I'm getting REAL close to dipping my toes back into vinyl and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this unit and in particular the ones modded by KAB. In my quest to go completely "retro" with my system (so far a Marantz 2275 and large walnut Advents) the final link to my past will be a turntable, which I thought would be a Thorens, either a 125 or 160 (both of which I owned some 30 years ago) however lately I've been reading a ton of good stuff about maybe one of the most abused (both literally and figuratively!) and despised (in the audiofool world) turntables ever created ,the venerable Technics SL1200 (which I also owned some 30 years ago, sheesh). I wasn't aware until discovering the KAB website that technics has sold over 3 MILLION of these things!!! That averages about 88,000 units per year since it was introduced around 1972 and compared to the rest of the entire analog world simply dwarfs what they have done combined. Now I'll be the first to admit much of this was driven by the DJ industry but it seems that there is starting to be a ground swell of home audio enthusiusts (and pro reviewers) that have embraced this beast as a bonafide giant killer and it's got my interest up to say the least. If anyone has any experience with the 1200 I would appreciate any feedback (good or bad) and in particular with the KAB mods. One last thing, it's funny looking back I remember I had owned the 1200 back in the mid 70's thinking I had a pretty good setup along with my Yamaha CR1020 and Advents when I walked into the first "high end" shop I'd ever been to (the Absolute Sound in SE Detroit) and seeing all these brands I had never heard of (Linn, Dahlquest etc..) and the salesman asks me what my system is and when he hears "a Technics direct drive TT" he says "direct drive!!! are you kidding!!! no self respecting audiophile would be caught dead with a direct drive TT!!! Now I don't remember his exact reasoning but it sounded convincing enough to me and thus began my descent into AUDIOPHILE HELL which is nothing more than a frustrating quest for a sound that doesn't exist (perfection) and a very effective way of going broke that is based on listening to your equipment and NOT your music and by the way I still don't remember the belt drive TT's sounding better than the 1200 but I was cool now in "audiophile terms" but it eventually left me so soured about HIFI that I eventually sold everything and owned nothing from about 1980 to the mid 90s. Having been back at this hobby for 10+ years and come to my senses I've gotten rid of all my digital amps and little 2 way audiophile speakers with no dynamics or bass to speak of I now realize I NEED a turntable cuz I got all my old Steely Dan and Led Zep albums that are just dying to go for a spin! Sorry I got so long winded but I just wanted you to know where I was coming from, thanks!

But really, a used one in good shape with an audiophile quality cartridge, better ATs, Stantons, Denons, etc. will get you on the road for low cost. I got one for $50 and spent a few bucks to have a technician calibrate the arm and mount an AT440MLa to optical specifications. I might look into the KAB mods but I am having too much fun just playing interesting music and letting the stock deck blow my mind.

Peter

I'm getting REAL close to dipping my toes back into vinyl and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this unit and in particular the ones modded by KAB. In my quest to go completely "retro" with my system (so far a Marantz 2275 and large walnut Advents) the final link to my past will be a turntable, which I thought would be a Thorens, either a 125 or 160 (both of which I owned some 30 years ago) however lately I've been reading a ton of good stuff about maybe one of the most abused (both literally and figuratively!) and despised (in the audiofool world) turntables ever created ,the venerable Technics SL1200 (which I also owned some 30 years ago, sheesh). I wasn't aware until discovering the KAB website that technics has sold over 3 MILLION of these things!!! That averages about 88,000 units per year since it was introduced around 1972 and compared to the rest of the entire analog world simply dwarfs what they have done combined. Now I'll be the first to admit much of this was driven by the DJ industry but it seems that there is starting to be a ground swell of home audio enthusiusts (and pro reviewers) that have embraced this beast as a bonafide giant killer and it's got my interest up to say the least. If anyone has any experience with the 1200 I would appreciate any feedback (good or bad) and in particular with the KAB mods. One last thing, it's funny looking back I remember I had owned the 1200 back in the mid 70's thinking I had a pretty good setup along with my Yamaha CR1020 and Advents when I walked into the first "high end" shop I'd ever been to (the Absolute Sound in SE Detroit) and seeing all these brands I had never heard of (Linn, Dahlquest etc..) and the salesman asks me what my system is and when he hears "a Technics direct drive TT" he says "direct drive!!! are you kidding!!! no self respecting audiophile would be caught dead with a direct drive TT!!! Now I don't remember his exact reasoning but it sounded convincing enough to me and thus began my descent into AUDIOPHILE HELL which is nothing more than a frustrating quest for a sound that doesn't exist (perfection) and a very effective way of going broke that is based on listening to your equipment and NOT your music and by the way I still don't remember the belt drive TT's sounding better than the 1200 but I was cool now in "audiophile terms" but it eventually left me so soured about HIFI that I eventually sold everything and owned nothing from about 1980 to the mid 90s. Having been back at this hobby for 10+ years and come to my senses I've gotten rid of all my digital amps and little 2 way audiophile speakers with no dynamics or bass to speak of I now realize I NEED a turntable cuz I got all my old Steely Dan and Led Zep albums that are just dying to go for a spin! Sorry I got so long winded but I just wanted you to know where I was coming from, thanks!

