As a back up to this long-term project of bringing in an FM station 120 miles away over the air, I thought about streaming its broadcasts off the Net to an input on a Sansui 7070 receiver. Just as a back-up, mind you. I can quit any time ... I'm not an addict.
The first idea was to use Airport Express over the house wiring. Then a buddy said, you have space in your basement right below the stereo, why not put the PC down there and run a wire up from the sound card to the receiver? Stealth streaming ... live! Our basement is dry and cool, a perfect PC environment.
But since the Sansui can probably put out much better sound than the on-board sound card delivers, what would be a good upgrade for the OEM piece? I am looking at a 2-channel system only. What kind of cabling is optimal here? There is about an 8-foot run.
Also, which would be the best jacks on the receiver to plug into. I know the phono jack is exclusively for phono input, but there were fewer components to hook up in the 1970s when the unit was built. It looks like you start prioritizing and cutting as you run out of jacks for the tape deck, the CD, and the sound card.
Finally, does anybody know what are the traps and pitfalls in this arrangement?

Check out the Roku Soundbridge M500-B, or M1000-B at www.rokulabs.com .

You can be playing internet radio streams for less than $100, and not have to leave your energy hungry PC turned on all the time.

For optimal sound quality, use the Roku in conjunction with the DAC of your choice.

If you use a DAC that supports multiple digital inputs, you can also resolve some of your concerns about insufficient inputs on your system.

I use a standard RCA cable with a stereo jack ending to stream between an
audigy2 zs soundcard and an old marantz 1070. Does a good job.
A pc usually draws like under 100watt if you are only streaming music.

I use the Monster brand version of the RCA cable with the small, Ipod-like end (2.5'?). I plug the "Ipod" end into the headphone out port and the RCA cables (L&R) into my "aux" line of my Yamaha CR 620 at work. I stream Internet audio or play music files from my hard drive. Cheap and effective.

If you are playing internet audio streams, your OEM soundcard won't be taxed, assuming it's fairly quiet. I'd go with a high quality shielded stereo cable from the PC to your AUX inputs.

If you're talking about getting good sound from your PC you should look ar a USB DAC and ripping your CD's to a lossless format.

I would use shielded RCA cable for the run from your PC to the stereo AUX inputs. If they are going to be run off of different power strips you will probably need a ground loop isolator to eliminate the potential between them. You will also need an RCA-> 1/8" minijack splitter because I am assuming your sound card does not have discrete RCA outputs. This will cost you a 3dB loss as I understand it, too. The ground loop isolator will probably also cost you in both quality and power, but thats dependent on which one you use. I have had decent luck with the RadioShack brand.

Streaming audio from a website is probably going to be pretty compressed anyhow, so whether you go tethered or use a roku/lyra/airport express/whatever I dont think it will make an audible difference.

The Roku Soundbridge models sound like a great solution, but recent versions have received a few bad reviews on Amazon for poor quality and support. Which is too bad because it seems like the ideal component.
Xoaphexox, are ground loop isolators pretty standard or are some to be avoided? Radio Shack's ($16.99) reportedly comes with a mini-jack adaptor.

The ground loop isolator will probably also cost you in both quality and power, but thats dependent on which one you use. I have had decent luck with the RadioShack brand.



I needed one as well in my application and as I recall it came with the mini to rca adaptor. It definitely took care of the hum I was experiencing

Make certain that the computer and stereo are on the same power circuit. Odds are almost certain you will get a ground loop hum without doing that, and isolators are generally a poor solution. Google that RS loop isolator, and see what it does to your audio signal -- just brutal.

Any decent soundcard made these days should work well for your application, but you should pursue a USB or other standalone-box type. I've used a Creative Audigy 2ZS Pro card for ages, and it produces great sound, no problems -- dead silent on the noise floor, too. Is has a remote control, and is standalone from the computer, which would work well for you, as the computer will be in another room from the stereo. :) More convenient to have your play/ff/volume/etc on a remote, rather than running downstairs to change tracks.

