In the brand new Music Direct catalogue, I noticed that VPI has reintroduced the idler wheel, in lieu of a belt drive on one of their TTs. $7,700. It doesn't seem to show up anywhere else, although there's some talk about it in other forums.

The idler wheel returns as a high-end product... life is full of ironies, no?

Looks interesting. I think with all of the upgraded Thorens TD-124s on the market, the idler wheel never really left the hifi scene, just wasn't available as a new product.

I'd love to hear one.

http://www.musicdirect.com/shared/images/products/large/VPI_SSM_motor.jpg

http://www.musicdirect.com/shared/images/products/large/vpi_superscoutmaster.jpg

Wow! Thanks for the giant pics!

I couldn't even find a good site.

Here's one of Grumpy's pics from RMAF
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64947&d=1192491558

And here is the idler drive that Teres is using in many of their new turntables.
http://www.teresaudio.com/images/Verus1-sm.jpg

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72076

Seen and heard it briefly. Nice table but break open your piggy banks..

so what are the sonic advantages of the idler wheel?

so what are the sonic advantages of the idler wheel?

Here's the pitch from Teres.
http://www.teresaudio.com/verus-motor.html
....or they could be having a hard time sourcing belts ..... I have two idler tables at home that are waiting for funds to finish restoring. One is pretty close. It will never be as attractive as the VPI or Teres.

That idler Super Scoutmaster with their new reference platter would look mighty nice in my livingroom system.

The Teres drive can be fitted to many other brand tables as an after market mod.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Holst, which idlers are you restoring?

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Holst, which idlers are you restoring?

I have an old QRK with a Sparta arm and a Sparta with (ironically) an AudioTechnica arm (I think it's a 1005II).

I'm still waiting for the wife to apply herself to winning the lottery to get me that SOTA Star/SME 309, VPI Aries and Galibier or, damn, I'll just buy something:D

It's clear that current manufactures dont want to miss-out on the current Idler wheel craze that it causing a few 40+ year old table prices to jump into the stratosphere.

Whether they themselves actually beleive that this is important development or not is hard to say. But they certainly see people forking out some pretty big bucks for some of these prehistoric tables, and they want to get a piece of this recently growing pie. :yes:

Personally, I think that if they were really serious about these idler wheel designs, that they would completely redesign their tabels for it, rather than simply retrofitting a wheel to bump-up against the edge of the platter.

so what are the sonic advantages of the idler wheel?


Other then rumbling like a semi down a dirt road ya got me..

Other then rumbling like a semi down a dirt road ya got me..
Could we be a belt-drive fan, by some chance?

Here's the pitch from Teres.
http://www.teresaudio.com/verus-motor.html
......

They're referring to it not as an idler setup, but as "Direct Coupling", and downplaying the term "idler wheel".

"Verus introduces a simple and effective drive methodology we call Direct Coupling. Direct Coupling utilizes a large diameter pulley, an o-ring and gravity to directly couple the motor to the platter eliminating the degradations introduced by belts and idler wheels."

since I've not seen an idler wheel setup in person, and only limited quality photos, is there any difference here betwixt this "direct coupling" and what an idler wheel is?

The only minor differences I see between their system and other idler wheel designs is in the method of coupling. Typically, you have either an idler wheel that rolls against the inside of a hollow platter or the wheel spins against the underside of the platter. I could certainly see a couple of benefits to the design used by Teres and VPI over more traditional designs. First, the o-ring attached to a large solid wheel would be superior due to the ease of replacement. Idlers wheels were usually made of rubber that would change over time to become worn, harder, or warped, all of which attributed to the rumble box reputation that may of them suffer from. Also, I would think that using the idler on the outside would allow for less surface area contact (also probably reducing rumble) and lastly, the very thin oring would be much easier to acheive consistent contact properties with the platter. The old thick rubber wheels would be much more difficult to make consistent. Plus, think of the aftermarket tweak potential that interchangeable rubber bands would have? :)

since I've not seen an idler wheel setup in person, and only limited quality photos, is there any difference here betwixt this "direct coupling" and what an idler wheel is?

They are coming up with new names for direct drive too.

First, the o-ring attached to a large solid wheel would be superior due to the ease of replacement. Idlers wheels were usually made of rubber that would change over time to become worn, harder, or warped, all of which attributed to the rumble box reputation that may of them suffer from.

I should post a pic of the underside of my Sparta. It's a hefty metal wheel with and O'ring, they were build well into the 80's.. And yes they are very quiet tables.

They are coming up with new names for direct drive too...

Pretty much marketing jargon then. Thanks.:thmbsp:


The only minor differences I see between their system and other idler wheel designs is in the method of coupling. Typically, you have either an idler wheel that rolls against the inside of a hollow platter or the wheel spins against the underside of the platter. I could certainly see a couple of benefits to the design used by Teres and VPI over more traditional designs. First, the o-ring attached to a large solid wheel would be superior due to the ease of replacement. Idlers wheels were usually made of rubber that would change over time to become worn, harder, or warped, all of which attributed to the rumble box reputation that may of them suffer from. Also, I would think that using the idler on the outside would allow for less surface area contact (also probably reducing rumble) and lastly, the very thin oring would be much easier to acheive consistent contact properties with the platter. The old thick rubber wheels would be much more difficult to make consistent. Plus, think of the aftermarket tweak potential that interchangeable rubber bands would have? :)

Much clearer.

Muchas gracias.:thmbsp:

Looks interesting. I think with all of the upgraded Thorens TD-124s on the market, the idler wheel never really left the hifi scene, just wasn't available as a new product.

I'd love to hear one.
Don't forget the classic Swiss made Lenco turntables... most of those were idler drive.