[/FONT]Like everything else in the world, things go up and things go down. The opposite is also true, of course.:yes: The best example of this is in the recent trend of Kyocera equipment selling for all the money and more!
The most recent example of this was an R-861 that sold on the bay today for a whopping BIN of $375.:jawdrop: There was nothing special about it. It came with no original box,manual or remote. The pics(what few there were) show a Fine Kyocera unit in good shape. That was good enough to send this man jumping at that $375.00 BIN.:scratch2:
Recently, our own AMPHEAD bought a complete "910 Series" for a thousand dollars!! Heady stuff indeed! And although these were the Kyocera's TOTL, it was still a significant investment in a company that was in the audio business for a few years in the eighties. So the question begs, are these units going up in price because of the rarity of them or in spite of it.

While Marantz receivers are highly prized by many collectors, there are still hundreds of thousands of them. Parts are a'plenty while Kyocera equipment can sometimes lay dead in the water because of a shortage of available parts and techs qualified to fix them. This makes them even rarer I suppose and the futures market for these "antiques" is looking rosey indeed. There are only 3 or 4 known Honus Wagner T-202 cards in existence but that doesn't stop people from spending six figures to get one.:yes:

Our society values that which is the most difficult to acquire(see diamonds and gold) and the fact of the matter is audio enthusiests are beginning to understand that the end of the line is with in view. Saavy speculators are picking up these elegant machines knowing they will easily recoup their output perhaps three fold in the near future. Ask the guy who paid over $200 bucks for a DA-710cx CD player on the bay a few weeks ago. While it's true that the lower line products are still to be had at modest prices, there can be no doubt that they, too, will catch up to their more expensive breathren.

The fact is that this product meets all the criteria we look for in a vintage audio set up. Firstly, they SOUND excellent!:music: Secondly, their build quality is up there with the finest names in audio. There's Nakamichi parts in those Cassette Decks and many units were constructed right out of Nakamichi production lines. Third, they look absolutely fantastic! They are understated but elegant in their design. Aesthetically, they are some of the most beautiful of the older machines. Fourth, their innovations such as MOS FET technology in virtually the entire line down to the humble 461 is impressive. Even more impressive is a vintage audio system with wireless remote control(see RC-101/RT-102)

Last is the limited supply and the eventuality of being able to say, " I got a working Kyocera system" like someone might say I got IBM when it was 2 bucks a share! or I have one of the few remaining Honus Wagner T-202 cards left in existence.

I myself, have a collection I am proud of but not finished with. Although I have most of the pieces I am looking for the wise Kyocera collector keeps a spare unit for parts, there guaranteeing the continuation of the species.

I have no doubt that the the only way is up for a company that twenty years ago got out because they didn't think they could compete. They're competing alright, It just took a couple decades to get to the starting line.

Kyocera
R-861
R-661
DA-910
DA-710cx
DA-610cx
D-811
D-611
RC-101 x 2
RT-102 x 2
Dual Turntable
Ohm Walsh 2's
JBL Northridge
E50's
E30's
Sony
CA7 ES CD Player
and still looking.... [/FONT]

That font makes my eyes hurt and the room spin...

That said, I haven't really paid attention to the vintage Kyocera stuff.

Perhaps now, I shall look at some...

This sure makes a great sales pitch for a Kyocera seller! There are a few potential flaws in the argument, though: for one, rarity alone does not make something valuable; there has to be sufficient demand for supply to significantly affect the price part of the equation. The fence post from the Northeast corner of a particular farm fence in Iowa is one-of-a-kind...but no one wants it any more than any other fence post, so it has no special value.

If it is a trend, is there some other reason behind Kyocera price movements? Other brands didn't last long, but they haven't all been climbing in price. Could prices be influenced by just a few online references (like this thread, perhaps)?

Just musing aloud here...:scratch2:

I'd advise editing your post to get rid of that horrible font if you want for people to actually read it.