I've got one (Technics SL1200 w/mods) on order, so I'll give you a report when it arrives and it's spinning vinyl. It will be replacing a Bang & Olufsen Beogram TX2 (bought new in 1989) which finally died a couple weeks ago after heavy and constant use.

Why did I chose the SL1200? I obtained a Technics SP-15 free from a radio station about a year ago. I built a big MDF plinth for it and mounted a Rek-O-Kut transcribe tonearm with a Stanton 500VE and an array of 78rpm stylii. Great turntable! Built like a tank and a pure joy to use. So that steered my thinking towards a new SL1200 for LP/45 stereo playback.

I love your definition of "AUDIOPHILE HELL". That's the most accurate description I've ever read.

Listening to my Technics SL-1210 right now, and loving it.

Kevin at KAB once told me - "All the upgrades make an audible difference. The question is 'Can your system resolve the differences?'". If you're listening to modified 1200 through a Marantz 2270, which is no doubt a fine system, I'd question whether the fluid damper and Cardas rewire will be audible, versus listening through some fairly esoteric, price-is-no-object gear.

My 1210 M5G is stock. It already comes prewired with supposedly better quality wiring that the 1200, and the tonearm is more rigid and ostensibly offers better reproduction. I may someday upgrade and add the fluid damper and Isonoe replacement feet, but I'm liking the heck out of the table as is.

Get yourself the 1200 or 1210, choose the cartridge well, aggressively isolate the table from vibration, and I think you'll have a fine table right out of the box.

That said, I'd recommend making sure the box that your 1200 or 1210 come to you in is sent to you from KABUSA. Kevin goes through each table before shipping it out, making sure it is complete and fully functional, and also includes the upgraded platter mat.

Peter I may well go that way if I can find a nice one and cactus I'm anxious to hear what you think about yours and finally Whell I was actually thinking of going exactly the way you went with the stock 1210M5G as I like the minor mods done to that model. I also agree as far as over modding goes and the systems overall capabilities might not being able to resolve the differences (still trying to shake the audiophile/tweaker/upgraditis in me).

It may be useful to query members about the quality of the phono pres in your Marantz receiver before you check out heavily modded 1200s. I really loved the auld Sansui G8000 and it had very good phono stages but it wasn't really until I had the Apt Holman pre up and running that I heard everything with deep resolution and complete clarity. With the Apt #1 phono input tuned for the AT, a well engineered recording just comes alive.

Peter


Peter I may well go that way if I can find a nice one and cactus I'm anxious to hear what you think about yours and finally Whell I was actually thinking of going exactly the way you went with the stock 1210M5G as I like the minor mods done to that model. I also agree as far as over modding goes and the systems overall capabilities might not being able to resolve the differences (still trying to shake the audiophile/tweaker/upgraditis in me).

So LegalAlien, Curious as to what Turntable put you into "audiophile hell"?
Mark

I like mine!

Really, you can't go wrong at the price point regardless if you go whole hog with the mods like I did or just get the basic table (I agree, get it from KAB).

I replaced a MMF-5 with mine and its no contest. And better still, the Technics is FUN to play. I enjoy using it, which I couldn't say for the MMF.

I bought mine with the Outboard power supply, the strobe disabler, fluid damper, and the cardas arm re-wire.

I've used both KAB's Pro S40 MM cartridge and the benz 20cii MC cart. The nice thing about the Super 40 is there's no settings needed.

If you're listening to modified 1200 through a Marantz 2270, which is no doubt a fine system, I'd question whether the fluid damper and Cardas rewire will be audible, versus listening through some fairly esoteric, price-is-no-object gear.

My Marantz 2325, (not EW'd yet but coming), was VERY noticeable with the fluid damper upgrade. It did exactly what KABUSA said it would.

DD TT's will take you where you want to go. The venerable Technics has sold so well because folks know a good value when they see it - regardless of the salesman. There are long standing members here that will quote specifications for DD's that will make a lot of earlier belt drive units unhappy in comparison. There is no reason to doubt that a modern DD will not do very well indeed. I own three DD's and one belt drive. They all do well, but it turns out for me and what I do that DD's are more user friendly and more adaptable :)

Well markd51 it wasn't any particular turntable that did it it's just at that moment I went from a guy who loved music and had pieced together a nice system to someone who started obsessing over equipment. I eventually wound up with a system comprised of a Linn Sondek turntable, an Ampzilla amp and Theobe preamp feeding stacked Dahlquest DQ10's with a Tandberg reel to reel thrown in for good measure. Now these were all very fine products for the time but $7000-$8000 tied up in a stereo when I was probably making 20k a year doesn't seem real rational, no the problem came back when I got back in the hobby in the mid 90's and saw this obsession with resolution that was often times at the expense of musicality. What got me back on track was earlier this year I gave in to my nostalgic whim and bought my Marantz 2275, I couldn't believe how smooth and clean and Musical this thing sounded and it is so damn pretty to look at to boot! Then came the Advents and I was stunned again so now I've got to give vinyl a spin (pun intended) so I'll probably go with the Technics primarily because its well made it sounds good and it also doesn't hurt that most of the mainstream audio media hates it.