Any Aux/ tape input will work just fine. I've been running my vintage setup with a computer input for years, and it's a nice option to have. :thmbsp:

In summation, your choices seem to be either running the PC and the amp off the same power circuit or using an over-the-air setup like the airport express you already have. The quality loss from the ground loop isolator, coupled with the already-compressed mp3 signal kind of negates the potentially awesome sound the Sansui will put out.

Besides my TT, the only audio I listen to is MP3. I own an airport express but I use Winamp for listening because I *love* the library feature it comes with.

To get around the iTunes-only Airport Express issue, you can easily set up a shoutcast server on your home PC. This way you can play your music in Winamp, which broadcasts it over the shoutcast server. Then you simply open iTunes and tune in to the local shoutcast server! 127.0.0.1:8080 or whatever you choose to have as the port. If you want to go this route I could be of more help but for now I will shut it.

Good luck with whatever you do choose!

Lurking in between my puter and my Luxman R-1050 I have a technics SH-8020 eq and a Pioneer RG-2 range expander. It does wonders for skinny streams.

Squeezebox - especially if sound quality is important.

Squeezebox is my hero. I love this thing.

Evan

Believe it or not, there is a piece of software called "DFX Audio enhancer" that will also do wonders for streaming audio, or any audio at all for that matter.

http://www.fxsound.com/dfx/index.php?vendor=0&subvendor=0&plus=0&refer=0

SqueezeBox is the one and only. Anything else and you're just fooling yourself..........

http://www.xitel.com/USA/prod_hflpc.htm


The HiFI Link is an option. I use it with my laptop, but there's something weird with my USB ports because I get a hiss when a song is playing, although it's dead silent when there's no signal. It's not ground loop. Works well with other people's computers though.

That HiFi link looks interesting, correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't you still need a ground loop isolator for that if the PC was on a different power circuit than the stereo? From what I read (homepage) it looks like its just a USB DAC.

I have a setup similar to what you are planning except mine is much more involved. I feed my computers sound to the HT system in the living room through a common wall adjacent to the computer room. The difference is I got carried away and kind of over did it I suppose!

I take a mini stereo to Phono plug adapter from the Soundblaster soundcard on the computer to an HK 730 receiver next to it in the computer room. I used the AUX input on the HK. BUT.... I also hooked a reel to reel - a turntable - a minidisc player - a HiFi VCR - and a 100 disc CD player to the HK! Then I sent the tape out signal from the HK to the living room via a 6 foot patch cord to a stereo RCA plate on the wall that goes to another one in the living room behind the big HT system. It's signal enters the HT system on an AUX input too. Now whatever I play on the computer room system can be heard on the living room system. In other words...I chose to have the clutter in my computer/spare bedroom instead of the living room.

I have also thought about purchasing one of those remote extension systems so I can control the CD player and minidisc from the living room. The read eye would go in the living room wall which feeds to a box that distributes signals to the components in the computer room system.

Eventually I hope to hang a big screen in the living room with only the video source equipment (sat receiver and DVD player) and receiver there. Makes for a clean main system but a potentially cluttered control room. However, nice strong tall racks keep things much more organized.

If you have 2 vintage receivers and want a little mancave corner in the basement you could copy the design of this system. Then whatever you play from the basement you can hear in the living room. Use a nice shielded monster cable or such to take the signal from source to source. It's nice to listen to the hundreds of music sources that a computer offers on your main system but it's also nice to have a system at your computer too. this way you get both and you have more stuff to play with!:D Best! Franksta

As a back up to this long-term project of bringing in an FM station 120 miles away over the air, I thought about streaming its broadcasts off the Net to an input on a Sansui 7070 receiver. Just as a back-up, mind you. I can quit any time ... I'm not an addict.
The first idea was to use Airport Express over the house wiring. Then a buddy said, you have space in your basement right below the stereo, why not put the PC down there and run a wire up from the sound card to the receiver? Stealth streaming ... live! Our basement is dry and cool, a perfect PC environment.
But since the Sansui can probably put out much better sound than the on-board sound card delivers, what would be a good upgrade for the OEM piece? I am looking at a 2-channel system only. What kind of cabling is optimal here? There is about an 8-foot run.
Also, which would be the best jacks on the receiver to plug into. I know the phono jack is exclusively for phono input, but there were fewer components to hook up in the 1970s when the unit was built. It looks like you start prioritizing and cutting as you run out of jacks for the tape deck, the CD, and the sound card.
Finally, does anybody know what are the traps and pitfalls in this arrangement?

