Quantum 3s + ?amp

[rstsgsas]

I have my new (old) Quantum 3s up and running with 1 of my Yamaha ca-2010(120 watts RMS)I knew Q3s were power hungry and i plan on biamping with my 2(ca2010s).The one amp sounds excellent at lower vol.It clips at about 2/3 of the way up.It is loud but not overpowering .I know that it is not doing speakers the service they deserve.What is your thoughts on biamping with the 2(ca2010)s and what are other amplifier alternatives in the 250 watts RMS range that i don"t have to mortgage the house for?I am partial to Yamaha as you know,but sonic bliss is what I want.Anyone want to donate a 250 watts rms amp lol.Thanks guys.

[BeatleFred]

The Quantum 3's are awesome speakers, did you acquire them recently? I have a pair of Q3's as well but I am not able to set them up since I have my Infinity Renaissance 90's and there isnt room for both pairs in my basement, so I am still trying to figure out a solution to that.

How was the condition of the Q3's when you acquired them, did any of the drivers need repair work?

I imagine there are quite a few contenders for an appropriate amp for the Quantum 3's, my vote would go for the Sansui you see in my avatar (and there is one on Ebay now :) but I guess you have to decide what your price budget is.

B/F (ps: do you have any pics you can show of your Q3's?)

[rstsgsas]

I don't have pics yet.I have been gathering pieces for a year.I told story in a previous post.The cabs are in ok shape.Need a little tlc.They were full of replaced drivers.Someone cut a hole for a tweeter in each but for the $60 i gave i am happy.All the drivers i have are in excellent condition.I don,t have original tweeters although i do have 2 sets of emits,just different versions.Quantums on a budget...........What do you think of the biamping with my Yamaha ca-2010s?Somewhere around $250 would be my budget if I bought something else.Do you have any recommendations.I will try to post pics in the near future.

[rstsgsas]

I don't have pics yet.I have been gathering pieces for a year.I told story in a previous post.The cabs are in ok shape.Need a little tlc.They were full of replaced drivers.Someone cut a hole for a tweeter in each but for the $60 i gave i am happy.All the drivers i have are in excellent condition.I don,t have original tweeters although i do have 2 sets of emits,just different versions.Quantums on a budget...........What do you think of the biamping with my Yamaha ca-2010s?Somewhere around $250 would be my budget if I bought something else.Do you have any recommendations.I will try to post pics in the near future.

[BeatleFred]

In case you werent aware of it, Bill Watkins (THE man that the woofer is named after) has a shop in your home state- perhaps he might be able to restore your Q3's. I think you'd obtain better sound quality by having those speakers brought to their full potential instead of trying to get it from the amplifier though you certainly could try biamping with two Yamaha's and see (hear) what the results are.

B/F

[rstsgsas]

I have the original woofers ,mids,midbase,not original emits,but i do have emits 2each speaker just not originals,there from kappas i believe.I am not trying to get non original speakers to sound good.I replaced hodgepodge drivers that were in them,plugged tweeter hole made by someone else.What i was refering to on biamping is power requirements.The q3s require more power than my 120 watts rms my Yamaha can give them.My guess is they would sound even better with two amps or 1 higher power amp to drive them with. or is ther something i am missing.I have original crossovers too.

[rstsgsas]

Quick pic of cabs with replacement drivers i removed

[ajmicek]

Well rsts, I can give you a quote from AudioReview about the dual voice coil watkins in the Ren 90's ...

"need lots and lots of power. Bi-amp them if you can. If you can't, get a beefy power amp. Don't even think about using a receiver. And tube amps are definitely out. The Watkins woofer, in particular, presents an INCREDIBLY difficult load to an amplifier."

But why such a difficult load?
Well, I found a short explanation of why there are two drivers (as I'm sure you already know) ... its from http://www.otlamp.com/articles/ma-1/sekela/

"Dynamic speakers include mechanical damping in their construction [5-7]. The woofers are the only elements of dynamic speakers driven near their mechanical resonance frequency [8, see also appendix]. Mechanical resonance is a consequence of mass (reaction force proportional to driver acceleration) and restoring force (proportional to driver displacement). 'Damping' is the word for a force proportional to driver velocity. It decreases efficiency, but, if chosen properly, reduces the response peak at resonance. Unfortunately, it is not possible to overcome the impedance peak at resonance unless a second voice coil with less coupling to the magnetic field is used, as in the Watkins woofer design (Infinity QLS series literature) ."

But that still doesn't answer the original question.
Well, I kept searching and found this:
"the R90s can present a reactive impedance of less than 1 Ohm at frequencies of 100 Hz and below."

That, however, shouldn't be too surprising. Well, I've been searching for the why these things are so tough to power for the last hour and have come up with nadda. I was quite curious. Oh well - hope the info helps a little.

