Apologies in advance for a long, complex post:

I have a collection of several thousand CDs that I ripped to a lossy format on my Macintosh (computer) several years ago (first in MP3, then AAC). This format, while obviously not pristine, sufficed for playback on my iPods, computers, and a multi-room Sonos system I installed a few years back used mostly for entertaining/"light" listening.

Now, with harddrive space a plenty, I am looking to re-rip my music in a lossless format for better enjoyment through my stereo. I seem to have two choices, and would appreciate some advice on which is better:

1) Re-rip via my Mac (computer) using Apple Lossless or AIFF, thereby replacing my current music collection disc for disc. I believe it would then be possible to connect my iTunes library to an MDA1000 via an Airport Express (wireless router with digital out)... I would then control playback of my music collection via iTunes on my laptop, though it would play over the stereo with the added benefit of the MDA1000's decoding.

Pros: allows for a single, centralized library of music which is still usable on my computers, Sonos system, and iPods/iPhone. Music can easily be backed up to external drives using in-place backup functionality of MacOS.
Cons: bulky file format not ideal for my iPhone considering it only has 8GB of storage, and is likely overkill given the crappy earbuds. Controlling music selection/playback from my laptop seems a little disconnected from the audio listening process.

2) Re-rip via McIntosh MCD750 using FLAC compression, forgoing the MDA1000 from my setup. Keep existing lossy library on my Mac computer, for use with iPod/iPhone, Sonos, etc.

Pros: More efficient for iPod/iPhone, I presume there is some advantage to the FLAC format and/or McIntosh importing/storage? Storing music in MCD750 makes it more readily available (don't have to deal with laptop for playback) though I am unsure of the MCD750's ease of use/navigation when thousands of CDs are loaded.
Cons: Adds an extra step for each CD I buy (rip it on Mac, rip it on Mc), I can foresee a day when I might need more storage space than the MCD750's 750GB. Have also heard good things about the MDA1000 and suspect it would be a more valuable addition to the system than an MCD750? Unfortunately I don't think I have the space of the budget for both, so it is pretty much an either/or scenario...

Not sure if there are other options, but would appreciate hearing them if so.

Many thanks!

I ripped my CDs into Apple lossless which is MUCH smaller than AIFF and play it back via a tubed DAC. I didn't go wireless as my experience in the past with most wireless items is the signal will occasionally drop. I haven't tried in several years so maybe it would work great.
If you want to keep your lossy forms for the ipod, maybe you should just have a different library for that which you access only when refilling you iphone/ipod.

If you go to all the trouble to rip your music (whatever format), be sure to back it up.....hard drives are pretty cheap and you can put a lot of time into ripping.

If I was doing it all today, I would buy a Mac Mini and a small monitor for use in the hifi stack. I'd then feed the digital output from the Mac into your Mc D/A and use the excelletn Macintosh UI to select and play my Apple Lossless media as well as any streaming Internet source (iRadio for instance)

The Mc music server is also an option, but I agree that the UI might not be quite as easy to navigate with 1000s of CDs worth of data...

If I was doing it all today, I would buy a Mac Mini and a small monitor for use in the hifi stack. I'd then feed the digital output from the Mac into your Mc D/A and use the excelletn Macintosh UI to select and play my Apple Lossless media as well as any streaming Internet source (iRadio for instance)

The Mc music server is also an option, but I agree that the UI might not be quite as easy to navigate with 1000s of CDs worth of data...

Unfortunately the Mac Mini maxes out at 160GB, and since it uses a 2" drive rather than a 3" drive, its storage capability will always be severely constrained. I have over 100GB of music now, all of which is heavily compressed... 160GB would not be nearly enough to store my collection losslessly...

OK --- you buy a massive network attached storage box. You buy a squeezebox and you re rip to FLAC. You buy a MCD1000 and go from the squeezebox coax to the MCD1000. In the VISTA XP world there is a program which can decode FLAC to all the other formats so there is no need to re rip newly ripped FLAC stuff. I use EASY CD Decoder.

At a later date if you want to move to a MS750 this should be relatively easy... By the way, I am assuming you have a network if you don't all you need is a router.

In terms of sound, the Squeezebox doesnt sound as good as my LINN Karik NumeriK or CD12 even when using the MX119's DA converter. But a few on the forum have stated that the MDA1000 is significantly better than any CD player in the world so one would think the squeezebox through a MDA1000 would be significantly better than a CD12 which is certainly more than passable to my ears.

