spindrift - Neil described it as a lover's quarrel, but it can be taken as an East vs. West conflict. However the lyrics are pretty vague and poetic.

The Way the Wind Blows - 0k, this one is a pretty direct attack on religion. However, it need not be viewed as an attack on ALL religion, just the most fundamental, absolutist, intolerant, and yes, dangerous, irrational kind that has, does, and will oppose and undermine man's progress to create a more humane, free, less painful, and moral world. I find it hard to argue with attacks against this brand of belief. It's also about the "tyranny of the majority" as J.S. Mill put it: how those who resist and don't believe what most everyone else does can not shape or change their culture, and indeed will themselves be influenced by it even if they don't agree with much of it. This need not be about religion though, it could be about something as pedestrian as over consumption and consumerism or as ignorant as racism and homophobia.

Faithless - Not so much an attack on religion (although the lyrics "empty vessels" and "fools and thieves" are not exactly non confrontational, however Neil is referencing the many charlatans of many stripes here I'm sure, from snake oil and psuedo-medicine/science peddlers to faith healers and cultists), but more of a statement of how someone without religion views himself and his struggles in a largely religious world and society as well as ultimately finds direction, purpose, and meaning in a godless world (very easy actually). It's about how the faithless are a stranger in their own culture and feel the need to stay "in the closet" about their nonreligious life and beliefs. It is merely an explicit announcement of Neil's (and I think all of Rush's) non belief (about time! lol). That's as non offensive as a religious person's statement of belief.

Bravest Face - A song of cynicism I believe. How anything we view good also inevitably, invariably, has a dark side to it, and how we must have the courage to realize and confront this stark reality.

Good News First - Uh, not real sure about this one. I think it's pessimistic in that it assumes that in the end the bad news or reality will overpower the good news or reality.

We Hold On - Just a song about the daily struggles we all must face and deal with. A message of endurance in the face of adversity (like Marathon?).

So, besides 3 songs, where is all the hatred and negative attacks on religion you speak of? And even in those 3 songs...where is it? Largely Armor and Sword is about a particular vein of religious thought (or non thought), The Way The Wind Blows is the same, and Faithless is a statement about what it means to be nonreligious in a mostly religious world (somewhat...there are many, many more nonbelievers out there then is generally known, and also very weak or unconcerned believers). I find none of them mean spirited in the least. (But then I have read Nietzsche's Antichrist lol).

Also, why the double standard? Or, why do you feel the need to post? If a christian or any other religious band (or serious religious/political organization) attacks non believers, it's fine, and definitely not negative (although it certainly is: what is more negative than blatantly, in much harsher terms most of the time, putting down other people's beliefs and calling them "fools" "wicked" or "hell bound?). But don't dare let a rock band criticize only certain aspects of religious belief, that is NEGATIVE, HATEFUL, MEAN SPIRITED, WRONG, etc. It cannot be constructive, it is only the tearing down of institutions and replacing them with nothing, an existential void. Well this is entirely untrue, humanistic thought has given us many of the luxuries we now enjoy (from medical technology to individual rights and freedoms), but this is far too large of a topic to deal with here.

Anyway, I do not want to discuss religion here (I use the Dawkins or Harris websites for that, and not often), nor start a flame war (I hope I have come across as non offensive), I just wanted to discuss my view of the lyrical content of this album and am just trying to point out that it is hardly a sustained, vitriolic, anti religious polemic against all and every religion and type or strength of belief. It is actually very tame and has universal themes dealing with many different human experiences in every song that are not in the least religious, and is somewhat lyrically ambiguous and thus open to many interpretations, as I have tried to show.

And yes, before you ask (and I know you'll wonder) I am an atheist, have been for life, not afraid to admit it, am in fact proud of it (for it is a wonderful thing to be), though I never push my beliefs on anyone, only discuss them if I'm asked, and I NEVER, EVER judge a person merely by what he or she happens to believe about his or her metaphysical fate or ultimate purpose for existence. How simplistic is that? How conceited, self righteous, and intolerant as well. I believe; no, I KNOW that people are more than just a sum of their beliefs, they are a mix of good and bad no matter what they may think about their ultimate destiny, place in the universe, or what the true structure of the world or reality consists of: material/physical or immaterial/spiritual.

So I mean no offense, and may Rush have many more years of albums and tours! :thmbsp: (Can't wait for the SnA DVD, and the Retrospective 3 should be interesting as well).

Btw, how did this thread get revived? :D

[Tripqzon]

Btw, how did this thread get revived? :D

:dunno:

[Bluesbassplayer]

I think Vapor Trails is for a die hard fan, to me like Power Windows, ok - but not their best work. For me Snake and Arrows is a notch higher, a good solid Rush CD. I have been listening to it analytically, while writing this. Seems they mixed Geddy's vocals pretty similar to other albums. His bass sounds like Geddy for sure. Alex, mixed liked we are used to. You know what I am noticing - I would like to hear Neal a little more acoustic, raw, kind of like how you might mic/record a jazz or blues drummer. There seems to be a lot missing there of the acoustic sound of the drums. Maybe that would make it too dynamic, but I want to hear more of the nuances of his playing. I am having trouble putting it in words - but to me something is missing on the drums, not the player - just how it was recorded/processed. Some of its magic/life is hidden to my ears.

[DaWoofer]

That last line is sure to bring comments like, "time to upgrade your cd player."

[Bluesbassplayer]

I am using a Benchmark Dac1, I need to update my signature!