RUSH "Snakes And Arrows" [Archive] - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

Permanent Waves

05-09-2007, 02:08 AM

You guys are crazy! :p:

Yes this album does have a bit of clipping and is a little dense, but it is much better recorded than VT! Dare I say that is sounds fresh, dynamic, open, sharp, clear, detailed and organic? Yes I do! :D

I for one can enjoy it!

10/10 for album content, 8/10 for sound quality.

And as I addressed in a different thread, there is nothing wrong with Rush's recording for the most part on any of their albums save VT. Nothing that is unless you are overly picky and as Rush would say "Seeing the trees instead of the forest." No offense fellow fans, but it is just rock, not classical, what do you expect? Every Rush album is entirely listenable and some are even of very good quality, mastered or not (besides VT). This will sound condenscending and I don't mean it to be, but I really feel sorry for anyone who misses out on any band's great music because he or she is too concerned about an albums lack of perfect pure fidelity sound to be able to enjoy the content. I mean I have even managed to immensely enjoy VT! Imagine that! :rolleyes: But then if the only way I was able to listen to Rush was by having someone put the phone up to their boombox over a long distance crackly connection I would still listen to them! :screwy:

Quit being overly (anal)ytical and just rock out to a great brand new Rush album made 30 odd years after they started that is as good as anything they've ever done! :rockon:

PS: Rush has never been very concerned about getting radio airplay and they don't expect it, and I have some good quality mp3's of SnA that pale compared to the cd version. Wait untill I get the DVD-A version!

PPS: I don't know where you get your cd's, but I paid $10 at Circuit City for this one.

Dusty Chalk

05-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Yes, looking at the waveform, it is obviously quite maximized, but I don't find it near as unlistenable as Vapor Trails. Too loud? Turn it down! But...I mean, c'mon, it's rock and roll, it should be loud!

Permanent Waves

05-09-2007, 03:10 PM

I listened to both VT and SnA back to back and it was like night and day. VT is bad, SnA is at least a good recording.

And again Rush has always been known for having well recorded and produced albums, I really don't understand the criticism.

Anyway, SnA is a fantastic album that is among their best and gets better with every listen. I highly recommend getting it: even if you don't like it or can't enjoy it's sound quality for some reason, what the hell, just trade it in to a used cd store, it's only $10-$15 anyway!

BroonsBane

05-10-2007, 08:14 AM

Anyway, SnA is a fantastic album that is among their best and gets better with every listen. I highly recommend getting it:

I couldn't agree more. Don't miss out on this superb album :guitar:

Tripqzon

05-10-2007, 06:46 PM

exracer

05-12-2007, 01:44 PM

Don't get me wrong. I've listened to SNA a number of times and really love it. It is fantastic as I've come to know of Rush.

I highly recommend it to any Rush fan.:yes: :yes:

In fact, when I purchased it the clerk at the local Bull Moose store told me it was selling like hotcakes and he asked me if he should get it. I told him yes. If he likes Rush he would not regret it.

As far as VT, yes the recording quality is piss poor to say the least, but it still rocks.

Hopefully this clears my position on this excellent new disc.

BUY IY NOW!!!!

Paul

piss poor is a little extreme, me thinks. Ill go one higher than your rating and give it a 7/10 for recording quality. Yes it is a recording meant to play on the airwaves somewhat, but it is definitely better than alot of popular rock recordings lately, such as Velvet Revolver, now that is piss poor ! At least the cymbals on the Snakes and Arrows album sound like cymbals!

Permanent Waves

05-12-2007, 04:19 PM

piss poor is a little extreme, me thinks. Ill go one higher than your rating and give it a 7/10 for recording quality. Yes it is a recording meant to play on the airwaves somewhat, but it is definitely better than alot of popular rock recordings lately, such as Velvet Revolver, now that is piss poor ! At least the cymbals on the Snakes and Arrows album sound like cymbals!

He meant the recording on "VT" which stands for Rush's 2002 release "Vapor Trails" is very poor, and he is totally correct: the recording on that album is bad and demonstrably flawed, and has been shown as such by technical evaluations of it and even the band admitting there were problems in the final product (clipping, distortion, and compression).

In fact, SnA sounds so much better compared to VT it's amazing. I have listened to both shuffled together and it is like night and day. Again, I give SnA an 8/10 for recording and a 10/10 for content. Either way it won't dissapoint, it's a fantastic album, give it a listen! :thmbsp:

PS: I apologize if I gave offense to anyone with my earlier postings here, I was being sarcastic and joking, all in good spirit, but in text form it may not have come off as that.

PPS: SnA has debuted at #3 on the Billboard charts! Not bad for a bunch of mid 50 year olds who have been together for 30+ years! :D

Enjoy this great new album Rush fans and see you on the tour! :D

Tripqzon

05-12-2007, 05:03 PM

exracer

05-13-2007, 09:28 AM

I did indeed mean that Vapor Trails is a piss poor recording. And yes there are worse recordings.
As I stated in my previous post I highly recommend SnA to any Rush fan.

Paul

I stand corrected ! yes missed the acronym VT there... never bought vapour trails and sounds like I shouldnt.

I agree with the latest recording, I just love the mix of music from the acoustic to the instrumentals especially the bluesy track 7 !:thmbsp:

lets hope they release another like it in a shorter period of time !

BroonsBane

05-13-2007, 09:35 AM

I stand corrected ! yes missed the acronym VT there... never bought vapour trails and sounds like I shouldnt.

No, you should buy VT despite its shortcomings, there is some awesome music on that album. Don't miss out :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

05-13-2007, 04:49 PM

No, you should buy VT despite its shortcomings, there is some awesome music on that album. Don't miss out :thmbsp:

Agreed, VT is a fantastic album that I have throughly enjoyed despite it's bad recording, I think it's one of their best. :thmbsp: If they ever remaster it be sure to pick it up, and you may want to get it used anyway: I mean for $7 or so at a used cd store it would be worth the risk. :yes:

It all comes down to how sensitive you are to picking up on the flaws in the sound of any album from any band. 10 people will listen to the same album and some will hear nothing wrong, others will hear something that is off but not be bothered by it, and others will not even be able to listen to it. Many who have VT can not understand why so many of us think it has a bad recording/production/sound at all. Perhaps their hearing or equipment isn't as sensitive, or perhaps they're just not as picky as those who over analyze their music's recording to death to the point of missing out on the music itself because of some perceived flaw(s) within it of how it strays from how they think it should sound. :D

Don't miss out on any band's album or music you are interested in due to the opinions of others, simply get it and judge for yourself! :thmbsp:

Tripqzon

05-13-2007, 07:26 PM

I stand corrected ! yes missed the acronym VT there... never bought vapour trails and sounds like I shouldnt.

I agree with the latest recording, I just love the mix of music from the acoustic to the instrumentals especially the bluesy track 7 !:thmbsp:

lets hope they release another like it in a shorter period of time !

I hope you're right and their next release comes sooner than later.

Also, do get Vapor Trails and do judge for yourself.:yes:

Paul

BroonsBane

05-13-2007, 09:34 PM

Rush rocking in the Marshall Islands, sweet!! :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

05-13-2007, 10:57 PM

True about the chart ratings for Rush being high in the first week partly because of years or decades long fans buying them, but it is still amazing because according to Billboard that is higher than any of their albums from 1984 on except for Roll The Bones (#3) and Counterparts (#2) (both of which were very popular when I was in high school, at least popular for Rush). And SnA debuted at #3, not peaked. VT, in comparison, only reached #6, Test For Echo #5, and even the great Moving Pictures itself only reached #3 (according to what I can find on it).

Also, let's face it, a lot of Rush fans from the 70's and early 80's have ditched them in the last 10, 15, or even 20+ years as they have gotten into their 30's, 40's, and 50's. I can't tell you how many times I've been out wearing a Rush shirt (starting when I was 15, I'm 30 now) and an older guy (looking to be in his 40's or 50's now and in his 30's back when I was 15) has commented on it and said "great band, nice shirt" but when I said thanks and told them about their lastest album and/or tour they almost always are surprised to hear they were still around and had a new album out or where still touring (and this has been my experience since '93 on with the older fans, from, again, their 30's back then to now in their 40's and 50's). I have not met one older fan who has commented on my Rush shirt(s) and then asked if I was going to see them on an upcoming tour or if I had got their latest album. For all they know Rush quit sometime in the late 80's (when they quit Rush upon entering their 30's or 40's) until I mention their newest album/tour. :D

So what I'm saying is that this album did not debut at #3 because of the small amount of Rush fans who have gone out to get every new album right when it came out since the late 70's or early 80's: there simply is not enough of them around anymore (and where their ever?)! Many who were big Rush fans from that time felt upon entering their 30's or 40's that they had "outgrown" or were "too old" for rock n' roll, and others quit Rush when they got into the synths and lighter pop type rock (some stopped with Signals, other's think Power Windows was their last great album, and others still quit them after Roll The Bones as it was too "poppy") as they felt Rush was getting too mellow or soft. Sure there are some hardcore lifetime Rush fans that have gotten every new Rush album and gone to see them on every tour since they have got into them whether that be the 70's, 80's, or 90's (I'm one of those! :thmbsp:) but there are lots of other fans that may have been very into Rush but yet drifted away from them (and the rock n roll of their youth in general) years or decades ago.

This album debuted high and is selling well not just due to older loyal Rush fans going out and buying it, but also the younger newer fans who are just getting into Rush. In fact, many dads who have gotten their sons into Rush are not the ones who have been buying the new Rush albums over the past decade, their sons are! The torch has been passed; Rush has become a generational band! :D

Anyway, that's mho on all of this.

PS: According the interviews I've heard and read, Rush really enjoyed the processes of making this album, maybe more than they ever have in the past, and are very eager to work with the producer Nick R. again. HOWEVER, they will be on tour all this summer and fall until a break for the Holiday season and then will probably do a second leg of the tour, so that takes us into the Spring of '08 and then I'm sure they want some time off to recuperate and be with their families (as due to Neil's losses a decade ago they are being sure not to neglect them in favor of work as they have had to and done in the past). So we are looking at least at the Fall of '08 for any real formal writing sessions to start (unless they write on the road during their touring, something they haven't done in about 20 years, or in their "off" time during the '07 Holiday break and '08 summer break, which I doubt) and possibly not until the spring/summer/fall of '09, or even '10 if they take their time. If I had to bet, I'd say another Rush album wouldn't be out until at the earliest the Fall of '09 and more probably sometime in '10 or even '11. Hell, they could even wait until 2012 just for fun and make it their last album as they will be almost 60 by then. Or perhaps this is their last album. Either way I don't see them touring in their 60's, their music is much too intense and fast paced for that.

Ok, sorry about the long post! Man can I blab on and on about Rush! :blah:

Dusty Chalk

05-14-2007, 04:42 PM

...others will hear something that is off but not be bothered by it, and others will not even be able to listen to it. Many who have VT can not understand why so many of us think it has a bad recording/production/sound at all. Perhaps their hearing or equipment isn't as sensitive, or perhaps they're just not as picky as those who over analyze their music's recording to death to the point of missing out on the music itself because of some perceived flaw(s) within it of how it strays from how they think it should sound. I suspect many of them are numbed to inferior audio by listening exclusively to inferior audio. Personally, the only inferior audio equipment I own is in my car, and that's only due to the amount of road and engine noise -- I can still hear how bad VT is recorded, so I fall into the camp that finds it unlistenable. I can't listen to it, despite knowing it's good music.

And remastering it won't help -- they peaked out the A/D converters even on the individual tracks, not just at the mastering level. They'd have to re-record it, at this point. Yes, someone very meticulous could go through the entire recording and "clean it up", but (a) we don't really have that sort of technology yet, not at the non-highly-specialized professional level yet, and (b) why? It's their second-to-last album, they should still be able to re-record it.

Permanent Waves

05-14-2007, 08:42 PM

Two quick posts:

Poohsan, you lucky bastard for getting to see them so many times live and be a fan for so long! :D I wish I'd been born earlier, I would have done the same. I'm just glad I got into when I did and have seen them in concert 5 times (6th will be this summer, and hopefully 7th if they come back around in '08). Congrats on being a true and loyal Rush fan for partically their whole career! :thmbsp:

About VT: according to this it HAS been remastered, but will not be released anytime soon: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/VTnews.htm#remaster

I remember Alex or Ged saying they couldn't or wouldn't go back and re record VT because many parts of the songs were done on the first take from jam sessions and not re recorded later because the first take had some sort of "raw and instaneous essence" in it that could not be produced again. They felt that it was perfect that one and only time and if they tried to reproduce it later (whether now or during the VT recording systems) it would lose the passion it had. So instead we are stuck with a virtually unlistenable cd. :rolleyes:

Anyway, that link contains a lot of info on the whole VT recording/mastering mess.

PS: SnA is #1 on the billboard top rock albums! :thmbsp:

BroonsBane

05-14-2007, 09:39 PM

Oh man, Rush in the 70's! Hemispheres and A Farewell to Kings I got to see locally, they haven't been back since so I have to travel to see them. St. Paul Minnesota in September!!!

Dusty Chalk

05-14-2007, 10:50 PM

I remember Alex or Ged saying they couldn't or wouldn't go back and re record VT because many parts of the songs were done on the first take ...Well then, I think a nice compromise would be for them to perform the entire album for the next live album.

The problem is, remastering will not fix it. You can see from screenshots that there's some levels that were maxed out that are not maxed out to 16 bits (I.E. they're not maxed out on the CD). That means they're maxed out on the multitrack, which means, shy of re-recording it, there's no way to fix it.

Don't get me wrong -- remastering it (or, in sh.tv terminology, remixing it) would improve things, and it should still be done, it just won't fix it completely.

Tripqzon

05-15-2007, 05:48 AM

"About VT: according to this it HAS been remastered, but will not be released anytime soon: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/VTnews.htm#remaster"

Does the band have any control over whether the re master should be released or are the record companies really that powerful? That's total BS in my book. :thumbsdn:

Paul

BroonsBane

05-15-2007, 06:01 PM

If they took PayPal I'd be in business, they don't so I'm going to be SOL :tears: :tears: :tears:

ponderbear

07-04-2007, 07:17 AM

Some older fans jumped ship after moving pictures- I've been a rush fan since the release of 2112 (I was a mere 12 at the time) and was right there with them until Signals- just too many digital keyboards for my enjoyment. And I loves me some keyboards- I go for vintage yes too, but i wasn't too crazy about the "new" key sound on Relayer (got used to it though).

Anyway, regarding Snakes and Arrows- agreed, the general compression is no doubt for the benefit of radio. The quieter passages are beautifully detailed. In defense of the compression, a lot of rock has been done this way and its nice to hear the whole band at the same time that Alex is rocking away. And Alex is the real standout on this album, and I am so glad. He is an excellent acoustic player and hearing so much of it on this album is real treat. At the same time there is a lot of rock here, otherwise I would drop it like a hot potato and go back into the woods.

I do love this album, and I also admit I'm returning to the band after not listening to their new stuff for quite some time. All the old thrill is in these songs. A lot of classic Rush riffs and rhythm changes but it's more smoothly integrated then ever. Workin' them angels is a slice of Rush heaven- The intro sounds like it could have been on a Hemispheres written by a more mature Rush. What perfect lyrical material for these guys, too. I feel like there is a little redemption for Neil, maybe, in this album. The heady Ayn Rand days are over, but I'm glad to see his concern is always for the individual, whether that individual can attain dizzying Randesque glory or not. I Love hearing Alex tearing through this material. The keyboards are there, but not much, thank goodness. Never one to shy from a heart-rending geddy scream, l think he's singing better than ever. He's got more a lot more control nowadays.

All in all, I am really happy these guys are returning to form. I think it's an especially interesting time for old rockers. McCartney's Memory Almost Full is damn good. Neil Y. is showing people he can still deliver, too. And it really gives me some hope to hear people get out there and buy albums when the classic acts come out with something. It's markedly different than the music of today's generation, who have been proven by market research to not have much in the way of group loyalty. I guess it goes without saying how high-quality the new bands are, then.

Tripqzon

07-04-2007, 09:14 AM

Ponderbear,

I agree about the digitization of there music in the 90's. It was a definite change in their style. I admit I did listen less in that period but never gave up on the band. I still enjoyed "Roll The Bones", "Counterparts" and "Test For Echo" very much. Those were very digital and had lots of keyboard imo. But I feel that the talent of the musicians never faded. It just took on a new direction. SnA is going back in the direction of their roots. :yes:

Paul

Permanent Waves

07-10-2007, 01:10 AM

Thread revived, huh? Ok, I can always talk Rush! :D

I love what you had to say about SnA Ponderbear. It blends Alex's incredible acoustic playing with his hard rock edge into a smooth and textural melodic interplay that's niether too soft or mellow, nor too harsh or simple. I also agree that Neil's lyrics are excellent on this one (there is virtually no cheesyness that he has sometimes suffered from), and that Geddy's voice has matured nicely: it is impassioned, yet controlled and even a bit soulful: very emotional.

What I object to, both with you and Trip, :D is that this album is going back to their roots. I feel they did that way back with Counterparts, and even Roll The Bones sounds very much to me like a Moving Pictures II (seriously, at least soundwise, Roll The Bones is almost as heavy as Moving Pictures, and much of the song writing seems similar...but then Roll The Bones is among my favorite Rush albums). Test For Echo was also fairly "rockin" and Vapor Trails? My Ged, that thing's a monster, imo by far the heaviest material they ever produced.

I have to say that listening to albums like Fly By Night, 2112, Farewell, and Hemispheres and then Counterparts, Vapor Trails, and SnA, that the latter 3 are the harder rocking and heavier albums. In fact, those earlier albums sound a little anemic in comparison. They're kind of like 80's Iron Maiden: they have the screaming/wailing metal guitars and intense solo's and jams which make them appear as very loud and "metalesque", but the sound is actually thin, it's not deep and textured and bass heavy like in the last 3 Rush albums I've mentioned.

All just mho of course, and I love every stage of Rush's output and I'm not saying that any are better or worse than any other (in fact, that's what's great about Rush: you have so much variety and every album is great in it's own way, sometimes I feel like rocking out to 2112, Moving Pictures, Counterparts, or Vapor Trails, other times I feel like the dark synths of Grace Under Pressure or the warm synths of Signals, other times like the lighter and more mellow Hold Your Fire or Presto, and still other times like the more poppy Roll The Bones or Permanent Waves.) I would say their "lightest" period was from Hold Your Fire to Roll The Bones though, I wouldn't say it would include Counterparts, Test, or Vapor Trails. Even Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves are a bit easy or soft in comparison to at least Counterparts or Vapor Trails and now SnA.

Anyway, who's seen them on this tour yet, and who is going to? I will on August. 24, my 6th Rush concert! :banana: I only wish it was indoor as that is where I think they sound the best.

SkyLounger

09-14-2007, 11:39 PM

Been a Rush fan for a very long time but never got a chance to go and see them live...

Tomorrow night will be a first for me in Montreal.... just can't wait!!!

I've been looking at the Rush in Rio DVD for the last seven months...(since my wife offered it to me for Valentine's day, how cool is she?)

Anyway, give me any Rush, anytime, it's always good... It's my story and I stick to it!

BroonsBane

09-15-2007, 09:27 AM

Anyway, give me any Rush, anytime, it's always good... It's my story and I stick to it!

I couldn't agree more! :thmbsp:

rush2112guy

08-31-2008, 03:55 PM

These guys have been my fav band since 1974, when their self titled album came out. 2112 and Hemispheres are my two favorites I have seen them six times and I am going to take my youngest son to see them the next time they come to St. Louis. He thinks they are great also, and he is only 11.He should have a lot of fun!

BroonsBane

08-31-2008, 03:58 PM

Edriz

09-28-2008, 11:32 AM

I'm with Rush2112guy. Can anyone remember the original drummer? Bet he's kicking himself. Let's face it though, even a bad Rush album is sheer Genious!!.

I can't even count how many Rush shows I've been to. I think the only tour I missed was Counterparts. For some reason they haven't played in my area since Roll The Bones. I've had to Travel to either Rochester or Buffalo. These days I won't travel that far to see too many bands but Rush is one of them.

Ed

beans

09-28-2008, 11:48 AM

Artist: Rush
Title: Snake and Arrows
Year: 2007
Record Label: Atlanta/Wea
Genre: Rock
... I love that there lyrics are not about hatred, foul language and womanizing. You know, the typical stuff you hear these days.:thumbsdn:

I give this cd a 6 out of 10 for sound quality and a 10 out of 10 for content.

Paul

It may not be sheer hatred but the whole thing is based on a negative theme against religious establishment. I will not enter into a discussion of religion here, but you made the original point and I only wanted to counter you slightly. I own the album, have enjoyed it, and I agree with some of Peart's expressions. We also saw the tour when it came here and had a great time. But it is what it is.