I have a SB3 with Apple Lossless files on an IBM Thinkpad (with a 250GB WD External HDD attached with velcro to the back of the screen --- looks ok sice WD is black and sleek looking) feeding a Musical Fidelity DAC.

Tried FLAC but went back to Apple cause ITunes is SO MUCH more convenient to use and you can even do playlists in it and have them appear magically on the SB3

When I move house beginning of next year, I will buy a Slim Transporter.

All in all, I like my current setup

ntang and guys if you dont mind I am curious about something. Have you listened to a live broadcast of classical music through the SB3? If so, do you have an explanation on why it sounds so damn good?

Are you referring to radio on the SB3? If so, not really. I only use it for ripped CD's.

Maybe cause they add echo/reverb to it...dunno!


ntang and guys if you dont mind I am curious about something. Have you listened to a live broadcast of classical music through the SB3? If so, do you have an explanation on why it sounds so damn good?

Apologies in advance for a long, complex post:

I have a collection of several thousand CDs that I ripped to a lossy format on my Macintosh (computer) several years ago (first in MP3, then AAC). This format, while obviously not pristine, sufficed for playback on my iPods, computers, and a multi-room Sonos system I installed a few years back used mostly for entertaining/"light" listening.

Now, with harddrive space a plenty, I am looking to re-rip my music in a lossless format for better enjoyment through my stereo. I seem to have two choices, and would appreciate some advice on which is better:

1) Re-rip via my Mac (computer) using Apple Lossless or AIFF, thereby replacing my current music collection disc for disc. I believe it would then be possible to connect my iTunes library to an MDA1000 via an Airport Express (wireless router with digital out)... I would then control playback of my music collection via iTunes on my laptop, though it would play over the stereo with the added benefit of the MDA1000's decoding.

Pros: allows for a single, centralized library of music which is still usable on my computers, Sonos system, and iPods/iPhone. Music can easily be backed up to external drives using in-place backup functionality of MacOS.
Cons: bulky file format not ideal for my iPhone considering it only has 8GB of storage, and is likely overkill given the crappy earbuds. Controlling music selection/playback from my laptop seems a little disconnected from the audio listening process.

2) Re-rip via McIntosh MCD750 using FLAC compression, forgoing the MDA1000 from my setup. Keep existing lossy library on my Mac computer, for use with iPod/iPhone, Sonos, etc.

Pros: More efficient for iPod/iPhone, I presume there is some advantage to the FLAC format and/or McIntosh importing/storage? Storing music in MCD750 makes it more readily available (don't have to deal with laptop for playback) though I am unsure of the MCD750's ease of use/navigation when thousands of CDs are loaded.
Cons: Adds an extra step for each CD I buy (rip it on Mac, rip it on Mc), I can foresee a day when I might need more storage space than the MCD750's 750GB. Have also heard good things about the MDA1000 and suspect it would be a more valuable addition to the system than an MCD750? Unfortunately I don't think I have the space of the budget for both, so it is pretty much an either/or scenario...

Not sure if there are other options, but would appreciate hearing them if so.

Many thanks!

Several comments:

My choice would be to go the iTunes => Apple Lossless => MDA1000 route. It sounds absolutely incredible. iTunes gives you more flexibility / expandability regarding hard disks, backup, control, integration with iPod, networking with other Macs or squeezebox, Sonos, etc. But iTunes is not just about what it does today. There is an exciting array of products and software being developed and released for iTunes, and it is morphing into a complete media server solution. We have not heard the last from Apple.

The MS750 is a beautiful piece of equipment and will sound fantastic. If it does everything that you need, you won't go wrong.

Regarding the iPhone, you can't fit that many songs on an iPhone even if they are compressed. I use Apple Lossless files, and have a lot of fun just mixing them up every time I synch the phone. There are lots of easy ways to do it; by genre, artist, party shuffle, or even using something like this: http://www.potionfactory.com/tangerine/

Apple Lossles and Flac are identical as far as the digital bits being fed to your system. I have converted back and forth and compared the digital files - they are identical. Currently, iTunes and the iPod do not play FLAC files.

From what I have read, the output from the Airport Express is supposedly not quite up to the digital out from the (Apple) Mac directly.

When you think about it, it is staggering that we have these choices to make. Think how far digital music has come in the last few years!

cornfeded If jdubbs goes all apple lossless I assume there is a way to go from Apple lossless to FLAC so he can then download the data to an MS750. Since the logical first start is an MDA1000 I'm not sure what the MS750 buys one in terms of sound quality.

cornfeded If jdubbs goes all apple lossless I assume there is a way to go from Apple lossless to FLAC so he can then download the data to an MS750. Since the logical first start is an MDA1000 I'm not sure what the MS750 buys one in terms of sound quality.