[BeatleFred]

Ugh.... those Q3's just arent real Q3's with those other replacement drivers shown in the photo- why must people destroy great speakers like these?. The tweeters that belong in there should be the EMIT's and if you look around Online, sooner or later you'll find them:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1075559148


As far as the Ren 90's go, since I own them, I think I'm qualified to say that they dont have a low impedance problem. Perhaps you are confusing them with the older Kappa 9's which do have a nasty impedance curve that can present a problem for many amplifiers- not the case with the Ren 90's despite what anyone mightve said on AR. The Ren 90 brochure mentions a little bit about the dual voice coil woofer design and more detail about it is available in the Technical Manual that came with this speaker model (how the secondary voice coil reduces resonance allowing an amplifier to deliver more current)

According to a 1992 German hi fi magazine review of the Ren 90's which I have, the impedance of the Ren 90's dips to a low of only 3.3 ohms- which is not considered to be a real low impedance as 2 ohms and less would be. I have used 60W receivers such as my Sansui G-5500 and 7070 and they can handle the Ren 90's just fine. The older Quantum models are probably a bit less effiecient than the Ren 90's and the larger and older-style 12" woofers in them probably could benefit from having a beefier amplifier connected to them.

B/F

[ajmicek]

From what I gathered, the picture posted is of the speakers before. rsts has replaced what is pictured with what should be in there.
Also from what I could tell he has EMIT's in there already? Perhaps I am mistaken.
Interesting that they only dip to 3.3, though.

[BeatleFred]

Apparently he has all the original parts except for the tweeters which come from the later Kappa model and arent like the ones from the Quantum line. I think its best to use all the original drivers on the Quantum's. Whoever butchered the speakers in the first place should be :whip:

As for the biamping issue, I say go ahead and try them with two amps and see if there is any improvement.

B/F

[ajmicek]

I agree they *were* things of beauty. However, an attempt to bring them closer to their original state is admirable and is lightyears better than the hodgepodge of drivers in there before. Good luck, gsts!

[BeatleFred]

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/33931.html

[rstsgsas]

I do have all original drivers except emits.I know there are a few line source emits for sell out there and i intend to get them along the way.Thanks beetlefred for the link to audiogon although i have already talked to the guy who is selling the parts,I cannot afford to spend $240,+ shipping right now on 4 emits.Cabinets need a little work and level pots in crossover are very dirty.Also i have to work out my amplifier issues,but it is a fun endeaver anyway,isn't that and what sounds good to me what its all about,not necessarily having perfect pristine excamples of vintage stuff.Don't get me wrong i want to have some nice quantums in original condition ,its a balance between 2 kids ,wife ,house ,job and the love of stereo.Like i said i have been a year searching for drivers at steals on prices and have probably spent less than $350,on what i have.These sound excellent at lower vol,with what drivers i have put in them,yes even with the later version emits,amplifier power is made known by having to turn my vol on the ca2010 up at least half way up to be at a vol thst can be heard thru the house.It is not over powering even in the same room.At 3/4 it begins to clip .My wsc1a speakers that are the original prototype speaker that Bill Watkins made would be so loud windows might break at that level.They have the dual voice coil woofers too.They are like Qjr :cool:

[rstsgsas]

sorry about the long post.I was looking for opinions on what amps might be a good fit for using with these if my biamping is not a good thing.I am not in the postion to spend alot of money.I do have some things to sell later on and will continue to look for emits.I have never even seen a real Ren90 let alone heard one.Heard some kappa 7s once,The man I got the cabs from had searched for several years for drivers and was unsucessful ,I believe i can repair the front holes and chips in cabs and someday get the original emits .Till then I have what i have and a little work to do.Thats the fun of it. Farming is easy if your plow is a pencil and you are a thousand miles from the fields.(Dewight D. Eisenhower)

[bully]

I will unhesitatingly recommend Soundcraftsmen amps!
The 'smaller' 205-wpc PCR800 (or any of its 'newer' iterations) would work great, and they are capable of powering nasty loads without missing a beat.

[rstsgsas]

Would 200wpc work ,i believe you suggested 250 in a previous post,How about yamaha M70,M80s,I have seen some adcoms and sae's go for less than 250 on ebay in that range.What do you think.

[bully]

I have 6 Soundcraftsmen amps here, including a pair of the PCR800 (I like to run them as monoblocks at 600 watts into 8 ohms, 900 into 4 ohms, or 775 into 2 ohms!).
I also have the Yamaha M-70 and M-80 amps, both were TOTL when they were current. The M-70 is a very good 200 wpc amp, the M-80 a monster with 250 wpc.
The Soundcraftsmen, for no good reason, really, are usually an excellent value (say on eBay) for what are excellent amps.
SAE amps are also very good, but might tend to run more than Soundcraftsmen (on a per watt value).
I would also say the Kenwood Basic M2 and M2a represent huge values, though they have been rising in value over the past year or two (of course, after I sold my M2a). The M2 & M2a both run at a healthy 220 wpc.
I can also say the Denon POA-2200 is a very fine 200 wpc amp, and have heard good words about the 'newer' POA-2400, too.