Yahoo news had a headline news article on why some Cd's sound so bad these days. The subject of using too much compression in producing a CD is a frequent topic around here but nice to see the subject get more exposure to the masses.

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/33549

Lefty

But consumers often subconsciously equate loudness with quality, and thus, record producers pump up the volume. Anything to make a buck.

Uneducated consumers...

Even when I was a young tike and a friend would be blasting music with the bass and volume cranked resulting in horrible distortion I knew that just weren't right.

I guess it is a question of musical style - mostly. I disagree with the thought that compression is at fault: 320 compressed music can sound excellent - and agree totally with the lodness part.

If you recall, a few years back, a fad popped up, called "lo-fi", attempting to keep things "simple and back to basics". The result was terrible: bands like Blur (undoubtedly, sucsessful) put out a CD containing some excellent music (and some not so good), that sound wise is terrible (and one can only hope they'll wise up one day, and remix the whole album).

Heavy Metal bands - unlike in the past, exagerate drums and based,just to cover the lack of any music. Just for comparacent, you should listen to AC/DC's "Back in black", which is not a pinnacle of audio, but still sounds miles ahead of anything produced today, and although heavy metal isn't my cup of tea, it is one of my favourite albums of all times.

On the other hand, some Rap CD's are a good surprise: I guess that the fact that Rap is basically very minimal, more attention is put into each and every sound.

I would add another factor in: The mass market does not listen to music like we, AudioKarmans do. Us, we could listen to whole albums as they were when they were vinyl, and 40 minutes long, with a theme. The current average CD consumer listens to 3 minute songs, and jumps to the next song even before the 3 minutes are up. Short attention span and remote controls are to blame.

You guys must have read the same article at about the same time:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117895

Believe it or not, the Yahoo article and the embedded link in it to Funl demonstrating compression are the first two explanations I've ever seen that actually showed me what's going on, and now I understand it.
Tom

Oh, I thought this was the same thread as the other :D

Vinyl is uncompressed and always sounds great in analog!
wizargoz

Unless the engineer runs compression and pegs the meters during the mastering process - then all the vinyl in the world won't help.

Vinyl is uncompressed
wizargoz

Actually that's not correct. The RIAA has utilized a standard equalization scheme for all phono inputs which in effect limits or (compresses if you will) an analog signal to be limited to a certain bandwidth which is considerably less than real life sound.

Just an FYI

Following the links led me to a video or two on YouTube called the Loudness War. It's been tossed around plenty, and this is pretty much done by Sir Paul, but quite cool even to those of us well versed in the subject.

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=loudness+war

I guess it is a question of musical style - mostly. I disagree with the thought that compression is at fault: 320 compressed music can sound excellent - and agree totally with the lodness part.

If you recall, a few years back, a fad popped up, called "lo-fi", attempting to keep things "simple and back to basics". The result was terrible: bands like Blur (undoubtedly, sucsessful) put out a CD containing some excellent music (and some not so good), that sound wise is terrible (and one can only hope they'll wise up one day, and remix the whole album).

Heavy Metal bands - unlike in the past, exagerate drums and based,just to cover the lack of any music. Just for comparacent, you should listen to AC/DC's "Back in black", which is not a pinnacle of audio, but still sounds miles ahead of anything produced today, and although heavy metal isn't my cup of tea, it is one of my favourite albums of all times.

On the other hand, some Rap CD's are a good surprise: I guess that the fact that Rap is basically very minimal, more attention is put into each and every sound.

I would add another factor in: The mass market does not listen to music like we, AudioKarmans do. Us, we could listen to whole albums as they were when they were vinyl, and 40 minutes long, with a theme. The current average CD consumer listens to 3 minute songs, and jumps to the next song even before the 3 minutes are up. Short attention span and remote controls are to blame.

When DSOTM came out, I would listen to side 1, slip into semi-nirvana only to be pulled back to reality for a few minutes to turn the licorice pizza, clean said pizza, clean the stylus, have the nagging feeling that the VTA was off a bit, set the needle back on side 2, and try and get outta my head to continue on back to semi-nirvana.

DSOTM was the first cd I bought. :music:

To get straight to the point (you're welcome:thmbsp:)

Some cd's sound like crap because, believe it or not, some recording engineers who are using digital tape recorders, don't know how to use them correctly.

A cd has a dynamic range of more than 90db, with 96db the theoretical limit for Red Book. (bt comparison, vinyl is limited to, what, maybe 50db at best?)