Permanent Waves

09-29-2008, 02:05 AM

It may not be sheer hatred but the whole thing is based on a negative theme against religious establishment. I will not enter into a discussion of religion here, but you made the original point and I only wanted to counter you slightly. I own the album, have enjoyed it, and I agree with some of Peart's expressions. We also saw the tour when it came here and had a great time. But it is what it is.

I don't think the whole album is solely concerned with anti-religious thought. This is the main thrust or inspiration for the album (as Neil has said) but there are many songs that are about other topics than religion, and even the ones that are, despite some specific lyrics, also have many different interpretations and applications as Rush (and Neil) have always said they have tried to do with their lyrics. They think it's wonderful that someone will think a lyric or song is about something they never even thought of, because they want others to interpret them on their own; they don't want to merely preach anything and want people to think individually.

Here's my brief take on the songs (omitting the instrumentals) and what they mean for instance:

Far Cry - About the state of the world not being as it should and how this fact can be overwhelming yet we must "get back on" and endure it.

Armor and Sword - Can very much be interpreted as an anti-religious song, and this is how they meant it, however, it need not be. Words like "heaven" and "belief" and even "god" need not be taken literally. I see a more universal understanding of this song as merely saying that any beliefs we hold dear and to be true that we use as our protection and courage to face the challenges we must, may be nothing more than illusions or delusions, and thus actually harmful and counter productive. But these can be personal (good will triumph, there is justice, I will survive, etc.) and have nothing to do with religion. They could also just as easily be about any absolutist belief system, like the dogmatic fanaticism those adhering to a totalitarian ideology of the nation state exhibit (this I call secular religion, it is political, and need not to reference the transcendent, it only needs a belief in an infallible leader and system of thought), or that whatever side you are on is right and just, the end, about practically any issue.

Workin' Them Angels - Again, despite the word "angels", all this song is meant to convey is the risks we all have taken, and when it seemed that we should have had disastrous consequences from them, we got away with what we did instead. That's it. Neil does not (and no other member of Rush I'm sure), believe in the actual existence of angels, it is just a metaphor.

The Larger Bowl - About the horrible inequality that is prevalent over much of the world's population..."such a lot of pain on the earth" indeed.

Spindrift - Neil described it as a lover's quarrel, but it can be taken as an East vs. West conflict. However the lyrics are pretty vague and poetic.

The Way the Wind Blows - 0k, this one is a pretty direct attack on religion. However, it need not be viewed as an attack on ALL religion, just the most fundamental, absolutist, intolerant, and yes, dangerous, irrational kind that has, does, and will oppose and undermine man's progress to create a more humane, free, less painful, and moral world. I find it hard to argue with attacks against this brand of belief. It's also about the "tyranny of the majority" as J.S. Mill put it: how those who resist and don't believe what most everyone else does can not shape or change their culture, and indeed will themselves be influenced by it even if they don't agree with much of it. This need not be about religion though, it could be about something as pedestrian as over consumption and consumerism or as ignorant as racism and homophobia.

Faithless - Not so much an attack on religion (although the lyrics "empty vessels" and "fools and thieves" are not exactly non confrontational, however Neil is referencing the many charlatans of many stripes here I'm sure, from snake oil and psuedo-medicine/science peddlers to faith healers and cultists), but more of a statement of how someone without religion views himself and his struggles in a largely religious world and society as well as ultimately finds direction, purpose, and meaning in a godless world (very easy actually). It's about how the faithless are a stranger in their own culture and feel the need to stay "in the closet" about their nonreligious life and beliefs. It is merely an explicit announcement of Neil's (and I think all of Rush's) non belief (about time! lol). That's as non offensive as a religious person's statement of belief.

Bravest Face - A song of cynicism I believe. How anything we view good also inevitably, invariably, has a dark side to it, and how we must have the courage to realize and confront this stark reality.

Good News First - Uh, not real sure about this one. I think it's pessimistic in that it assumes that in the end the bad news or reality will overpower the good news or reality.

We Hold On - Just a song about the daily struggles we all must face and deal with. A message of endurance in the face of adversity (like Marathon?).

So, besides 3 songs, where is all the hatred and negative attacks on religion you speak of? And even in those 3 songs...where is it? Largely Armor and Sword is about a particular vein of religious thought (or non thought), The Way The Wind Blows is the same, and Faithless is a statement about what it means to be nonreligious in a mostly religious world (somewhat...there are many, many more nonbelievers out there then is generally known, and also very weak or unconcerned believers). I find none of them mean spirited in the least. (But then I have read Nietzsche's Antichrist lol).

Also, why the double standard? Or, why do you feel the need to post? If a christian or any other religious band (or serious religious/political organization) attacks non believers, it's fine, and definitely not negative (although it certainly is: what is more negative than blatantly, in much harsher terms most of the time, putting down other people's beliefs and calling them "fools" "wicked" or "hell bound?). But don't dare let a rock band criticize only certain aspects of religious belief, that is NEGATIVE, HATEFUL, MEAN SPIRITED, WRONG, etc. It cannot be constructive, it is only the tearing down of institutions and replacing them with nothing, an existential void. Well this is entirely untrue, humanistic thought has given us many of the luxuries we now enjoy (from medical technology to individual rights and freedoms), but this is far too large of a topic to deal with here.

Anyway, I do not want to discuss religion here (I use the Dawkins or Harris websites for that, and not often), nor start a flame war (I hope I have come across as non offensive), I just wanted to discuss my view of the lyrical content of this album and am just trying to point out that it is hardly a sustained, vitriolic, anti religious polemic against all and every religion and type or strength of belief. It is actually very tame and has universal themes dealing with many different human experiences in every song that are not in the least religious, and is somewhat lyrically ambiguous and thus open to many interpretations, as I have tried to show.

And yes, before you ask (and I know you'll wonder) I am an atheist, have been for life, not afraid to admit it, am in fact proud of it (for it is a wonderful thing to be), though I never push my beliefs on anyone, only discuss them if I'm asked, and I NEVER, EVER judge a person merely by what he or she happens to believe about his or her metaphysical fate or ultimate purpose for existence. How simplistic is that? How conceited, self righteous, and intolerant as well. I believe; no, I KNOW that people are more than just a sum of their beliefs, they are a mix of good and bad no matter what they may think about their ultimate destiny, place in the universe, or what the true structure of the world or reality consists of: material/physical or immaterial/spiritual.

So I mean no offense, and may Rush have many more years of albums and tours! :thmbsp: (Can't wait for the SnA DVD, and the Retrospective 3 should be interesting as well).

Btw, how did this thread get revived? :D

Tripqzon

10-01-2008, 04:08 PM

Btw, how did this thread get revived? :D

:dunno:

Bluesbassplayer

10-01-2008, 04:47 PM

I think Vapor Trails is for a die hard fan, to me like Power Windows, ok - but not their best work. For me Snake and Arrows is a notch higher, a good solid Rush CD. I have been listening to it analytically, while writing this. Seems they mixed Geddy's vocals pretty similar to other albums. His bass sounds like Geddy for sure. Alex, mixed liked we are used to. You know what I am noticing - I would like to hear Neal a little more acoustic, raw, kind of like how you might mic/record a jazz or blues drummer. There seems to be a lot missing there of the acoustic sound of the drums. Maybe that would make it too dynamic, but I want to hear more of the nuances of his playing. I am having trouble putting it in words - but to me something is missing on the drums, not the player - just how it was recorded/processed. Some of its magic/life is hidden to my ears.

DaWoofer

10-01-2008, 06:27 PM

That last line is sure to bring comments like, "time to upgrade your cd player."

Bluesbassplayer

10-02-2008, 09:28 PM

I am using a Benchmark Dac1, I need to update my signature!

Dr. Music

12-13-2008, 05:21 PM

BroonsBane

12-13-2008, 05:38 PM

ScramMan2

12-27-2008, 05:05 PM

Spindrift sounds good on my tube rig! Nice and loud.

Jailtime

12-27-2008, 07:38 PM

To whoever wanted to know the original RUSH drummer, it was John Rutsey. He got sick, and I don't think he worked for another band. And the song Workin them Angels is awesome, especially on the new Snakes and Arrows Live DVD.

ablethevoice

12-27-2008, 07:55 PM

FYI and to anyone who didn't know, John Rutsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rutsey) passed away in May of this year due to complications from diabetes.

RIP, John.

2112

01-04-2009, 01:42 PM

Literally the only Rush I don't like is Rivendel, man I hate that song.
If Vapor Trails sounded better I'd play it more although the LP is miles better than the cd. Snakes and Arrows has become my new favourite of anything they've put out in a long time though, great stuff.

For me there are only 2 songs in 35 years I don't like

I think I am going bald
Stick out your tongue

That's it, Fan since 1978. Seen them 14 times in concert. Own every album in multiples of 3 or 4 for different listening locations.

They were on VH1 last Saturday but the jacka** interviewers did a terrible job. Never asked 1 interesting question. They were too busy trying to be funny.

They were on Colbert Report too but once again grossly under utilized and rudely spoken over by Colbert.

For the Record, I saw S&A on tour twice....because it was worth it.:thmbsp:

2112

01-04-2009, 01:45 PM

FYI and to anyone who didn't know, John Rutsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rutsey) passed away in May of this year due to complications from diabetes.

RIP, John.

Geddy and Alex remained on friendly terms with him for years. Their website posted a respectful obit. Not common in the the Rock world but these guys have always been about class. www.rush.com

I can only hope it remains fun for them as I look forward to each new project, tour or TV/Radio interview.

Permanent Waves

01-04-2009, 03:42 PM

Literally the only Rush I don't like is Rivendel, man I hate that song.

I like that song ok, it's an interesting ballad. I don't dislike any Rush song, not even Tai Shan (it's interesting at least). "I Think I'm Going Bald" is probably my least liked though, and there are many Rush songs that I think are just ok (mostly from the first Rush album and Counterparts and Test For Echo). But dislike or hate? None! :thmbsp:

For me there are only 2 songs in 35 years I don't like

I think I am going bald
Stick out your tongue

That's it, Fan since 1978. Seen them 14 times in concert. Own every album in multiples of 3 or 4 for different listening locations.

They were on VH1 last Saturday but the jacka** interviewers did a terrible job. Never asked 1 interesting question. They were too busy trying to be funny.

They were on Colbert Report too but once again grossly under utilized and rudely spoken over by Colbert.

For the Record, I saw S&A on tour twice....because it was worth it.:thmbsp:

The second song is "Stick it Out" actually, one I like pretty well (great riff!) and that was pretty popular back in my sophmore year of high school when it came out.

Myself, fan since '91 (when I was 14 and first heard songs from the very popular "Roll The Bones"). Had gotten every album up to that point (on cd) by the time I was 16. Bought all the remasters as soon as available too. Seen them on every tour since Counterparts, 7 times in total (twice on the two Test For Echo and Snakes and Arrows legs).

The Colbert thing was supposed to be a joke. He cut into their playing because he was making fun of how long their songs (some of them anyway) go on for. He mentioned it in the interview, so he ran out pretending to think they were done playing and then "realizing" they weren't ran off. Supposed to be a joke, not a mishap. Stupid joke from a stupid guy of course. I don't know why they agreed to be on that silly show.

We'll see more from Rush in the future, but their touring days are almost over. So catch any future shows you can!

2112

01-04-2009, 06:46 PM

Permanent Waves

01-07-2009, 10:38 PM

I am sure they were in on the joke with Colbert. It is just that I, personally, don't like the humor when it is done that way. I mean, talking over their music? That isn't even allowed in our house. Either you talk or you listen to Rush, but not both. :nono: :D:D

Now, Rush's humor is good as evidenced at all their shows; :yes:

And thanks for the correction on "Stick it out" being one of the 2 I don't like, I failed to memorize the name correctly :sigh: :smoke:

But we are on the same page. And I have really enjoyed seeing all the younger fans at the shows. When I was growing up in the 70's, FM radio was our source for all things music. Now with the internet and throw away bands I am happy to see people are still getting exposed to them :thmbsp:

Cool, didn't know if you knew that the Colbert thing was a joke or not: a lot of people from the Rush community think that he did it on purpose to be rude, and at first I didn't know what happened either...like did he make a mistake? Real funny. :no:

Rush definitely has a good and odd sense of humor. Have you gotten the SnA Live dvd? It has all the mini-flims from the SnA tour shows and outtakes. They're pretty funny and certainly wacko!

Hmmm...younger? Do you mean me? I'm old! 31! :sigh: Now I'm seeing 20 year old "kids" at the shows. :sigh: Lot's of real kids too, from 10ish to mid teens, with their parents. Pretty cool to pass the Rush torch that way!

I'm going to offer a counter view of the internet affecting musical exposure. Wayyy back when I was in high school, in those dark days before the internet, I'd have to rely on radio to play Rush or mention any news about them. The only way I could find out their complete discography (so I could buy them all! :thmbsp:), was to go into the cd/record store and write down all the titles they had, which were never all carried. In fact, I barely heard Rush on the radio and only happened to be introduced to them by a friend. They did get popular during my high school years though with the radio friendly Roll The Bones and Counterparts, but they still weren't played much compared to other bands at the time.

Now in these enlightened days of the internet all I have to do is google "Rush" to find out anything I want to know about them from discography, news, trivia, lyrics, history, discussion boards, music samples, merchandise (previously only available at their shows or through mail order), music videos, tour history with even the set lists listed, and even their own website! If I had had this access when I was in high school I would have been an even bigger fan and could have directed more of my friends to info about Rush. Loaning out cd's was good, but the sheer volume of info on the band now available is a great addition to hearing them.

In other words, though these days the radio is dead and lossy formats of music abound, previously great but "underground" bands who do not receive much radio play (or any) can get more exposure to a bigger demographic than ever before (in high school, when wearing a Rush shirt, I can't count how often I got asked "Who's Rush?" even back then when they were fairly popular as I've said). Word of mouth and radio can only do so much, now there are sites that list hundreds of bands I would have never heard of without them (like this one: http://www.melodicrock.com/reviews/reviews.html or AMG).

Throwaway and bands of the moment have always been around, those that know better than to listen to them as the masses do now have a very convenient source for finding out more about those sub-popular esoteric bands whose songs and names would be unknown by all but the most musically enlightened just over a decade ago.

2112

01-07-2009, 11:05 PM

By younger, I mean pre-teen or early teen.

I am sure your observations are correct but I am 45 so in my formative years it was only the radio or rare publications that discussed them at all. And in the late 70s early eighties, they got a fair amount of radio play.

I was mostly commenting that due to the state of today's radio, I attributed it to the net for bringing new and young fans around.

The more the merrier. :smoke:

Check this out;

http://www.neilpeart.net/movies/yyz_vid.html

Permanent Waves

01-08-2009, 08:57 PM

By younger, I mean pre-teen or early teen.

Ok, thought you were referrencing me, boy I really am old. :sigh:

I am sure your observations are correct but I am 45 so in my formative years it was only the radio or rare publications that discussed them at all.

Which I was saying was a factor of why they have always had a more limited audience.

in the late 70s early eighties, they got a fair amount of radio play.

I think this really depends on where you live. Some areas are pretty exposed to Rush, St. Louis where I am being one of them. It also depends on the radio stations in the area. The leading rock one here for decades has always been pretty good supporters of Rush, but I've read tales of others in other cities who never even played them, no matter what the year. Oh the horror!

I was mostly commenting that due to the state of today's radio, I attributed it to the net for bringing new and young fans around.

I guess I just misunderstood you! :thmbsp: I guess you meant that now with the internet they get more exposure, but then you went right on to say "and with throw away bands" so I thought you meant that the internet caters to the pop band of the moment (which it of course does, but there are lots of resources out there now for about any band too).

The more the merrier. :smoke:

Most definitely! :thmbsp: It's nice to see Rush finally getting some recognition in this late stage in their career. :yes: Even Rolling Stone (gasp!) did an article on them that wasn't all critical.

Check this out;

http://www.neilpeart.net/movies/yyz_vid.html

I saw that when it came out, great stuff! If you don't already know of them, here's two good Rush sites (although on the Counterparts board people are kind of nasty):

http://www.rushisaband.com/

http://www.rushmessageboard.com/cpmb/index.php

Jailtime

01-08-2009, 09:05 PM

I was a Rush hater until I saw their R30 DVD. Now I have the Snakes and Arrows Live DVD. I highly recommend it, fantastic performance from the 35 year old band. Geddy really shows that he still has "it" on Malignant Narcissism. One of his best bass performances, IMO. :music: And the mandolin (or whatever that is) solo in Workin' them Angels is a nice touch that shows Rush still adding new stuff to their music. And hey, I'm a 22 year old Rush fan! :thmbsp: Rock on, Rush, and please tour in '09!

Permanent Waves

01-09-2009, 03:23 PM

R30 and SnA Live are both great performances from a band whose live shows have always been fantastic, glad you "found the Rush light"! lol :yes:

IMO not only does Rush still have it, they are at the top of their live career. :thmbsp:

Now I say this with the reference point of having seen shows only since the Counterparts tour when they were already an "old" band as that was their 20th anniversary tour of sorts as well, but I have had their old live albums "All The World's A Stage", "Exit...Stage Left", and "A Show of Hands" for over 15 years now and "Different Stages" for ten years now. More recently I got "Rush in Rio" (great performance, dismal recording), and of course "R30" and "SnA Live" as they came out (I got "Different Stages" when it came out as well of course :D).

My assessment is twofold: Concert going wise their best shows I have seen have all been the later ones: on the "Vapor Trails" tour, 30th anniversary tour, and the "SnA" tour. The "Counterparts" and "Test For Echo" shows were good, but not AS good...shouldn't it be the other way around for an aging band? Especially one that plays fast paced youthful music? :scratch2:

Live album wise before "Different Stages" "Exit" was their best imo. Then when "Different Stages" came out I felt it was a tie with "Exit", maybe slightly better (performance and soundwise, although Ged's voice was strained). After their hiatus due to Neil's dual losses, I was blown away by "RiR". Even with the bad quality sound it had such energy and Ged's bass guitar just growled and his vocals were great. Then came "R30". Holy crap! Great performance AND sound. And now we have "SnA Live" which has the best sound to date and incredible (equal to R30 I'd say) performances. I can't believe that a band around age 50-55 put out "RiR", "R30", and "SnA Live". Geddy's voice, in particular, sounds BETTER than on "Different Stages" AND "A Show of Hands" as on these 2 albums imo his voice was strained somewhat (but not on "All The World's A Stage" or "Exit...Stage Left").

So that's my take of this great band's live performance history: they've gotten BETTER with age, not declined. The biggest reason for this, imo, is that they simply play with more confidence and alter the songs more now than in the past, as well as extend some solos (check out the extended solo on "Bravado" on "RiR", and "La Villa Strangiato" on that same album is the best version I've heard yet...and "Natural Science" on "Different Stages", "RiR", and "SnA Live" is incredible, so is "Working Man" on "RiR" and "SnA Live"...etc.). In the past it seemed that they were more "stick to the album format and sound" when they played their songs live. Now they've loosened up and their songs flow more freely without being sloppy and are heavier and more aggressive than ever (yep, even more than "All The World's A Stage" : "RiR", "R30", and "SnA Live" will melt your face off many a time). And if anyone says that Ged's voice is gone, they haven't been paying attention since 1980 when he did a voice drop. The only live album he wailed on was "A Show of Hands"; "Exit" was more mellow and as I've said the next two albums were his worst vocal wise imo ("A Show of Hands" and "Different Stages"). But starting with "RiR" it came back strong, as evidenced on such songs as "Freewill", "Working Man", and "2112" on "RiR", "2112", "Xanadu", and "Working Man" on "R30", and "Mission", "Freewill", "Circumstances", and "A Passage to Bangkok" on "SnA Live"...etc. It's strained in some places, but not overall, and just fantastic at some points. It's matured nicely to a lower octave that still can get very high, just not the shrill high of the 70's. It sounds like he's in his 30's were his voice is not the more shallow higher octave of his 20's, but not a worn out voice of middle age: it has more depth, substance, and force live post 2000 than perhaps since the early to mid-80's (from my judgement of my live Rush albums and concerts attended).

If they do tour again, make sure to catch them, because they will go out when they are still on top or close to it (as they are now), and will not be doing endless "Final Tours" in their 60's! When I first got into them in '91 every tour was rumored to be their last (Neil has been saying since the late 80's that he wouldn't tour anymore actually), and I'm amazed that they are still playing such energetic music live now so well in their 50's! But I think they've only got one, maybe two tours left. :tears: It's been a great run though! :thmbsp:

Well, this is all JMO, but I have followed them closely for over 15 years now!

