Just came back from the Lyle Lovett concert at the Palace in downtown Columbus down the street from me. The Palace was an old 20's movie house that was saved from the wreaking ball and now hosts concerts and shows. A special place with great acoustics. In fact that that was the first thing we mentioned as we walked into the place, "wow, nice room... better than anything we've seen this year". For once I did not miss my system while enduring another concert. I've seen Lyle before at another old movie house (Ohio Theatre) and knew the evening would be memorable... and it was. Great blend of nashville, gospel and swing jazz from his 15 piece band. We were about 14 rows back on the main floor about centre stage (good seats) and the sound was as good as I can remember. Not once did we snicker to ourselves about this or that lacking in the presentation. Well, accept Dan mentioning the silbance in his voice that always was present in our systems and now he felt more comfortable hearing that same raspy tone live. Highly recommended. We can't wait till he comes back to town!

MikE

:grnbounce Hey Mike:beer:

I've never seen Lyle in person but he DOES play an interesting mix of music.:guitar:

I know what you mean about those old theaters having good acoustics. Lots of them, built before "talkies", HAD to have good acoustics so the musical accompaniment to the silent movies would sound good from just about anywhere in the theater.

I've seen several of my favorite groups/musicians in such theaters and always enjoy them much more than in large venues like the St. Paul Civic Center (approx 18,000 capacity).

It also sounds like Lyle has his own sound crew. Many groups hire a local sound reinforcement crew (keeps costs down) and you can usually tell the difference. Great music + great sound crew = maximum enjoyment.

Your comment on "enduring" a concert puzzles me. I've followed your posts for quite some time, here at AK, at AU, AR and occasionally AA and it seems that your goal is to have a system that puits the musician(s) right in the room with you. (A goal of many enthusiasts.) In other words, recreating live performances.

Live is the ultimate "nothing in the signal path". Imperfections in the actual performance and imperfections in the acoustics are all part of the experience. I've been to concerts that were better than others, but live is always preferrable to recorded IMHO. Perhaps this comes from being a musician most of my life.

Here's something you might try. Go to a local audiologist and get a pair of fitted earplugs that cut sound above 95dB. Not only will they help keep your hearing undamaged, they help to reduce the echos and bounce of the large auditoriums. If you attend a lot of live shows, the expense is well worth it, and the benefits even more so.

:D Happy Listening:cool:

George

Hi George =

Most live amplified concerts I've been to sound like crap! My concert going buddie (an audiophile also) says the same thing. We go for the music, NOT THE SOUND. We get better imaging, soundstaging, presence (if not impact) at home. And for me even what is even MORE IMPORTANT, I lose myself in the music much more easily at home, with my system. The Lovett concert was a departure in many ways from the usual fare: great sound and great art!

As you may or may not know, I'm not attempting to replicate a "live performance" in my room. Or even the sound of an instrument in the clinical sense. Call that "romantic" or "low-fidelity" or "colored" but my goal is to present as neutral as possible a sound while still being enjoyable for hours on end. I used to find myself going to extremes to buffer the unwanted electronic artifacts of reproduction but as the standard of my system improved I no longer needed that crutch and instead could turn to more neutral devices. Once associated - neutrality - is difficult to turn from. Yet, I'm sure there is still some element of "my take on things" evident. My goal is to refine that to the point I'm not even aware of the presence of my own meddling. So that the presentation (in this respect) is seamless... and the technique invisable and one's attention is rivited on the art replayed and not on the manner that is accomplished.


MikE

:grnbounce Hey Mike:beer:

We certainly agree on one thing for sure; it's the music that's important.

One of my main enjoyments of life is constantly learning new things. This enthusiasm leads me to want to share the things I've learned. (This wish to share knowledge does not apply just to music, but to all aspects of life.) Thus, I shared some of the reasons that some live shows sound better than others.. After all, it's pretty hard to enjoy even the best music in the world if all you hear is echos, reverberations etc. I also wanted to share with you (and anyone else who frequent live shows) a way to enjoy the music more in noisy venues.

I wish you success at "removing" everything between the music and you. It's a tall order, without doubt.

As far as "imaging", "soundstage" and "presence", go, they are, by very definition, associated with live performance and I find it difficult to believe that any home system, no matter how carefully assembled will ever be able to produce those effects better than being there and witnessing them first hand.

With live, there's nothing between you and the music, but air. Live is ALWAYS better.:zoom:

:D Happy Listening:cool:

George

George -

As you mentioned, even "live" performance is affected by many things including human manipulation - a variable. I've found that in many of the aspects I enjoy, home replay - least IMS - is prefered to amplified production. Acoustic live my system is no match for the real thing. Other than SPL's, sheer impact and the size of the presentation I like my situation better. Though there is still nothing like taking in a live show - good or bad - and that's why I go; to see what happens, to compare/constrast presentations, and so forth. I guess thats why I spend as much time and money on my system vs globe-trotting to concerts 2-3 times a week. Luckily, my concerts are free as my buddie has promoter connections. Enjoy... live and replay... I realize the two are distant cousins.

MikE

I find that most live shows are only as good as the tech running the PA system unless you are lucky enough to get inside the cone of sound from them. I would say the average PA system and the operator ruin most shows for me. It is way too loud and the runs are incredibly long and typically the dynamics of the highs will fry your ear drums. Old theaters where the only amplification is done by the performers usually are quite good and a tech only has control of the microphones and just needs to get the volume to meld.

:grnbounce Hey Mike-Thatch:beer:

Mike, I used to have a friend in Minneapolis who was a concert promoter. Saw a lot of great shows back then. Mpls-St.Paul have some very good (and some VERY bad) concert venues. I sure niss those days.

As Thatch said, at an amplified show, the sound crew can make or break, although in some auditoriums the acoustics are so bad that the best sound crew in the world can't help.

I discovered attenuating ear plugs when I was working for a major hearing aid company. We made them for a lot of famous musicians (who decided they wanted to be able to hear anything after age 40. LOL). They work great. Not only by blocking sound above (usually) 95dB, they filter out a lot of the reverberations found in many large halls. Since they';re fitted, they're comfortable to wear for a good length of time.

BTW, if I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I'd love to listen to your system.

Thatch, gotta love those old theaters. Not only do they usually have good acoustics, the nostalgia of seeing shows in them adds something to the show.

:D Happy Listening:cool:
George

George,
Since you are in So. California make an effort to get into the Pantagious(I think that is right) in Hollywood. I think it is right at Hollywood and Vine. Nicest Deco theater I have ever seen, a little large but I didn't even care about Cats I getting into the architecture so much.
Mike,
Last night there was a repeat on the Tonight Show with Lyle Lovett as the musical guest. I enjoyed it a lot.

:grnbounce Hey Thatch:beer:

Thanks for the heads up. I have to be pretty selective about the concerts I plan to see. I'm unable to drive due to diabetic retinopathy so if the wife or son aren't interested, I don't go.. Definitely puts a damper on my concert going.:pity:

I'm in the Santa Clarita valley about 30-4-miles north of L.A., so cabs are a little spendy but fortunately my wife will go if it's someone I really want to see.

The last show I went to was Tower of Power, at place in Vacaville. (About 43 miles from Sacramento) Place was designed for about 1000 people and there were probably over 1500. With all those people, the room was almost echo free and TOP were cooking. Excellent show.

I have some friends back home (Minnesota) who are great fans of Lyle and tried to get me to go to see him several times. After downloading and listening to some of his music, I wish I had gone. Interesting mix. He must insist on good engineering because he sounds pretty good even on the HK speakers that came with my Dell.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing about other good places in L.A. I not only like the acoustics in those places, I truly enjoy the art decco style.

:D Happy Listening:cool:

George

:guitar: i have seen him twice. once under a tent with half his band and i sat in the 4th row, a really good show. the other time
was at the PNC arts center where he shared the bill with Bonnie
Raitt and he had his full large band. this was outstanding and i was 14th row center. i am a big fan of his music and songwriting.
oman