I looked to see if there was a thread on this subject and didn't find one, so I am asking all of you your thoughts on the following.

I have come to see that me and my wife like a lot of the same music but that we can like that music for different reasons. We listen to music in a way that is different from each other.

What gathers my attention is the music. How a song is crafted, the simplicity or complexity of a string of notes flowing together to form a song. It can be as simple as a great beat or as complex as 2112 or a Bach piece.

My wife is completly into the message that a given song can have and how the lyrics or words are used to convey that message. It is all about what the song is saying to her.

An example.

Orff - Carmina Burana. If you have heard this piece, it is pure Rock and Roll on a classical vibe. I love the power and delicacy of the music.

She looked up the lyrics, that are in German and Latin, and learned about the Monks and the drinking and the sex that is involved with the piece.

So the question is this. How do you listen? What makes a piece of music great? If you say both, that is the cheap way out!

If I have to choose, the music almost always wins.

John Mellencamp's a good example. The man's always been a better musician than he is a lyricist. On some of his really early stuff, the lyrics are so beyond dumb, they're downright painful. But if you like a classic hook-laden pop/rock sound, songs such as "Night Dancing" and "Sugar Marie" are just about irresistable.

I also really like a group called Elefante. They don't sing a word in English, and I don't understand a word of Spanish. But once again, the music's good and the feeling is there, so I go for it.

There are exceptions, of course. I can't bring myself to listen to Guns 'N' Roses because of the blatant bigotry and misogyny of the lyrics.

And I'm not saying the lyrics don't matter. I can appreciate master lyricists such as Springsteen, Dylan, Jackson Browne and Mary Chapin Carpenter. But in those cases, the words and music are an inseperable part of the total package.

Of course, if Elefante is singing lyrics by Axl Rose in Spanish, that shoots down my theory. But in general, if it's got a good beat and you can dance to it, I'll go along.

If you say both, that is the cheap way out!

But it's the truth :D

I like different pieces of music for different things...not everything has to have awe-inspiring lyrics, and not everything needs to be a virtuoso instrumental piece.

I don't even have to really agree with what the singer's singing about - as long as there's more effort in it than just screaming all the time :)

No contest, the music is what it's all about to me. I have listened to Steely Dan's Deacon Blues a million times and I still don't know all the lyrics. But it doesn't matter one bit. But my wife likes the words. Sometimes we actually sit down and try to figure out the lyrics of some songs. Like Joe Jackson's 'Steppin' Out', for example. It's fun trying to decipher the words, but usually I'm into the overall musical tonality, the arrangement, and the musicianship.

Mostly I listen to instrumentals, anyway. IMHO the music says more than the words in genres like jazz and blues. Weather Report has taken me to other worlds in a transport of musical rapture that words could never convey. Musicians of that calibre say more in one musical passage than most lyricists could possibly relate in a novel's worth of mere print.

Nothing wrong with 'song-poems' by Dylan, Ry Cooder, the Beatles, etc. I like that style, too. It's all good stuff (except rap).

When you seriously LISTEN to music (not just HEAR music) it's more rewarding than any other art on the planet.

I would have to choose the music over lyrics usually. As I get older I realize that much of the lyrical content of alot of the music I grew up listening to is rather silly, but usually the music still holds up.
My wife will like a song because of the lyrics and not really pay that much attention to the music. She mainly listens to Country music because she can understand the words.

I NEARLY posted a similar thread the other day. I think I am a LYRICS man, but having said that, I like a lot of music with no lyrics at all.

This would be a good POLL.

;1227375']But it's the truth :D

I like different pieces of music for different things...not everything has to have awe-inspiring lyrics, and not everything needs to be a virtuoso instrumental piece.

I don't even have to really agree with what the singer's singing about - as long as there's more effort in it than just screaming all the time :)

Actually I believe that the best songs have both going for them. I also like different pieces of music for different reasons. I just see myself as always listening to the music first. :D

When you seriously LISTEN to music (not just HEAR music) it's more rewarding than any other art on the planet.

Totally agree. Live, in my living room, wherever, it is the only art form I will crave. :thmbsp:

I looked to see if there was a thread on this subject and didn't find one, so I am asking all of you your thoughts on the following.

I have come to see that me and my wife like a lot of the same music but that we can like that music for different reasons. We listen to music in a way that is different from each other.