I use a low-end VAIO laptop w/ USB soundcard functionally identical to the Xitel. My laptop is actually part of my audio stack and I use Winamp as my player. There are literally 10's of 1,000's independent streams to choose from. When you factor terrestrial radio stations that stream into it, the number is astronomical.

Having the laptop right where my stack is let's me search for "stations" either by going directly to the Shoutcast website or just using Google. With Winamp running it is virtually silent and there is no issue of a ground loop or other noise. I've got under $200 into the whole rig and it has been in place since mid-2003. Audio quality is outstanding, better than FM, and this system is on 8-10 hours per day. Hopefully the recent CRB ruling will be smacked down and we can all continue enjoying this spectacular format.

In fact, we have a $10 garage sale laptop (no kidding) in the living room on wifi that we access the flac files on the server with. I have a turtle beach USB audtio adaptor in it that sounds significanly better than the on-board. You need at least a 450Mhz machine to drive the soundcard, handle the wifi encryption and decode the flacs in winamp. You really don't need much local storage, just enough for the operating system.

This is plugged into the aux inputs on a Sherwood 5000 driving Polk Monitor 5's and doesn't sound too shabby at all.

I looked at the ROKU but the reviews were so bad I decided to save up for a Squeezebox.

I looked at the ROKU but the reviews were so bad I decided to save up for a Squeezebox.I think the Squeezebox is the best way to go unless you want to hook up to a TV/display.

The problem with a laptop is that you have to be near the laptop and the laptop needs to be near the stereo to make it useful. Well, you could have a long RCA cord from your soundcard, but that would be messy.

I have used the Xitel USB with my PC and it is a nice product for the price. It comes with a 30 foot cord, so you could use it with a laptop, but not sure you would want to.

I have also run a mini to coax from a Soundblaster card, but if you are in another room, you will also want to run a long VGA to a monitor. In my situation, I also ran a USB cord for a wireless (USB) keyboard (Media Pilot) and set my computer for "dual displays". You would need a DAC with this setup to get the digital to analog before sending it to a vintage receiver.

Another option is one of the wireless network DVD players. You hook it up to a TV and run the analog or digital outs to a receiver. I also like this setup because you can also see video and photos stored on your computer.

Anyway, for the best sound and ease, I think a Squeezebox is the way to go. From what I have read, it does not resample the music to 48khz like some of its competition. I have a Squeezebox on my wishlist.

I don't understand the bad reviews of the Roku:no:. I bought one shortly after hearing Henry's (hpsenicka) at the Fest. Bought a refurbished unit directly from Roku and am much more than satisfied with its performance:thmbsp:. In fact, the Roku is garnering more and more time as the prime source for my audio system, whether it be internet radio ( Radio Paradise is great :banana:) or streaming files from my PC. I run mine through an Entech DAC and find that on FLAC files it's very hard to tell them from CD's. The analog outputs do, however, leave a lot to be desired. Paired with a DAC, the Roku can't be beat for the $ invested.:scratch2:

M-Audio make some high end cards. But they make a reasonably affordable audio card called the 2496. I have one and it's very quiet, lots of options for output including RCA jacks for both in and out (so you can use the PC as a digital tape deck) and 5-pin DIN connctors. These usually go to a mixer or synthisizer or whatever, but can be used to link to some stereo receivers. Look on the back of yours to see if it has DIN I/O's?

