The other day I was doing homework and wanted some background noise, so I put it on a music channel they have hear in Canada, which was playing 24 hour party people. Once Joy Division came on the movie I was no longer doing work but listing to one of my new favorite bands! I was just blown away that I had never heard of this awesome newwave punk band. So the next day I went out and bought the new reissues of Closer and Unknown Pleasures, and now im sure my vinyl addict side will bring some more of their stuff home:)

You were busy listening to Bridge Of Sighs? :D

I'm with you, Trower.

Joy Division was always on in the background at all the hipster parties I attended in college, but I never focused on them until recently.

24 Hour Party People is quite funny. There is also a new movie called "Control" about Ian Curtis that is supposed to be worth seeing.

only one I know from them is Love Will Tear Us Apart trower, great tune!

Great band, I got hooked after buying Unknown Pleasures as a .25 cutout at Woolworth back in '81 or so. Not exactly happy music though!

If you're just getting into them go see "Control". I don't know if it's in wide release, but it's showing here in Chicago. They were my favorite band in college..I was a bit obsessed, actually. But anyway..Control is really well done, and was produced by Ian Curtis' wife and filmed by a friend of the band who actually took many of the iconic photos of them.

I'd also recommend the box set if you can still find it. A depressing band? Yes, but man did they do it right. A lot of current bands are simply copying what they did almost exactly. (Interpol).

Also, if you really like them I'd check out another band that came from Manchester right after them...The Chameleons. (sometimes under "The Chameleons UK). Most of the friends I had in college who loved Joy Division also loved them. And once you hear them you'll understand..very similar dark/post-punk sound.

-john

The movie 'Control' and the history of Joy Division is this months, 'Record Collector' magazine cover story. Highly recommended!!
My g/f saw 'Control" last week, (I had to work) She loved it. She recommends it!!
Although the film is not really about Joy Division, it's about Ian Curtis' life, and he just happened to be in Joy Division.

It is still hard to believe that a band who recorded only one record, almost 30 years ago, could still be considered so relevant, and the topic of such discussion, 27 years after their then unknown singer killed himself.

Although the film is not really about Joy Division, it's about Ian Curtis' life, and he just happened to be in Joy Division.

.

Yes but Ian Curtis WAS Joy Division. Without him you've just got New Order. Ok, not really true but in a literal sense. :thmbsp:

Joy Division is great, and if you can't afford the box set then get a copy of "Still," which has many of those songs on it. I like a lot of that material better than the official albums. In fact, I don't really care much for "Closer."

However Trower, you should definitely heed JohnVF's advice about The Chameleons (UK), one of my favorite bands of all time. Get yourself a copy of "Script of the Bridge" and see what you think, as that one's generally considered their best (I prefer the later "Strange Times" and rare final EP "Tony Fletcher Walked on Water"). With some patience you should be able to get a fairly cheap copy of "Script..." on the bay.

Dave

Yes but Ian Curtis WAS Joy Division. Without him you've just got New Order. Ok, not really true but in a literal sense. :thmbsp:
I'm just repeating what those involved had to say about the movie in the 'Record Collector' piece. Hook, Sumner, Morris, and Corbijn all stressed in their interviews, that film is not about Joy Division, but about Ian.

You're absolutely right about it being about Ian, I was just making a fan-joke. I do love New Order, though. It's a bio-pic about Ian, and Joy Division is just the backdrop. It's a fantastic movie. My girlfriend and I are itching to see it again before it leaves the theater. I still can't get over how much the actor looks like him...and the music in the film was done live on set WITH the actors playing it, and sounds almost dead-on, and definitely looks dead on to the live footage I have of them.

And I'd recommend "Unknown Pleasures" as the place to start but to by no means stop there.

Many scholars will say that the first use of the term Goth being applied to music was in an article on Joy Division in NME. The Chameleon's were pretty good but I would suggest early Bauhaus or the Cure if you like Joy Division.

By the way, the name raised a huge backlash in UK journalists. It was the name given to women in Germany that the soldiers impregnated during WWII.

Also check out the comp "Still," it has some of my favorite Joy Division songs and some interesting live tracks as well.

Many bands formed in the wake Joy Division of course, but my favorite is a New Zealand band called Nocturnal Projections. They only put out a few records but you'll be rewarded if you find them.

By the way, the name raised a huge backlash in UK journalists. It was the name given to women in Germany that the soldiers impregnated during WWII.

Official state prostitutes, to keep up troop morale, is the story I've read.

