Can I get some Ipod savvy help?

[cabinover]

Bought a refurbished 20GB ipod for my son. It came with a 12VDC car adapter and the USB cable. It did not come with the wall adapter.

I think it's trying to tell me that it's low on battery power. It keeps showing the picture of the wall plug and an outlet.

I thought that these would charge through the USB cable like my daughter's Shuffle. Have I mislead myself? My computer isn't that old (4 years)so I would think that it should be 2.0 compatible.

Call me technologically illiterate:D

I've even tried to reset it but it still wants power. I've got a 220V mig that would probably charge it up.:yes:

[markthefixer]

Some USB hubs may not charge, plus if your computer goes into sleep mode it won't charge...

This might help.... (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60941)

or this (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61127)

[onepixel]

cabinover do you know what generation iPod you got? Sounds like it may be either a 3rd or 4th. What kind of controls does it have? And where did you get this refurbished iPod?

The early models had crap for batteries. My 3rd generation 20 gig iPod's battery just wouldn't keep a charge after a year. This led it to being asked to be plugged in for recharging. If it sat around it just died. Hence the class action suit against Apple.

I have wall plug but can use part of it directly into a firewire port on my Mac for charging. Pretty much the way my Shuffle charges using the USB.

Does it charge with the car adapter?

[cabinover]

I read the part of Apple's site regarding low powered USB ports. I also did some more digging around and found this site.

http://playlistmag.com/help/2004/09/trubipod/index.php

It would seem that I will need the wall adapter since my son tried to restore this thing. It's a 4th generation I think, hell it could be the 51st gen for all I know!

I do know that my daughter's Shuffle will charge right up via USB. Maybe there isn't enough current to do this ipod? Onepixel, the car charger doesn't cut it either.

Thanks guys, guess I have to find a charger tomorrow. Joy, joy! Be a good reason to see what's in the record store I reckon :D

[tentoze]

Sounds like a futzed battery to me, Bob.

[onepixel]

Sounds like a futzed battery to me, Bob.

I was thinking the same thing. Do you have an Apple store near by. Take it to them and have them troubleshoot it. Before you buy a wall charger.

[thedelihaus]

If the car charger isn't doing it, that's a strong possibility of a sign of a more sinister problem.

good news though- batteries are cheap- I picked up one for $11 delivered, brand new, with shipping included, for my 4th gen Ipod.

The aftermarket batteries are also longer-lasting- a bonus.

If it's been refurbished, was it local? I'd go talk to them about it.

There could also be a loose or compromised connection to the battery.

Online battery replacement tutorials can be sourced online, and if you're somewhat gentle and patient, you can replace it yourself.

[whyaskit]

I have a 3rd gen and it will not charge through the usb port. I think that you have to have a 4th gen to use a usb to charge the ipod. Do you know what generation yours is?

I did have good battery for 2.5 years and only recently replaced my battery. I lasts even longer than it originally did.

When I use my car charger it actually will charge my ipod faster then the wall charger. If it is not charging or only lasting a little while I would guess that you need a new battery. As stated earlier, they are fairly cheap and easy to find.

[thedelihaus]

I have a 3rd gen and it will not charge through the usb port. I think that you have to have a 4th gen to use a usb to charge the ipod....

hmmm... that's a possibility. Know anyone who can try charging it off a firewire port? They should have a firewire cable to do so. That would rule out the possibility whyaskit's mentioned.


....I did have good battery for 2.5 years and only recently replaced my battery....

I bought a battery after sleeping on my iPod one night., Thought I killed it. Not at all. Battery still works fine in mine, going on 2 years. I've got that spare in case, though.

My brother-in-law has a first or second generation still on the original battery, and my friend Jesse has a 3rd and fourth both on the original battery- all after years of use. I'm not sure what kills the battery in them, and why some go on forever, while others peter out much faster.

[cabinover]

No, it wasn't a local purchase Paul. It was an e-bay deal from a seller with a 99.6% good rating. I wrote to them and asked my questions concerning the battery's life and what you guys here had told me. We'll see what happens. I can't believe that I don't know anyone with one of those stupid wall adapters. Hell I don't know anyone with an ipod even!! (Except my son and his doesn't work)

[Valsimot]

i wanted to suggest making a wall usb charger (it's not difficult or complicated) but then i saw people are almost giving away ipod wall chargers on amazon. you can't argue with a $0.01 price tag.

[cabinover]

Update:

Tried a wall-USB adapter, did pretty much nothing that I can see. Light turned from red to green on the charger but still had the same wall charger icon on the screen. My guess is the battery is junk. Does this sound right?

Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it!

[thedelihaus]

I'd say either the battery is done, or there's a non-connection.

New batteries are cheap, $11 or so, but you must state the correct model. there may be slight connector differences, and I know for sure there's two thicknesses available- one for the 20 & 30 gigs, one for the 40, 60 and (now with replacement hard-drivss) 80 gigs.

Before I go any further, I know you are not close to me, but if you come down, I'll try to help troubleshoot.

Or you can mail it to me and I can see what I can do.


My guess is yes, the battery is non-active. Or, hopefully, no internal wireing damage- but if it's the original battery still in there, should be a battery replacement.

Try to get at least $20 back from the guy, and if you get a new battery off eBay, we can try to install it at the get-together, or mail 'em both to me and i'll give it a shot assembling it here. I've had a few of these open- and although sometimes scratches are left along the sides (a bitch to open these, despite the tools they give you), I've gotten them all back together.

[onepixel]

hmmm... Know anyone who can try charging it off a firewire port? They should have a firewire cable to do so. That would rule out the possibility whyaskit's mentioned.



I charged my 3rd generation 20 gig iPod yesterday with a Firewire cable and it worked fine.

[cabinover]

I'll see what the seller wants to do with it, it's his baby. I wouldn't mind getting a battery and installing it, I've been inside already and there isn't anything to the job.

One hint for you Paul, a razor blade will slide into the crack nice and clean with no knicks and let you pop the cover's tabs.

[cabinover]

Well I got a reply from the seller.

"Well from what you saying it looks like you have run an ipod restore or update if you do that you will need to connect the ipod to the wall adapter in order to flash. If you don't do that the ipod will take charge from USB port just fine."

Yes apparently my son did try a restore, don't ask me why. Even so shouldn't the charger icon go out when it's plugged into the wall?

And what the hell kind of answer is the seller's anyway? Duh, now you tell me. If my boy had just left it alone....I might have been the one to try and restore it probably.:D

[thedelihaus]

I'd venture a gambling bet and say it's the battery, then. What do you got to lose now? $11 to $18 for a battery, delivered. If it works, you get the added benefit of an improved battery life- not too bad!


Very nice of you to get your son an iPod. sounds like you're a swell dad. Good for you!

[markthefixer]

Sorry guys, I wanted to get a more solid basis before posting, but I can't let that stand...

When he did the restore, the process does upgrades of the firmware in the ipod's non-volatile chip type memory, like flashing a bios upgrade on a PC's motherboard. Interrupting this type of operation in the middle is about the ultimate disaster... it makes a paperweight....

The older ipods REQUIRE the presence of an AC adapter to finalize the process, until it plugs in there is probably an upgrade file waiting around in there somewhere to be flashed. Newer ipods do not require the AC adapter for this EITHER because the electronic circuits were modified, or only the program was modified to allow it to use the power from the USB port while flashing.

I know that the firewire (12 to 25 volts) can supply more than the 5 volts that a USB connection supplies, but I DON'T know whether the older ipod's needing an AC adapter to do it was because it needed a higher voltage, current or just the software (guaranteed uninterrupted power) thing.

It could be that the flashing process interrupts the programming necessary in the USB circuitry to allow it to draw power off the USB plug. Without knowing the actual chipsets and their capabilities used to implement the port it's hard to tell, the newer ipods could have newer chipsets that the power is not interrupted on.

The bottom line is that the battery icon is acting as a reminder of an unfinished process, and until it is finished, the icon is useless to tell you if the battery needs charging. BUT IT WILL CHARGE!!!

That's what the seller ment when he said: "If you don't do that" (meaning plugging in the AC adapter) "the ipod will take" (a) "charge from" (the) "USB port just fine."

[thedelihaus]

MARKTHEFIXER,

If Cabinover mails the iPod to me, by me plugging it into my Firewire wall adaptor, should that clear this up?

Cabinover, feel free to mail it to me Priority, and I'll gladly send it back to you the same way.

Or, maybe picking up a USB wall plug if they're that cheap from Amazon is a good idea, eh?

If I can help any way, just let me know.

[cabinover]

I did try a USB wall adapter, did nothing that I could see. I have no problem ordering a battery or a USB adapter (the one I tried was a borrowed one) but I need this thing to work for the 8th of next month.

My son wanted it for a long boring bus ride to Boston.

I PMed Mark to ask further questions so I'll wait for that reply first before doing anything else. A battery is already on the way. I may have to get one of these for myself if this one works out, I'll already have the battery :D

[cabinover]

That's what the seller meant when he said: "If you don't do that" (meaning plugging in the AC adapter) "the ipod will take" (a) "charge from" (the) "USB port just fine."