Anyway - lots of options here. Best to do some research on the web before deciding? :music:

I don't understand the bad reviews of the Roku:no:. I bought one shortly after hearing Henry's (hpsenica) at the Fest. Bought a refurbished unit directly from Roku and am much more than satisfied with its performance:thmbsp:. In fact, the Roku is garnering more and more time as the prime source for my audio system, whether it be internet radio ( Radio Paradise is great :banana:) or streaming files from my PC. I run mine through an Entech DAC and find that on FLAC files it's very hard to tell them from CD's. The analog outputs do, however, leave a lot to be desired. Paired with a DAC, the Roku can't be beat for the $ invested.:scratch2:
The reviews I have read of the Roku have said that it upsamples everything to 48khz. Most people like an option of 44.1 for sending out a bit perfect signal. I have not done any research to see if there is a way around this issue, but that is the main complaint that people seem to have.

The problem with a laptop is that you have to be near the laptop and the laptop needs to be near the stereo to make it useful. Well, you could have a long RCA cord from your soundcard, but that would be messy.

That is why my laptop is in the same rack as the rest of my gear. I treat it as another source the way I would a tuner, CD player, etc. I did not want to rely on my main computer system for music as our bill paying, and business work is done on it.

Having a low-end laptop for dedicated streaming was an easy & convenient choice. With so many here having redundant audio gear collections I am surprised they restrict themselves to a single computer?

The reviews I have read of the Roku have said that it upsamples everything to 48khz. Most people like an option of 44.1 for sending out a bit perfect signal. I have not done any research to see if there is a way around this issue, but that is the main complaint that people seem to have.

The 48khz. upsampling issue affects the newer model M1001 Roku Soundbridge only.

The original models (M500, M1000, and M2000) do not suffer from this limitation, and use a 44.1 khz sample rate. If you purchase a M500-B or M1000-B directly from Roku, you will not encounter this problem.

Another issue to consider is that the Roku can play protected content from a streaming server (such as iTunes) ... the Squeezebox can't.

The Roku Soundbridge also has greater compatibility with third-party streaming servers, where historically the Squeezebox has only supported the proprietary SlimServer software.

The 48khz. upsampling issue affects the newer model M1001 Roku Soundbridge only.

The original models (M500, M1000, and M2000) do not suffer from this limitation, and use a 44.1 khz sample rate. If you purchase a M500-B or M1000-B directly from Roku, you will not encounter this problem.

Another issue to consider is that the Roku can play protected content from a streaming server (such as iTunes) ... the Squeezebox can't.

The Roku Soundbridge also has greater compatibility with third-party streaming servers, where historically the Squeezebox has only supported the proprietary SlimServer software.Interesting... I saw that they had a 500B for less than $100 on their site. I have heard it does not do wireless G, but I think I can get around that issue.

Is there any advantage to the M1001 over the M500? The 48khz is a deal killer for me and I also like the price on the Roku M500 right now. I just want to know what I am missing by going with an M500 instead of the M1001.

Interesting... I saw that they had a 500B for less than $100 on their site. I have heard it does not do wireless G, but I think I can get around that issue.

Is there any advantage to the M1001 over the M500? The 48khz is a deal killer for me and I also like the price on the Roku M500 right now. I just want to know what I am missing by going with an M500 instead of the M1001.

The M500 uses a different style display than all of the other models.

The M1001 is the only model that supports WPA wireless security, the older models are limited to WEP only. This is the only real advantage of the M1001 that I can think of, and it is not relevant in my situation.

All of them are 802.11b only if I remember correctly. I actually prefer to use the wired ethernet port as it guarantees no signal dropouts, even with large uncompressed lossless content.

Some folks who insist on 802.11g and/or WPA support have mated the Roku with an 802.11g wireless bridge to overcome this limitation.

For $79, the M500 is hard to beat! Mine has been in service almost 7/24 for the last year and a half!

The M500 uses a different style display than all of the other models.

The M1001 is the only model that supports WAP wireless security, the older models are limited to WEP only. This is the only real advantage of the M1001 that I can think of, and it is not relevant in my situation.