This is the real culprit, I think.

Some rap cd's sound great. Hate the music, but they sound great.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cd+dynamic+range

legaleagle, you are talking playback compression. It is the recording compression that is becoming such a problem. The recording engineers are forcing the audio into a narrow band of modulation which give music a certain lack of natural dynamics. Think anything recorded by Disney, the kings of compression.

My son came in here with his Shadows Fall CD's wanting to hear how they sounded on a better system.Even with the tone controlls strait up my JBL's really got a workout. I don't think I've ever heard so many drum poundings so fast in all my life.

Outshined: when I first heard DSOTM, it was understood that at the end of Great Gig in the Sky you awaken from your stupor, refresh the tobacco water pipe, pop some popcorn, then get resettled for Money. Both sides are flowing suites and never have sounded right glued together in the middle to me. Not that it is BAD in any way, of course, just something i never quite got used to.

Speaking of DSOTM and vinyl quality: the verses on Us and Them sound pretty bad on the standard issue EMI CD. When you listen to the record it seems Alan and/or the Floyd were saturating the tape as an effect, and it sounds good. The only digital version I've heard that sounds good during the verses is a rip of the quad LP! I've only had the EMI disk though. I'd be curious to hear other CD editions to compare.

Outshined: when I first heard DSOTM, it was understood that at the end of Great Gig in the Sky you awaken from your stupor, refresh the tobacco water pipe, pop some popcorn, then get resettled for Money. Both sides are flowing suites and never have sounded right glued together in the middle to me. Not that it is BAD in any way, of course, just something i never quite got used to.

Speaking of DSOTM and vinyl quality: the verses on Us and Them sound pretty bad on the standard issue EMI CD. When you listen to the record it seems Alan and/or the Floyd were saturating the tape as an effect, and it sounds good. The only digital version I've heard that sounds good during the verses is a rip of the quad LP! I've only had the EMI disk though. I'd be curious to hear other CD editions to compare.

Just curious... Have you given the SACD a try (even in a 2-channel setup)?

-Dave

Outshined: when I first heard DSOTM, it was understood that at the end of Great Gig in the Sky you awaken from your stupor, refresh the tobacco water pipe, pop some popcorn, then get resettled for Money. Both sides are flowing suites and never have sounded right glued together in the middle to me. Not that it is BAD in any way, of course, just something i never quite got used to.

Speaking of DSOTM and vinyl quality: the verses on Us and Them sound pretty bad on the standard issue EMI CD. When you listen to the record it seems Alan and/or the Floyd were saturating the tape as an effect, and it sounds good. The only digital version I've heard that sounds good during the verses is a rip of the quad LP! I've only had the EMI disk though. I'd be curious to hear other CD editions to compare.

Have you seen the DVD "DSOTM" The Making Of? It's a mind blower! Tells how the recording was made, shows photos of some of the people who spoke on the record, tells the story of how Tori came to sing "...Gig in the Sky", interviews (With Roger) and the band, and so on... A definite must for all fans of what I consider to be one of the greatest pieces of music ever conceived.

OK. My cd is from 1984. It was made from David Gilmoures' personal copy of the original master tape, and pressed in Japan for Harvest. I have the MoFi copy as well. I prefer the Japanese copy. It sounds HUGE on my Carver Sonic Holography 2 channel rig. Great fun:banana:

I can appreciate your feelings of interpretation with respect to the way you should listen; one "side" at a time. I prefer listening the whole way through (Like "Wish You Were Here")

Have you noticed that every subsequent album by the Floyd has eerie little remnants of Dark Side on them?:yes: Could be a single note, a chord, a piano phrase, or maybe a drum sequence... I can hear them, and others have expressed the same feeling. Purposeful, methinks. Anyone else?:music:

My step brother, a professional drummer, upon hearing "Speak to Me" on my rig, commented about how "real" the opening drums sounded.

That's when I really knew this recording was done right.

Speaking of DSOTM and vinyl quality: the verses on Us and Them sound pretty bad on the standard issue EMI CD. When you listen to the record it seems Alan and/or the Floyd were saturating the tape as an effect, and it sounds good. The only digital version I've heard that sounds good during the verses is a rip of the quad LP! I've only had the EMI disk though. I'd be curious to hear other CD editions to compare.
Smooth as butter on the MFSL CD. Then again, I've been listening to this disc since I was eight years old, so that's pretty much how I think it's 'supposed' to sound, and anything else is just strange.