Skipped over that post entirely. That font is riduculous for a long post.

That font is like dropping a turd in a swimming pool...:sigh:

Yes Kyocera prices are going up quite a bit... also, there's been quite a few more threads here on AK about Kyocera as well...

Coincidence? You be the judge...

Scott

First of all. let me apologize for that terrible font. It looked good in the curtain, after I posted, there was nothing I could do about it. That said, I must say I feel a certain sense of hostility from MR. Arkay. For one thing I do not have any kyocera products on sale anywhere nor have I ever sold any Kyocera products ever! I have enough of a problem locating the pieces I need or want for my particular collection.
I thought this was a forum where people of goodwill could get together and discuss aspects of Vintage Audio. I read many posts of AK'ers who espouse the virtues of their particular units or systems. I put forth some ideas that I thought made sense and are particularly apt for a thread labeled "Dollars and Sense"
Just because Kyocera may not be Mr Arkay's particular cup of tea should not preclude me from making certain assumptions and putting forth some ideas that you may or may not agree with.
As for your fencepost analogy, [Edited by Moderator] By the way, that fencepost may be of particular value to the farmer trying to keep his cows from straying.
You're right Mr. Arkay, just because something is rare does not make it valueable. But when an item has value, such as performance and is desired by a significant segment of the population, then the item begins to attain an intrinsic value.
I'll quote Achem's Razor, when there are two explanations for a particular question, the simplest answer is likely the correct one. It is more likely that the kyocera units are becoming more desirable because of educated buyers in the marketplace rather than a conspiracy of a single Kyocera user using this forum to artificially inflate prices.
I like these units. I like everything about them similar to the way Marantz lovers(and there are many) love their units. They are aesthetically pleasing, they perform better (arguably) than most of the vintage brands out there. Not all, but most. And the fact of the matter is, there really aren't that many out there. These are the facts I put forth for discussion. People of good minds may disagree, that is what this forum is all about, but to accuse me of shilling a probuct is just plain ignorant.
Thanks for allowing me to respond and I apologize again for the terrible font. It won't happen again.

BTW I edited the font. Hope it helps.
Jeff aka The Capeman

Vintage gear prices, like just about every other commodity, are demand driven. No amount of hyping a poor product that doesn't have a following will build value. One needs not look any farther than the textbook example and market failure of new Coke.

The fact that someone paid $375 for a Kyocera R861 BIN without the emotional bidding "pile on" that some argue raises pricing, is a good case in point that supports demand driven pricing.

Thanks Bigears, I couldn't have said it more elequently.

Rant alert. You've been warned. :D

Vintage gear prices, like just about every other commodity, are demand driven. No amount of hyping a poor product that doesn't have a following will build value.


I can't explain Bose in this context at all. Rediculous TV/magazine bombardment hyping what is a rather nice clock radio into something more.

The brand had recognition from the 901 speaker system. The small thin-walled cubes they sell now do not resemble that product. So sometime in history transference occurred, and a new product (that by definition had zero following) with low objective performance (knowledge ruthlessly surpressed) is widely perceived to have high value.

---[Sam Cogley corrected me here--so I modified my rant thx!]


One needs not look any farther than the textbook example and market failure of new Coke.


Unless there is deception involved. Six months after supposedly re-establishing of the original formulation, the bean counters won--quietly reverting to the cheaper source of sugar that New Coke introduced.

Consumers of useless consumables have a short attention span. Coke proved it. Maybe in part they cause it.


The fact that someone paid $375 for a Kyocera R861 BIN without the emotional bidding "pile on" that some argue raises pricing, is a good case in point that supports demand driven pricing.

I've only heard one Kyocera, an 85 wpc R-851. Nice sound driving a set of a/d/s. What's the WPC on the R-861? I can't find it.

:thmbsp: An AK'er posted this pic in an older post:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47155&d=1176778494

:thmbsp: An AK'er posted this pic in an older post:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47155&d=1176778494

I can get my hands on one of those IF I play my cards right..... Excellent... (spoken like Mr Burns from the Simpsons)

I want to see more of the kitty kat in that picture.

I want to see more of the kitty kat in that picture.

That's not a cat - it's some really esoteric speaker cables... Furby's, I believe.

Kyocera is sorta like Nikko, or the high end Hitachi. It is uncommon, and works and sounds pretty well. I think Kyocera actually is less marketable that Nikko or Hitachi MOSFET stuff. We sold a R-461 for 4150 without the remote a month ago, but it sat a long time. The neat thing about vintage is each of us appreciates different equipment and different sounds, and we have plenty of options!

The brand had recognition from the 901 speaker system. Nothing they sell now resembles that product.

Say what you will about Bose, but the 901 Series VI is still on their website: http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/speakers/stereo_speakers/901_speakers/index.jsp

[/FONT]
Our society values that which is the most difficult to acquire(see diamonds and gold) and the fact of the matter is audio enthusiests are beginning to understand that the end of the line is with in view. Saavy speculators are picking up these elegant machines knowing they will easily recoup their output perhaps three fold in the near future. Ask the guy who paid over $200 bucks for a DA-710cx CD player on the bay a few weeks ago. While it's true that the lower line products are still to be had at modest prices, there can be no doubt that they, too, will catch up to their more expensive breathren.
[/FONT]

Understand that I am a cynic, but this is the central point as I see it.
Diamonds and Gold arent really rare. They are controlled by humans to give the illusion of rarity. (google the history of Debeers)

Are these really outstanding pieces or the next induced obsession.
If I were to judge their pieces, and understand I didnt know they ever made audio, I would judge them by their cell phones, Knives etc.
Standard, Asian made and Ok.
If they made great audio, why arent they still at it?

I must admit, the picture above of that piece is impressive looking.
Is it high quality excellence or something no-one else has?

Id like to hear a piece though for sure.

I have heard that model with a pair of Klipsch F' II's and it sounded awesome! Like I said before, If I play my cards right, I may end up with it.

I have a 710cx. :music: Excellent player, it is currently feeding the "traveling" Dared.

Say what you will about Bose, but the 901 Series VI is still on their website: [/url]

I have corrected my rant above. Thanks for the info.

I wasted listening years as a kid trying to make 301s and 501s sound good. A set of Genesis 1's drop-kicked them to the curb, and I haven't looked back since. :music:

I should thank Amir for making me look for better amps though... :scratch2:

I will say that if a 1800 amp comes my way I'll get it, but no other products with the brand.

What does this have to do with Kyoto Ceramics? I forgot... :arrow:

I'd never heard of Kyocera until a week ago when I picked up a DA 610cx at goodwill. When I hooked it up it distorted and cracked like I was playing vinyl. The more I played it though, the less it happened which is fantastic, but it still happens a little every now and again. It's fine for listening, but I fear it's indicative an impending failure. Possibly the laser is going? If anyone has input, I'd love it as I've grown very fond of this player.

I have corrected my rant above. Thanks for the info.

I wasted listening years as a kid trying to make 301s and 501s sound good. A set of Genesis 1's drop-kicked them to the curb, and I haven't looked back since. :music:

I should thank Amir for making me look for better amps though... :scratch2:

I will say that if a 1800 amp comes my way I'll get it, but no other products with the brand.

What does this have to do with Kyoto Ceramics? I forgot... :arrow:

My parents have a set of Bose that actually sound good. Of course, they're by far the most conventional Bose I've ever seen - a pair of two-way Interaudio bookshelfs that are in use as the surround speakers behind two Eosone 600s and an Eosone center speaker. Those little Bose speaks have been around for years, and I've never been able to fault their sound quality.

On the subject of the original post, I've never encountered Kyocera's audio equipment, but I am curious about it.