PS: Rush has always tried different sounds/instruments in their music, that's what makes them so great, they don't stick to any one format, all their albums vary significantly from one another over a short space of time. I can't begin to list all the different techniques they've applied and instruments they've played, but starting back on "Test For Echo" Alex has used a mandola, and the electronic violin has been used in some albums since '82's "Signals", and on "SnA" Ged fired up an old Mini Moog he hasn't used since the 70's, and, of course, Neil's kit has changed dramatically over the years and he even reworked his drumming method under teacher Freddie Gruber in the mid 90's. As for the song Malignant Narcissism I'll leave it to Wiki to tell the interesting story behind this great little instrumental which illustrates Rush's ingenuity and on the fly improvisation ("Far Cry", btw, was written in about a day):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_Narcissism_(song)

Edriz

01-09-2009, 06:49 PM

I can remember Rush's first LP when it came out. I also don't like the song" I think I'm Going Bald" Can't think of anything else they ever did that I don't like. 2112 is still my favorite all time Rush LP. Yeah, they have made better music since then but 2112 is still thier Signature LP.

If I'm not wrong and believe me I'm never wrong, I may be mistaken now and then but never wrong( just ask me), the original drummer left the band because he didn't like the direction the band wanted to go in.

That's what I read somewhere over 25 years ago. I admit, I didn't remember his name but I did remember reading that.

2112

01-09-2009, 07:42 PM

2112

01-09-2009, 07:45 PM

PS My favorite albums are Signals and side 2 on Moving pictures (witch hunt)If I was forced to choose one:smoke:

Let's make it an official sticky; Rush is the best Prog. Rock band ever!

Edriz

01-09-2009, 09:33 PM

He left due to Illness according to official reports. Hearing interviews with Geddy and Alex lead me to believe he just wasn't up for touring. He also was put in charge of lyrics and didn't come through.

They parted on good terms though and remained friendly for years.

I do know they parted on good terms, and with the touring, but I woulkdn't agree with the lyrics. I don't think it was a decisionn that Neils "job" was to write lyrics. He just happened to be able to do it. It was a natural talent that he was able to do. It wasn't appointed as a "duty" or "job" It just happened. He is also a writer. If he didn't have the band, he would still be a writter. Books etc. It is a natural thing for him to write. Alex and Geddy are also capable of that themselves. They choose to step back and let Neil do the majority because his style "fits" the band.

That's why the need for solo work. To fulfull the writting styles of the remailing 2 members.

Let's not forget that both Alex and Geddy contribute much to the writting process of each Lp. Ya know that's just how I see it anyway.

2112

01-09-2009, 10:07 PM

Edriz

01-10-2009, 07:26 AM

John Rutsey was given the job of writing lyrics. He told the guys he tore them up because he did not think they worked.

I agree when Neil joined, he was hired as a drummer and evolved into a lyricist.

Yes Geddy and Alex are capable Lyricists but tend to focus on the music.

Absolutely, I agree. I di have to agree with your statement on the original drummer. I really don't know much about him. Only what I may have read and that would have been 25-30 years ago.

I would admit, I haven't read anything about Rush since maybe Test For Echo. The last CD I got was Vapor Trails and I haven't listened to it all the way through.

Up until the past November, I have been in a bad slump. I stopped listening to everything for about 4, close to 5 years. I don't think the stereo was even turned on except to watch DVD movies and that was only because the sound for the DVD is patched through the Stereo. Maybe it was back as far as August of last year, anyway somehow, I got re-awakened. I did something I hardly ever do and surfed the internet. I actually did stmble on the AK forum. I can't explain how I got here but I kind of just browsed the site for a week or so and also looked at a couple other audio forums.

I kept finding myself back here more and not at any of the others. I also started listening to music again while I was lurking around. I guess it was natural to join. Once Januuary rolled in I decided to caugh up the $25 and subscribe.

I guess the reasons I lost interest in stereo and musuc are deeper but that's a longer story and I'm sure nobody is interested in anyway!!

Have a great weekend all

2112

01-10-2009, 11:52 AM

Ed. Get yourself a copy of Snakes and Arrows and call us in the morning.:yes:

It is an unbelievable album and the DVD version has a documentary on the recording session in the Catskills (I think) where they did everything.

www.rush.com :thmbsp:

BroonsBane

01-10-2009, 11:57 AM

Ed. Get yourself a copy of Snakes and Arrows and call us in the morning.:yes:

Exactly. It's easily their best stuff since Moving Pictures. The more you play it the more you will like it. It's good, damn good. The LP sounds fantastic as well :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

01-10-2009, 07:28 PM

I guess the reasons I lost interest in stereo and musuc are deeper but that's a longer story and I'm sure nobody is interested in anyway!!

It happens. I had personal problems that sent me into a depression (I'm prone to it genetically) where I just didn't really care to listen to music much, because I view music as a celebration of life and I wasn't happy with mine in that period (as a side comment here: Neil, after his wife and daughter died, didn't pick up a drumstick for years. Alex and Geddy also got depressed and didn't feel like writing music much; I think I remember Alex saying he didn't feel like playing the guitar). I must of left this site for over a year, right Broons? :D

Ged and Alex also contribute to the lyrics, mostly Ged because he has to sing them. They didn't use to as much, but now they will make suggestions to Neil about the lyrical content and he will rework it. Neil also provides input on the song writing/structure that Alex and Ged come up with. They all work together really on about every aspect of every song.

Rutsey recently passed away, complications due to diabetes. He was 55. Here's some more info:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=1482

He left the band due to his health which was fair even back then, and he didn't want to do the rigorous touring Alex and Geddy wanted to (and did do). He also didn't want the band to go more hard rock/prog, but to remain more bluesy or whatever the first album is (it's not a favorite of mine).

Vapor Trails was/is good, I thought it was/is much better than Counterparts or Test For Echo, two of my least favorite Rush albums which I had the misfortune of being in my teens when they came out and feeling that Rush was finally "losing it", right when I was getting into them. Vapor Trails changed that, and the show I saw on the tour was fantastic, best I had seen yet (now I'd say the show I saw on the 30th anniversary tour is), but it's dismal recording makes it virtually unlistenable. I put it on maybe once a year.

As others have said, get Snakes and Arrows! Right now. I mean it. Run, don't walk! :D I liked it from the start, then it just got better and better until after a few weeks of it's release I put it in the top 5 of my favorite Rush albums. Now I consider it perhaps their best work ever. Quite an acheivement for a 30+ year old band! :thmbsp:

Good to have yet another Rush fan here, glad you found the site! :thmbsp:

2112

01-10-2009, 07:30 PM

Exactly. It's easily their best stuff since Moving Pictures. The more you play it the more you will like it. It's good, damn good. The LP sounds fantastic as well :thmbsp:

I really loved Signals, Power Windows, Roll the Bones and Test for Echo and especially "My favourite Headache". Liked immensely Grace Under Pressure, Presto, Hold Your fire, Counter Parts and Vapor Trails.

But Broons' point is well taken. Snakes and Arrows is all that and more.:yes: If you don't have it, you are missing out.:smoke:

Edriz

01-11-2009, 11:12 AM

Exactly. It's easily their best stuff since Moving Pictures. The more you play it the more you will like it. It's good, damn good. The LP sounds fantastic as well :thmbsp:

I will be getting it soon. I'll have to get it online. I need the Vinyl version and there isn't anywhere in the desolite, backward area I live in that sells vinyl.

I'm just the one that thinks that Rush can do no wrong. Even a bad Rush album( if there ever was one) is better then most anything any other band can produce.

I though Hold Yor Fire was great. Mission makes my heart thump :thmbsp:

BroonsBane

01-11-2009, 11:56 AM

2112

01-11-2009, 03:27 PM

Available on vinyl straight from the band themselves; :yes::yes::yes:

http://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/compact-discs/snakes-arrows-vinyl/index.html

BroonsBane

01-11-2009, 03:35 PM

Available on vinyl straight from the band themselves; :yes::yes::yes:

http://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/compact-discs/snakes-arrows-vinyl/index.html

Sweet. The last time I checked there they were sold out. Get your copy now folks! :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

01-12-2009, 10:34 AM

Even a bad Rush album( if there ever was one) is better then most anything any other band can produce.

I though Hold Yor Fire was great. Mission makes my heart thump :thmbsp:

I'm the same way. A lesser Rush album is either better than what other bands put out, or equal to their best work. And a good Rush album is better than anything. :thmbsp:

I too love Hold Your Fire. It's so subtle, nuanced, sophisticated...very beautiful emotional album. Mission is a great song, check out the recent live version on SnA Live!

Permanent Waves

01-12-2009, 10:44 AM

My first Rush concert was the Hemispheres Tour and that era will always be my favourite ie. 2112 through Moving Pictures. The stuff that came after I also like but until Vapor Trails (I LOVE Freeze, was very disappointed they didn't play it on that tour, at least not the night we saw them) there was nothing to get too excited about, although I'm a big Counterparts fan.

But...Snakes and Arrows is a different beast altogether. The songwriting, musicianship, vitality and energy they bring to their latest and arguably best work they have ever done is astounding.

I hope you can scoop the vinyl, it had a very limited production run of 5000 copies IIRC. Search high, search low but keep searching till you find one. And no, you can't have mine :D

So cool you got to see them on the Hemispheres tour! :thmbsp:

I do think that 2112 through MP is probably their best years, but I really like everything they did from 2112 to Roll the Bones. Before, imo, they weren't quite "Rush" yet, and after, imo, they started sounding more generic and less inspired.

Then came Vapor Trails, my favorite since RTB, then came SnA and wow!

They never have played Freeze live, I too would like to have seen it. Here's a pretty accurate and comprehensive list of the set lists of all their tours:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/Tours.htm

2112

01-12-2009, 11:06 AM

Here's a pretty accurate and comprehensive list of the set lists of all their tours:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/Tours.htm

The most amazing thing on this site is the list of song they never played in concert. Many of my favorites :scratch2:

Edriz

01-13-2009, 09:10 AM

Sweet. The last time I checked there they were sold out. Get your copy now folks! :thmbsp:

I checked last night, still sold out. But the S-N-Arrows concert DVD IS still available so I may wait a week and if the LP isn't yet available, I may look at those "other two" sites. If it's still unavailable the I have to get the concert DVD.

Aww, hell, I think I'll just go over there this morning and get the DVD.

That's something else I need to do. Maybe I should go to thier official website and post some complaints. I'm tired of having to travel to see Rush live. Up until the "Roll The Bones" Tour, they always played in one of 2 arenas locally. Ever since, in order to seeRush, I would have to drive more then 2 hours, one way. Now, 20-25 years ago, I didn't mind that. I'm just a bit to old to have to drive more hours then a show lasts.

Especially when there are 3 arenas large enough to handle a Rush audience. Two of them in Syracuse NY and the other in Binghanton. I'm smack dab in the middle!!

Permanent Waves

01-13-2009, 09:43 AM

The most amazing thing on this site is the list of song they never played in concert. Many of my favorites :scratch2:

That's a great site. I've download all the desktop themes and winamp skins years ago and they're fun to use. And all the album art is nice to use as desktop wallpaper when using just a regular windows theme, I have the Grace Under Pressure cover on my desktop right now (same as my avatar).

There is actually a petition http://www.rushpetition.com/ to get Rush to play some of these never played songs on tour or get them to play songs that they haven't played live in over a decade or even decades, and Rush has actually looked at it and unearthed a few songs on their recent tours (Vapor Trails on) partly because of it as well as "request" threads of the same nature on various Rush boards. These include, off the top of my head:

Working Man
By-Tor and the Snowdog
New World Man
Digital Man
Circumstances
The Pass
Entre Nous (played live for the first time ever on the SnA tour)
Vital Signs
La Villa Strangiato (full version)
Between The Wheels
Circumstances
Witch Hunt
Mission
A Passage to Bangkok
Ghost of a Chance

It's great they have been playing these more fan based songs instead of just endless "greatest hits" setlists to appeal to everyone, although they always have pretty much done this.

Of those they have never played and those they haven't in a long time, I'd like to see:

"The Camera Eye" (which is the highest requested song for them to play yet)
Hemispheres (abbreviated or not)
Jacob's Ladder
The Enemy Within
Time Stand Still (although I did see that in '93)
Presto
Bastille Day
Heresy
Vapor Trail
A Farewell To Kings
Freeze
Faithless
Fly By Night
Territories
Something For Nothing
The Weapon
Marathon
Show Don't Tell
Half The World
Scars

But, of course, with over 150 songs to date (not counting their cover song album), and not being young men anymore, they could hardly play all the songs everyone wants of them in anycase. It would be what...a 5+ hour show (as of now they've been doing 3 hours since the Test For Echo tour), and even then there would be some songs left out!

I'm just thankful I've got to see them live as many times as I have (7). :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

01-13-2009, 10:49 AM

Aww, hell, I think I'll just go over there this morning and get the DVD.

Good man! You won't be dissappointed! :D

That's something else I need to do. Maybe I should go to thier official website and post some complaints. I'm tired of having to travel to see Rush live. Up until the "Roll The Bones" Tour, they always played in one of 2 arenas locally. Ever since, in order to seeRush, I would have to drive more then 2 hours, one way. Now, 20-25 years ago, I didn't mind that. I'm just a bit to old to have to drive more hours then a show lasts.

Especially when there are 3 arenas large enough to handle a Rush audience. Two of them in Syracuse NY and the other in Binghanton. I'm smack dab in the middle!!

Hmm, that is a bit curious that they would skip good arenas close by you. :scratch2: However, there are a few things to consider:

1. They aren't young men. They can't go everywhere like they used to. They have stated in interviews numerous times that recent tours take a big toll on them and they need to have a few days off a week, not just one or two. That's a "Far Cry" (haha) from the 70's and 80's where they were on the road the majority of the year sometimes and Neil would even ride his bicycle (yes, not motorcycle, bicycle) in between some shows. I'm surprised they're even still touring at all, or at least more than just a few of the biggest cities. They don't need the money, in fact they haven't needed money since the days of Moving Pictures.

2. If they can't fill up venues then they won't play there, nor will promoters and tour management and such let them. Even if Rush didn't want profits, everyone else does and you have to pay the bills. It isn't the early 90's much less the 80's anymore, and Rush, as well as I think many other big name arena acts and live concerts in general, have seen a decline in attendance for some time. To put it in my perspective:

On the Counterparts tour I saw back in '94 they played in the famous (now torn down) Checkerdome/St. Louis Arena, home of the Blues, here in St. Louis. It held 20,000 and was filled, I was in nosebleed and I didn't see an empty seat. Two and 1/2 years later on the Test For Echo tour they played the Keil arena here in St. Louis in Fall of '96 (on Halloween). It holds a little over 9,000. It was pretty full from what I remember, but I don't think sold out. Then, on the second leg, in spring of '97, 3 years after the Counterparts show, they played at the Riverport Ampitheater which holds about 13,000. It was 3/4 full, as it was the for the 3 other Rush shows I've seen there since (maybe a little more on the 30th Anniversary tour). Back in '91, when Rush came for the Roll The Bones tour in the fall and Riverport was new, I was in high school and remember hearing it was sold out and took hours to get out. And that was on the second leg of that tour, on the first they had played the Checkerdome which I assume was pretty full as it was when I saw them a couple years later. Also, I saw them in Ames, Iowa (on the Vapor Trails tour in '02), which is a collge town north of Des Moines in the Hilton Coliseum, home of the ISU Cyclones. It holds 14,000 and was 2/3rds full, at best, despite this being the first Rush tour in 5+ years.

So although Rush can still fill mid sized arenas (they don't have to play at casinos and fairs or bars/clubs for beer money like most other bands their age lol), they can't fill the big ones nor can they fill smaller venues in less populated areas anymore. A two hour drive is worth it to see Rush to me, I drove a good 8 hours (both ways) back in '02 to see them in Ames, Iowa and visit a college buddy (granted I was 25 and I like driving as long as it's not in traffic lol). I was estactic, because they hadn't toured in 5 years and it was long thought that after Neil lost his daughter and wife within a year in '97/'98 that Rush was over. But once again I had the chance to go see them and have 3 more times since then and all were fantastic shows. I'm just glad they are still around. :thmbsp:

RHauge

01-13-2009, 11:02 AM

First time I saw Rush was when they put out the first album,Along time ago! Still a amazing band and am looking forward to that New DVD concert.

Edriz

01-13-2009, 11:41 AM

Good man! You won't be dissappointed! :D

Hmm, that is a bit curious that they would skip good arenas close by you. :scratch2: However, there are a few things to consider:

1. They aren't young men. They can't go everywhere like they used to. They have stated in interviews numerous times that recent tours take a big toll on them and they need to have a few days off a week, not just one or two. That's a "Far Cry" (haha) from the 70's and 80's where they were on the road the majority of the year sometimes and Neil would even ride his bicycle (yes, not motorcycle, bicycle) in between some shows. I'm surprised they're even still touring at all, or at least more than just a few of the biggest cities. They don't need the money, in fact they haven't needed money since the days of Moving Pictures.

2. If they can't fill up venues then they won't play there, nor will promoters and tour management and such let them. Even if Rush didn't want profits, everyone else does and you have to pay the bills. It isn't the early 90's much less the 80's anymore, and Rush, as well as I think many other big name arena acts and live concerts in general, have seen a decline in attendance for some time. To put it in my perspective:

On the Counterparts tour I saw back in '94 they played in the famous (now torn down) Checkerdome/St. Louis Arena, home of the Blues, here in St. Louis. It held 20,000 and was filled, I was in nosebleed and I didn't see an empty seat. Two and 1/2 years later on the Test For Echo tour they played the Keil arena here in St. Louis in Fall of '96 (on Halloween). It holds a little over 9,000. It was pretty full from what I remember, but I don't think sold out. Then, on the second leg, in spring of '97, 3 years after the Counterparts show, they played at the Riverport Ampitheater which holds about 13,000. It was 3/4 full, as it was the for the 3 other Rush shows I've seen there since (maybe a little more on the 30th Anniversary tour). Back in '91, when Rush came for the Roll The Bones tour in the fall and Riverport was new, I was in high school and remember hearing it was sold out and took hours to get out. And that was on the second leg of that tour, on the first they had played the Checkerdome which I assume was pretty full as it was when I saw them a couple years later. Also, I saw them in Ames, Iowa (on the Vapor Trails tour in '02), which is a collge town north of Des Moines in the Hilton Coliseum, home of the ISU Cyclones. It holds 14,000 and was 2/3rds full, at best, despite this being the first Rush tour in 5+ years.

So although Rush can still fill mid sized arenas (they don't have to play at casinos and fairs or bars/clubs for beer money like most other bands their age lol), they can't fill the big ones nor can they fill smaller venues in less populated areas anymore. A two hour drive is worth it to see Rush to me, I drove a good 8 hours (both ways) back in '02 to see them in Ames, Iowa and visit a college buddy (granted I was 25 and I like driving as long as it's not in traffic lol). I was estactic, because they hadn't toured in 5 years and it was long thought that after Neil lost his daughter and wife within a year in '97/'98 that Rush was over. But once again I had the chance to go see them and have 3 more times since then and all were fantastic shows. I'm just glad they are still around. :thmbsp:
I agree with you 100%. But I have seen them way to many times then I can remember and in a few countries to include Germany and most of Europe. At my age to make a 4 hour trip, I would have a terrible time keeping my eyes open on the drive home. The DVD is a great thingdo I don't miss a great tour but it's a far cry from being there.

I missed the Counterparts tours and that I really wanted to see bad. I actually think thay were scheduled to play Syracuse but for some reason, they cancelled.

Oh and don't blame thier age. Look at guys like Dio...way older then any of the guys in Rush and they are touring thier asses off!!!

Dio by the way just turned 66 this past year :banana:

poohsan

01-13-2009, 02:28 PM

nominated for thread of the century :thmbsp:

2112

01-13-2009, 04:53 PM

They still sell out up here. Mostly outsdoor amphitheaters pushing 20,000. Instead of Seattle, they go to a natural ampitheater in the middle of the state and draw form 6 million residents rather than 2.:yes:

They also hit Portland and Vancouver BC a day before and a day after (usually).:smoke:

I drive 3 hours to see them now. But when they were on the Presto Tour, I saw them in Seattle and drove to Costa Mesa California (20hours 1 way) and back. Of course I was 25 but it was a long haul and worth it.:yes::yes::yes:

Jailtime

01-13-2009, 07:14 PM

Rush hasn't played Farewell to Kings or Something for Nothing live!? :jawdrop: Maybe they'll play them for me when they tour in 2009! :D I can only hope they go again, I've missed chances the last 2 years. Old men as far as touring goes, but as far as playing, they're better than ever. :thmbsp:

Edriz

01-16-2009, 04:05 PM

Jailtime

01-16-2009, 04:54 PM

Hey, I said as far as touring goes. :D Most bands chump out well before Rush. I mean, 35 years and 18 studio albums? At least they don't look as old as ZZ Top. :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

01-16-2009, 06:32 PM

I agree with you 100%. But I have seen them way to many times then I can remember and in a few countries to include Germany and most of Europe. At my age to make a 4 hour trip, I would have a terrible time keeping my eyes open on the drive home. The DVD is a great thingdo I don't miss a great tour but it's a far cry from being there.