I misread or misunderstood his intention then I guess. I took it to mean "If you hadn't screwed with it trying to restore it, it would've charged just fine from the computer's USB.

Thanks for the correction and different view.

[cabinover]

I just learned something that isn't in the DL manual. This icon that I keep seeing after trying to restore or reboot is the "very low battery" icon. That's what it shows before reverting back to the wall charger icon.

I've never seen an icon saying it's charging. That sounds to me like it's either the cable or the battery. I don't believe it to be in the cable as I've found 5V on at least one pin at the connector to the battery.

Sound right so far?

[markthefixer]

I just learned something that isn't in the DL manual. This icon that I keep seeing after trying to restore or reboot is the "very low battery" icon. That's what it shows before reverting back to the wall charger icon.

I've never seen an icon saying it's charging. That sounds to me like it's either the cable or the battery. I don't believe it to be in the cable as I've found 5V on at least one pin at the connector to the battery.

Sound right so far?

Yes...

Was the 5v was on the cable side, coming from elsewhere, not the ipod?

What does the charge icon look like?

edit: nevermind, I found it..., plus the sleeping and wakeup stuff....

Additional information

iPod calibrates its touch-sensitive surfaces when you turn off the Hold switch. Touching the buttons or the touch wheel on a sleeping iPod at the same time that you turn off the Hold switch causes iPod to calibrate to the capacitance of your finger instead of the air. This can cause iPod to turn on but appear unresponsive when waking from sleep.

[Robie]

This may have been covered earlier (no time to read all of the above).

I was given my son's 15 gig, 3rd gen. Ipod. The 3rd Gen. models have a clickwheel with 4 buttons, side by side above the clickwheel. He ordered and installed an aftermarket replacement battery. After much frustration, I discovered it will not charge via a USB cable. It will download and dock with a computer via USB but will not charge. I believe that charging a 3rd Generation Ipod requires connection via firewire or a wall charger (with non-removable/integrated docking cable).

Similarly, the Griffin after market car charger I had was a 2 piece unit. One piece was a typical male cigarette lighter jack/probe with a female USB jack for the docking cable (male USB connector at one end and docking connector at the other). Because this cable was USB based, it also would not charge my 3rd Gen. Ipod.

Lastly, my son advised me, "Never pay attention to the battery status display. It is not accurate." Frankly, I don't use it enough to know.

Hope this helps.

[onepixel]

How was the previous owner charging the iPod?

[cabinover]

Onepixel: I don't know, it was a refurbished product. Read "slightly used"

Mark: The 5VDC was on the pins that the battery plugs into. So it had gone through the USB cable and the connections on the bottom of the ipod, all the way to the battery plug. Probing the back side of the battery plug showed the same voltage so it's going to the battery unless there is a break in the battery wire.

After talking with my son for a while this afternoon he enlightened me a little bit. The machine WAS working when he got it out of the box. The little battery indicator was on in the corner and it loaded into itunes on this computer. He even named the little thing. The restore was done to free up 2GB of space that had been taken. That's when all of this started. It started to restore and then the computer said to plug the ipod into a wall plug.

Now it continually shows the wall plug icon unless you reset it with the Select and Menu button. When this is done it displays the very low battery icon and is asleep (large icon in center of screen), right before it goes back to the wall charger icon.

BTW, I can hear the HD spinning up while the wall charger icon is on. Doesn't do anything but that's a good sign isn't it?

I really appreciate all of the advice/help guys, that's why I love this place! You're all like family.

[thedelihaus]

I've got a firewire wall plug. Remember, I'm only a Priority Mail envelope away if you want me to try it out...

[wineslob]

Deli, what ever you do use the best lossless transfer possible (once you get it going :) ). I did a comparison on my system last year (I Pod was connected to a tape loop) and the compression wasent as bad with the high bit-rate transfers, still there, but listenable.

[thedelihaus]

Deli, what ever you do use the best lossless transfer possible (once you get it going :) ). I did a comparison on my system last year (I Pod was connected to a tape loop) and the compression wasent as bad with the high bit-rate transfers, still there, but listenable.

I agree about the bitrates-

Listening through headphones it's not as big a deal (though I still recommend doing at least 128kbps if not 160kbps).

But hooked up to the home stereo, it's a big deal. Lower bitrates make my setup sound like a boombox, but 320kbps, or even 256kbps, sure makes it sound a heck of a lot nicer.