Yes but Ian Curtis WAS Joy Division. Without him you've just got New Order. Ok, not really true but in a literal sense. :thmbsp:

I know you're just making a joke (a good one too), but I'll use this as an opportunity to educate the neophytes: New Order is definitely NOT Joy Division, continued. It's a totally different sound. They went all dancey and stuff. Wire, who came along earlier but also fashioned a harder, emotionally distant sound, underwent a similar transmogrification about the same time. In retrospect it was obviously about survival, to put a more fine point on it, money.

I second Nocturnal Progressions, pretty amazing.

Nocturnal Projections, DOH!

:thmbsp: Good name for a Nocturnal Projections cover band...

I know you're just making a joke (a good one too), but I'll use this as an opportunity to educate the neophytes: New Order is definitely NOT Joy Division, continued. It's a totally different sound. They went all dancey and stuff. Wire, who came along earlier but also fashioned a harder, emotionally distant sound, underwent a similar transmogrification about the same time. In retrospect it was obviously about survival, to put a more fine point on it, money.

Wire ARE highly recommended as well. I loved both 'Pink Flag' and '154'.:thmbsp:
Though, I haven't listened to them in years.


I agree, New Order are most definitely NOT Joy Division PT 2. I can't believe they were 3/4 of the same band.
And the story about 'state prostitutes' is the story I've always heard, as well!!

Wire ARE highly recommended as well. I loved both 'Pink Flag' and '154'.:thmbsp:
Though, I haven't listened to them in years.




Agreed, those are the ones to get, along with Chairs Missing. But also like you, I haven't listened to a Wire track in ages. :scratch2:

:thmbsp: Good name for a Nocturnal Projections cover band...

It sort of was. I've written their name wrong before in my Doctoral Dissertation because a college friend worshipped them and named his band N.Progressions.

Well, as big of a Joy Division fan as I am I do like New Order, too, but for different reasons. I think JD were headed in the dance (referred to in the press as "death disco") direction before Ian died. If one would want to make the transition from JD to New Order, I'd recommend Power, Corruption & Lies. It took about a decade, but I eventually became a big fan of New Order. Maybe because every girl that I have ever met that was a New Order fan was very very hot.

-john

Well, as big of a Joy Division fan as I am I do like New Order, too, but for different reasons. I think JD were headed in the dance (referred to in the press as "death disco") direction before Ian died. If one would want to make the transition from JD to New Order, I'd recommend Power, Corruption & Lies. It took about a decade, but I eventually became a big fan of New Order. Maybe because every girl that I have ever met that was a New Order fan was very very hot.

-john

Yes I agree. More hot girls liked New Order, than any guys did. I came not to hate New Order, mainly because so many hot girls I knew always had them playing in the background. LOL

And 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' was kinda dance oriented, and they seemed to be leaning in that direction, before Ian died. So who's to say what would have happened, or how they would have sounded, had Ian lived.

I know you're just making a joke (a good one too), but I'll use this as an opportunity to educate the neophytes: New Order is definitely NOT Joy Division, continued. It's a totally different sound.

Except for their first album "Movement":thmbsp:

In retrospect it was obviously about survival, to put a more fine point on it, money.

I'm afraid I have to totally disagree with this, however.

I'm afraid I have to totally disagree with this, however.
I'd have to agree I don't think bands adopt a musical style/sound based on 'survival' or worse, 'money'.

dang guys, me and another guy were the only posters to a thread he started the other day about the movie 'Control'....GO SEE THIS MOVIE!! even if you don't know a damned thing about the band, it is a great film. and the performance segments actually played by the actors are incredible. all the raw power of JD, it is really quite amazing.

i have been a fan since i heard 'she's lost control' playing over the PA of a club in 80 or 81 and was compelled to find out who that was.

this kind of brings up the whole 'post-punk' thing-- a contemporary of JD, or perhaps slightly behind them was a little outfit called Young Marble Giants-- an extremely sparse, dark sound with an ice voiced girl vocalist, only did one album and i think one EP, definitely worth looking up...

I fully intend to see Control, not only because everyone here is raving about it, but also because I saw an extended trailer and it looked amazing!

Yes, what he said. Go see Control!

I think that Joy Division was already headed in New Order territory before Ian did himself in. "Love Will Tear Us Apart.","These Days", and "Ceremony" were all in that direction, though Ceremony definitely had more of a darkness when he sang it (and more anger...see the live version on Still). Maybe they would have been New Order with more depressing lyrics.

Did I say go see Control yet?

Yes, what he said. Go see Control!

I think that Joy Division was already headed in New Order territory before Ian did himself in. "Love Will Tear Us Apart.","These Days", and "Ceremony" were all in that direction, though Ceremony definitely had more of a darkness when he sang it (and more anger...see the live version on Still). Maybe they would have been New Order with more depressing lyrics.

Did I say go see Control yet?

I have the same impression when comparing the end of Joy Division and the transition to New Order. I love New Order. Any band from the 80s that still makes excellent albums is ok by me.

........And 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' was kinda dance oriented............


:scratch2:

I'd have to agree I don't think bands adopt a musical style/sound based on 'survival' or worse, 'money'.

I'd really like to think not as well. I guess it's the cynic in me talking.

:scratch2:
You disagree, I take it?

I certainly would NOT call LWTUA, a 'punk' song?
Come on, the melody is carried by an airy jaunty synth riff.

Other than lyrically, it sounds to me, musically, like a happy little pop/dance tune. There is really nothing dark or foreboding about the instrumentation/ arrangement/production. Although I will admit, Ian's vocal delivery sounds tortured. I guess, the dichotomy of the songs elements is what makes it so compelling after 30 years.

Which leads to the point of, the sound of the records. The reason Joy Division sound as we think they do, on record at least, had a great deal to do with Martin Hannett And his sick and twisted genius.

On many of Joy Division's songs they employ an old songwriting trick of dark lyrics juxtaposed by a major key dominant music. Another 80s band, The Smiths, also did this to great effect.

They also would wallow in a minor key music and depressing lyric. This, in my opinion, was taken to the hilt by The Cure in their LP "Pornography".

A newer band called Interpol has an uncanny resemblance to early Joy Division.

You were busy listening to Bridge Of Sighs? :D

I probably was:music: But man I'm surprised at all the response from this, I figured Joy Division to be more of an obscure band that not many liked, but I guess I was wrong. I defiantly want to go see Control, and thanks for all the band suggestions I will be looking these all up. I don't know if this is a good thing or not, I know my wallet wont be thanking me.

They are obscure to the mainstream, but mainstream to the obscure. Ok, that didn't make sense. what I'm trying to say is that in the alternative/indie/college rock whatever it is called these days, Joy Division are quite popular by their standards. They're kind of the Pink Floyd/Zeppelin of dark new wave/post punk. At least that's how I always saw them, popularity wise.

They are obscure to the mainstream, but mainstream to the obscure. Ok, that didn't make sense.

Made perfect sense!

Different but related- I've been listening to a lot of My Bloody Valentine. I also want to get out my old Bauhaus CD after reading this thread.

and i repeat, Young Marble Giants, album title Colossal Youth.

and btw, what's so bad about dance oriented music? if rock in general isn't dance music, what is it? i mean that's the roots of the genre, isn't it? sposed to make ya wanna shake that money maker right?

lots of Talking Heads had that dance beat, too. lots of great stuff with a dance beat. are ya sposed to try to hold back and nod your head while punching a devil horn hand in the air as a substitute for 'dancing'?

They are obscure to the mainstream, but mainstream to the obscure. Ok, that didn't make sense. what I'm trying to say is that in the alternative/indie/college rock whatever it is called these days, Joy Division are quite popular by their standards. They're kind of the Pink Floyd/Zeppelin of dark new wave/post punk. At least that's how I always saw them, popularity wise.


Yeah, it seems to me like JD has gotten a lot more popular in the last 4 or 5 years. That's very cool, but in my opinion there are plenty of relatively unheard of bands in that basic genre that are considerably better, just undiscovered for now. The Chameleons and The Sound are two examples and happen to be two of my favorite bands of all time. Although lately I get the feeling people are catching on to those two as well.

and i repeat, Young Marble Giants, album title Colossal Youth.

and btw, what's so bad about dance oriented music? if rock in general isn't dance music, what is it? i mean that's the roots of the genre, isn't it? sposed to make ya wanna shake that money maker right?

lots of Talking Heads had that dance beat, too. lots of great stuff with a dance beat. are ya sposed to try to hold back and nod your head while punching a devil horn hand in the air as a substitute for 'dancing'?

Shrinkboy I haven't heard of them, but I will check it out.

dang guys, me and another guy were the only posters to a thread he started the other day about the movie 'Control'....GO SEE THIS MOVIE!! even if you don't know a damned thing about the band, it is a great film. and the performance segments actually played by the actors are incredible. all the raw power of JD, it is really quite amazing.

i have been a fan since i heard 'she's lost control' playing over the PA of a club in 80 or 81 and was compelled to find out who that was.

this kind of brings up the whole 'post-punk' thing-- a contemporary of JD, or perhaps slightly behind them was a little outfit called Young Marble Giants-- an extremely sparse, dark sound with an ice voiced girl vocalist, only did one album and i think one EP, definitely worth looking up...

I came in half way through a movie review show a few months back..... there were some people talking in an audience and in the background on stage was JD playing (well an actor playing) but I've been tryign since to work out the movie......... must have been COntrol I guess. The guy doing the I.Curtis bit on stage was so spot-on with his acting I was astounded !! Almost channeling !

Joy Division is great, and if you can't afford the box set then get a copy of "Still," which has many of those songs on it. I like a lot of that material better than the official albums. In fact, I don't really care much for "Closer."

However Trower, you should definitely heed JohnVF's advice about The Chameleons (UK), one of my favorite bands of all time. Get yourself a copy of "Script of the Bridge" and see what you think, as that one's generally considered their best (I prefer the later "Strange Times" and rare final EP "Tony Fletcher Walked on Water"). With some patience you should be able to get a fairly cheap copy of "Script..." on the bay.

Dave

If you're just getting into them go see "Control". I don't know if it's in wide release, but it's showing here in Chicago. They were my favorite band in college..I was a bit obsessed, actually. But anyway..Control is really well done, and was produced by Ian Curtis' wife and filmed by a friend of the band who actually took many of the iconic photos of them.

I'd also recommend the box set if you can still find it. A depressing band? Yes, but man did they do it right. A lot of current bands are simply copying what they did almost exactly. (Interpol).

Also, if you really like them I'd check out another band that came from Manchester right after them...The Chameleons. (sometimes under "The Chameleons UK). Most of the friends I had in college who loved Joy Division also loved them. And once you hear them you'll understand..very similar dark/post-punk sound.

-john

The Chameleons ROCK!!! :smoke: I first heard them in '82 (Less than Human/In Shreds) and was hooked! John Lever is still pluggin' away - listen/check it out at http://www.myspace.com/CLUBCHAMELEON

'Strange Times' stands out for me as the album of angst. 'Does Anything really Mean, Basically' is my favourite for many reasons, being released in May of '85 being one of them (it was a good summer). But 'Pleasure and Pain' brings 'Script of the Bridge' in at a close 2nd place. Quite a powerful song!

Of course many probably know what Bernard Sumner did upon his Joy Division departure- worked with Johnny Marr, Neil Tennant, Karl Bartos and others. Good stuff there, too - but dancy (not really where Joy Division was at). I enjoy the upbeat sounds at times, but for me, Joy Division was more akin to Bauhaus, Peter Murphy, Sisters of Mercy and early Siouxsie (and the Banshees of course) than to anything Bernard put out after Ian's death.

Back to Joy Div. - last I read, LWTUA recharted in '98 at #19 on the Brit charts. Seems very few forgot the boys from Manchester (with over 20 covers of the song, is it any wonder?). Oh - and then there are are the Smiths (another Manchester heavy-hitter), which I can't get enough of, but I digress.

-Dave

and i repeat, Young Marble Giants, album title Colossal Youth.

and btw, what's so bad about dance oriented music? if rock in general isn't dance music, what is it? i mean that's the roots of the genre, isn't it? sposed to make ya wanna shake that money maker right?

lots of Talking Heads had that dance beat, too. lots of great stuff with a dance beat. are ya sposed to try to hold back and nod your head while punching a devil horn hand in the air as a substitute for 'dancing'?

Yes, I agree, R&R began as early R&B mixed with proto-rock-a-billy both of which were music played for dancers. Industrial began as dance music and has ended up as harder than any heavy metal ever made.

They are obscure to the mainstream, but mainstream to the obscure.

That is a brilliant description.

Joy Division was dark, but they made you feel better knowing someone felt darker than you. The Smiths and early Cure were the same way.

Joy Division's influence is being heard in several modern bands such as Interpol and Calla.

This thread made me reread a book by Deborah Curtis called "Touching From A Distance". I assme this was used to write the movie script. A good, and chilling, read.

I listened to a few Colossal Youth tracks and liked it. I was surprised to hear female vocals; I guess since this is a thread about JD I was thinking male vocals.

mr. lin-- the young marbles released 'colossal youth' in early 1980, almost synchonous with ian's suicide. JD opened the post punk door, and bands like YMG walked through. the music is superb, compact, minimal, gorgeous, completely unique. like JD. i am glad you liked it...