I missed the Counterparts tours and that I really wanted to see bad. I actually think thay were scheduled to play Syracuse but for some reason, they cancelled.

Oh and don't blame thier age. Look at guys like Dio...way older then any of the guys in Rush and they are touring thier asses off!!!

Dio by the way just turned 66 this past year :banana:

Not to offend, but you say that a 4 hour trip for you is hard at your age (mid 40's? I'm guessing here), but you don't think we can blame Rush's age for their touring less? They play for about 3 hours, not just drive! :D

I'm 31 and I've just started to feel the effects of aging. I look young (still get carded for buying the occasional six pack!) and have always had good energy (unless I was depressed) and I exercise regularly and eat fairly well and don't smoke or anything, but I can tell a difference between 31 and even 27 or 29, not to mention 25 and under! I'm sure Rush is feeling their age in their mid 50's, you have to!

Permanent Waves

01-16-2009, 06:42 PM

They still sell out up here. Mostly outsdoor amphitheaters pushing 20,000. Instead of Seattle, they go to a natural ampitheater in the middle of the state and draw form 6 million residents rather than 2.:yes:

I drive 3 hours to see them now. But when they were on the Presto Tour, I saw them in Seattle and drove to Costa Mesa California (20hours 1 way) and back. Of course I was 25 but it was a long haul and worth it.:yes::yes::yes:

Yea, they still sell out some places and fill some well, but there's a lot of places where the venue is 2/3 to 3/4 filled and it isn't a particulary big venue either. Look at this list of the figures for their last tour for instance:

http://www.rushisaband.com/tour.php

Most places do pretty well, but some, like Jacksonville Florida, have only half of the seats sold, and many (most really) other venues have a thousand to a few thousand seats unfilled. :sigh:

20 hours...damn! I thought I was crazy doing about 8 or 10 from St. Louis to Des Moines and then from there to Ames and then back the next day! It was fun though, and Rush is ALWAYS worth it!

Permanent Waves

01-16-2009, 06:45 PM

Old men as far as touring goes, but as far as playing, they're better than ever. :thmbsp:

Yep! I don't understand it but they play better live now in their 50's than ever before. It's just all the practice I guess, they can play those songs in their sleep!

Permanent Waves

01-16-2009, 06:45 PM

They're not that OLD. :thmbsp:

No, but they aren't young either!

Permanent Waves

01-16-2009, 06:51 PM

Hey, I said as far as touring goes. :D Most bands chump out well before Rush. I mean, 35 years and 18 studio albums?

And they had a 5 year hiatus due to Neil's losses. So really, more like 30 years and 18 studio albums (not counting Feedback and Alex's and Geddy's solo albums) and thousands of shows too of course. :thmbsp:

Jailtime

01-16-2009, 06:55 PM

Wonder if they have another album in the works? We can only hope so. SNA is a magnificent achievement. I think the time has come for me to complete my Rush collection, I only have the first 8 albums and Feedback. All this Rush talk makes me want some more.

Permanent Waves

01-16-2009, 07:16 PM

Wonder if they have another album in the works? We can only hope so.

Right now, as always, they say that after the process of writing and recording and touring for a year or two they just get sick of their equipment and have to take a break. They are also trying to make up for the lost family time due to touring and writing/recording so much in their early years.

BUT, there are rumors that they have already casually started writing songs (and usually they do that on the road while they are on tour anyway) and are signing a record deal with another company because their Atlantic contract is up. They (really Atlantic) will release a Retrospective 3 album http://www.amazon.com/Retrospective-3-CD-DVD-Rush/dp/B001G8SWXM in March hopefully and that will fulfill their commitment to Atlantic.

Another rumor is that since cd's are going the way of the dodo, Rush will release not whole albums, but songs here and there via the internet for downloads. I'm not sure if this is good or not: on the one hand, being their age they aren't so enthusiastic about tackling the whole process of writing and recording 10+ songs anymore so allowing them to kind of write and release songs without such a time commitment or restraint could keep them going longer. On the other hand, a album has a central theme and is not just random songs being released, unless Rush did write songs that were linked together, just spaced apart by time. Think of the "Fear" series for one.

SNA is a magnificent achievement.

Most definitely. 100% correct. Absolutely. For certain. Etc...:D

I think the time has come for me to complete my Rush collection, I only have the first 8 albums and Feedback. All this Rush talk makes me want some more.

What?! Do it now!

Well, it took me 3 years to do so from age 14 to 17, but of course that was when I was working a part time low pay job and trying to save up for a car and cds cost $18 or more. I did get some Rush through BMG for cheaper though.

Jailtime

01-16-2009, 07:21 PM

There's no way Rush can release single songs. They have a heritage of albums that have all the songs linked in a theme, 2112, Permanent Waves, etc. But that's just my opinion. And I have my Rush on the remasters collection, good sounding CDs, IMO, I'll finish those up first, then on to vinyl. :thmbsp: And I also heard those rumors that Rush was recording or writing some new songs. :D

Edriz

01-17-2009, 06:54 AM

Hey, I said as far as touring goes. :D Most bands chump out well before Rush. I mean, 35 years and 18 studio albums? At least they don't look as old as ZZ Top. :thmbsp:

Most bands suck, but the greats like Rush,Dio, Maiden, Priest, Purple, Scorpions, etc, they just keep on going and going and....

Edriz

01-17-2009, 07:04 AM

Not to offend, but you say that a 4 hour trip for you is hard at your age (mid 40's? I'm guessing here), but you don't think we can blame Rush's age for their touring less? They play for about 3 hours, not just drive! :D

I'm 31 and I've just started to feel the effects of aging. I look young (still get carded for buying the occasional six pack!) and have always had good energy (unless I was depressed) and I exercise regularly and eat fairly well and don't smoke or anything, but I can tell a difference between 31 and even 27 or 29, not to mention 25 and under! I'm sure Rush is feeling their age in their mid 50's, you have to!

Mid 40's, I wish and Thank you. No I just turned 52 Jan 5. And I got carded :thmbsp: I was at the grocery store and got a couple 6paks of wine coolers for a guestthat was coming over for New Years Eve and I was asked for ID.

I showed the check out girl my DRAFT card. She had no idea what it was. The guy in line behind me was an older guy, probably mid 60's, bursted out laughing. He didn't believe I had one. I told him I was one of the last that still got issued a draft card. I didn't see Rush on their first album/tour but did manage to see most tours after. With the exception of Counterparts, Vapor Trails and it looks like I won't be seeing SNA live anyway.

They did play Rochester this past Sept, I think but which is 2-1/2 hours. I have a real bad back and am 100% disabled. I can walk and at times use a walker. I seem to have a hard time driving more than an hour or so before I have to get out of the car. This past summer I got a beaytiful riding lawn mower and I can't even use it. I can do the snowblowing but only half the driveway at a time.

Oh well, life is what it is. As long as Rush and my other long time favorites will keep putting out great DVD's, what more can I ask. Besides of course, great new LP's:rockon:

Permanent Waves

01-17-2009, 07:29 AM

Mid 40's, I wish and Thank you. No I just turned 52 Jan 5. And I got carded :thmbsp: I was at the grocery store and got a couple 6paks of wine coolers for a guestthat was coming over for New Years Eve and I was asked for ID.

Actually, I think they have to card anyone who looks 40ish and under, so I guess I shouldn't feel so good when I get carded. :sigh: But that's good for you! :thmbsp:

I did, however, get carded when I was 27 for buying a R rated DVD at WalMart! I was like, what? I look like I'm 17? Awesome! And the cashier was 20 something herself so it wasn't an older person thinking I looked young, it was a younger person thinking I did! :D

They did play Rochester this past Sept, I think but which is 2-1/2 hours. I have a real bad back and am 100% disabled. I can walk and at times use a walker. I seem to have a hard time driving more than an hour or so before I have to get out of the car. This past summer I got a beaytiful riding lawn mower and I can't even use it. I can do the snowblowing but only half the driveway at a time.

Oh well, life is what it is.

Well now I feel like an ass! :sigh: I'm really sorry to hear that, OF COURSE you can't drive far then, that would be painful. I had some problems with my lower back from a job for a few years in my early 20's and I wouldn't have wanted to be stuck in a car for hours either! I just made the assumption that you were a totally healthy middle aged guy who thought driving a few hours is hard but yet that Rush doing show after show in their mid 50's is not something to be surprised at. Then that would have been contradictory. As the situation is, it is not! Sorry to assume!

As long as Rush and my other long time favorites will keep putting out great DVD's, what more can I ask. Besides of course, great new LP's:rockon:

Can't argue with that! I love the last Iron Maiden album btw (and most older ones), but I wish they had come here to play. They may still tour, but not so many venues. :tears:

Edriz

01-17-2009, 12:15 PM

Actually, I think they have to card anyone who looks 40ish and under, so I guess I shouldn't feel so good when I get carded. :sigh: But that's good for you! :thmbsp:

I did, however, get carded when I was 27 for buying a R rated DVD at WalMart! I was like, what? I look like I'm 17? Awesome! And the cashier was 20 something herself so it wasn't an older person thinking I looked young, it was a younger person thinking I did! :D

Well now I feel like an ass! :sigh: I'm really sorry to hear that, OF COURSE you can't drive far then, that would be painful. I had some problems with my lower back from a job for a few years in my early 20's and I wouldn't have wanted to be stuck in a car for hours either! I just made the assumption that you were a totally healthy middle aged guy who thought driving a few hours is hard but yet that Rush doing show after show in their mid 50's is not something to be surprised at. Then that would have been contradictory. As the situation is, it is not! Sorry to assume!

Can't argue with that! I love the last Iron Maiden album btw (and most older ones), but I wish they had come here to play. They may still tour, but not so many venues. :tears:

Don't let it bother you, no big deal. Maiden played Rochester on the Brave New World tour. I even think that's the last CD I got from them. I just listened to Powerslave last night.

I used to have that on Beta format and also the Seventh Son tour on Beta. I looked for the Live After Death on DVD but it's expensive on that evil site that every body hates. I may have to get it anyway. My wife and I went to that show in Binghamton,NY. Before the show we were walking around the arena smoking a little... and when we were walking by the tour bus, out walks Dave Murray. My wife was looking in the other dirrection and BAM. Right into him she goes.

He invited both of us on the bus and we talked for about a 1/2 hour. Then he asked us to come inside and we sat front row during sound check. Got pics and autographs from the entire band. Steve Harris took our tickets and gave us 2 front row center tickets. :banana:

Got to run, LP needs flipping.

Permanent Waves

01-17-2009, 07:43 PM

Don't let it bother you, no big deal.

Cool, again sorry.

Maiden played Rochester on the Brave New World tour. I even think that's the last CD I got from them. I just listened to Powerslave last night.

I've never seen them live! I didn't get into them until my 20's for some reason, and the last time they came here was years ago I think. :tears:

I used to have that on Beta format and also the Seventh Son tour on Beta. I looked for the Live After Death on DVD but it's expensive on that evil site that every body hates. I may have to get it anyway. My wife and I went to that show in Binghamton,NY. Before the show we were walking around the arena smoking a little... and when we were walking by the tour bus, out walks Dave Murray. My wife was looking in the other dirrection and BAM. Right into him she goes.

He invited both of us on the bus and we talked for about a 1/2 hour. Then he asked us to come inside and we sat front row during sound check. Got pics and autographs from the entire band. Steve Harris took our tickets and gave us 2 front row center tickets. :banana:

Got to run, LP needs flipping.

Cool story! What an experience, if I even see a tour bus it's back in the walled off area. Not that I really care to meet a band, but it would be cool if it happened.

You've got to check out A Matter Of Life And Death. Great album, one of Maiden's best imo, and another example of an old band putting out some of their best work after decades of being around. :yes:

I'm listening to Somewhere In Time right now. :music:

wilkes85

01-24-2009, 02:40 AM

I love this album! but i agree that it was recorded badly. It really sounds like shit.

Permanent Waves

02-17-2009, 08:50 PM

I love this album! but i agree that it was recorded badly. It really sounds like shit.

Well, it's not that bad. I'd say it's an 8/10, a little compressed/congested sure, but not unlistenable like Vapor Trails. In fact it sounds quite decent on my setup (which is pretty unforgiving): it has a good soundstage if not the widest, good imaging if not the best, and I can even discern the positions of the instruments and background vocals in the mix. The drums are crisp if a bit "tishy", the acoustic guitar is clear if a bit bright, the electric guitar is loud and powerful, and the bass guitar is just fine, articulate and deep. Not bad at all. :thmbsp:

Here's an interesting article on the making of the album as the band and producers see it:

http://www.richardchycki.com/press8.htm

They strove for a "new vintage" sound and pulled it off in my opinion, especially with the songwriting. The writing is so powerful on this album, in fact, that I'd be happy listening to it over a long distance phone connection on a crackling line with someone at the other end holding the receiver up to a boom box that was playing the tape of the album. :D

Speaking of powerful songwriting, Rush might be back in the studio this Fall! :banana: It even sounds like we might get a Double CD! :yippy: This could be a monster of an album. :thmbsp:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=1751

Best quote: "Rush aren't into repeating themselves." :yes: I don't care to have another 2112 or Moving Pictures, nope, new soundscapes are needed and Rush has never failed to experiment and deliver them!

2112

02-17-2009, 11:35 PM

I love Rush as much as you (I guarantee it) but I have to agree the recording is tough to listen to at reference levels. :no:

As A comparison, I listened to the remastered versions of Permanent Waves, Moving pictures, Signals and Roll the bones over the weekend. The first three were lacking in detail but were sooooo silky smooth and musical. Even Roll the Bones didn't have that harshness in the mids and highs. Again, I listened at loud levels; 95-105dbls :smoke:

I love the music on S&A. I think it is one of their best but damn, somebody in engineering had a case of HUA (head up ass). :thumbsdn: I wish they could fix it. :scratch2:

.

Permanent Waves

02-18-2009, 05:43 PM

I'm sure you love them as much as I, and I hope I've never claimed to be the Rush guru or ultimate fan, because I'm not, nor do I wish to be. Some of these people who travel to multiple cities to see them everytime they tour or read everything they can on them just go too far. I love them, listen to them about daily and have for almost 20 years now, have seen every tour they've gone on since I got into them in around '91, have had all their albums since my mid teens (except the ones they came out with later of course), and even have a few shirts and posters. But that's it, I haven't read all of Neil's books or every online or magazine article on them nor do I post semi-daily on message boards devoted to them. I do have other interests. :D

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by reference, but I'm sure you have a better setup than I as I haven't and won't be spending thousands on the pursuit for audio pefection. I have a mix of speakers and receivers and servers, but what I listen to for my "best" setup is a Pioneer 980 receiver, a Yamaha C-750 dvd/cdp, Usher S-520 monitors (which are very revealing), and an Outlaw LFM-2 sub. It's a good sounding low fi or mid fi setup imo. I also have been getting into computer audio so I have recently purchased a Blue Circle Thingee DAC which I have connected to my 980 and Ushers right now in order to discern what it's capable of instead of using my lesser components that I usually use for my second computer stereo. I also have some Senn 595 headphones.

So all of this adds up to something much better than a HTIAB Worst Buy setup, but nothing where I'm spending $1000 on the amp, server, or speakers alone. But it is revealing and unforgiving of poor quality sources, it's accurate and good recordings sound good and bad sound bad. And SnA, imo, does not sound bad, it sounds good, and I enjoy listening to it often. :music:

And in case you think I'm in the Rush-can-do-no-wrong camp, I'm not: Vapor Trails has simply dismal recording. I can hardly listen to it and in fact do not often even though I like the music on it.

As far as other Rush albums, like the ones you mentioned, I think Permanent Waves has a great recording (if a little bright), Moving Pictures very good (if a little warm), Signals is not so good, pretty soft and bloated, but not bad, and Roll The Bones is good, if a little muted or bottom end heavy. Their best recorded albums are probably 2112, Farewell, Hemispheres, Power Windows and Counterparts besides Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures imo.

Oh, and I usually crank Rush also. :rockon:

2112

02-18-2009, 05:54 PM

If I gave you the impression I wanted to get in a pissing contest, I apologize. I just want to confirm I love these guys as much as you do. We are brothers in this regard. :yes:

As far as other Rush albums, like the ones you mentioned, I think Permanent Waves has a great recording (if a little bright), Moving Pictures very good (if a little warm), Signals is not so good, pretty soft and bloated, but not bad, and Roll The Bones is good, if a little muted or bottom end heavy. Their best recorded albums are probably 2112, Farewell, Hemispheres, Power Windows and Counterparts besides Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures imo.

These are very astute observations so obviously you do pay very close attention as do I. I think I am in the Rush can do no wrong category to be honest. I blame some unnamed engineer or bean counter.

I also agree that V.T. was the worst and that S&A is far better, I just wish it was nuts on like Permanent Waves or Power Windows etc.

If the new double CD comes out with the same producer, I hope the recording and mastering gets dialed in.:smoke:

Again, I am with you, just voicing a singular gripe among like thinking individuals.:thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

02-18-2009, 10:25 PM

If I gave you the impression I wanted to get in a pissing contest, I apologize. I just want to confirm I love these guys as much as you do. We are brothers in this regard. :yes:

Oh no man, neither do I! :thmbsp: I really didn't mean that to come off like that! I meant it literally, not sarcastically, I'm sure that you ARE as big (or bigger) of a Rush fan than I. :yes: I was just trying to state that I hope I'm not viewed by others as thinking of myself as some high and mighty Rush lord is all lol. Damn internet and not being able to hear the tone of people's voices! :D

These are very astute observations so obviously you do pay very close attention as do I. I think I am in the Rush can do no wrong category to be honest. I blame some unnamed engineer or bean counter.

Why thank you kind sir! I feel though, that with something so subjective as one's view of recorded music quality, that trying to ascertain with any level of accuracy what is and what is not recorded well or sounds good is ultimately an exercise in futility. Opinion, in matters of aesthics like music and art, trumps all other more objective considerations. If a fan held that Vapor Trails, for instance, was Rush's best sounding recorded album because it was so "raw", then all someone like I could do would be to point out the graphs that show it's horrendous clipping. But that objective measurement would hardly sway his ultimate view about what he hears.

I also agree that V.T. was the worst and that S&A is far better, I just wish it was nuts on like Permanent Waves or Power Windows etc.

If the new double CD comes out with the same producer, I hope the recording and mastering gets dialed in.:smoke:

Agreed. :yes: I was relieved when I heard SnA, but slightly dissapointed after upon listening to it closer that it was somewhat congested or had a smallish soundstage. It even has a few instances of audible clipping. You'd think Rush and the sound dudes would have caught this, but I have a feeling that though musicans and producers, engineers, etc., in the music scene have a keen ear for a great many thing in musical reproduction, that they are also half deaf given the nature of their work! What Rush really needs is to hire some fans who are intimate with their work to come and listen to the recording prior to it's release in order to ensure it is of the best possible quality. Think of how much better VT or SnA would have been if some of the fans in this thread were allowed to offer their input on these recordings before they were too late to fix. :thmbsp:

Again, I am with you, just voicing a singular gripe among like thinking individuals.:thmbsp:

Again, sorry about the misunderstanding and I feel the same. :thmbsp: Rush on! :D

davidk5

02-18-2009, 10:38 PM

Yea, they still sell out some places and fill some well, but there's a lot of places where the venue is 2/3 to 3/4 filled and it isn't a particulary big venue either. Look at this list of the figures for their last tour for instance:

http://www.rushisaband.com/tour.php

Most places do pretty well, but some, like Jacksonville Florida, have only half of the seats sold, and many (most really) other venues have a thousand to a few thousand seats unfilled. :sigh:

20 hours...damn! I thought I was crazy doing about 8 or 10 from St. Louis to Des Moines and then from there to Ames and then back the next day! It was fun though, and Rush is ALWAYS worth it!

well i think a big problem with last tour was a lot of the great tix were $130 each ! that's way too much for any show , they should have topped them out at $49 & i bet they would have filled up most of the 20,000 seaters , i ended up going as the scalpers got stuck with tons , we went for about $35 for 2 seats up close that would have cost me at least $260 with service charges , bands need to wake up & lower ticket prices ...

anyways , the tour was just amazing as always , great set & they played unreal , alex lifeson is still king!

