View Full Version : Rectilinear Redux


joelongwood
11-13-2007, 01:51 PM
For whatever reason, Rectilinear speakers seem to fly under the radar, except for the famous, large Rectilinear III, in particular the earlier High Boy version. Even those can be had for very little outlay, most likely because, being so big and heavy, they are usually for pick-up only. I picked up both the High and Low boy versions in that manner.
But I began to wonder about the other speakers they manufactured, particularly late 60s/early 70s models that were being produced in the company's heyday. In particular, I wanted to hear the Mini III.
I was fortunate to pick up a pair in excellent condition locally for $50. I've been listening to them for a few weeks now, and, to these old ears, they are very impressive little speakers. Since I haven't taken the grill cloth off (it doesn't look easy!), I can only go by what I've read..........namely that they are a sealed 3-way with the famous whizzer cone Philips midrange driver that handles most of the frequency range, an 8 inch woofer, and the same tweeter as the larger III. I'm driving them with a Harman Kardon HK/730 Twin Powered Receiver, which seems to have more than enough juice to make these babies sing..........and sing they do. They have a very smooth, balanced sound, similar to their larger brethren. Bass is excellent, with no boominess at all. Of course, the sound isn't nearly as "big," as the large IIIs, but that's obviously to be expected. I would recommend these to anyone who wants a taste of the Rectilinear sound for a very small entry price, or anyone looking for a smooth sounding, smallish bookshelf speaker which seems to do just about everything right, especially considering its diminutive size.
I also just (today) received a pair of Rectilinear XI in excellent, almost new condition. Except for a sliver of veneer missing from the bottom front molding, I can't even find a scratch on the walnut! I used some Howard's Feed-N-Wax on the finish, and it looks brand new.
These are a few inches larger than the Mini IIIs, and they differ in other ways as well. Whereas the Mini IIIs have a brown cloth grill, similar to some I've seen on the larger III High Boys, the XI has a very funky molded plastic grill, very similar to that found on the LowBoys......it just screams 70s!
Also, they are a ported two way, with a 10" woofer and a 4" (frame diameter) cone tweeter. I'm driving them with Merrylander Yamaha CR-600, and they are downright wonderful sounding. I had a pair of AR4x in their place originally, and the 4Xs have now taken up residence in the storage area. Maybe the fact I paid $13 for these on that auction site has something to do with it, but I find them to be smooth, balanced transducers, with a bit more top end than the Mini IIIs, and a lot more up top than the 4xs, although the ARs could go deeper into the bass region. But I don't hear any of the boominess from the XI that is often associted with ported systems.
The tweeter control pots are fully functional with no dead spots, and I have them set in the normal range. I have some jazz (Stanly Turrentine) playing right now, and the horns are incredibly realistic.
Now I would like to hear more Rectilinear models from 1968-1973 (their supposed heyday), particularly the Xa, billed as the "world's fastest bookshelf speaker."
Sorry I don't have any pics.........waiting for a new camera............hopefully for Christmas. :D

Kencat
11-13-2007, 06:02 PM
It's nice to read about not so common speakers. Good write-up :thmbsp:

Always good to have the different models in mind in case you run into something somewhere. :yes:

mave
11-14-2007, 06:09 AM
I have a pair of the rectilinear XI also. Like you really liked the sound I've had them put up for a while now just might have to get them back out and listen to them again for a while.

bozak ron
11-14-2007, 08:29 AM
Joe, thanks for the write up. I have a pair of Rectilinear III highboys, but have never heard the models you mention. I've always wondered how they sound relative to the highboys; now I know to keep my eyes open for them as well.

Susurus
11-14-2007, 04:08 PM
Never seen one. While Googling for pics, I found an interview with a guy involved in the design of the Rectilinear III, VI, and X:

An Interview with James Bongiorno (http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/bongiorno_e.html)

What a sad statement on the audio industry of that era that he was never paid for resigning those. :grumpy::deal:

You can't keep a creative and industrious force down for long though. :yes:

A lot of SAE, GAS, Ampzilla, Sumo, came from his talents.

Accordian player and headphones...

.

Since I'm a Dahlquist fan, it would be great to know timelines when people intersected...Shahinian and Bongiorno first, then Jon Dahlquist after Bongiorno left?