All of them are 802.11b only if I remember correctly. I actually prefer to use the wired ethernet port as it guarantees no signal dropouts, even with large uncompressed lossless content.

Some folks who insist on 802.11g and/or WAP support have mated the Roku with an 802.11g wireless bridge to overcome this limitation.

For $79, the M500 is hard to beat! Mine has been in service almost 7/24 for the last year and a half!
Thanks for the info. :thmbsp: I think I am going to order one in the next few days. Seems like a great price and I may end up buying another one if I like it.

Added later: I think I like the display on the M1000 better and it only costs another $20. I think I am going that route instead.

That is why my laptop is in the same rack as the rest of my gear. I treat it as another source the way I would a tuner, CD player, etc. I did not want to rely on my main computer system for music as our bill paying, and business work is done on it.

Having a low-end laptop for dedicated streaming was an easy & convenient choice. With so many here having redundant audio gear collections I am surprised they restrict themselves to a single computer?Personally, I like my laptop with headphones (and Echo Indigo card) and a dedicated PC or streaming device to match with a receiver.

Just an opinion, please don't pounce.

I think that any quality issues lie in the implementation of streaming radio and not in the sound card or cabling, standard on board sound and cheap cables should be fine for this.

I started with an M-Audio Transit usb and moved to an EMU-0404 usb and both are excellent but I only use them to play WAV files from my hard drive, I just don't like the sound of streaming radio, even the high bit rate ones.

- Dave

I cut and pasted everybody's information and will try out a few of the suggestions. Surfing around I came across what looks like a pretty good two-channel sound card, the M-Audio Audiophile 2496. There's a pretty fair description at www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP2496. Amazon reviews say it is obsolete for transferring music files, but the audio reviews are pretty good. Also, it works with Win 95, 98, 2000 and NT, a good old fashioned card.

Has anybody had experience with it?

Oh, yeah, and I agree with Dave about streaming as a second class way to use good audio equipment. But when it's a matter of second class or zero, such as you're in the boondocks with police and fire calls for e-fun, you'll clutch at straws with a pickle fork.

Right on, Dave.

Oh, yeah, and I agree with Dave about streaming as a second class way to use good audio equipment. But when it's a matter of second class or zero, such as you're in the boondocks with police and fire calls for e-fun, you'll clutch at straws with a pickle fork.

Right on, Dave.
With all digital, their is a payoff for using lossy compression. The issue is not streaming because it can support lossless audio without a problem. In other words, streaming wav files over wifi is the same as playing them back at your computer.

On my main computer, I personally use an M-Audio transit (USB) and run that to a Beresford TC-7510 DAC. The sound quality is great when using lossless compression. However, I still think it sounds better than my onboard soundcard when using lossy compression, so there is still a benefit to having a decent card/DAC combo (IMO).

One thing you will sacrifice with an M-Audio product is driver support. Worst in the business. Every M-Audio product I have had has had quirks and problems with the drivers and M-Audio never updates them.

They are just rolling out beta Vista drivers right now, 6 months after release.

That's not to say the hardware isn't great, because it is. For basic use the drivers should adequate. But buyer beware of very poor driver support.

I will never buy another M-Audio product.

I am quite happy with my Emu 0404 card. Very nice.


dew.

One thing you will sacrifice with an M-Audio product is driver support. Worst in the business. Every M-Audio product I have had has had quirks and problems with the drivers and M-Audio never updates them.

They are just rolling out beta Vista drivers right now, 6 months after release.

That's not to say the hardware isn't great, because it is. For basic use the drivers should adequate. But buyer beware of very poor driver support.

I will never buy another M-Audio product.

I am quite happy with my Emu 0404 card. Very nice.


dew.I know, I had to switch to a Vista machine and the M-Audio transit sat in a drawer for a few months. The new driver works fine with Vista 32-bit, so I am happy.