2112

02-18-2009, 11:13 PM

:beerchug::beerchug:

This site needs the "group hug" smiley. :D

Don't U2, Billy Joel, Elton John and the rolling stones charge $500 for good seats? Heck, Celine Dion does. :no: :D

davidk5

02-19-2009, 12:02 AM

:beerchug::beerchug:

This site needs the "group hug" smiley. :D

Don't U2, Billy Joel, Elton John and the rolling stones charge $500 for good seats? Heck, Celine Dion does. :no: :D

yeh celine was charging $700 for some shows ........... this is why i do not see Mcartney , the Who etc. live .
Billy joel actually has it in his contract that all tix have to be under $100 , he was talking about that on howard stern last year .
Bands get too $$$$$ hungry , if other bands can tour at $60 a seat , anyone can ............Kinda a shame prices are so high , be curious to see what happens this summer with a lot of people scraping to get by & now that the evil live nation & ticketmaster are combining :tears:

Tarl Of Gor

02-19-2009, 12:44 AM

I heard that Rush is in the process of creating another concept album like 2112 and I've heard that from more than one source.

Tarl Of Gor

02-19-2009, 12:45 AM

Oh yeah, I saw them at Red Rocks during their "Feedback" tour. AWESOME!

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 01:04 AM

I heard that Rush is in the process of creating another concept album like 2112 and I've heard that from more than one source.

According to what I've heard, from statements by Alex and Geddy, this is NOT the case. Their last producer, Nick R., who is an old school Rushhead is pushing them toward a conceptual album (but then, many of their albums are, SnA certainly was, an album doesn't have to have 10+ minute long songs to be "conceptual"), but I don't think anyone in the band is too into it, they see the rock opera 20 minute long songs as an outdated 70's thing.

I posted this link above, it sums up what they have said about a new album:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=1751

However, they could just be trying to keep such a thing under wraps. :D Personally I don't care if it's a "conceptual" album or not, as long as it is new Rush and good! :music:

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 01:05 AM

:beerchug::beerchug:

This site needs the "group hug" smiley. :D

Don't U2, Billy Joel, Elton John and the rolling stones charge $500 for good seats? Heck, Celine Dion does. :no: :D

Lol, well I'm just glad there are no misunderstandings. Reading my post again I guess it does sound curt, I was just home from work when I wrote it after all. :D

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 01:15 AM

well i think a big problem with last tour was a lot of the great tix were $130 each ! bands need to wake up & lower ticket prices ...

True, but what we'd need to do is cross reference Rush concert ticket prices and attendance percentages with other big name bands ticket prices and attendance percentages and then we could see whether the mediocre attendance at most venues for Rush is due to them fading in popularity or because of the cost of tickets. If other bands cost the same or more and had a better turn out, then it due to Rush finally turning into a "play for beer at state fairs and casinos" band like so many others their age, not high ticket prices. I think they'll quit before it gets to that sad point though.

I think I paid $80 for each of mine, and they were decent seats, about 1/3 back in the center. Just about perfect for me, I'd hate to be really close, I like a panoramic view of the stage and crowd. You'd have to give me a ticket for the first few front rows for me to sit that close, and even then I might just sell it and get one for further back. But that's just my preference.

Either way I'm not spending over $100 for a ticket to any concert, unless maybe it was Rush playing in my backyard for just me and about 50 friends and people I know lol.

SLM3Tech

02-19-2009, 01:51 AM

This (S&A) is available on vinyl. Anyone know if it sounds better than the CD?

:no: The wrong people are telling the musicians and engineers what to do.

Here are 10 questions for the next round of producers, mix/master engineers to work with Rush before they are hired. If any of the answers to any of the questions is "no"... ...they should immediately be told to look for work elsewhere.

1. Do you know what an LP is?
2. Have you ever listened to one recorded before 1980?
3. Have you sat down and listened to the Rush catalog, back to front... ...while not doing anything else?
4. Is lossless the good kind of compression?
5. Is high bit rate PCM better than ring tones?
6. Should compression ever be used sparingly?
7. Is it necessary for the listener to hear everything Neil Peart is playing?
8. Does dynamics mean more than just "really loud" and "really quiet"?
9. Does it matter if you make Rush sound like an emo band?
10. Do you remember the first question you were asked?

:D ...okay, that's my little bit of negativity (dressed up as humor)... BUT, I have a distinct recollection of riding in a friend's car with my brother down a dark street at night and having "2112" just literally scare me, musically and sonically... even on cassette!! "Snakes and Arrows" sonically, just doesn't send any chills up my spine whatsoever. Nothing to do with the music. A real shame. I hadn't bought a new (as opposed to used) Rush album since "Signals" and had high hopes from all the hype. Well... at least, the music is good.

Edriz

02-19-2009, 07:52 AM

:beerchug::beerchug:

This site needs the "group hug" smiley. :D

Don't U2, Billy Joel, Elton John and the rolling stones charge $500 for good seats? Heck, Celine Dion does. :no: :D

Bands and performers that you mentioned can charge those prices because they have a much broader and larger mass audience. Especially among the rich and famous that can afford those prices.

Rush is a "Working Man"'s Band :thmbsp:
And I for one hope they always stay that way :banana:

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 03:59 PM

BroonsBane

02-19-2009, 04:45 PM

Broons has SnA on vinyl and says it's much better, maybe he'll chime in here.

The vinyl is excellent, truly superb sounding. I crank it regularly and find it much better than the cd.

SLM3Tech

02-19-2009, 05:15 PM

The vinyl is excellent, truly superb sounding. I crank it regularly and find it much better than the cd.

...coming soon to a "barter post" near you... 1 copy SnA CD :D

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 05:18 PM

The vinyl is excellent, truly superb sounding. I crank it regularly and find it much better than the cd.

Well there ya go! :thmbsp:

Someday I'll pursue vinyl...

2112

02-19-2009, 06:44 PM

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 09:21 PM

I think Nick Raskulinecz is the best producer they have had since Terry Brown (what ever happened to him?). Yes I love several albums between the two but clearly a fundamental shift here..:D

Tickets up here range from $40 something to $120 and the 20,000 in attendance indicate that it is appropriate for the band/venue.

Bands don't make $ on CD sales, it is in the touring and swag. :smoke:

I agree, Nick is the best in ages, although Kevin "The Caveman" Shirley that produced Counterparts (which as I mentioned is a great sounding album: Loud, Clear, and Aggressive :thmbsp:) was good too.

Here's a little about what happened to Terry Brown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Brown_(record_producer)

As for his relationship with Rush, recording Signals with him they got into arguments about the sound direction Rush was going for as well as the way the album should be produced. Rush decided that they wanted another perspective on their changing sound direction around that time anyway, as they had been using Terry (Broons!) since Fly By Night, 8 albums. They wanted a new influence on their musical direction in other words.

Your ticket prices are the same as mine were for the last few Rush tours. $40 is really not much for general seating, I mean what's $40 these days anyway? Not even eating out and movie for two, like my girlfriend and I.

And yea, bands rely heavily on touring and swag purchases for their income, especially these days when cd sales are down across the board. The end of the cd era is upon us folks, the DAF (digital audio files) era is at hand.

2112

02-19-2009, 10:50 PM

Permanent Waves

02-19-2009, 11:08 PM

Interesting. :scratch2:

I looked at the Wiki link. His resume got light after 1982. DId you see the trivia about his $ deal with Dream theater? :sigh: :smoke:

He has a website too.

Interesting. :scratch2:

I think recently Alex got together with him and just chatted about things, nothing work related, not sure though, thought I read that somewhere...:scratch2:

Edriz

02-20-2009, 08:26 AM

Permanent Waves

02-20-2009, 11:53 AM

Actually, they do make money on CD sales. That's one of the reasons they tour. To promote the new LP. When bands sign deals with Record companies it's because they sell product. If they sell no product, they get no deal!!

No Deal, No Cd's, No Tours, No Promoting, Back to indie AKA the State Fair circuit, Blue Oyster Cult, Foghat, etc.

Well, yea, you're of course right, what I meant was they do not make as much as they do on touring, at least these days when cd sales are wayyy down.

But that's my guess, I'd have to see stats to confirm it. I could be totally off. (I'm hardly a music industry expert! lol).

Oh, and don't forget Styx in that list! :D

Edriz

02-20-2009, 01:37 PM

Well, yea, you're of course right, what I meant was they do not make as much as they do on touring, at least these days when cd sales are wayyy down.

But that's my guess, I'd have to see stats to confirm it. I could be totally off. (I'm hardly a music industry expert! lol).

Oh, and don't forget Styx in that list! :D

Yeah, I'd have to agree somewhat about Styx, but, they are still making new music, as are REO Speedwagon, Heart and quite a few more. I think Styx did a new disc in 2007?

Seen them last year with Boston. YUP, at the NYS Fair.
Also Journey, Heart and Cheap Trick, at the fair. All great shows and not cheap but not bad either. Around $60 each

As for what bands make depends on the deal. They may get something like so much per LP, so much for a number of LP's. One time I remember the Stones got something like 50 Million for a 3 record deal!!!

It depends on the label and band. I'm sure it's different now then it was when I was more involved with people in that business.

2112

02-20-2009, 10:24 PM

I got my info from a Newsweek article on the music business in general. :sigh:

davidk5

02-22-2009, 01:10 AM

True, but what we'd need to do is cross reference Rush concert ticket prices and attendance percentages with other big name bands ticket prices and attendance percentages and then we could see whether the mediocre attendance at most venues for Rush is due to them fading in popularity or because of the cost of tickets. If other bands cost the same or more and had a better turn out, then it due to Rush finally turning into a "play for beer at state fairs and casinos" band like so many others their age, not high ticket prices. I think they'll quit before it gets to that sad point though.

I think I paid $80 for each of mine, and they were decent seats, about 1/3 back in the center. Just about perfect for me, I'd hate to be really close, I like a panoramic view of the stage and crowd. You'd have to give me a ticket for the first few front rows for me to sit that close, and even then I might just sell it and get one for further back. But that's just my preference.

Either way I'm not spending over $100 for a ticket to any concert, unless maybe it was Rush playing in my backyard for just me and about 50 friends and people I know lol.

Yeh i know i had talked to a lot of people who wanted to go but stayed home due to prices last summer .
I can honestly say i too was ready to stay home until there were so many cheap tix scalpers got stuck with .... I think rush can still draw at least 10,000+ a night if ticket prices were right , i think i ended up about 30 rows back which was perfect .

Oh & if RUSH does play in your backyard can we all stop by ? we promise to behave :D

Permanent Waves

02-22-2009, 03:42 AM

Yeh i know i had talked to a lot of people who wanted to go but stayed home due to prices last summer .
I can honestly say i too was ready to stay home until there were so many cheap tix scalpers got stuck with .... I think rush can still draw at least 10,000+ a night if ticket prices were right , i think i ended up about 30 rows back which was perfect .

Oh & if RUSH does play in your backyard can we all stop by ? we promise to behave :D

Yep, with the econonmy in the can it's not a good time to tour. I don't know why Rush decided to do 2 legs of the SnA tour, but I'm glad they did. :thmbsp:

And that's another problem, most of the Rush fans, who attend concerts at least, are middle aged and have seen them lots of times over the years. Some are like me and will never miss a concert, but with others this is not so. This has to affect ticket sales, especially recently as they have done 4 tours in 6 years. I saw each one of course :D, but many saw one or two, thinking: "Eh, I just saw them!"

If (when? :D) Rush plays in my backyard, EVERY Rush loving AK member is most cordially invited of course! :thmbsp: I'll even provide the beer, but byob if you like the regular stuff as I tend to like a little higher end stuff lol. :beerchug: (Chimay is my favorite. :beer:)

davidk5

02-22-2009, 11:20 PM

Yeh , i saw them 3 out of the 4 last tours , i was glad they did the S & A. tour for a 2nd leg as i missed it 1st time around .

No cheap beer for me , i too like the mid to upper ends as well ..... Life's too short for bad muisc & cheap beer :music:

Hey , do you know if that smakes & arrows dvd-audio has a DTS track on it or is it just in dolby 5.1 ?

Permanent Waves

02-24-2009, 07:34 PM

2112

02-24-2009, 11:47 PM

the short documentary on the making of SnA is pretty cool. :smoke:

Very very cool :yes: :yes: :D

davidk5

02-25-2009, 07:28 PM

Lol, life is definitely too short for crap music and beer. :D

I used to drink the mass market swill in college, but then I tried some mircrobreweries and had my tastes elevated. I love Belgium wheat or white beer, including the big brewery kinds when I can't get anything better when out (like Blue Moon and Shocktop, suprisingly pretty good), but Hoegaarden is my favorite. :beer:

That said, some of the higher end Budweiser products aren't bad, like their seasonal beers, and many Sam Adams varieties are pretty good too.

I never listened to crap music. :D

The Dvd package of SnA is mixed in 5.1 "high resolution" audio. I'm not sure if it's in DTS, I don't think so. I am a 2 channel guy so I don't mess with these other formats much. I've heard it sounds good though, and the short documentary on the making of SnA is pretty cool. :smoke:

cool , i'll have to pick up that dvd & check it out .....

Yeh Sam Adams is my usual "standby" that i can get most places , i too love to try smaller Micrbrews & such , really been digging the "dogfish 60 & 90 minute ale" , also my new favorite is "sherwoods forest - sheriffs IPA" & i guess the company i found out is based right here in my town .
I'll have to see if my store carries the Hoegaarden & give it a try .

Edriz

06-09-2009, 10:01 AM

Is this a review of beers , concerts or LPs

I'm confused, as usual. Anyway, I just got the "New" Snakes and Arrows on Vinyl. I just know i'm gonna get lots of shit for this but to me and being a Looong time Rush fan since LP#2, (I really didn't care for the 1st LP) I really don't see all the hoopla. This is a great record but to me all Rush albums are great records. This is typical Rush. Great lyrics. Great instrumentals.

Hell man, it's RUSH. What more can be said. But to me, and this is just my opinion now, even a BAD Rush record is a great Rush record. These 3 men are brilliant musicians, do you really think they are capable of releasing crap.

Hell, I loved "Vapor Trails" They are incapable of recording poor material. This is after all.......... R-U-S-H

davidk5

06-09-2009, 11:05 PM

I bought the Dvd audio , now just need time to listen to it :drool:

Permanent Waves

06-20-2009, 09:21 PM

"I think I'd place Snakes and Arrows among our top three albums."

--Geddy Lee, Classic Rock, April '09

Oh most definitely! :yes:

Number one? Quite possibly. :yes:

DaWoofer

06-21-2009, 01:45 PM

The dynamics really surprised me on CD-2. It was a treat though my tube system. However, I have not listened to it through solid state yet. I suppose it would also be grand with the right setup.

Permanent Waves

08-19-2009, 06:07 PM

Little Rush news update for fellow fans:

Neil is the proud father of a baby girl! :thmbsp: Pretty good turn around from 12 years ago. :tears:

Alex says they (or at least HE) want to get into the studio to start recording this Fall! :banana: He also said that he looks forward to performing more obscure songs on future tours, so of course that means he at least is thinking of future tours as well as playing lesser well known songs on these tours (The Camera Eye? Jacob's Ladder? Please? :D)

Could be a great year (in Rush terms) next year! :thmbsp:

Jailtime

08-19-2009, 09:05 PM

poohsan

08-19-2009, 09:14 PM

doh - I'm such an idiot (no offense to real idiots intended) - my new #1 reason for trading a little island for Germany - the possibility of seeing Rush again! :banana:

How the heck did I miss that one??? :withstpd:

Permanent Waves

08-20-2009, 02:06 PM

Yea, I'll go for new releases over more tours any day. :yes:

Both are great of course, but the one is fleeting and transitory; over in hours with just vague memories of to cling to in the years to come (except for DVD's, but we've already got those!), the other can be listened to over and over again at any moment one cares to, and when it's as good as SnA that's a very wonderful gift that keeps on giving indeed. :thmbsp:

As for obscure songs to play, I've got many (like any other respectable Rush fan :D) I'd like to see/hear played live. Here's a few (besides the two I mentioned above): Marathon, Territories, Fly By Night, Show Don't Tell, Presto, Faithless, Countdown, Chemistry, Time Stand Still. With over 100 songs to play it's hard for them to choose what to include though! (And some they just don't care to play :sigh:).

Bring on the Rush in this next year/year and a half/two years...hell, 5, 10, 15 years...:D :thmbsp:

davidk5

09-03-2009, 09:51 PM

Sweet! new RUSH will be welcome for sure .

Permanent Waves

09-04-2009, 12:39 AM

Little update: Seems Alex is saying Rush will be in the studio in early Fall (this might just mean him and Geddy in their home studios writing though), and a album and tour "by next summer"! :banana:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=1948

This is all still up in the air though; I won't believe it until I have a new album and concert tickets in my hands before Fall of 2010! :D

se7enMMBsg

09-30-2009, 12:31 AM

. . . do not have the time to read every post so sorry if this has been brought up already, but I had SnA for months before I was able to finally get my hands on the "RTI" pressed 2LP version. The artwork and the inserts on this are just absolutely STUNNING.(It's worth getting a copy just for the packaging alone; just a beautiful Gatefold with amazing insert and oroboros's going around the center labels! Niiiiice!) Now I always thought the CD sounded top notch: good seperation of instruments - at least to these ears. Muddiness of sound? Mush? C'mon now! NOT-AT-ALL!(IMO) And I by no means have top of the line CD player.(more like "Mid-Fi/Mid-Line")
Now the dynamics on the Vinyl are just as good as the CD - which is to be expected - but with the added bonus of an enhanced soundstage, even better seperation.

Am I an audiophile? Who the hell knows and, frankly, who the hell cares! I love music, I love listenning and studying the music I like and Love. I agree with all about VT's compression woes, as does the actual band BTW. But to compare SnA with VT sound/compression wise is just something I do not undertsnad, OR HEAR, at all.
~MY 1-1/2 CENTS,
~se7en

Permanent Waves

09-30-2009, 09:20 PM

Haha, great post! :thmbsp:

I agree with much of what you said, especially about the artwork on SnA (well, except for the cover, I HATE the cover!). It's fantastic, perhaps Rush's best yet, and imo they've usually had wonderful artwork (thank you Hugh Syme :thmbsp:).

I myself can't even remember if I was complaining in here about SnA's sound (and I'm not going to go back and read all that either!), but whatever I said in the past I am of the opinion that it is a least good, and imo pretty good. It isn't stellar, but it is hardly VT either!

That said, my main complaint is that there ARE times on this album where there is audible distortion! It's not all over the place like in VT, but still...WTF?! Rush were and are too keenly aware of VT's SQ issues as you said (and they just recently released "cleaned up" versions of One Little Victory and Earthshine on Retrospective III, of which I can STILL hear distortion although it is much less), and then they let crackling occur on this album yet again! Rush and the producer and sound engineer are to be blamed for this, and there is no excuse.

Also, the whole album is lacking some headroom, it isn't compressed necessarily, but something is off. :scratch2:

But, as said, I am satisfied, I just think it could of and SHOULD of been better and I think that instead of hailing Richard Chycki and Nick Raskulinecz as some have, we should hold them accountable for yet ANOTHER defective Rush album. :no: It's not terribly defective like VT, but it is lacking compared to most any other Rush album (for instance, I'm listening to Presto remastered right now, an album that has always seemed to me to be "quiet" recording wise, but it sounds superb and better than SnA in about every aspect--save it's thinner sound; now it isn't even the best produced Rush album, why couldn't Rush have at least attained this level on SnA?!). And that is a tragedy considering how strong of an album it is! :sigh: But at least it is as good as it is. :thmbsp: As you can see, I have mixed emotions on this issue lol. :D

Minor updates:

R30 will be re-released on BluRay/DVD soon, a "full" concert version (it will include the 8 tracks left off the original).

On November 17th "Working Men" will be released, on CD and DVD which will be a "best of" Rush's recent live concerts and thus include cuts from their 3 most recent concert DVDs: Rush in Rio, R30 and Snakes & Arrows Live.

Cool stuff for collectors or those who don't already have these awesome live concerts on DVD/CD! :thmbsp:

2112

10-23-2009, 06:15 PM

2112

10-23-2009, 06:17 PM

Hey Permanent Waves, I like your new signature :thmbsp: did you make it? :scratch2:
.

Permanent Waves

10-25-2009, 09:23 PM

I was one who was belly aching about the recording quality. Part of the problem is that I like to listen to SnA loud. The distortion mentioned and the pre-ringing of the highs are my beef.

SnA on BluRay is incredible. Picture and sound quality are fantastic and I highly recommend it to anyone with BluRay. :yes::yes:

I have really fallen for SnA and although I love all the albums for their own specialness, I do have my favorites and This is one of them. :thmbsp:
.

Have not heard SnA on B-Ray yet (I don't even have a player; I'm not a big movie fan so...). Good to hear it sounds great! :yes:

SnA is an INCREDIBLE album. It may just be Rush's best...ever. It's in my top 5 of Rush at least. (Of course comparing Rush albums is hard since about each one has special attributes and none are really so much better or worse than another, just different and excel in certain areas).

If their next album is as good as SnA, I'll officially set up a church/temple of Rush! lol :D

Hey Permanent Waves, I like your new signature :thmbsp: did you make it? :scratch2:
.

Hehe, no way am I that artistic! It is from a line of Rush sigs/userbars; one for each album. You can get them here:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/Userbars.htm

Btw, probably didn't mention this, Fender has another edition of Ged's Jazz bass now:

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0257702300

Can't afford it? Don't play bass or guitar anyway? Never fear, you can probably afford this and of course can't play it!

Classic version:

http://www.axeheaven.com/Products/Geddy-Lee-Miniature-Guitar-Collectible-288.aspx

Multiple set:

http://www.axeheaven.com/Products/Geddy-Lee-Miniature-Guitar-Collectible-277.aspx

They have Alex guitars too:

http://www.axeheaven.com/Products/Alex-Lifeson--Miniature-Guitar-Collectible-132.aspx

http://www.axeheaven.com/Products/Alex-Lifeson-Miniature-Guitar-Collectible-280.aspx

And even a Neil Drum kit!:

http://www.axeheaven.com/Products/Neil-Peart-Miniature-Drum-Collectible-1.aspx

Gibson also has an official Alex Lifeson guitar:

http://www.12fret.com/new/Gibson_ES-355_Alex_Lifeson_pg.html

Well the Holidays are coming up...maybe I can afford the mini-models! I can add them to my Rush shrine! :D (J/K, I really don't have one! lol)

2112

10-25-2009, 09:59 PM

Hey thanks for all the links!:thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

10-25-2009, 10:55 PM

Hey thanks for all the links!:thmbsp:

No problem; the PowerWindows site is great for Rush trivia and art for your computer (nice user bar! :thmbsp:). Check out the link section there too.

Here's another for just about daily updates on all things Rush:

http://www.rushisaband.com/

2112

10-25-2009, 11:11 PM

Have you checked in over here?

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258859

.

Permanent Waves

10-26-2009, 12:38 AM

Have you checked in over here?

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258859

.

No I haven't, didn't even know about it. :scratch2:

Thanks, but I like to talk Rush with more freedom than this place will allow (non-censored :D) on the wild west of Rush forums: Counterparts.

But really rarely do I talk Rush as I don't really have the time (or inclination) these days...

Permanent Waves

12-03-2009, 09:28 PM

Well this is hearsay and speculation, but based off of what Rush members have said in interviews recently (and my knowledge of how they work as a band), I would say there is a very good chance of a NEW RUSH ALBUM/TOUR in 2010!!! :banana: :thmbsp:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2023

(Ignore the weird/scary fanboi posts there, and for the record I am NOT signed up on that site!).

I will, of course, only allow myself to indulge in a tentative (but reasonable) hope that the above mentioned Rush activities/plans are true until I have seen official confirmation of them, which will be forthcoming soon if this is all indeed true. :)

Time to play some Rush in pre-celebration! :music:

just dave

12-27-2009, 07:44 AM

I'm a big RUSH fan but the albums in the mid 80s to the present IMO with a few exceptions really started going down hill but I've heard a couple of songs off SnA AND LIKED THEM,and reading this thread kinda makes me wanna go out and buy it.Is the rest of the album good, does it have any long jams like Hemispheres or Caress of Steel?

Permanent Waves

12-27-2009, 08:24 PM

Hi Dave!

I can not begin to describe SnA (well, I could, but it would take forever and I couldn't do it better) so I suggest you read this synopsis/review on AM:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:hpfqxzu5ldde~T1

You can also see the song lengths there; there are no really long songs. Don't be fooled by the song lengths though, the whole album hangs together in a pretty tight conceptual framework as the reviewer makes clear. So some songs lead more or less directly into another and all of them are well woven together. Separate songs that stand alone, but work even better in the context of the other songs, played in order IOW.

My opinion, as a Rush fan for about 20 years now (since age 14) who has had and loved all of their albums for almost as long (I had bought them all--at least all that were made by that time: '93--by age 16), is that SnA is definitely in the top 5 Rush albums of all time and rivals their best output for the top Rush album spot. It is THAT good imo! :yes:

And if you like some songs already then I'm sure you'd like all the others for there is really no weak song on the album (if I had to pick one it would be "Bravest Face" which is still at least a good song). It is a VERY strong album. :yes:

Get it! I very much doubt you will be disappointed! :thmbsp:

Sambob

12-27-2009, 10:02 PM

Please do another recording, Rush! :yes: This news has me pumped up for another release, number 19! Will they make it to 20? I sure hope so. And please play "Something for Nothing" on tour! BTW, I have Snakes and Arrows on both vinyl and CD. The vinyl is far superior.

I have to get the CD to get the comparison. I've had the Snakes and Arrows vinyl since it was released. I think there is a lot of dynamics and great sound onthe vinyl...but like I said, I need the CD to compare.

Check out the attachments...

Sam

Sambob

12-27-2009, 10:05 PM

123

just dave

12-28-2009, 08:49 AM

classic carl

12-28-2009, 10:02 AM

The vinyl is excellent, truly superb sounding. I crank it regularly and find it much better than the cd.

I also have the SnA on vinyl. I've been listening to it loudly while reading this thread. It sounds very good. I actually bought the CD after the LP to listen in the car. It's sound good in the car but there is road and engine noise to contend with. I've never listened to the CD on any of my home systems. I also have Vapor Trails on vinyl and although it does not sound as good as SnA, it still sounds very good. I'll be cueing it up next to confirm that last statement.

I've been a Rush fan for 25 years and have seen them about 7 or 8 times. They are definitely one of my favourite bands. SnA on vinyl was a 5,000 copy printing worldwide, according to the site where I bought my copy. I'm not aware of a second printing, but if they were selling it on the band's website, it probably has been reprinted.

This is a cool thread. I don't know how I missed it until now.

classic carl

12-28-2009, 10:08 AM

I bought the Dvd audio , now just need time to listen to it :drool:

A buddy of mine has the 5.1 audio release and it sounds fantastic. I'm not usually a big fan of 5.1 audio, but I borrowed this for a while and was truly impressed.

Vapor Trails is spinning on my TT right now and it sounds as good as I remembered. Both SnA and VT are 180 gram double albums.

Permanent Waves

12-28-2009, 11:45 PM

Thanks Mr.Waves with your vote of confidence and the other review I'm gonna do somethinmg I haven't done in more than 20yrs,buy a Rush album! And if I don,t like it I'm gonna come lookin for ya!:uzi:

Lol, well I have little to fear then good sir, I think you will LOVE it! :D

I'd be surprised if you didn't, especially because you stated you already like some songs you've heard from it. And as this is one of those albums where most songs aren't really so much better or worse than the others but just different (pretty much how I feel about all of Rush's albums: you can't really compare many of them to each other for on each one, in each era, they are trying to achieve different things on them, to grow as a band and not stick to just works best/sells, something the "Classic Rush is the best" crowd can't seem to grasp), then I don't see how you could like the ones you have heard and not like/love the rest!

One piece of advice though, SnA is, like so many other Rush albums, one that takes time to grow on you. I didn't know what to think the first few times I heard it in fact. I liked it, and some songs right away I knew were good (Far Cry, Main Monkey Business, Workin' Them Angels), but thought it was really different. After about 10 listens I really "got it" and marveled that they had made an instant classic as good as anything they ever put out yet again, and 30 years into their career! :jawdrop:

just dave

01-10-2010, 08:19 PM

Permanent Waves

01-10-2010, 09:39 PM

Well I got it the other day and I wasn't very impressed. I thought the levels were way to high especially the bass on Far Cry. I didn't care for the instrumentals esp. Hope. the only songs I liked were Far Cry and Workin them angels,Faithless was ok but it seemed to me like a watered down version of Freewill. Spindrift,Armour and sword and bravest face were terrible.It seems like they just don't ROCK anymore. To me they haven't had a really good album since Moving Pictures. Sorry Waves I tried, maybe next time.

Wow dave, I can't believe you think this way! I'm sorry you don't like it, I thought sure you would! (Especially when you said you liked some songs off of it earlier).

A few things though:

You say you got it the other day, how many times have you listened to it? And I mean really listened, not just put it on in the background and kind of half heard it. IOW: Did you really try? :scratch2: It took me, as big of a Rush fan as I am, 5 times to really start to get into it and by the 10th or so I had an epiphany: This was one of THE best Rush albums ever, if not THE best period.

As for the mix, yea it isn't the best. It's too metallic or thin/compressed or something. But it's not bad either. I can't really make up my mind on it, it's a weird mix. Some things work well and others don't.

You didn't care for the instrumentals?! Main Monkey Business? Malignant Narcissism? Really? And what's wrong with Hope, or do you not like acoustic music?

Far Cry is their best straight forward single since Dreamline imo, and Workin Them Angels is just a very well written song.

Faithless watered down?! If you mean lyrically I think not. It's pretty harsh, and this is me saying that as a life long atheist (so of course I agree with the lyrics: but I wouldn't use the same terms to describe ordinary religious people--fools, thieves, empty vessels--although I will use them for public evangelicals because they so merit them and I think they are what Neil was mostly referring to). If you mean musically it is very different than Freewill. It is not a straight forward rocker like Freewill by any means. It's funny you like it ok because it is probably the "softest" song on the album.

Spindrift ROCKS and so does Armour and Sword (actually every song is powerful on this album). In fact Armour and Sword is one of my favorite Rush songs, it's just a masterpiece. I will say, as I have before, that Bravest Face is the weak song on the album. Something didn't quite work. But it's still pretty good.

Speaking of "rocking" I can't believe you don't think this album doesn't. It's certainly Rush's heaviest album ever. It may not be it's "fastest" in terms of tempo (that might go to Presto), but since when is Rush a speed metal or thrash band? This album is very powerful, strong, forceful (and lots of speed/thrash metal isn't: the guitars are wailing but the whole sound is thin and weak--like Iron Maiden, and I like Iron Maiden). There's no weak old man music here!

I don't know how many Rush albums you have owned since Moving Pictures, but you are missing out on 9 great/good albums since then--10 with SnA-- (including some of my favorites: Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Hold Your Fire, Presto). There is no way Rush stopped with MP or Signals; they progressed and became in many ways more accomplished as musicians, song writers, and performers. They never made a bad album, only 3 mediocre ones: Their debut, Counterparts, and Test For Echo imo. The rest are fantastic. :thmbsp: (Well, Caress of Steel isn't the best either).

All of this is of course jmo and there is no right or wrong here and I mean no insult or condescension. I'm genuinely surprised you don't like it is all. I think you should give it some time though before you resell it. Some of my favorite albums I literally had to force myself to listen to from being to end (I HATED Pink Floyd's The Wall for instance the first 5 times or so, but it's been my favorite Pink Floyd album for over 15 years now) when I first got them. But I'm so glad I did! :thmbsp:

Jailtime

01-10-2010, 10:59 PM

Well I got it the other day and I wasn't very impressed. I thought the levels were way to high especially the bass on Far Cry. I didn't care for the instrumentals esp. Hope. the only songs I liked were Far Cry and Workin them angels,Faithless was ok but it seemed to me like a watered down version of Freewill. Spindrift,Armour and sword and bravest face were terrible.It seems like they just don't ROCK anymore. To me they haven't had a really good album since Moving Pictures. Sorry Waves I tried, maybe next time.

The recording does leave a bit to be desired, the vinyl sounds better than the CD though, IMO. I've always thought that Armor and Sword was Rush's hardest rocking song, ever. When they go into the chorus the last time in the song, they hit that main riff so hard. Well, this is all my rambling opinion, but I really think you should give SnA another couple chances. It took a bit for the album to grow on me too. But there's nothing wrong with liking just the "classic" output from Rush! :thmbsp:

Wow dave, I can't believe you think this way! I'm sorry you don't like it, I thought sure you would! (Especially when you said you liked some songs off of it earlier).

A few things though:

You say you got it the other day, how many times have you listened to it? And I mean really listened, not just put it on in the background and kind of half heard it. IOW: Did you really try? :scratch2: It took me, as big of a Rush fan as I am, 5 times to really start to get into it and by the 10th or so I had an epiphany: This was one of THE best Rush albums ever, if not THE best period.

As for the mix, yea it isn't the best. It's too metallic or thin/compressed or something. But it's not bad either. I can't really make up my mind on it, it's a weird mix. Some things work well and others don't.

You didn't care for the instrumentals?! Main Monkey Business? Malignant Narcissism? Really? And what's wrong with Hope, or do you not like acoustic music?

Far Cry is their best straight forward single since Dreamline imo, and Workin Them Angels is just a very well written song.

Faithless watered down?! If you mean lyrically I think not. It's pretty harsh, and this is me saying that as a life long atheist (so of course I agree with the lyrics: but I wouldn't use the same terms to describe ordinary religious people--fools, thieves, empty vessels--although I will use them for public evangelicals because they so merit them and I think they are what Neil was mostly referring to). If you mean musically it is very different than Freewill. It is not a straight forward rocker like Freewill by any means. It's funny you like it ok because it is probably the "softest" song on the album.

Spindrift ROCKS and so does Armour and Sword (actually every song is powerful on this album). In fact Armour and Sword is one of my favorite Rush songs, it's just a masterpiece. I will say, as I have before, that Bravest Face is the weak song on the album. Something didn't quite work. But it's still pretty good.

Speaking of "rocking" I can't believe you don't think this album doesn't. It's certainly Rush's heaviest album ever. It may not be it's "fastest" in terms of tempo (that might go to Presto), but since when is Rush a speed metal or thrash band? This album is very powerful, strong, forceful (and lots of speed/thrash metal isn't: the guitars are wailing but the whole sound is thin and weak--like Iron Maiden, and I like Iron Maiden). There's no weak old man music here!

I don't know how many Rush albums you have owned since Moving Pictures, but you are missing out on 9 great/good albums since then--10 with SnA-- (including some of my favorites: Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Hold Your Fire, Presto). There is no way Rush stopped with MP or Signals; they progressed and became in many ways more accomplished as musicians, song writers, and performers. They never made a bad album, only 3 mediocre ones: Their debut, Counterparts, and Test For Echo imo. The rest are fantastic. :thmbsp: (Well, Caress of Steel isn't the best either).

All of this is of course jmo and there is no right or wrong here and I mean no insult or condescension. I'm genuinely surprised you don't like it is all. I think you should give it some time though before you resell it. Some of my favorite albums I literally had to force myself to listen to from being to end (I HATED Pink Floyd's The Wall for instance the first 5 times or so, but it's been my favorite Pink Floyd album for over 15 years now) when I first got them. But I'm so glad I did! :thmbsp:

I'll take Dreamline over Far Cry. :D Far Cry is a great tune, but Dreamline has one of my favorite riffs in all of rock. Armor and Sword is indeed a masterpiece, the main riff is astounding. I'll admit I've rattled the walls many a time with this song. :yes: You forgot Roll the Bones in the great albums since MP! :nono: And I really like Counterparts. Animate and Leave That Thing Alone are outstanding. Maybe it was just my low expectations for the album, but Counterparts left me pretty impressed. Here's hoping that Rush has another album in the works, wonder what they can come up with next. Since they never duplicate an album, even though I'd be thrilled with SnA II.

just dave

01-11-2010, 07:12 AM

Permanent Waves

01-11-2010, 11:25 AM

But there's nothing wrong with liking just the "classic" output from Rush! :thmbsp:

No, no there is not! :thmbsp:

And hell, there's nothing wrong with just liking a couple Rush albums, one Rush album, a few Rush songs, etc. or even disliking or hating Rush. It's all one's preference. :dunno:

I just feel that one should really try out a band or album a LOT before he or she decides they don't like them/it and a priori dismisses them/it. Otherwise they could really miss out!

For instance: For years I just thought Bowie was ok, had a few good songs. Well, of COURSE I did because I never bothered to sit down and go through his albums one by one and had only half-heard maybe a dozen of his songs in total. I just recently bought about all of his albums and am now doing this and finding much that I at least like (some stuff that just seems ok--so far at least) and a lot of great stuff that's really good. And this is just with only about one listen per album so far (a few I've had for awhile longer and have listened to several times).

I've done this multiple times with other bands as well; Genesis is another recent group I bought most of the albums of and have found much I like I didn't really even consider before.

IOW: One can not truly judge an album/band until he/she listens to it several times at least and hears ALL their output (several times at least too of course). This takes patience and time, but the rewards are (or can be) lifelong and great. :thmbsp:

I'll take Dreamline over Far Cry. :D Far Cry is a great tune, but Dreamline has one of my favorite riffs in all of rock. Armor and Sword is indeed a masterpiece, the main riff is astounding. I'll admit I've rattled the walls many a time with this song. :yes: You forgot Roll the Bones in the great albums since MP! :nono: And I really like Counterparts. Animate and Leave That Thing Alone are outstanding. Maybe it was just my low expectations for the album, but Counterparts left me pretty impressed. Here's hoping that Rush has another album in the works, wonder what they can come up with next. Since they never duplicate an album, even though I'd be thrilled with SnA II.

In a way you're right, Dreamline is better in a way than Far Cry. It has more of a "classic" Rush feel and is imo a Rush classic (and was when it came out). Really one is not better than the other, just different and awesome in their own way (which is true of so much of Rush's output). :thmbsp:

Armor and Sword is just astounding. It's one of the best Rush songs ever (although there are so many!).

Roll The Bones---I said it was great (/good as the wording goes), just not maybe one of my personal favorites! I just didn't list it or Power Windows as my personal favorites after MP since, well, they aren't (at least as of now; in times past they were more than some other albums I listed).

I used to place Roll The Bones very high in my Rush line up, but over the last year or so it's declined. I don't know why, I used to think of it as kind of a second MP (in style and greatness). It's holds a special place in my heart as well because Dreamline is pretty much the first Rush song I heard (at least REALLY heard as in listening to it over and over at a friends house), it is one of the first Rush albums I bought, and it was pretty popular at my high school (freshman year) at the time (yes it was cool to like Rush! imagine!). On top of all of this I was 14 at the time it came out and just getting into/serious about music. Oh, and of course I identified with much of the lyrical content which helped me find a voice and support for my non-conformist beliefs (or lack thereof) in the somewhat stultifying and hostile environment of the mid-american religious belief system (at least with adults, with my peers it was better: most were not religious either).

Yet despite all of this, and the simply excellent songs on the album (Dreamline, Bravado, Roll The Bones, Hersey, Ghost of a Chance), it is now not a favorite of mine. It is, of course, still a great album. :thmbsp:

Counterfarts, on the other hand (yes, we used to call it that back in high school :D), really let me down. It sounded like Rush was trying to play below their abilities, playing generic radio rock. Many of the songs, when I first heard them on the radio and didn't know who it was, took me awhile to realize it was Rush (when Geddy sang then I knew). I never had that experience before: any other time a new (to me) Rush song came on the radio unannounced I knew it was Rush almost right away just from the musical style alone. Not so with much of Counterparts. :sigh:

It has great songs (Animate is excellent, Nobody's Hero, and Leave That Thing Alone--oneof Rush's best instrumentals), but most are just mediocre in Rush terms. Most of my friends who liked Rush (and, like me, had most or all of their output at that time) were similarly disappointed with Counterparts. I knew it was a bad sign when the album was popular among those who didn't even know who Rush was; Rush was playing to the lowest common denominator (Stick It Out, for instance, is a great song--for Aerosmith).

The production on Counterparts is pretty good though. :thmbsp:

Truthfully what are the best Rush albums after MP? Well ALL of them besides Counterparts and Test For Echo imo. :yes:

Permanent Waves

01-11-2010, 12:02 PM

It took me a couple of listens before I liked the Wall.I listend to SnA twice, I'll give it another go.But as far as there other stuff after MP. well thats a different story. I think its great that they tried to go in a different direction with there music but I would love to see a return to the epic Rush songs(Xanadu, the Necromancer, Jacobs ladder) lets see um put out another album like 2112. Personally I don't think they've got it in them any more.But I enjoy talking to fellow fans no matter what they think. ROCK ON GUYS

Twice?! Dude, at least give it 5-10 listens! :tongue: As I said it took me, ME, about 5 times to start to get into it!

As for their output post MP: Again, I ask, how many albums have you had or REALLY listened to since MP? You don't know how many "old Rush fans" who had stopped paying much attention to Rush after MP who I've sat down and let borrow my post MP Rush cd's (or at least told them about them--some didn't even know they continued on past MP!) and who have subsequently at least discovered a lot of great tunes on them they never even knew existed. Most of them liked the post MP output very much, some AS much as pre-MP, and others even found a new favorite Rush album in the post MP (or Signals) era. :thmbsp:

Mike Portnoy, btw, is one of them (no, I didn't tell him about post MP Rush! lol). He, even for his (and Dream Theater's in general) love of Rush and despite being in the music business where you'd think he know better, was invited to a recent Rush concert (I think on the SnA tour) where they played material from throughout their career and he remarked (paraphrasing from memory here) that he had a lot of catching up to do, that he was wrong to simply dismiss post Signals Rush (his cut off point)! (He loves SnA btw, another "old Rush fan" who thinks SnA is just awesome :D).