What gathers my attention is the music. How a song is crafted, the simplicity or complexity of a string of notes flowing together to form a song. It can be as simple as a great beat or as complex as 2112 or a Bach piece.

My wife is completly into the message that a given song can have and how the lyrics or words are used to convey that message. It is all about what the song is saying to her.

An example.

Orff - Carmina Burana. If you have heard this piece, it is pure Rock and Roll on a classical vibe. I love the power and delicacy of the music.

She looked up the lyrics, that are in German and Latin, and learned about the Monks and the drinking and the sex that is involved with the piece.

So the question is this. How do you listen? What makes a piece of music great? If you say both, that is the cheap way out!

I am going with the cheap way out, both. It is the honest answer. I think my favorite type of music is one person on one instrument who sings as well.
The Reverend Gary Davis comes to mind.
I tend to like intense loud music that makes my system clip. Music that continually builds and backs off, then builds, etc.... Here the lyrics are less important. Feels So Good by Hot Tuna is like this.
Then you have an LP like Blonde on Blonde where the lyrics are poetry.

yep both and all is the answer.

With me it is the music that catches my attention. The lyrics come later, when I have the time to digest them and find my own meaning within them.

It's definitely the music for me. I do listen to the lyrics, but it's in one ear and out the other. I can't even remember many of the lyrics to favorites I've heard a thousand times. Sometimes I have trouble even understanding the lyrics in a particular song, but someone else picks them out right away. I guess people just hear music differently.

The only time lyrics matter to me is when they're so bad that they distract from the music.

I'm with Andy 200%

I'd say it's a 80-20 rule for me and the music, the opposite for my girlfriend. She's a singer and appreciates the emotion, message, and the voice of the singer. I appreciate that as well, but I appreciate the production value, harmony, and musical talent abave the lyrics

Music for me with the exception of Donald Fagen's lyrics, film like imagery.

Music comes first because I like a lot of music with no lyrics (jazz, classical, etc..). However, really bad lyrics can ruin a song with good music, so that is important, too. In other words, I like Miles Davis AND Bob Dylan (of course his music is awesome,too).:thmbsp:

It's long been established that I am just not a lyrics person -- I am definitely music first. Unless the vocals are the kind of vocals that reach out and grab me by the throat and say, "LISTEN TO ME!!!1!" (And this could be anything from Tori Amos delicate to Nine Inch Nails hard. It just has something to do with the songwriting.) But even in those cases, it's music first.

I actually listen to Tori Amos for her lyrics first but I do like the way that she puts her songs together. One of the few artist that I do that with.

NP - Billy Joel - Greatest Hits Vol 3 - cd

If you say both, that is the cheap way out!Absolutely NOT! The music and lyrics are vitally important to each other - if you can only appreciate one or the other, you are missing out on the point of the music - good music and lyrics compliment and reinforce each other at every step, creating a package that transcends the whole, and serves up drama and emotion in ways that illuminate, educate, and enlighten. :music: Can you tell I'm passionate about my music? :D

Doodledog said the lyrics need to be good, and I will agree with that wholeheartedly. And I'm not leaving out acapella performances or instrumentals, either - both are a choice of the artist, and are an important aspect of how we are supposed to perceive the music. But doodledog also said: the words and music are an inseparable part of the total package.

Occasionally, there's a "cover" of a favorite song of mine that I like better than the original. Not often, but it does happen. An artist takes music and lyrics that are established, and brings a whole new meaning and impact to them through their presentation and interpretation. Joe Cocker's version of Get by with a Little Help from my Friends comes to mind.

Music or lyrics? No way. Not a choice.

Absolutely NOT! The music and lyrics are vitally important to each other - if you can only appreciate one or the other, you are missing out on the point of the music - good music and lyrics compliment and reinforce each other at every step, creating a package that transcends the whole, and serves up drama and emotion in ways that illuminate, educate, and enlighten. :music: Can you tell I'm passionate about my music? :D

Doodledog said the lyrics need to be good, and I will agree with that wholeheartedly. And I'm not leaving out acapella performances or instrumentals, either - both are a choice of the artist, and are an important aspect of how we are supposed to perceive the music. But doodledog also said:

Occasionally, there's a "cover" of a favorite song of mine that I like better than the original. Not often, but it does happen. An artist takes music and lyrics that are established, and brings a whole new meaning and impact to them through their presentation and interpretation. Joe Cocker's version of Get by with a Little Help from my Friends comes to mind.