There are several utilities that run on the Mac that allow you to convert between any audio codecs you can think of.

There is also a plug-in for playing FLAC files in iTunes. I have not used it, and I shy away from relying on anything that Apple might break with an update to iTunes.

The plug in is here: http://www.xiph.org/quicktime/

I am beginning to think the Apple Lossless solution is my best bet. The Mac mini suggestion actually gave me another idea, which is to use an AppleTV as the bridge between my computer and the MDA1000, since it also has digital out... plus it features an attractive interface that is operable via the TV (i.e., no laptop needed). As for my iPhone/iPod, I suppose I can keep a small lossy library on a separate computer for it....

jdubbs,

I have another suggestion, one that I have just implemented over the past 2 weeks. I bought the new 24 inch iMac with 1 tb of disk space. Burned all of my cds through itunes in apple lossless. It comes with a WICKED interface preloaded and a palm sized wireless remote that facilitates navigation(i think its called front row) of your entire collection alphabetically, by song, by artist etc with album cover art FULL SCREEN!

You may then come out of the iMac digitally to your dac or via a usb convertor (depending on your dac of choice). I am SO jazzed to have full control of 1500 cds worth of music that I ended up selling my Wadia and the iMac is my sole source. Its absolutely silent, unless you are burning a cd, goes to sleep automatically when not in use and wakes up from the remote. This is the future folks! I have since bought another, a low priced dac (usb Benchmark) and some professional active monitors(PMC AML1). AMAZING and simple.

It attaches to the internet wirelessly for the cddb but be sure and back up your itunes library on external disk. I assure you, I do NOT want to reload those cds I just packed away. Peace and good luck.

I have many of these pieces and have experimented with many ripping schemes. The key to ripping sanity is my Sony VIAO VGX-XL2, a Windows Media Center computer with a 200 disc changer. It is ripping heaven. Just load 200 discs in, let it find them all and then let it rip over night. You can get through a fairly large collection in a few days of dedicated use. Once loaded, I rip to WMA Lossless and then again to MP3 320kbs for portables. I then convert all the ripped tracks to FLAC. Everything is backed up on multiple external drives. I copy the FLACs as needed to my MS300 (which is full) and the Sonos pulls the FLACs as well. The Sony will not rip to FLAC the Sonos doesn't see WMA Lossless, so I convert. Not a big deal, it just gives me another set of back-ups.

With this set-up you can use the Sony in your system as a fairly powerful media server. The Sony feeding WMA Lossless and the Sonos feeding FLAC's to an MDA1000 will be equal to or better than an MS750 by itself and can be run fully balanced. More importantantly the MS750 is limited to 750gb, the network is unlimited (I'm running over 3tb on a hodge podge of internal and external drives!) A good NAS is even better and perfect for the Sonos.

Even if you pass on the VIAO, I would do the MDA1000 and figure out how to get your collection into FLAC and through the Sonos to the MDA1000.

What other equipment do you have?

Sony just released a new XL3:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=27932

There are probably great deals on the XL2 which is quite decent.

jdubbs,

I have another suggestion, one that I have just implemented over the past 2 weeks. I bought the new 24 inch iMac with 1 tb of disk space. Burned all of my cds through itunes in apple lossless. It comes with a WICKED interface preloaded and a palm sized wireless remote that facilitates navigation(i think its called front row) of your entire collection alphabetically, by song, by artist etc with album cover art FULL SCREEN!

You may then come out of the iMac digitally to your dac or via a usb convertor (depending on your dac of choice). I am SO jazzed to have full control of 1500 cds worth of music that I ended up selling my Wadia and the iMac is my sole source. Its absolutely silent, unless you are burning a cd, goes to sleep automatically when not in use and wakes up from the remote. This is the future folks! I have since bought another, a low priced dac (usb Benchmark) and some professional active monitors(PMC AML1). AMAZING and simple.

It attaches to the internet wirelessly for the cddb but be sure and back up your itunes library on external disk. I assure you, I do NOT want to reload those cds I just packed away. Peace and good luck.