Okay here's a pic of the Lowboy. (http://sportsbil.com/stereo/lowboy/)

6-element, 4 way, with a port?
Are those outer, smaller drivers in a cross-patch arrangement? Would that be unique?


Highboy pics (http://www.gallagher.com/ebay.htm)
Again a strange positioning of the drivers. Tweets diagonally in the corners.

Njord Noatun
11-14-2007, 04:52 PM
Thanks, Joelongwood, for reviewing those less renowned Rectilinears, and specifically the Mini-III. I have owned a Lowboy (mine is the one linked to from Susurus' above post) that I regrettably sold, and currently use the Highboy as my main speaker. The two sound remarkably similar (to my ears), but I never thought the later Rectis amounted to much until I had a discussion with the buyer of my Lowboy. He had owned a pair of Mini-III when he was young, again stupidly passed it on, and had been looking for another pair ever since: He calls the Mini-III the "AR-4xa killer". If I hadn't known that Joelongwood was after this pair of Mini-III, I would have brought his attention to the auction.

Even more interesing that the lowly-looking Model 11 is good! :thmbsp: Now I only wonder what the IIIa and Model V sound like. Is that it - III Highboy, III Lowboy, IIIa, Mini-III, Models V and XI? :scratch2: Is there a Model VI, too?

joelongwood
11-14-2007, 05:11 PM
Okay here's a pic of the Lowboy. (http://sportsbil.com/stereo/lowboy/)

6-element, 4 way, with a port?
Are those outer, smaller drivers in a cross-patch arrangement? Would that be unique?


Highboy pics (http://www.gallagher.com/ebay.htm)
Again a strange positioning of the drivers. Tweets diagonally in the corners.
According to their advertisements, even though the High and Low Boys were in physically different cabinets, the internal volume of each was the same, and the sound was supposed to be exactly the same as well. I can tell you that definitely is not true.....the Lowboys put out a lot more bass, and unless the lattice grills are removed, the sound is quite muddy.
Also, according to Rectilinear literature, both systems are 3 way, even though each system consists of a woofer, midrange, 2 tweeters, and 2 super tweeters. Here's the details:
Below 500 and above 3000 Hz, the crossover network of the Rectilinear III rolls off the response of the midrange driver at the rate of 6 dB per octave... Two 2 1/2-inch (tweeters) cover the range from 3000 Hz up. The slightly larger tweeters contribute more to the response above 11,000 Hz. Thus there exists a virtual acoustic crossover at 11,000 Hz, even though all four drivers are connected in series-parallel.

joelongwood
11-14-2007, 05:23 PM
Thanks, Joelongwood, for reviewing those less renowned Rectilinears, and specifically the Mini-III. I have owned a Lowboy (mine is the one linked to from Susurus' above post) that I regrettably sold, and currently use the Highboy as my main speaker. The two sound remarkably similar (to my ears), but I never thought the later Rectis amounted to much until I had a discussion with the buyer of my Lowboy. He had owned a pair of Mini-III when he was young, again stupidly passed it on, and had been looking for another pair ever since: He calls the Mini-III the "AR-4xa killer". If I hadn't known that Joelongwood was after this pair of Mini-III, I would have brought his attention to the auction.

Even more interesing that the lowly-looking Model 11 is good! :thmbsp: Now I only wonder what the IIIa and Model V sound like. Is that it - III Highboy, III Lowboy, IIIa, Mini-III, Models V and XI? :scratch2: Is there a Model VI, too?
I find the High and Low Boys to sound similar as well......IF......the plastic grill is removed from the Low Boys. With that grill on, to my ears anyway, they sound like polar opposites. Even with the grill off however, the High Boys still seem to have greater detail and transparency.
As for the other models, I've read that the IIIa was a real dog. Judging by the pics I've seen, it appears to be rather cheaply made, almost DIY. There is a pair now on that auction site which has been relisted........it didn't even garner one bid last time, even though it started at 1 penny!!!!
I think that the company began it's downhill slide sometime in 1973-1974, although the 5 and the 7 did receive some good reviews (so I've read).
The models I'm still interested in are the pre-1973 Xa, billed as the "world's fastest bookshelf speaker," the XIa, possibly a redesign of the XI which I just acquired, and the XII. I'm going by what I can find in my old stereo mags from that era, and what I've researched on the 'Net. I wish there was a little more reasoning and logic behind the model names they came up with. :D

EDIT: Just thought of a possible reason why my pairs of High and Lowboys sound so different. I have one of the earlier High Boy versions, with one pot in the back for the tweeter, the mid is slightly different in that it has a slightly smaller whizzer cone, and the tweeters are all square framed. The Lowboy is identical to later Highboys, with round framed tweeters, a larger whizzer cone on the mid, and two controls in back, one for midrange and one for tweeters. Just a thought.

mave
11-15-2007, 03:52 AM
Joe... I went and took some pictures of mine so other people can see these. I forgot to take pics of back but can get them up if anybody wants to see them.

Klownschool
11-15-2007, 04:30 AM
Joe... I went and took some pictures of mine so other people can see these. I forgot to take pics of back but can get them up if anybody wants to see them.

Do you know what might be a good replacement tweeter for these? I need to find something to replace the missing originals.

Rick

joelongwood
11-15-2007, 07:11 AM
Joe... I went and took some pictures of mine so other people can see these. I forgot to take pics of back but can get them up if anybody wants to see them.
Thanks for the pics, Mave. Mine are the same, except mine have a square patch of soft black fabric that is stapled over the tweeter. It looks to be a factory install, and I'm wondering if it was done to tame a too hot top end.
Have you listened to them, Mave? Impressions?

stickman
11-15-2007, 05:12 PM
The mid 70's Rectilinear models 5 & 7 were excellent speakers. I purchased a slightly used pair of model 5's after doing extensive listening comparisons at a lot of the stereo shops here in the Los Angeles about 1976. Pacific Stereo had them in a demo room next to JBL L-100's and I much preferred the Rectilinears. I was working at the Design Acoustics speaker factory at the time but was not impressed by any of the models they offered, even though I could have picked up B-stock blems for dirt cheap. The Rectilinear's rocked and I think would compare well to the Pioneer HPM-100's so beloved in these parts.

The model 5 used a 12" foam surround woofer for bass, a 7" Phillips full range driver with whizzer cone and butyl rubber surround for the upper bass & lower midrange, a Jensen sourced 1.5 inch dome tweeter for the upper midrange and treble, and a 1" Phillips dome super tweeter. The model 7 featured 2 each of the Jensen and Phillips tweeters to increase power handling and volume potential. The speakers had sealed cabinets yet were quite efficient and the bass was very extended. My only complaint was that the whizzer cone on the 7" driver had a tiny bit of whizzer honk.

The foam used on the woofer surrounds was sadly prone to rapid deterioration back in a time when replacing damaged surrounds was to me an unknown art. Due to excessive volume driving from a limited power solid state amp, the Jensen tweeters also burned out as they were crossed over at too low of frequency for such abuse.

I can highly recommend these speakers if anyone finds a pair that just needs a woofer refoam job and the remaining drivers are in good shape. The real walnut veneer was of excellent quality even by standards of that time.

joelongwood
11-15-2007, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the very detailed info on the 5 and 7, stickman. It seems like I'll have to add 2 more to my list. :D

Njord Noatun
11-16-2007, 11:38 PM
Sorry I don't have any pics.........waiting for a new camera
Do yours look like the attachment? There is a current listing over at the Big Board (#280174233054) without a model assignment with these photos - 19" tall. Quite likely the Mini-III.

joelongwood
11-17-2007, 08:03 AM
Do yours look like the attachment? There is a current listing over at the Big Board (#280174233054) without a model assignment with these photos - 19" tall. Quite likely the Mini-III.
Although I haven't taken the grills off to see the drivers, I'm positive those are the same ones I have......Mini III's. They have the same grill cloth and same dimensions. From what I've seen, all Mini IIIs have a serial number that begins with "M."

Snade
11-17-2007, 10:29 AM
Do yours look like the attachment? There is a current listing over at the Big Board (#280174233054) without a model assignment with these photos - 19" tall. Quite likely the Mini-III.

I'm tempted to go after those mini-IIIs, but don't have room for more speakers right now.

I bet they compare very well against a AR 4X or Dynaco A25. What distinguishes the Rectilinear III and the mini is the solid build of the cabinet and that midrange driver. You probably need at least 75 watts per to really make the minis sing, but the midrange is just beautiful with that driver.

If you tap your knuckles on the top of the Rectilinear III, the sound tells you how solid the cabs are made. I assume the mini also has a solid cab.

Cool stuff. Snade

Njord Noatun
11-17-2007, 10:46 AM
I am tempted, too, Snade - $110 and free S&H, and I believe the cabs are pretty refinishable. Too bad about the missing logo, though - and I wonder if he caused any damage to grille frame and cab when he removed that one grille.

The mid and tweeter seem to be same as in my Highboy. Not sure about the woofer, though - 10"?

joelongwood
11-17-2007, 04:05 PM
I am tempted, too, Snade - $110 and free S&H, and I believe the cabs are pretty refinishable. Too bad about the missing logo, though - and I wonder if he caused any damage to grille frame and cab when he removed that one grille.

The mid and tweeter seem to be same as in my Highboy. Not sure about the woofer, though - 10"?

I think the price is a bit high. Mint pairs usually go for around $50 + shipping, which unless the seller is gouging you, is not too steep. I measured the woofer opening (through the grill cloth.....it looks like a real pain to remove without damaging something) and it's 8".

vinyleater
12-06-2007, 01:14 PM
I have a nice pair of Rectilinear III Highboys. I've had them for about 3 months. All drivers are working and none show any visible damage. They sounded great until recently. Now one of the Phillips midrange drivers has developed a "buzz" audible at certain frequencies except at very low volume. For example, the notes of a harp from about the middle register on down bring the accompanying buzz or distortion. I am running a nice Kenwood 7050through these speakers, ratet at about 80wpc. When I adjust the midrange control on the speaker, the buzz gets worse if the midrange is turned up. The control is a little scratchy but it works. I can't think what the cause of this new buzz might be. My wife turned up the volume way too loud one time, but there was no immediate problem after that; the buzz started a couple weeks later. Also, aren't these speakers rated 100wpc? They should be able to handle a lot of power. I'm wondering if the crossover could need to be recapped and if that could be causing it. I'm sure that's never been done on these. If the driver is ailing, that will be a real bummer because it's glued in and Lord knows where I would find a replacement. Any ideas, all you Rectilinear fans? I need some help.

joelongwood
12-06-2007, 01:39 PM
I have a nice pair of Rectilinear III Highboys. I've had them for about 3 months. All drivers are working and none show any visible damage. They sounded great until recently. Now one of the Phillips midrange drivers has developed a "buzz" audible at certain frequencies except at very low volume. For example, the notes of a harp from about the middle register on down bring the accompanying buzz or distortion. I am running a nice Kenwood 7050through these speakers, ratet at about 80wpc. When I adjust the midrange control on the speaker, the buzz gets worse if the midrange is turned up. The control is a little scratchy but it works. I can't think what the cause of this new buzz might be. My wife turned up the volume way too loud one time, but there was no immediate problem after that; the buzz started a couple weeks later. Also, aren't these speakers rated 100wpc? They should be able to handle a lot of power. I'm wondering if the crossover could need to be recapped and if that could be causing it. I'm sure that's never been done on these. If the driver is ailing, that will be a real bummer because it's glued in and Lord knows where I would find a replacement. Any ideas, all you Rectilinear fans? I need some help.
Sounds like it might be a rubbing voice coil. Those Philips mids seem to be the achilles heel of the large Rectilinears, as a few people here have had them blow for whatever reason. In my case, I was playing around with a Yamaha 2010 amp, quickly switching things and turning knobs in an attempt to clear up an intermittent cut-out on one channel. Lo and behold, the mids went silent. I was able to find a pair on eBay (they come up on a pretty regular basis) that I won, and in the meantime I sent both mids out for repair to The Speaker Shop in Lima, Ohio. I believe the cost was about $70 for both, and they work perfectly. The glued in situation is a real headache to deal with. Coupled with the fact that the mids are also sealed from the back in a fiberglass stuffed plastic container (the kind you get in a deli!.....not too high tech), it's a job I wouldn't want to tackle again.....but if I had to I would. I'm very careful now about my listening levels, and any switching that might cause transients to damage them.
Here's the link to The Speaker Shop, if you're interested. They were great to deal with.......give 'em a call. http://www.thespeakershop.com/
Hope this helps. :D

vinyleater
12-06-2007, 02:42 PM
Hey, thanks for the tip about The Speaker Shop. From what you said, the midrange might have been damaged when my wife spun up the volume (which is freakishly unlike her--go figure). How did you get the speakers out of the cabinet? That's my big question at this point. I assume the front panel comes off, first of all. There seems to be no access from the back of the cabinet. Then what do I do? I have no idea how to deal with the glue to get the speaker out. Any help here would be appreciated.

joelongwood
12-06-2007, 03:56 PM
You are correct.........no access from the back. Remove the gazillion screws from the front and the front panel with all speakers attached will come forward. Be careful, the Rectilinear guys didn't leave much extra wire. To access the mid, I pried off the deli container (also glued in....I think Rectilinear made a big deal at the time about a new space age adhesive they were using........ silicone!) and then removed the wires to the mid. Using a utility knife, I carefully (as carefully as possible) cut around the silicone glue (from the front) and pushed (from the back) the mid through. The front panel is not solid wood, it's some kind of pressed board, so it does have a tendency to crumble.....I know mine did. But it was nothing that a lot of silicon couldn't fix when I re-installed the drivers. It's not pretty, but it works. Again, good luck. Those mids will sing again. :D

Njord Noatun
12-06-2007, 05:08 PM
Both my Highboy Philips mids were out, too (one needed rebuild and for the other, one cap on the x-over was busted). I can second everything Joe says, right down to recommending The Speaker Shop for repairs: They charged me about $45 for fixing one and testing both. I have also purchased a spare (non-AlNiCo) pair for emergencies.

After removing the "deli-cup" - no big deal - and de-soldering the wires, I used a super-narrow woodworking chisel (careful not to damage cones!) to remove most of the silicone around the mid on the front of the baffle. Once you have gotten most of it off, the mid should pry off the baffle in combination with pushing from the back. When done, glue everything back together using GE-II Household Silicone.

Nat
12-06-2007, 07:36 PM
Years ago I bought a pair of Lowboys for $2.00 at the end of a church sale. With the hideous plastic fretwork grill, they sounded very muddy, but even with it off, they seemed heavy and slow sounding to me. Its possible I had the IIA (?) model -- I heard that they redesigned them to be bass heavy since the sort of people who buy enormous furnitury speakers with fretwork grills want to be reassured that they got all the bass they paid for.
There were a lot a very good qualities to the speaker, but they didn't cohere for me.

joelongwood
12-06-2007, 08:01 PM
Years ago I bought a pair of Lowboys for $2.00 at the end of a church sale. With the hideous plastic fretwork grill, they sounded very muddy, but even with it off, they seemed heavy and slow sounding to me. Its possible I had the IIA (?) model -- I heard that they redesigned them to be bass heavy since the sort of people who buy enormous furnitury speakers with fretwork grills want to be reassured that they got all the bass they paid for.
There were a lot a very good qualities to the speaker, but they didn't cohere for me.
I don't think they made any changes to the Lowboys, at least none that I'm aware of. The IIIa was a version of the Highboy in a much cheaper cabinet, and was Rectilinear's attempt to recapture the past..........unsuccessfully I might add. I also have a pair of Lowboys, and I agree that, with the grills they sound rather muddy. But with it off, it's a different story. Still not up to the SQ of the Highboys, even though Rectilinear made a big deal in their ads about how the two versions (High and Low) were sonically identical because they used the same drivers and had the exact same cabinet volume. Given enough power (I'm using a Carver Receiver @130 watts per side) they wake up rather nicely. I've actually come to like them quite a bit.
I'm wondering if the mids on the ones you had were somehow defective or just plain silent. The low crossover from the woofer, along with the high crossover to the tweeters means that the mids are doing a lot of the work. Without them operational, the sound would be quite ponderous and slow. Just wondering. :D

Nat
12-07-2007, 09:39 AM
All the drivers worked fine, but your comment about waking up may explain my experience -- I was using them with fairly low powered electronics -- 20-40 watts probably -- and perhaps that just wasn't enough even for low levels.
Certainly the guy who ended up with them loved them.

Njord Noatun
12-07-2007, 10:41 AM
I was using them with fairly low powered electronics -- 20-40 watts probably -- and perhaps that just wasn't enough even for low levels. I know that there are (at least!) two schools of thought on this, and I have heard of people using them successfully with even low-powered tube amps, but it made huge difference to my ears when I increased amplification from 100 wpc to 165 wpc (could also have to do with differences in the "sound" of the amps). I have three ~160 wpc receivers I routinely rotate with the Highboys, and they all sound great :thmbsp: !

yddet12
02-22-2009, 12:11 PM
How exactly does the sound change from low powered amps (25-50 watts/channel) to high powered amps (100 watts/channel and up)? Does it improve the bass? Midrange? Treble? Clarity/soundstage?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for power (watts/channel) for the Rectilinear XI? I think my current receiver (stereo, solid-state) is either 25 or 50 watts per channel, and the Rectilinears sound decent, but a little lacking in the bass (maybe by design?? the problem seems to go away if I turn the bass control on the receiver to +1 or +2) and a little lacking in midrange (again, maybe by design, since it is a 2 way). Would the problems be alleviated with a higher-power receiver?

joelongwood
02-22-2009, 12:52 PM
How exactly does the sound change from low powered amps (25-50 watts/channel) to high powered amps (100 watts/channel and up)? Does it improve the bass? Midrange? Treble? Clarity/soundstage?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for power (watts/channel) for the Rectilinear XI? I think my current receiver (stereo, solid-state) is either 25 or 50 watts per channel, and the Rectilinears sound decent, but a little lacking in the bass (maybe by design?? the problem seems to go away if I turn the bass control on the receiver to +1 or +2) and a little lacking in midrange (again, maybe by design, since it is a 2 way). Would the problems be alleviated with a higher-power receiver?
I have the XI, and find them to be pleasant enough to listen to, but they are definitely not in the same league as the big boys of the Rectilinear line, particularly when it comes to bass reproduction. Being a ported design, they are rather efficient and an increase in amplifier power will not likely yield much of an increase in bass. Your 25-50 watts should be more than sufficient. Remember, though, that each amp/receiver has its own sound, particularly when it comes to the synergy with a particular speaker.
As for your statement that the sound is "lacking in the midrange," does your mid/tweeter have a piece of cloth stapled over it? If this is not there, there will be an increase in the high end output, with a subsequent perception of less midrange detail.
At the time they were made, 1971, the XI were the lowest priced of the entire Rectilinear line. Careful placement of the speakers (on the floor, near a corner) would most likely yield an increase in bass performance. Try it. :D

Nat
02-22-2009, 07:17 PM
Boy this thread is old -- I'd forgotten about those IIs I had. Wish I'd tried them with a bigger amp.
But going through it again -- it might be worth mentioning that Jim Bongiorno's site which is mentioned in an early post, is his personal views, and (how shall I put this?) may not be a completely unbiased description of his compatriots, and also of his contribution to the state of the art. And I mean no denigration of his estimable accomplishments, but he used the work of others both in his speaker designs and in his amps (there is more on this in threads on SWTP and Dan Meyers).
Colorful character, and talented.

EddyR
05-17-2009, 02:34 PM
I have a set of XI also in my workshop. They are powered by a Carver PM900. I know that seems a ridiculous amp for these speakers but I have the amp on a speaker switch so I can test a lot of different speakers. I have them on a shelf 7 feet off the floor and they are a great set of speakers for there small size. Mine also had the cloth over the tweeter but it was falling apart so I removed it. I agree that the plastic grills are ugly.I was going to sell them but after reading about them on this thread I am going to bring them in the house and give them good listen. They have always been in my work shop since there trip home from the GW three years ago.
Ed

klama2006
05-17-2009, 03:18 PM
I got a pair of Rectilinear's, and agree that they sound fantastic. Mine are the III lowboys.

I'n my room, with my gear. They actually outed both a pair of Thiels, and Vandersteen's. My lowboys now sit on my Vandersteen Stands.

Sir.Byrd
06-04-2009, 12:33 PM
I have a pair of XIs that are in good shape, picked them up for $12.99 and now I'm using them at my school with a 30 WPC Philips receiver. They were perhaps the easiest speaker to listen to that I've heard. There was plenty of detail, and the bass was good but not over powering. The cabinets were also VERY solid, no hollow sound when you knock on them.

chard306
10-26-2011, 06:40 PM
I just picked up a pair of XI today at Goodwill will for $4.99 for the pair. Still have the material over the tweeter. The grills are pretty massive. Have not hooked tehm up yet but I could not leave them there for $4.99