The Emu 0404 USB was many months behind schedule just getting released. Even their push back date got pushed back. That made me wonder about future updates. I was very much in the market for the emu, but I can only wait so long before I give up. It is a nice product and has its own DAC, so it appears to be a great all in one solution.

I'd have to agree with Derek (no pouncing intended :) ) -- onboard sound doesn't really cut it, even with the lower sound quality of streaming audio and lower bitrate MP3s. A nice little soundcard will give you plenty of flexibility, and that's good to have -- I'll bet your intended usage will change a bit when you get it set up. Mine sure did; it's really handy to have thousands of songs at your fingertips sometimes, with no storage/space issues. Just another option that's nice to have.

All of that is great. AK forums are just the best fun you can have with your clothes on!

Thanks for the info. :thmbsp: I think I am going to order one in the next few days. Seems like a great price and I may end up buying another one if I like it.

Added later: I think I like the display on the M1000 better and it only costs another $20. I think I am going that route instead.Got my M1000 the other day!:banana: I love this little Roku unit.

The Roku wants a PC running to access your files (there is a way to install a client like Slimserver on a NAS, but it is easiest to run from a PC). For me, that is no problem because I have a dedicated PC that is always on. The things I have tested so far:

Slimserver - this is cool because it will allow you to control the Roku via a web interface. This means that I can lay on the couch and control it with my Sony PSP...sweet!

Tversity - This is a program I already use for another media player. It works fine with Roku.

Rhapsody - Roku will allow you to access your media library (including your file and Rhapsody albums) and the Rhapsody radio channels that you setup or the Rhapsody default channels. It works great with Rhapsody, but for some reason, it will not stream my WMA Lossless files using Rhapsody. It can see them, but it can't play them..

Anyway, I am pretty happy with it, especially for the price. I have tested the coax output and optical outputs with my Beresford external DAC and it sounds great. I have not had any problems with it playing lossless files over the wireless connection, either. This means I can use it anywhere in the house and that gives me a lot of flexibility. I may actually buy a couple more..:D

One other thing is that because of its wireless abilities, it would make a great pairing with a portable headphone amp for music anywhere in the house.

I'm very pleased that you are enjoying your Roku... I can't imagine my system without one!

I have always been puzzled why folks seem to discount the Roku in favor of the SlimDevices Squeezebox units. The Roku offers a lot of bang for the buck, and there are a growing number of AKers enjoying them on a regular basis. Welcome to the club!

You should also experiment with the FireFly media server, which is available for download from the Roku website. It is an excellent media server in it's own right and emulates the behaviour of iTunes.

Lastly, Roku is about to release v3 (currently in Beta) of their SoundBridge firmware, which will provide a number of new features.

I'm very pleased that you are enjoying your Roku... I can't imagine my system without one!

I have always been puzzled why folks seem to discount the Roku in favor of the SlimDevices Squeezebox units. The Roku offers a lot of bang for the buck, and there are a growing number of AKers enjoying them on a regular basis. Welcome to the club!

You should also experiment with the FireFly media server, which is available for download from the Roku website. It is an excellent media server in it's own right and emulates the behaviour of iTunes.

Lastly, Roku is about to release v3 (currently in Beta) of their SoundBridge firmware, which will provide a number of new features.Yes you did "tell me so"! Many Thanks!:rockon:

I already had the other programs on my computer, so it was easy to test them. I have a harddrive with all of my music in FLAC that I plan on plugging into the computer server. Then I will give the Firefly program a shot. :thmbsp:

xoaphexox

"DFX Audio enhancer". I tried it. 20 minutes later I bought it. I was very impressed.

Thanks

t2188na:

Awesome! I dont think you will be disappointed. They seem to come out with new versions pretty often, too.

Rock on!

xoaphexox:
I just had to write once again.

The DFX Enhancer has provided me hours of pleasure.

Waiting in line to get my 2270 redone.

Rocker/60's/70's/80's? Try: http://home.stny.rr.com/cadillac/radio.html
Just found it.

Thanks again,
NJA