As for the epic length Rush songs, meh, they're great, but I (and Rush) have long outgrown them. They are exercises in extravagance and every member of Rush has commented multiple times (since the early 80's on) that they were good for that time of their development and the musical environment, but trying to create new epic length songs and art rock albums post 80ish would just be embarrassing (frankly I would find it embarrassing if Rush had put out another mostly long song length album post early 80's, I would think that THIS would mean they weren't trying anymore). That's what bands that run out of ideas (or only care about $$$) do: try to recreate and cash in on old glory and formats. And that's why so many are not around anymore and put out a lot of crap before they finally quit/were forced to quit (and, at best, occasionally play at state fairs and casinos for beer money with 2 original members), while Rush still is (almost 35 years now) and has always put out great material (never a bad album, NEVER) that has always sold well (and they still fill concert venues too).

Rush never wanted to recreate ANY album, they always wanted to grow and progress in their sound/style/abilities/etc. Some fans realized this and grew with them, others (mostly without really even giving "new Rush" a chance I think) dismissed all Rush albums post early 80's out of some preconceived stubbornness based on song lengths (forgetting that most of Rush's songs had always been shorter in length than 10 or 20 minutes anyway) or that Rush was only a hard rock/prog band and shouldn't dare put out lighter material (as if any fan should dictate what any band can and can't do), forgetting that Grace Under Pressure and Power Windows both "rock" pretty hard (and even the "lightest" Rush albums imo: Hold Your Fire and Presto, also do so at times).

So far from "not having it anymore" (anymore would have to include every year since '82 btw when Rush could hardly be called old and dried up), I think it's precisely the opposite: BECAUSE Rush always had and have managed to maintain such an astounding level of creative ability they have continued, almost 30 years since their last "epic length" song, to come up with a new, fresh, and exciting approach to their music on each album year after year, decade after decade. Not all of them worked so well imo (Counterparts and Test For Echo), but most of them did, and some JUST as well or BETTER than any of their "classic" material. VERY few bands can say the same. :thmbsp:

Anyway, all jmo and again there is nothing wrong with enjoying any (or none at all) of Rush's output! And it is fun to discuss it as well. :thmbsp:

I hope that you will grow to like SnA with subsequent listens. :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

01-13-2010, 08:27 PM

Live_Wire

01-13-2010, 09:13 PM

Permanent Waves

01-13-2010, 09:26 PM

I haven't checked this album out yet, but I was thinking of getting the vinyl release. I'm just wondering if the vinyl version isn't compressed like the CD version is. I have seen the waveforms from the CD version and am not too impressed with how loud it is.

Really am interested, I love a lot of Rush's other stuff. So, just wondering!

I'd definitely check it out, and besides the cd version (which is a bit compressed but I still find sounds at least decent/good) and vinyl version which supposedly sounds "better" (I don't like vinyl--yes I said it lol--so I never heard it, but I've never heard any vinyl sound better than a cd imo), there is the MVI format mixed in 5.1 surround sound (I HATE surround sound so though I have this I don't listen to it) which does sound like a better mix (if you like surround sound).

This album deserved a better production, but it's not bad either and with the material being so damn strong I'm happy to listen to it on the FLAC ripped from the cd. It's at least good enough. :thmbsp:

Live_Wire

01-13-2010, 09:41 PM

I'd definitely check it out, and besides the cd version (which is a bit compressed but I still find sounds at least decent/good) and vinyl version which supposedly sounds "better" (I don't like vinyl--yes I said it lol--so I never heard it, but I've never heard any vinyl sound better than a cd imo), there is the MVI format mixed in 5.1 surround sound (I HATE surround sound so though I have this I don't listen to it) which does sound like a better mix (if you like surround sound).

This album deserved a better production, but it's not bad either and with the material being so damn strong I'm happy to listen to it on the FLAC ripped from the cd. It's at least good enough. :thmbsp:

I'm not one for surround sound. I have Dream Theater's Systematic Chaos in 5.1 and it's cool and different, but I prefer stereo.

I heard a song on Q107 just now from the album. Sounds clear, just compressed (I know the radio station adds it's own compression) so I can't say how compressed the CD is. It's too bad that record companies figure it makes better ratings. Porcupine Tree released Fear of a Blank Planet and it sounds just awesome! Full dynamics :)

I have heard an album on vinyl that was better than the CD version, and that was Backspacer by Pearl Jam. I own both and love the vinyl version :)

Permanent Waves

01-14-2010, 10:58 AM

I'm not one for surround sound. I have Dream Theater's Systematic Chaos in 5.1 and it's cool and different, but I prefer stereo.

I heard a song on Q107 just now from the album. Sounds clear, just compressed (I know the radio station adds it's own compression) so I can't say how compressed the CD is. It's too bad that record companies figure it makes better ratings. Porcupine Tree released Fear of a Blank Planet and it sounds just awesome! Full dynamics :)

I have heard an album on vinyl that was better than the CD version, and that was Backspacer by Pearl Jam. I own both and love the vinyl version :)

Yea I'm strictly a 2-channel guy. Just thought I'd throw it out there because for surround sound it is good.

The sound on the whole album is clear, but somewhat compressed or thin sounding. But yet the dynamics of the album still come through.

I appreciate well produced albums, but what really matters of course is the material. Material first, then SQ. It doesn't matter how great an album sounds if the material is crap, and imo it doesn't matter how bad it sounds if the material is really strong (that's why I still listen to Rush's Vapor Trails with crackling all over the songs, as well as many metal albums which have just horrible recordings). Best is for both great SQ and material, but we all know that doesn't always happen.

I should qualify my vinyl remark: I've never heard a vinyl that sounds better than a properly mixed cd version of an album imo. That means that when I hear a cd that was properly recorded in the first place, or fixed on a reissue/remaster, when I have heard it compared to a vinyl version I thought the cd sounded better.

But this is all subjective and I just like the digital sound over analogue. Granted I've never owned a really good record setup (because I don't care to since I don't prefer vinyl), but I've been around people who have all my life (including my father, and I'd compare my cds to record versions of some albums I owned or he owned). I've also heard many "vinyl rips" of albums to FLAC and always like the cd rip better.

For you I'd recommend grabbing the vinyl of SnA, I think you'll like it! :thmbsp:

Live_Wire

01-14-2010, 12:48 PM

Yea I'm strictly a 2-channel guy. Just thought I'd throw it out there because for surround sound it is good.

The sound on the whole album is clear, but somewhat compressed or thin sounding. But yet the dynamics of the album still come through.

I appreciate well produced albums, but what really matters of course is the material. Material first, then SQ. It doesn't matter how great an album sounds if the material is crap, and imo it doesn't matter how bad it sounds if the material is really strong (that's why I still listen to Rush's Vapor Trails with crackling all over the songs, as well as many metal albums which have just horrible recordings). Best is for both great SQ and material, but we all know that doesn't always happen.

I should qualify my vinyl remark: I've never heard a vinyl that sounds better than a properly mixed cd version of an album imo. That means that when I hear a cd that was properly recorded in the first place, or fixed on a reissue/remaster, when I have heard it compared to a vinyl version I thought the cd sounded better.

But this is all subjective and I just like the digital sound over analogue. Granted I've never owned a really good record setup (because I don't care to since I don't prefer vinyl), but I've been around people who have all my life (including my father, and I'd compare my cds to record versions of some albums I owned or he owned). I've also heard many "vinyl rips" of albums to FLAC and always like the cd rip better.

For you I'd recommend grabbing the vinyl of SnA, I think you'll like it! :thmbsp:

I think I am going to grab the vinyl copy of this album. I need more vinyl anyway hehe

I personally love a good sounding, well produced CD. They sound excellent when done right. I have Boston S/T playing on my Sansui right now :)

I agree with you on sound quality versus music quality. It takes a good artist to make a bad recording sound good, and Rush has done it with this album. I got it last night from a friend for a listen and the music is great. The sound clarity is great on it.

Thanks for the reply mate, gonna buy the Vinyl version today from Amazon.

Regards,
Brian

DaWoofer

01-14-2010, 02:33 PM

I was floored the first time around on Snakes. I waited for the proper mood and lights low and closed my eyes and listened through both disks and was floored by it. One of the best I have heard or the best by far since PW's. Some songs come across quality wise much better than others but damn, how could any Rush fan not be thrilled.

Permanent Waves

01-14-2010, 09:09 PM

I think I am going to grab the vinyl copy of this album. I need more vinyl anyway hehe

I personally love a good sounding, well produced CD. They sound excellent when done right. I have Boston S/T playing on my Sansui right now :)

I agree with you on sound quality versus music quality. It takes a good artist to make a bad recording sound good, and Rush has done it with this album. I got it last night from a friend for a listen and the music is great. The sound clarity is great on it.

Thanks for the reply mate, gonna buy the Vinyl version today from Amazon.

Regards,
Brian

Glad you like it! :thmbsp: It's a huge beast of an album so it will grow on you even more during the coming weeks/months as all it's intricacies, subtleties, and nuances are revealed.

I was going to comment on your avatar, very cool! :smoke: So that's a Sansui in it? Nice! :yes:

I was floored the first time around on Snakes. I waited for the proper mood and lights low and closed my eyes and listened through both disks and was floored by it. One of the best I have heard or the best by far since PW's. Some songs come across quality wise much better than others but damn, how could any Rush fan not be thrilled.

I can't argue much with this, well said! :thmbsp:

Live_Wire

01-16-2010, 09:35 PM

Glad you like it! :thmbsp: It's a huge beast of an album so it will grow on you even more during the coming weeks/months as all it's intricacies, subtleties, and nuances are revealed.

I was going to comment on your avatar, very cool! :smoke: So that's a Sansui in it? Nice! :yes:

It is a good album. Listened to it 4 times now start to finish. The stereo in my avatar is my Realistic STA-2000 :)

Jailtime

01-19-2010, 12:21 AM

In accord with some of what I said above about Rush always wanting to be innovative and change with the times instead of stubbornly stagnant in a particular music style and way of doing things (and thus become obsolete and boring like so many other bands), it seems that Rush will NOT be releasing a new full album this year but instead a few songs instead and then going on tour. And then perhaps a few more songs, ad infinitum (well, ok, probably only for a few years before they are just too old to tour).

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2051

How utterly cool! :thmbsp: I'm so proud of these guys for still changing with the times (albums, at least for mass sales, are on their way out, and this is one confirmation of it) instead of thinking of themselves and their art to be "too important" to possibly alter into a new format dictated by the new reality. (That's for pretentious artists who need to get over themselves :no:).

And yes, of course I know that they probably have little choice if they still wish to produce music and release it commercially as record companies, especially for bands that don't sell "epically" well, are just not supporting full records anymore. But remember that they could have called it quits, uh, 30 years ago and retired quite well. :yes: (IOW: I doubt this change is for want of money.)

Once again, almost 20 years after I became a Rush fan (in their supposed "declining/quitting/middle-aged-too-old period", back in '91! lol), I'm excited to see what they will do next! :thmbsp: What a band! :ntwrthy: :D

Well, this comes as a bit of a disappointment to me. They mean that I can't go out and buy a CD or a nice new bit of vinyl? I'll have to go download it through some internet channel in some format that I probably won't want? Maybe I don't understand the new music market, but I think that releasing a handful of songs once in a while is something that an indie group struggling for recognition would do. Rush has a big enough fan base to justify a normal album. How many platinum albums do they have now? All of 'em? :D But anyway, rant over. Any new Rush is a good thing. And if they tour somewhere near me, I'll forgive them for releasing three songs when we could have a full album. :yes:

Permanent Waves

01-19-2010, 12:52 PM

Well, this comes as a bit of a disappointment to me. They mean that I can't go out and buy a CD or a nice new bit of vinyl? I'll have to go download it through some internet channel in some format that I probably won't want? Maybe I don't understand the new music market, but I think that releasing a handful of songs once in a while is something that an indie group struggling for recognition would do. Rush has a big enough fan base to justify a normal album. How many platinum albums do they have now? All of 'em? :D But anyway, rant over. Any new Rush is a good thing. And if they tour somewhere near me, I'll forgive them for releasing three songs when we could have a full album. :yes:

I understand what you're saying JT, I do. :yes:

However: :D

First, we'll have to see what Rush does. As I said in my OP, it seems that Rush will not be releasing a full album, nothing is definite yet. It could be that they will put out a few songs, tour, then release some more. Possibly all of these could be assembled into an album later besides just released independently on their own accord.

In fact, knowing Rush, they could merely be testing their fans reaction to the idea (which, as predicted, isn't so happy--go to the Counterparts forum for the flame war lol--for the most part).

As for the idea of not being able to buy a new album in a tangible format (which for me would be on cd only), personally I don't really care. I don't need cd's, only a high quality file(s). I've made the switch to digital (FLAC) a few years ago (and I was the last among my friends to do so, mostly from lack of knowledge about FLAC or lossless audio files and how to properly set up a computer as an audiophile quality server) and now all my cd's collect dust (the ones I kept, most I sold back). I never even pick them up, not even the Rush ones! :D Album art work and lyrics can be viewed on line. For portability I use my Cowon D2: I use it for exercising and hook it into my car "stereo". For me cd's are obsolete, I hardly ever buy a new one: I just pick up used ones (which are a bargain now since cd's are on the way out), rip them to my hard drive (and copy them to another), and then sell them back.

That said, if this album isn't released in a high quality lossless format (FLAC), then I WILL be upset. :tears:

I don't think you do understand what is going on in the music world (nor do most here--denial/living in the past is large on this forum), as Neil said, albums are on the way out. It's not the 70's, 80's, or even 90's anymore. Most everyone 30 and under (and even older) these days (and in fact for about a decade now or even longer) merely download a few songs from any new release they like from iTunes and other online music sellers (digital downloads accounted for 40% of all music sales in 2009, according to Nielsen SoundScan) in a crappy lossy format and then go happily on their way listening to them on their horrid iPod ear buds and computer "stereo", complete with a "sub". No more paying for whole albums with "filler"; the masses have always only cared about the "hits" and now they aren't forced to buy a whole album or to wait for Greatest Hits compilations; they get to choose what they buy (download). And that's if they even buy any songs to begin with or just illegally pirate them (which is done on a huge scale; the IPFI, at least, reported last year that illegal downloads were 95% of all consumer album and song usage, and all album sales, digital or other, were down 13% last year--which may have been due to the economy or may not--from an ever decreasing level of sales year after year).

So it's not even a matter of whether or not Rush's albums sales are massive (they aren't), because, EVEN IF they were, album/cd sales have been down so far for so long the record industry just isn't supporting the release of them like they used to. If the biggest artists aren't selling a lot of cd's compared to a decade ago, why would any label support a group like Rush whose albums aren't selling that well anymore (NONE of Rush's studio or live or even compilation albums--besides "The Spirit of Radio"--have even reached gold since Counterparts), and, in comparison to others, never really even did?

I think Rush is faced with the real prospect of having to pay to produce and release their own new album out of their own pockets (which may actually be financially impossible for them) or to go the cheaper more sensible route and release a few songs at a time for an internet direct only distribution. I'm pretty sure their contract with Atlantic is over, and I think they signed with a much smaller company. And if big record companies are not doing well with album sales, how could (or why would) a smaller one afford a mass album release, one of which, btw, is almost guaranteed NOT to even go gold?

Whatever the reason for Rush's likely new way of releasing music I don't think anyone has a right to complain. Rush could have quit (financially) 30 odd years ago and I think of every album/song (and tour) after Moving Pictures as a gift. :thmbsp:

Permanent Waves

01-20-2010, 10:44 PM

Here's a fun site for fellow Rush freaks who are hoping to catch them on the new tour this year:

http://www.rushpetition.com/

You get to vote for 5 Rush songs you want to hear on the next tour. The list is made up of songs that Rush has not played live (at least in their entirety) for 20 years (the 1990 Presto tour).

This petition has been done before in the past (with some different song choices), and I have voted on it before, which is frankly a difficult process for me! :D I started this current list, for example, with 32 selections! That's a full set list! And of course I had to narrow it down to 5 only so I crossed off great songs that I didn't think would perhaps translate so well live (Territories, Heresy, Faithless, Prime Mover, Scars, etc.) and those I know Rush probably won't even consider (much of their early output) as well as those that are at least on some live album already (Marathon, The Weapon, Manhattan Project, etc.). I ended up with: Fly By Night, Jacob's Ladder, The Camera Eye, Countdown, and Presto.

And lest you think this is all a mere exercise in futility, the band is aware of the site and takes the results into consideration when making their set list for an upcoming tour. Just don't expect miracles--Geddy Lee, for instance, has said that he doesn't care how much fans may want some songs, they just aren't playing them (Rush, the "old Rush is the best" types might be interested to know, is somewhat embarrassed by much of their early work, as this recent quote from Neil evidences: "To me, it's raw and immature and all that it should be - it's 30 years ago...A lot of our early stuff does (make me cringe) but on the other hand, I know that it's genuine." - Neil Peart, Jam!Music, Oct. 22, 2006). And with other material that they do think has "held up" to use Alex's words, Geddy doesn't think he can sing well anymore, like the song A Farewell to Kings that Rush rehearsed before the last tour and decided couldn't make work (and so I didn't vote for as it is probably wasting a choice).

Anyway, have fun! :thmbsp:

Jailtime

01-21-2010, 03:00 AM

Permanent Waves

01-21-2010, 02:54 PM

OK, I voted for

-Fly by Night
-In the End
-Something for Nothing
-Farewell to Kings
-The Weapon

There's some early ones in there, and yes, I voted Farewell to Kings. Geddy can do it still, or just tone it down a bit. :D I can't believe that Something for Nothing has not been on a set list in the last 20 years. I could see Rush playing that song with some energy. :yes:

Good choices, well it's impossible for them not to be! :D

As for AFWTK, I was just saying what Geddy said (specifically he said trying to sing that one again shredded his vocal chords). I don't at all mind a toned down Geddy--in fact it's one of the reasons I tend to like later Rush over earlier Rush (really early Rush at least), because Geddy sings instead of shrieks. Who knows, maybe they will decide to play it, but I doubt it.

Something For Nothing was one of my earlier choices as well, but again I don't see Geddy doing it so I decided not to "waste" my vote.

Frankly if they just played Jacob's Ladder (which there is probably a good chance of since they may even play all of Permanent Waves according to the rumors) I'd be more than happy! Hell, just seeing them again is all I need! :thmbsp:

PS: I hope I didn't offend you JT with anything I said in my post about Rush's possible new method of putting out material. It is all jmo of course (although I'd say the balance of the evidence supports it) and could be entirely wrong! Perhaps they will put out another whole album, there's nothing wrong with that at all and I will be happy to eat crow if it happens! :D I just don't personally care how new Rush music comes out I am just so glad they are still coming out with new (and most likely great) music! :thmbsp:

clydeselsor

01-21-2010, 02:57 PM

Vinyl LP version sounds great! I really like this album and have been a huge fan of Rush since 1975!

Permanent Waves

01-21-2010, 10:09 PM

Vinyl LP version sounds great! I really like this album and have been a huge fan of Rush since 1975!

Good to hear yet another older Rush fan likes this album a lot. :thmbsp: It's fantastic for sure! :yes:

Jailtime

01-22-2010, 01:35 AM

Good choices, well it's impossible for them not to be! :D

As for AFWTK, I was just saying what Geddy said (specifically he said trying to sing that one again shredded his vocal chords). I don't at all mind a toned down Geddy--in fact it's one of the reasons I tend to like later Rush over earlier Rush (really early Rush at least), because Geddy sings instead of shrieks. Who knows, maybe they will decide to play it, but I doubt it.

Something For Nothing was one of my earlier choices as well, but again I don't see Geddy doing it so I decided not to "waste" my vote.

Frankly if they just played Jacob's Ladder (which there is probably a good chance of since they may even play all of Permanent Waves according to the rumors) I'd be more than happy! Hell, just seeing them again is all I need! :thmbsp:

PS: I hope I didn't offend you JT with anything I said in my post about Rush's possible new method of putting out material. It is all jmo of course (although I'd say the balance of the evidence supports it) and could be entirely wrong! Perhaps they will put out another whole album, there's nothing wrong with that at all and I will be happy to eat crow if it happens! :D I just don't personally care how new Rush music comes out I am just so glad they are still coming out with new (and most likely great) music! :thmbsp:

Sure is funny that Rush played Circumstances recently, and Geddy hit it quite nicely, IMO. If he can still sing that song, he can do AFWTK and Something for Nothing. :D These two songs are getting lots of votes on the petition, and I don't see Neil objecting to either. But like you said, I'll take any Rush tour. I haven't seen them yet. :tears: And I'm not at all offended by your post, it was quite enlightening actually. You hit some points that I didn't really consider. But I still want a full album. More Rush for my money!

Permanent Waves

01-25-2010, 08:38 PM

Sure is funny that Rush played Circumstances recently, and Geddy hit it quite nicely, IMO. If he can still sing that song, he can do AFWTK and Something for Nothing. :D These two songs are getting lots of votes on the petition, and I don't see Neil objecting to either. But like you said, I'll take any Rush tour. I haven't seen them yet. :tears: And I'm not at all offended by your post, it was quite enlightening actually. You hit some points that I didn't really consider. But I still want a full album. More Rush for my money!

I agree, I think Rush did an excellent rendition of Circumstances on the SnA tour (and it's not one of my favorite songs to begin with), and I think Geddy could sing AFWTK and Something For Nothing and other Rush songs from his more high pitched years just as well now, but Geddy himself does not agree with us it seems, and that, of course, is what ultimately matters. Perhaps he will change his mind...

I didn't know you haven't seen them yet! I'm sorry! :tears: You better catch them this time around! :nono: :D

Glad you're not offended and thanks. That is my take on the issues involved, and, as I said, it could be entirely wrong, but I don't believe it to be as of now (time will tell). I think that people (especially the older they get) are just not comfortable with change or think that if something has been a certain way for years/decades that it will continue to be so indefinitely (and furthermore that it even "should" be). Not so, and this is especially true in our contemporary society that changes very quickly and permanently with paradigm shifts even, if you will. :D

For instance, who could of predicted, even 20 years ago, at the most, that newspapers and magazines could be--and are--going out of business or at least being forced into much more limited circulation (and online only distribution) because of the internet and lack of youth interest? A multi-billion dollar industry (some estimates place it at 35 billion) toppled? But this is exactly what is happening. (I read somewhere that investigative reporters are being laid off at the rate of 1000 a month, and of course newspaper and magazine subscriptions are down dramatically and many daily papers nationwide have shut down). And thinking otherwise--due to stubbornness and/or unawareness--isn't going to alter this reality; it never has or does with such things.

So I was just stating my position and hoping to possibly do some "consciousness raising" as well. :thmbsp:

Btw, if the tracks are priced appropriately, which will be less altogether than an full album, then how will you be getting less Rush for your money--as it won't be the same amount? :saywhat:

Jailtime

01-26-2010, 01:49 AM

Btw, if the tracks are priced appropriately, which will be less altogether than an full album, then how will you be getting less Rush for your money--as it won't be the same amount? :saywhat:

Well, I did score a bunch of new Rush CDs for 5 bucks each at my local CD store. :D

And I missed Rush twice, once when they were only 150 miles away in SLC, UT, and once when they were 300 miles away in Boise, ID. I was prepared to drive a 600 mile round trip to see them, but my car broke down the week of the show. I heard it was a great show in Boise. Now I live in SLC, UT, so I really hope they come.

Permanent Waves

01-26-2010, 01:52 PM

Well, I did score a bunch of new Rush CDs for 5 bucks each at my local CD store. :D

And I missed Rush twice, once when they were only 150 miles away in SLC, UT, and once when they were 300 miles away in Boise, ID. I was prepared to drive a 600 mile round trip to see them, but my car broke down the week of the show. I heard it was a great show in Boise. Now I live in SLC, UT, so I really hope they come.

Ah got ya. :yes: Here in St. Louie you're lucky to get a new cd for under $10 and they are usually between $10 and $15. Of course, as I hardly ever buy new cd's and only used (which are cheap now) that I rip to FLAC and resell, I could be wrong as I don't go searching for bargains on new cd's.

Always living in the middle of a big metro area has enabled me to easily catch every Rush tour since '93. I did drive to Des Moines, Iowa from St. Louis (about an 850-900 mile round trip...but I like to drive so it was a fun little road trip) to see them on the Vapor Trails tour as no one would go with me to see them in St. Louis at the time! :no: So I went to go see an old high school/college buddy/fellow Rush nut who I wanted to see anyway who lived in Des Moines at the time and we drove from there to Ames, Iowa where they played indoors (it was Nov. and it was nice and cold :D) at the smallish Cyclone/Hilton Coliseum (perfect venue size). GREAT show, perhaps the best I've seen. :thmbsp: Surely better than seeing them outdoors (they sound better and the lighting is better indoors imo, making the whole show more intense), yet again, in August in the sweltering humidity of the late St. Louis summer at the show I missed.

Sorry you missed some shows, and hope you can see them this time around (assuming they are touring--nothing is official yet although it's pretty certain). You can go to this link (if you don't already know of it) and see if they have come to SLC (or somewhere around you) on recent tours to get an idea if they will this time or not.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/main/Tours.htm

Permanent Waves

02-03-2010, 12:41 AM

Interesting comment from Neil about the current state of the music industry (and a reason why Rush has been touring so much in the past 8 odd years, even in between records, something they haven't been doing since the mid 80's at the latest):

... "I know that the mechanism that brought us up doesn't exist anymore," he says. "For instance, a perfect example of how reversed it is, in those days we made no money touring for a long time, even into the successful years. You counted on record sales and songwriting to make your living. And touring was a way to publicize that. Suddenly, in the last 10, 15 years all that turned around and our income is entirely from touring, and recording is an indulgence. In a band like Rush, no one's going to pay us to make a record. It's going to be an indulgence. Even Snakes & Arrows basically paid for itself and that's it, and if we want to make a living beyond that we have to go on the road and tour."...

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2065

Now of course I don't think Rush has had to worry about "making a living" since the early 80's (at least in any ordinary sense of the term), but if this is true it's very interesting and correlates (and substantiates) with what I've been thinking about the dying art of albums due to them just not being very profitable anymore, the declining profitability of the music industry in general, and Rush specifically.

Sounds like if we get any new Rush we are lucky as it is just not profitable for them to make an album (and they may even have to pay to produce it themselves if they wanted to make one) but touring is. So if they were totally selfish they would just tour as long as they could and not worry about putting out any new material. But I don't think they are, and they do love to create new music anyway (one reason being they see themselves as always improving, a "work in progress" who have never yet written a song any one of them is totally satisfied with---yes they have all said this over the years), so it seems a few songs here and there for internet direct downloading in between tours is a great compromise. I have no problem with it anyway. :smoke:

Btw, how cool is it that Neil is still studying under drumming teachers 30 years after (and he did in the mid 90's too) being regarded as one of the best drummers ever? :thmbsp: So many lesser drummers have never been so humble (or realistic at least), regarding themselves as "perfect" or "the best" (I'm not naming names! :D) right from the start and needing no improvement. :no:

PS: Imo Neil keeps looking more and more like a mouse! :D

Tedrick

02-05-2010, 07:21 AM

Way late to this thread, but thanks to the reviews poster here, I bought Snakes and Arrows on vinyl a couple months back. Often, it takes a couple plays of an album for me to decide whether I like it, but I found many things to like in this album from the very first listen. I've always liked Rush (seen them in concert 3 times over the years, all in Jacksonville, FL), and this album delivers the goods in a big way.

On the petition, it was tough choosing, but I voted for an interesting, if maybe a bit unusual, selection:

Losing It
Countdown
Scars
Hand Over Fist
High Water

AFAIK, Countdown in the only one that got much radio play. The others are personal favs that I would love to hear Rush play in concert.

Permanent Waves

02-05-2010, 06:14 PM

Glad to hear you like SnA; I blasted it yet again the other night, and, yet again, was just blown away. :jawdrop: Just a fantastic album overall. :thmbsp:

I like your choices of Countdown, Scars, and High Water. The first two would make great concert songs, and High Water is an under appreciated classic imo that is one of my favorites as well (love the lyrical content for one thing; the lyrics could have been written by Richard Dawkins or the late Carl Sagan!).

Here's a few recent interesting rumors for all you fellow Rush freaks :D :

Rush might perform at the 2010 Winter Olympics opening ceremony in Vancouver next Friday, February 12th. They would play a version of YYZ.

One of the new songs they have been working on is reportedly an instrumental called "The Unfinished Business". It's not clear if it is related to "The Main Monkey Business" instrumental on SnA in more than title only, but it has been rumored since SnA came out that the original studio version of The Main Monkey Business was much longer than the version that ended up on the album. I'll certainly take some more of that stunning Rush instrumental/jam fest! :yes:

Tedrick

02-06-2010, 12:12 AM

Here's a few recent interesting rumors for all you fellow Rush freaks :D :

Rush might perform at the 2010 Winter Olympics opening ceremony in Vancouver next Friday, February 12th. They would play a version of YYZ.
That would be awesome. I'll have to be sure and watch very carefully, now...although I probably would have been watching anyway. My wife and I both really enjoy the Olympics.

Jailtime

02-06-2010, 02:16 PM

Permanent Waves

02-06-2010, 07:05 PM

That would be awesome. I'll have to be sure and watch very carefully, now...although I probably would have been watching anyway. My wife and I both really enjoy the Olympics.

Hmmm, wonder if I'll be watching the opening ceremony? :D

"The Unfinished Business" I would certainly approve of a 10 minute instrumental with the energy of TMMB. :yes: My favorite song on SnA, for sure. I'd like to hear another solo acoustic piece by Alex too.

Well if I find out for sure they are performing at the opening ceremonies then I'll post a notice in here. :thmbsp: But you guys know where I get most of my Rush info. anyway and can thus check for updates for yourselves:

http://www.rushisaband.com/

JT: You have a favorite song on SnA? You're a better man (or Rush fan) than I; I can't make up my mind! :D

We'll just have to wait to see what surprises Rush has in store for us this year...:grnbounce

Jailtime

02-06-2010, 11:24 PM

JT: You have a favorite song on SnA? You're a better man (or Rush fan) than I; I can't make up my mind! :D

TMMB just caught my attention from the first time I heard the first riff. There's so much energy in it. It's masterfully crafted, and has a great progression. I just love the tone of Alex's guitar in it too, the main solo is mind blowing. On top of all that, TMMB is one of my favorite test songs. The low frequency abilities of your system will be strained. :yes:

I don't know if it makes me a better fan to have a favorite on SnA. :D It's all so good. Armor and Sword, Far Cry, and The Larger Bowl all come in a very close second.

Permanent Waves

02-07-2010, 11:03 AM

TMMB just caught my attention from the first time I heard the first riff. There's so much energy in it. It's masterfully crafted, and has a great progression. I just love the tone of Alex's guitar in it too, the main solo is mind blowing. On top of all that, TMMB is one of my favorite test songs. The low frequency abilities of your system will be strained. :yes:

I don't know if it makes me a better fan to have a favorite on SnA. :D It's all so good. Armor and Sword, Far Cry, and The Larger Bowl all come in a very close second.

Lol, I was j/k; certainly one's ability or inability to choose favorite tracks on an album or from a band's entire discography isn't a valid criteria of "fandom". I suppose there really are none actually (despite what the conceited and low self esteem fan bois who need to prove how much of a fan they are to strangers wish to maintain), besides simply how much one enjoys a band and how frequently they listen to them (and maybe also how much one keeps up with news about them, discusses them, goes see them live, buys peripheral products, etc....maybe).

I agree with (most) all you stated about TMMB too, and it stood out for me as well on my first few listens to SnA, as did some others (Far Cry, Workin' Them Angels, Spindrift, Faithless, Malignant Narcissism...).

I don't find it or anything on SnA that good for test songs though; the whole sound of the album is a bit "thin" without true deep (subsonic) bass imo. There is bass, of course, but compared to many other albums I have (including many Rush, especially live) it doesn't stand out or overwhelm me much...with one huge exception: the 1:18 minute mark on TMMB when Neil hits the bass drum. That always shakes my house (literally...as in I can feel it in my floors/walls on the other end of my house on a different level) when I have my sub and system cranked. :D

Jailtime

02-07-2010, 02:05 PM

the 1:18 minute mark on TMMB when Neil hits the bass drum. That always shakes my house (literally...as in I can feel it in my floors/walls on the other end of my house on a different level) when I have my sub and system cranked. :D

Exactly. :D

There are albums from Rush that have better quality in the low end. Hold Your Fire is a good example. But Neil does lots of work on those big toms in SnA, you need a dynamic system to reproduce those cleanly at high levels. Like the big roll in Workin' them Angels. I've always liked the drum solo on R30 for low freq. dynamic testing too.

Permanent Waves

02-07-2010, 06:02 PM

Exactly. :D

There are albums from Rush that have better quality in the low end. Hold Your Fire is a good example. But Neil does lots of work on those big toms in SnA, you need a dynamic system to reproduce those cleanly at high levels. Like the big roll in Workin' them Angels. I've always liked the drum solo on R30 for low freq. dynamic testing too.

Ok, got ya. :D

I was listening to HYF last night, and yes there is a lot of low level synth bass on that album (the beginning of Lock and Key for instance, and Tai Shan has quite a lot too throughout). I find Power Windows to have a LOT of drum/synth bass (Territories, Manhattan Project, Mystic Rhythms, The Big Money...hell, every song! :D) and a very clean dynamic sound as well and to be a good system tester. Oh, and the end of 2112 is fun to play to see if your system can keep up! And yea, about every live drum solo from Neil since A Show of Hands at least will pummel you and your system! :D

But for "real" bass (not rap or test cd bass, but still) I put on a Michael Jackson or Madonna album. Holy cow, those things are insane! I have to turn down the volume on my sub (which is only about half way anyway so as to blend with my monitors seamlessly instead of overwhelm them and stay tight, fast, lean, and clean instead of boomy and distorted) when I blast their music! Just about every song shakes my pants like I'm at a concert! In contrast only a few moments in Rush songs really do the same...except when live.

There are many other albums I could mention (Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and The Wall for instance) by many other bands that I use for when I want to blast myself out of my chair or hear bass out in my driveway...but they are too numerous to list. It's certainly fun to hear and feel music, but I also enjoy turning off my sub entirely (my monitors go down to 55hz which, of course, covers much of the bass produced in much music anyway) and also listening to my Grado headphones. Just different ways to hear the same music. :music:

Jailtime

02-08-2010, 12:14 AM

DSOTM - that heartbeat to open the album rocks. :D And I'll admit to rattling a few teeth with The Wall. I have a really good pressing of The Wall on original vinyl, it can get loud at times with the Fisher tubes pushing some 95dB sensitive speakers. Unfortunately, I live in an apartment, so quiet hours disturb my listening time.

Isn't 43 Hz the lowest frequency possible from an electric bass? And I do believe a pipe organ is capable of 32 Hz. But I'm bringing up exceptions to the rule here. I usually shoot for around 40 Hz.

Now back to SnA. I've found that the SnA Live DVD has great sound quality for really pushing your system. Rush's best DVD as far as engineering goes for sure. That's something we can hope for, even if there isn't another full album. If there's a Rush tour, there's likely to be another DVD. :yes:

Permanent Waves

02-08-2010, 08:41 AM

Yea the "Heartbeat" opening will make your own heart rattle! :D I find the climax in Us and Them and Brain Damage even more powerful though. Also the beginning to Welcome to the Machine---holy crap...classic rearrange the stuff on your desk bass! Also the kick drum on The Wall (and synths). Lots of bass in some PF albums. :yes:

If I lived in an apartment I probably wouldn't even own a sub. Sure I play it at a low volume a lot and it supplements my monitors and rounds out the sound on any level, but even on low volumes it goes right through walls and floors. Loud and you can hear it outside. In fact, I actually adhere to quiet times myself (most of the time :D) out of fear that my neighbors on the one side (with 3 small kids) might be able to hear my system. They've never said anything, but if I stand in between our two houses (the side of my house closest to where my stereo is), I can hear both my sub and monitors when they are Rush concert loud (and I have really good windows that seal in/out sound well too). They probably can't hear that inside, but you never know because you can hear bass from those car bass machines that go down the street so.... I also did have a 15" inch sub with amp when I was a teen and living at home and my next door neighbor said she could hear/feel it in her second story bedroom (I was on the first level in our house). But my bedroom was on the end of our house and hers was right on the end of hers too and that thing could blast down walls!

Frequency ranges that certain instruments can produce and what people can hear (and feel which is also important) is a matter of some contention in the audio world (what isn't? :D). I've seen all sorts of different specs for different instruments (bass guitar down to 31hz and pipe organs down to 18hz) so I don't trust any entirely. Generally it is the consensus that usual frequency range a "hi-fi" system should cover is 20-20,000hz just to "make sure you're covered". But my main sub "only" goes down to 25hz; my other smaller one "only" 28hz. My monitors of course go up to 20hz.

Can I hear a difference between my two subs and those 3hz? No, and yes. My "big" sub has a 10" woofer and more watts and it is more powerful and seems to hit deeper than my 8" woofer sub of the same maker with less watts. But this is really due to the spl and dB levels they are capable of reproducing, not how low either sub goes because most hearable and feelable bass is in the 40hz to 200hz range (I think). So it is more important to have a dedicated bass woofer with enough wattage overhead to "cover it" than the size and number of woofers that have to cover too much frequency, from low to mid to high bass and into low mids (I've never personally heard any floor standers that could compete with any decent sub, including several 12 and 15 inch Cerwin Vegas and my friends dad's 15 inch Fishers which were the biggest floor standers I've ever seen!). Otherwise I would have just bought 2 15" subs that went down to 18hz (or lower) and called it a day! But I loved my 8" sub in my main system (it's now in a second one) and my 10" sub is now more than enough (for music anyway...there is the matter of whether larger subs/woofers start to sacrifice some bass articulation for the sake of the "making your change jump out of your pocket" effect). If it wasn't, I wouldn't feel the need to have the volume about halfway and to set the frequency at around 60hz to start to cover where my monitors (which themselves put out a surprising amount of bass that make them great to listen to all on their own) start to fall off dramatically.

Yea, back to Rush! I agree that SnA is their best produced live album yet (although R30 comes close and I love the warm/classic sound of Exit). Do you have the cd verison? That's what I usually listen to. And yes, I'm sure no matter what that Rush will have at least one last tour and subsequent live DVD/CD! :banana:

Permanent Waves

02-08-2010, 06:19 PM

Neil Peart talks about re-recording The Hockey Theme (Canada's "2nd National Anthem") on his website update:

http://www.neilpeart.net/news/index.html

A good read, for those interested, if a bit long winded (remind you of anyone? ;) ).

Permanent Waves

02-11-2010, 05:31 PM

Little update on Rush's (expected) performance at the Winter Olympics opening ceremony...it's pretty much official:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2075

I won't be watching, I'll just catch it on YouTube. (Don't you just love the internet? :D).

Jailtime

02-13-2010, 12:07 AM

Permanent Waves

02-13-2010, 12:51 AM

No Rush tonight. :tears: :wtf: Seemed like it was confirmed to me.

Me too, sorry a-bout that! :D

I was out all night, just got in, but here's some explanation:

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2071

Now at the risk of sounding insensitive, if they cut that whole part out just because some guy flew out of a luger track that's ridiculous. He willingly put himself in danger just by choosing that "profession" in the first place, and did so every time he partook in it. He knew the risk, he took it multiple times, and this time it didn't work out. It's his fault what happened to him did, and although I never like it when a human life is snuffed out (especially so young), there are REAL tragedies (Haiti for instance, or the thousands of children dying every damn day) that thousands/millions/billions undergo everyday/week/month/year ad infinitum through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN (what---did they choose to be born into poverty?!) that I save my limited sympathy and resources (money, volunteering, advocation, etc.) for. Not those so careless and reckless as to chose to do such risky activities (probably out of some ego/self esteem issues they have) in the first place, much less over and over...what do they (and we) expect?

Lol, my gf would kill me for writing that. :D

Now that said, if it was a choice between seeing Rush perform or this guy never having the accident in the first place and thus still being alive, OF COURSE I'd choose the later. In fact, I really don't care whether or not Rush was going to perform or not. I'd just watch their part on YouTube whenever and think "Oh...cool" and that'd be it. But I just think this oversensitive (at a least about those in the limelight---those outside of it who die everyday in our and the world's streets with little champions or media coverage or at least average people caring much to do anything about it) culture has gone way too far. We cry over rich and famous celeb/sports stars/performer's misfortunes while we ignore the plights of the anonymous masses suffering and dying ever day all over the world, some even just miles away. How sick, and how irrational. Sure all human suffering is to be avoided, but there are levels. And until such immense suffering/misery which goes on everyday on such massive scales throughout the world vanishes, then we as individuals and as a society simply don't have the resources (mentally, physically, monetarily, logistically, etc.) to concern ourselves over every individual misfortune that occurs simply because the media covers it, especially when it applies to those who have (relatively speaking) better lives than the vast majority of humankind could ever wish for or ever lived, and befell their misfortune at least partly due to their freely chosen actions/decisions knowing the risk involved.

Rant over. :D