This is actually very similar to my current setup. I have a G5 Tower with 3 or 4 harddrive bays, which is ample room to store as much music as I'll ever rationally need. I have an AppleTV (which is really just a glorified wireless router with digital audio/video outs) which is connected via 802.11n to my G5 and via HDMI and fiber optic to my living room stereo. It uses the same Front Row interface as the iMac to select music, movies, tv shows, and YouTube (all of which are fed from the G5) via the TV. When/if I ever invest in an MDA1000, I will certainly connect it to that. Separate from that I have 7 Sonos boxes which power in-wall speakers throughout the house; these are wirelessly connected to the same iTunes library that the AppleTV uses (Sonos also supports Apple Lossless, so I'm covered in that department).

I have many of these pieces and have experimented with many ripping schemes. The key to ripping sanity is my Sony VIAO VGX-XL2, a Windows Media Center computer with a 200 disc changer. It is ripping heaven. Just load 200 discs in, let it find them all and then let it rip over night. You can get through a fairly large collection in a few days of dedicated use. Once loaded, I rip to WMA Lossless and then again to MP3 320kbs for portables. I then convert all the ripped tracks to FLAC. Everything is backed up on multiple external drives. I copy the FLACs as needed to my MS300 (which is full) and the Sonos pulls the FLACs as well. The Sony will not rip to FLAC the Sonos doesn't see WMA Lossless, so I convert. Not a big deal, it just gives me another set of back-ups.

With this set-up you can use the Sony in your system as a fairly powerful media server. The Sony feeding WMA Lossless and the Sonos feeding FLAC's to an MDA1000 will be equal to or better than an MS750 by itself and can be run fully balanced. More importantantly the MS750 is limited to 750gb, the network is unlimited (I'm running over 3tb on a hodge podge of internal and external drives!) A good NAS is even better and perfect for the Sonos.

Even if you pass on the VIAO, I would do the MDA1000 and figure out how to get your collection into FLAC and through the Sonos to the MDA1000.

What other equipment do you have?

Sony just released a new XL3:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=27932

There are probably great deals on the XL2 which is quite decent.

Honestly, Windows is just not for me. I have several Macs in the house, one of which is an Intel-powered laptop, which allows me to run Windows virtually for those rare times when I need it. As I have my system set up now, the Sonos is able to talk to my Mac and my Mac can talk to my AV setup (see description in my previous post) and both support Apple Lossless, which is good enough for me. Admittedly, I do not have an automated means of re-ripping my CD collection (given that it was originally ripped as MP3/AAC) but I work from home, so I can do a shelf at a time for a few weeks as I'm working... tedious, but a nice project for the winter months.

Your setup sounds like a good solution for a Windows household, though... :)

Apple Lossless through a Sonos coax digital into a MDA1000 will be an excellent solution on the quality front. It would equal or better an MS750. If you don't want to spring for the MDA1000, try a Benchmark. It's supposed to be terrific.

Apple Lossless through a Sonos coax digital into a MDA1000 will be an excellent solution on the quality front. It would equal or better an MS750. If you don't want to spring for the MDA1000, try a Benchmark. It's supposed to be terrific.

I think I will ultimately invest in an MDA1000, it's just a matter of priorities... I'm building this McIntosh system from the ground up so it will probably not be the first thing I spring for, but it will more than likely make its way onto the list.

My Sonos system is fine for casual listening, and great for parties where guests want to contribute to what's playing... however it also suffers from dropouts and dead spots that do not seem to occur on my regular 802.11n network... for this reason (and the fact that I already own an AppleTV) I'll probably not use the Sonos as a bridge to the AV setup, but keep it as its own separate system.

Out of curiosity, would you recommend a coax connection over an optical output? Both are digital, I believe... I had always considered them interchangeable, but I could be wrong of course.

Out of curiosity, would you recommend a coax connection over an optical output? Both are digital, I believe... I had always considered them interchangeable, but I could be wrong of course.
If you are asking about the output from the Apple, go with the optical. It sounds fantastic, is rock solid (no dropouts), and the ground is isolated.

If you are asking about the Sonos, I defer to those that have one. . . .

Apple Lossless through a Sonos coax digital into a MDA1000 will be an excellent solution on the quality front. It would equal or better an MS750. If you don't want to spring for the MDA1000, try a Benchmark. It's supposed to be terrific.

Exactly what I am going to do. Apple lossless on my Power G5mac. Then either use a network HD and connect to a Sonos player or network the sonos into the power mac (but i think i need my mac turned on then). Doesn't seem too difficult to unplug the HD and burn new disks every once in a while does it? :scratch2: Then Sonos into digital input of my Audio Aero player.:banana: