Allright,

This one should be pretty cut and dry.

Your favorite TT style, in general terms-

1) The direct drive, controlled by a center-mount (or close to) motor, where the platter is hooked through a series of intricate gears mounted over the motor and directly in the center of the turntable.

2) The rim drive/idler wheel turntable- a TT that utilizes an idler wheel that presses/locks up against a turntable's inner rim to spin the platter.

3) The belt drive/endless TT. This unit runs on a rubber belt, which wraps around a motor shaft (the motor usually isolated in some way from the platter), and then to a recessed inner rim of the turntable platter.

So, what say ye, and why?

It's awful late there in Mass isn't it?:D

Some of us are still up.

I voted belt drive. I like the isolation from the motor a flexible belt provides. It's also easier to replace a belt rather than an idler wheel.

Tom

I put direct drive, as the best tt I have ever owned (my Kenwood KD-750) is direct drive.:thmbsp:

After cleaning approximately 14,987 Gates TT's through the years
and scrubbing stylii, hosing off the nicotine grunge and putting up with
#10 axle grease on the bearings I voted for idler.

The DD story makes a pulse every time the electronics open the gate for horsepower to the slab. Can YOU feel the burn?

Rubber bands turn to cheese in free air. Fuhgeddaboudit!

So either we use a water wheel where the weight of falling water moves
the turbine paddles or we're going for the idler. The RtR decks have idlers, but they're on the take up, I know. As long as Parts is Parts we should be able to get wheels, neh? Being inside the slab keeps greazy fingers off the business end, too.

Hal

Belt drive is my choice too. It's just so freakin' simple. Both of the DD tables I have owned finally got to the point that I couldn't adjust to a steady speed (mind, this was when they reached 20+ years of age), but my belt drive tables have been reliable with only a couple of belt changes and attention to lubrication.

Direct drive (Yamaha PX-3) and belt drive (Rega Planar 2).

I like the simplicity of the belt drive, but my favorite players have been Direct Drive.

So, in theory, the belt drive units. In practice, the Direct Drive.

Never heard an idler wheel model, but have heard great things about them. Seems it may be thee best choice, but without personal ecperience, I dunno.

I went direct just because the best table I've heard are DD. I like my SL 1200 a lot. I like it better than my friend's Rega. But I'm not really being fair. I haven't ever owned a really good belt drive.

I went direct just because the best table I've heard are DD. I like my SL 1200 a lot. I like it better than my friend's Rega. But I'm not really being fair. I haven't ever owned a really good belt drive.

Eddie,

what model Rega?

I'd like a working TT.

cubdog

Looks like I just put DD up by 1.:yes:

Rob

All I have owned is DD.
I probably want to change my answer when I buy a Dual
:D

Eddie,

what model Rega?

I believe it is a Planar 2. He had quite a bit of trouble with it. Belt, then bearing grease, then some weird allignement problem with the new belt. It sounds fine, but it's a little whisp of a thing. My mighty Technics could fall on it and not notice.

I have to go with direct drive

Oracle belt drive

Evan

I can't say that I have a favorite. There are excellent and poor examples of all 3 drives. I don't own an idler, but would love to have an old Garrard 301 or modded Lenco 75. I guess if I HAD to pick one, I pick DD for the low wow and flutter, speed consistency and general no fuss.

Lenco gl75

also like my 2 thorens td-125's

but there is something about an idler in a 75lb. base

Belt drive for me. TT for me is the Marantz SLT-12 or 12U. When 1 of these is working there is nothing that can touch it. Next of the list would be the Empire lineup, any of them.

Considering my choice of TT I go for belt drive. :thmbsp: It just doesn't get any easier. :yes:
:music:

Tough call. I think if I was forced to trim down my TTs to just one, it would probably be the Oracle Delphi so I guess I will go with belt drive. By everytime I use my Technics SL-120, I wonder if I shouldn't look for a SP-10mKII for my next turntable. Then again, I can't wait to get my TD-124...

TT shootout perhaps, Oracle Delphi Vs. Technics SP-25 vs. Thorens TD-124...

I've one each belt drive (VPI HW-19) and DD (Kenwood KD500), but I prefer belt drive for the added isolation from the motor, and the ability to mount the motor separate from the TT chasis/platter/bearing assembly for even better vibration isolation.

Belt Drive for me, have always derived low noise floor with them.
Jim

I own all three types and prefer the direct drive.

AT THEIR BEST, i would vote for direct drive. The idea that they have "pulsing" etc... only applied to the earlier models and cheaper models, and is something that was promoted by their competitors (mostly British labels who didn't have the resources to compete against the Japanese technology, without resorting to half-lies and propaganda!). Later, high-end brushless, coreless ones with multiple Hall controllers or better, some with air bearings, are absolutely smooth and solid, with a torque that is higher than almost anything else. In terms of statistics, very little out there even comes close, and my ears seem to agree with the stats, in most cases.

Direct drives have been used for several decades for all commercial cutting lathes on which records are made, because they can maintain speed stability against the drag of the cutting blade... just as they can against needle drag. Only idler-wheel drives can compete, in this regard, and it audibly affects sound quality.

To get anywhere close to the same inertia and speed stability of a well-made DD, a belt drive needs a platter that weighs perhaps 50 pounds or more, and needs several minutes to achieve even close to the inertial rotational speed stability that a good DD achieves in less than one second. The size and weight requirements limits these models to the exotic/boutique range: the mass-produced Regas, even up to the Thorens (EXCEPT the Reference and Prestige models!) just don't quite equal the best DDs. The issue of elasticity of rubber belts, or vibration transfer of stiffer materials, is real. However, the BEST belt drives --the extreme ones with massive platters, etc... are probably the functional equal of direct drives, but on a value-for-money and availability basis, the DDs still rule.

Perhaps the most interesting ones are the idler wheel drives. They are rightfully known for their drive, pace, slam, etc... because the active "pushing" of the idler wheel overcomes the varying drag of the stylus against the vinyl, and creates a more lively and accurate sound than most belt drives are capable of. Again, only the huge-platter exotics have sufficient "flywheel momentum" not to suffer from this... and that is a major reason why decades-old tweaked-out Garrards can beat the best that VPI or Thorens can/do offer today. It's why both those brands decided to work on (re-)introducing idler-wheel models, after they had stopped making them.

You can't completely overcome the weakness of a belt drive, short of something special, on the level of a Walker Proscenium (which IS the equal or better of even the best "mass production" direct drives... but at that level, a Rockport Sirius III probably edges it out, and it is a DD!).

The trade-off with idler wheel drives is that it is difficult to get rid of motor noise with the motors they use, given the direct contact through the idler-wheel itself. Thorens tried a hybrid approach with an idler-wheel driven by a belt, but that just re-introduces a lot of the wow and flutter of a belt drive.

The best DD motors create a torque that is equal to that of an idler wheel, and which adjusts its force according to the drag presented against it, giving results at least as good as an idler wheel, but using electrical force in place of the physical wheel-contact force. However, these DD motors do not offer the motor noise found in the idler-wheel motors. That's why my overall vote goes to direct drive models. At the top end of the mass-produced models, they are superior. At the top end of the boutique models, I believe they also come out on top, due mainly to the Rockport Sirius mentioned already.

To be fair, ALL THREE types of drive can have OUTSTANDING sound, when done right/best ... and at the very top levels, it is difficult to decide between "different but equal" sounds. Some people like the slightly "warmer" sound of a belt drive: a tiny bit of distortion or "smearing" can sound comfortable, even thought it may be almost inaudibly small, and if that is what you are used to, suddenly hearing the greater detail and realism of a DD or idler-wheel can seem almost "harsh"... although much of the time, perhaps what is being heard is weaknesses either in the recording itself (mixing decisions), or in the rest of the system, normally not noticeable when the detail isn't as clear to begin with.

From the standpoint of theoretical engineering and physics, the better DDs should be superior... and in practice, they seem to be, too, at least at the levels of cost and availability that "mortals" can aspire to.

NOTE ONE: AT CHEAPER LEVELS, belt drives sound better, because it is much easier and cheaper to make a decent belt drive than a good direct drive. [Lots of people make great DIY belt drive TTs for themselves. When did you hear of someone making their own DIY direct drive?] If you can't find one of the better (later-era, Japan market) DDs, then a belt drive will probably sound better. If you haven't heard the best DD models, then you'll probably vote for a belt drive or idler-wheel.

NOTE TWO: I have heard Garrard 301 and 401 models in typical plinths, Lenco and EMT players, but have yet to hear the famed Shindo TTs. Perhaps one of those would change my mind and get me to move idler wheels above DDs?

NOTE THREE: Things like cartridges and styli, wires, and the rest of the system have an enormous impact on sound. In fact, the cartridge and tonearm, I believe, have a bigger impact on sound than the type of drive used to move the record. Also, there are issues of synergy: just as some carts and arms sound better together, so, too, do some cart-arm combinations sound better on certain turntables (or turntable types) than on others. Mats also can play a big role. All this makes it very difficult to truly say one type of TT is "better" or "best". In theory, I think the Rockport Sirius III --direct drive table with linear tracking arm, both tweaked out to the extreme extent of their technology-- is probably the closest thing ever produced to a "perfect" turntable. But if someone wants to give me a Walker Proscenium, or even a Shindo, instead, I sure won't complain! I like 'em ALL! :D

Sorry for another long post, but this issue is so complex, I don't think it is right to simply give an answer, without some justification and some discussion of all the compromises and offsetting factors that go into choosing one answer. The truth is, each different approach to spinning an LP has its strengths and its weaknesses.

I believe issues like this tend to be preference more than anything. I think all three have their merits, but for ease of use and low maintenance, I'd lean towards the DD. I've owned and demoed various mid to TOTL belt drives in the past, and I was very pleased with their sound. However, when it came time to get a better table, I settled on a Technics SL-1210 MK2 purely from a maintenance perspective.

With the right upgrades (better interconnects, Cardas wire) and a good cartridge, I have been pleased with my decision. I know that there are plenty of other turntables available, but considering my entire investment cost me less than $300, including the table, I'd say it was a good choice. Eventually, I would like to get a Rega Planar 3, or a heavily modified AR, but as of right now, I am pleased with my decision.

Thorens TD160S - absolutely superb - belt drive and manual for me, Oh - and an SME IIIS arm.

Definitely direct-drive. The classic Technics SL 1200 or better yet the Numark TT500 is amazing!!!!!!

I'll throw down here. For me, one-touch, fully automatic direct drives are the cat's arse. YMMV.