Music or lyrics? No way. Not a choice.

I also said ...

Actually I believe that the best songs have both going for them. I also like different pieces of music for different reasons. I just see myself as always listening to the music first. :D

I was really wondering what initally draws a listener in to a new piece of music. For me, I hear the notes and phrasing of a song first and then I take in the lyrics. Both are needed to have a truly great song... or even one that will continue to hold my attention beyond a few inital spins.

np - Meatloaf - Bat Out of Hell - cd (this is all about the lyric, for me)

Both...duh :sigh:
exactly why are we being axed to choose????? Anyone who bothers with this Q has never listened to the Beatles, Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Dylan, John Hiatt, Pink Floyd, John Prine, The Tragically Hip, hell, Jim Carroll for that matter.....
Of course there are great instrumental bits and the music is of great, great importance but come on, one with out the other is pretty [edited by me for apparent bad disposition after a long day]redundant...why even pose such a question????

I was really wondering what initally draws a listener in to a new piece of music. For me, I hear the notes and phrasing of a song first and then I take in the lyrics. Both are needed to have a truly great song... or even one that will continue to hold my attention beyond a few inital spins.Yes, but I had to bite on the "cheap way out" line. :D Bait your hook well, expect to catch a fish...

...why even pose such a question????To generate passionate discussion about the impact of each aspect on the listener's appreciation of the music, of course. :music:

To generate passionate discussion about the impact of each aspect on the listener's appreciation of the music, of course.

I know but it reminds me way to much of a better or best kind of thread.......me I am moved both lyrically and musically.....

Bill

...me I am moved both lyrically and musically...Me too, you think maybe that's why we both go for the same stuff? :music:

Me too, you think maybe that's why we both go for the same stuff? :music:
That right....Nugent rules
:smoke::guitar::rockon:

That right....Nugent rules
:smoke::guitar::rockon:

Damn.

Just damn.

Damn.

Just damn.

Scary thought I know.......:nono:

I'm usually a music guy, but listening to John Prine out in the garage yesterday I realized that there are some guys whose lyrics are just wonderful.

...why even pose such a question????

Its just a realization about my own listening habits and I wounder about others. Gear is cool and all, but its all about the music, for me. This is what generated the question. Sorry I asked. :D

Oh, and i didn't ask you to ax anything :D

Its just a realization about my own listening habits and I wounder about others. Gear is cool and all, but its all about the music, for me. This is what generated the question. Sorry I asked. :D

Oh, and i didn't ask you to ax anything :D
Don't apologize...I can be a crabby shit sometimes, especially late after a tough day...this was a good thread for discussion.:thmbsp:

Bill

I was thinking about my friend's telling me once that his wife was a Sinatra fan because of his "styling" and "interpretation" of the lyrics. I always thought of that as the timing and rythm, but after reading this thread I'll bet she was thinking more of the meaning.

It has always been about the music for me. Even when I sing along with a song I just think about the voice as one more instrument and I usually don't think about the meaning of the words.

When I was about 12 one of my favorite songs was The Animals-House Of The Rising Sun (still is). My Mom had to explain that one to me. :huge:

Victor

I dunno I think I was what 11 or 12 when I heard Song Remains the Same by Zeppelin, and frankly I couldn't tell what the hell he was saying for the longest time, except maybe the title, but nonetheless the song is what struck me. I like lyrics too, but really stupid lyrics can blow a good song for me. Like today I was listening to zztop TV Dinners, and the song is great, but the lyrics are just plain, well, there's nothin' else to eat TV dinners they really can't be beat I like 'em frozen but you understand I throw 'em in and wave 'em and I'm a brand new man oh yeah!

When I can't get a song out of my head, it's the music, not the lyrics. Lyrics, on very few occasions, are what bring me to listen to certain music on certain occasions. Like others, I can't remember lyrics to save my life. However, I can play most tunes back perfectly, note for note, years after listening.

I think this was a very good thread to start whyaskit. It is the music to me and like some have said the vocals are just another instrument to me that don't really mean much but put in another color. As I said in my introduction my two favorite types of music are 70's esp jam bands and new instrumental post and hard rock. I actually prefer no vocals in most cases because trying to listen to words is distractive to me. My wife likes the words and likes country music because of it.