View Full Version : Question on old Shure cartridges


jazzwolf
05-29-2007, 06:07 PM
I came across a couple of Shure cartridges: M70EJ and M75E. Are these decent cartridges? Are they worth getting replacement stylus for them? I already have quite a few different cartridges but I primarily use my Shure M97XE, Shure M91ED, Grado Black and Pickering XSV-3000. I figured if these are decent cartridges then I'll mount them and get new stylus.

Detailman
05-29-2007, 06:31 PM
A while ago I picked up a M55EM and was in a similar situation.
I think mine is older that the ones you mention. Surprise surprise when I tried it.
To me, and this is all subjective, it blows away the M97xe.
I don't have any personal experience with those you mention but I would think they were probably good stuff.
Are they missing the styli completely?

hakaplan
05-29-2007, 07:49 PM
M70EJ = .4 x .7mil stylus, 1.5-3g tracking force, 20db channel sep.
M75E = .2 x .7mil stylus, .75-1.5g tracking force, 25db channel sep.

Clearly the M75 is the one to concentrate on, although I think the same styli will work in either. I know there are others who've had luck with various places for aftermarket styli. But the only place I can personally vouch for is JICO. They've got an N97ED for $29 and they've even got a SAS for this if you want to spend the money.

That Pickering is a beaut. I have one that came on a turntable I bought. Really excellent cartridge.

How do you think the M91 compares with the M97xE?

herbman1975
05-29-2007, 08:22 PM
I have 2 old Shures:

A "Premier" which I believe is a "Black" (I can't see any other color on it) I think it takes the same stylus as the M75. It has the old Shure logo in gold on the front. I don't have it in a table right now.

The other is a M950ED, which I think takes the same stylus as the M95ED, which was second fiddle to the V15 (so I'm told). It is currently in my PL-518 with a new generic stylus and I think it sounds pretty good...

That site Hakaplan recommended is the place for stylii. I wish there was a site with all the specs for these vintage Shures.

jazzwolf
05-29-2007, 09:08 PM
M70EJ = .4 x .7mil stylus, 1.5-3g tracking force, 20db channel sep.
M75E = .2 x .7mil stylus, .75-1.5g tracking force, 25db channel sep.

Clearly the M75 is the one to concentrate on, although I think the same styli will work in either. I know there are others who've had luck with various places for aftermarket styli. But the only place I can personally vouch for is JICO. They've got an N97ED for $29 and they've even got a SAS for this if you want to spend the money.

That Pickering is a beaut. I have one that came on a turntable I bought. Really excellent cartridge.

How do you think the M91 compares with the M97xE?

The M91ED is an excellent cartridge. It actually tracked a flea market record that the M97XE couldn't. Both were tracking at the same weight (1.25) and the M97XE skipped while the M91ED tracked it without a problem. It became a favorite cartridge since that time. The Pickering is a wonderful cartridge but almost impossible to find an original stylus. Jico has a stylus for almost 90 bucks. I'm currently running a generic PFANSTIEHL stylus on it and although it does sound good I wish I could find an original without taking another mortgage on my house.

hakaplan
05-29-2007, 09:18 PM
I have 2 old Shures:

A "Premier" which I believe is a "Black" (I can't see any other color on it) I think it takes the same stylus as the M75. It has the old Shure logo in gold on the front. I don't have it in a table right now.

The other is a M950ED, which I think takes the same stylus as the M95ED, which was second fiddle to the V15 (so I'm told). It is currently in my PL-518 with a new generic stylus and I think it sounds pretty good...

That site Hakaplan recommended is the place for stylii. I wish there was a site with all the specs for these vintage Shures.
Herb, your wish has been granted....well, sort of. No cartridge specs, but this lists all the carts and styli and the stylus specs.

http://www.toenne-online.de/Dual/discontinued_styli.pdf

As for the cartridge specs, they really didn't vary much. Virtually all were 20-20kHz and the only real difference were channel sep. The better ones (most .2 x.7 ellipticals, hyperellipticals and micro ridge) were over 25db, the lesser models less.

And again the other site you alluded to was turntableneedles.com. They have almost everything, lots of original styli, but seldom cheap.

Herb, the M950ED doesn't appear on the discontinued list and googling it brings up 4 entries, 3 of them yours. All I can find is an M950E which was a clone of the M96LT, a p-mount. Is yours p-mount?

Yes, the Premier Black was technically an M75ED type 2.

As to being second fiddle, the various incarnations of the .2 x .7 ellipticals and the hyperellipticals in the M91, M95, M97 and a bunch of p-mounts like the LT series and the M105/110/111 (and clones) were all similar and all right up there playing second fiddle to the prevailing V15.

ozmoid
05-29-2007, 09:31 PM
Howard, I can't compare the 91 to a 97, haven't heard the latter. I can say the M91ED with a Parts Express Pfanstiehl stylus doesn't leave me running to get a different cart... :D

Good bass response, mellow top end, Channel separation at 25 db, 5 mv output. :music:

hakaplan
05-29-2007, 09:39 PM
Howard, I can't compare the 91 to a 97, haven't heard the latter. I can say the M91ED with a Parts Express Pfanstiehl stylus doesn't leave me running to get a different cart... :D

Good bass response, mellow top end, Channel separation at 25 db, 5 mv output. :music:
Yep, that's what I've heard. May try one myself. I've got an M91ED that I mounted on a BIC I was working on and left it there. I'll have to retrieve it and compare.

BTW, I see that you met and probably performed with Ray Charles (although at first it looked like he was talking to a green bird). I'm impressed. Not many frogs get that far. :D

hakaplan
05-29-2007, 09:46 PM
The M91ED is an excellent cartridge. It actually tracked a flea market record that the M97XE couldn't. Both were tracking at the same weight (1.25) and the M97XE skipped while the M91ED tracked it without a problem. It became a favorite cartridge since that time. The Pickering is a wonderful cartridge but almost impossible to find an original stylus. Jico has a stylus for almost 90 bucks. I'm currently running a generic PFANSTIEHL stylus on it and although it does sound good I wish I could find an original without taking another mortgage on my house.
Jazz, I see a 4500Q for $39 on JICO. I'd lay bets it's the same stylus. I see that peculiarity in JICO's listing from time to time--probably an oversight. For example, the ATN-152LP and ATN-152ML were identical (both Shibata) (I emailed and asked). One was $49, the other $19. Eventually it was corrected and they're now both $49. This may be another "under the radar" situation. I think I may buy one and see.

ozmoid
05-29-2007, 09:53 PM
The PE replacement for the M91ED is around $11 shipped. :thmbsp:

herbman1975
05-30-2007, 08:10 AM
Hakaplan - I would never use a P-mount.

jazzwolf
05-30-2007, 02:22 PM
Jazz, I see a 4500Q for $39 on JICO. I'd lay bets it's the same stylus. I see that peculiarity in JICO's listing from time to time--probably an oversight. For example, the ATN-152LP and ATN-152ML were identical (both Shibata) (I emailed and asked). One was $49, the other $19. Eventually it was corrected and they're now both $49. This may be another "under the radar" situation. I think I may buy one and see.

If you do get one let me know if it fits because I'll definitely get one. Try the M91ED and you'll be surprised. You can get an original Shure stylus for 20.00 with free shipping from here: http://www.jacksmusicfactory.com (http://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/default.asp?productid=8116_Shure_N91ED_Stylus)

lplover
05-30-2007, 02:59 PM
Can you send me the URL for the JICO N97ED stylus?

jazzwolf
05-30-2007, 03:26 PM
Can you send me the URL for the JICO N97ED stylus?


Here it is: http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/ (http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1034&osCsid=86bf2fe3f8a8450e1d14f694b713acbc)

It looks like the stylus is 49.00 instead of 29.00

jazzwolf
05-30-2007, 03:29 PM
M70EJ = .4 x .7mil stylus, 1.5-3g tracking force, 20db channel sep.
M75E = .2 x .7mil stylus, .75-1.5g tracking force, 25db channel sep.

Clearly the M75 is the one to concentrate on, although I think the same styli will work in either. I know there are others who've had luck with various places for aftermarket styli. But the only place I can personally vouch for is JICO. They've got an N97ED for $29 and they've even got a SAS for this if you want to spend the money.

That Pickering is a beaut. I have one that came on a turntable I bought. Really excellent cartridge.

How do you think the M91 compares with the M97xE?

Hakaplan,

Do you know if the N97ED will fit on a M97HE cartridge?

Paul C
05-30-2007, 03:30 PM
Jico N97ED $49.00 (Elliptical)

http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1034&osCsid=86bf2fe3f8a8450e1d14f694b713acbc

Jico N97HE $59.00 (Hyper Elliptical)

http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1035&osCsid=86bf2fe3f8a8450e1d14f694b713acbc

If those two fit and work, then this will, too, N97xE $42.95

http://www.speechtechnology.com/voicerecognition.cfm?URLID=2119

As will this one, an N105E replacement for $38.00

http://www.turntableneedles.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9648


Do you know if the N97ED will fit on a M97HE cartridge?

Yes.

lplover
05-30-2007, 04:30 PM
The N97ED and N97HE are interchangeable. BUT the current M97xe is different and the stylus will not fir the older M97 cartridge.

jazzwolf
05-30-2007, 04:39 PM
The N97ED and N97HE are interchangeable. BUT the current M97xe is different and the stylus will not fir the older M97 cartridge.

Thanks for the info!

hakaplan
05-30-2007, 07:45 PM
Umm...Herb, if you go back and look at your original post, you said M950ED. That's an RM950ED. That R makes a difference. Yes, it is indeed on Shure's list and as you said, it is a clone of the M95ED.

herbman1975
05-30-2007, 07:47 PM
My bad. I was told it was an M95ED, I thought maybe the R and 0 were 'silent'.

Thanks! :thmbsp:

Stanton681EEES
06-01-2007, 03:46 AM
Does anyone know where I can get the nuts in the pictures of herbmans1975 Shure cartridge?
Thanks.

Holst
06-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Does anyone know where I can get the nuts in the pictures of herbmans1975 Shure cartridge?
Thanks.

It seems to me those are the kind that Shure shipped with their carts. They are simply called, slotted round nuts, for either #3-48 or 2.5 mm machine screws.

I remember those because you could catch your fingernail in the slot and hold it in place while screwing it in. It was helpful for guys with big clutzy hands.