L-Alien,
Sometimes it is tough getting a synergistic match for a particular taste, no matter how good, or expensive the components.

I've owned plenty of Marantz, both in the 70's heyday (4400) plus went on a collecting binge in the mid-late 90's and acquired, and sold another total of 8, making the grand total 9 Marantz recievers. I really only miss one, the absolute flawless Blackface 2285B, and matching flawless 5025 Cassette Deck.

I'm sure all of us wish we could do it all over again in some way, I do with many components, and as they say, hindsight always has 20/20 vision. My early foray into Quad was a somewhat mixed bag, with mucho cash outlay that could've been spent on better "stereo" components instead.

There's certainly not much dislike of vintage Marantz, nor vintage Advent Speakers. I strongly doubt the 1200, with proper set up, and great Cartridge will be a bottleneck in your system. Again, the key will be synergy to a captivating sound you will be happy with.

There's many nice belt driven Tables on the market, and Linn was no exception. Same holds true today with very good Cartridges of every flavor. I looked, and listened to Linn back in the mid 90's as well, and had to take a giant step back, when I seen the table that appealed to me, and I wanted to take home cost only a measly $8400! (Pun indended here)

Was very nice, and IMO was overpriced as well.

I eventually settled with VPI, still use this table, and it has gone through quite a number of upgrade paths with good improvement each time.

Will be interesting to hear of your choice of Cartridge? Mark

Can't wait to read the reviews CactusCowboy....this might be the best ~$1000 turntable to get for easy plug and play hi-end sound! Would certainly save a lot of scrounging and headaches buying used tables online!

My Marantz 2325, (not EW'd yet but coming), was VERY noticeable with the fluid damper upgrade. It did exactly what KABUSA said it would.

That's interesting. I'll have to accelerate my timetable to get that fluid damper upgrade. :yes:

Along with the KAB mods there is also the replacement arm board from Origin Live. This will enable the use of a Rega or SME arm which will make a significant difference.:music:

Marantz boasted at the time that many of their pre-amps and receivers used tantalum capacitors in the phono stage.

I'd consider having those in the signal path replaced with film caps. Also, the phono stage has a local power reserve capacitor on the incoming power line(s) that is electrolytic. Refreshing this with a new, maybe larger one and/or bypassing with a film might help too.

That's interesting. I'll have to accelerate my timetable to get that fluid damper upgrade. :yes:

Yea, it worked for me. But may not for you. Might depend on rest of system, or alignment of planets. Just like some posters say upgrade tonearm makes a huge difference, while I've heard/read it really doesn't.

Along with the KAB mods there is also the replacement arm board from Origin Live. This will enable the use of a Rega or SME arm which will make a significant difference.:music:

Well Groovemaster, this seems to be a bit of a sensitive subject, and I've grown weary of trying to convice those that this is more than likely so.

I will state, and admit to those that the Technics Arm, particularly for what it costs, is probably a downright steal. Re-wired with Cardas, I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that this mod alone is a significant improvement with this particular Arm, and while maybe some may not note substantial improvements, it could perhaps be due to other downstream components, or what Cartridge they use.

The Technics Arm is NOT a broken Arm, or a BAD Arm, but I will admit there is of course better. And one will surely pay a dear price for admittance.

If I would buy a Technics tomorrow, IMO, this would be the very first important upgrade I'd consider, the Cardas Re-Wire. The re-wire of a Tonearm can be tricky, being no expert of tear-down-rebuild of Tonearms, I'd no doubt probably have the boys at KAB do this. They probably do them everyday, and know all the ins, and outs-tricks.

I'm a definite proponent of the fact that the better the wiring, be it Tonearm internal, Tonearm Cabling to Pre-Amp, and even going as far as the quality of headshell Leads, and Clips will all impart a worthy improvement to any tonearm, and ultimately, the sound that the Cartridge sends no matter it's cost.

Such Cables like the Hovland MusicGroove 2, and PAD Venustas aren't liked just becuase they have good marketing, and are two good examples of how worthy improvements can be made to existing analog equipment.

The other limiting factor of course is cost. The realistic fact that some may question the worth-value, and of course "need" of the sonic the gain of a $1,000 Tonearm on a $500 Table, or a $800-$1400 Phono Cable.
Mark

Yes, the questions do come to mind?