View Full Version : Audio-Technica Ellitptical's V's Shibata's


Joey1127
01-08-2008, 01:52 PM
Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone shares my experience here...

I have an AT13E cartridge and both the ATS13 NUDE 0.2 x 0.7 and ATS14 NUDE Shibata styli. After listening for a while with each styli, I have found that the NUDE 0.2 x 0.7 styli just sounds better. It's much warmer and smoother sounding. The Shibata is rather bright and clinical sounding...not a bad thing, just doesn't seem right to my ears..

Anyone ells out there have AT carts like the AT13, 14, 15, or 20 that they prefer the Elliptical stylus over the Shibata stylus?

Joey1127

Holst
01-08-2008, 02:03 PM
I've owned many AudioTechnicas over the years, but have never listened to any of their Ellitptical's. The Shibata's have always been what attracted me to the brand and I have always prefered the sound of a radically cut diamond.

However, you are not the first (or the 50th) person I heard say they liked it the other way around.

onepixel
01-08-2008, 02:16 PM
I had a Audio Technics AT15Sa (Shibata style) cart on my Sansui SR-838 and also have found that it is on the brighter side on Quad LPs and that's with a Quad Marantz amp. Some recording it sounds fine. Could be that it brings out certain qualities of certain pressings. I've heard a couple of other ATs but can't remember what they were like.

BrocLuno
01-08-2008, 02:57 PM
I think the AT shibata's lead to the current fine line or line contact cartridges? The first of which was the original 440ML (not a) which was also known for brightness and maybe a bit of harshness.

Hard to say whether it's the cartridge itself or the cut that is extracting additional hi-frequency info. Maybe the info was there all along, and we just could not hear it? In any case, the MLa version is toned down a bit on the top end so they are aware of situation. I own an MLa and it's pretty nice. Never could find an S that I thought was affordable for used vinyl? I run a AT13e on my Dual. Nice cart too :)

sleddogman
01-08-2008, 03:04 PM
No doubt there's better, but the audio-technica AT440MLa works great and sounds great in my Mitsubishi LT-30 linear. 0.12 Nude square, dual magnets, and A-T bills it as:

Audio-Technica's moving magnet cartridge design is patented and delivers "PRACTICALLY IDENTICAL TO THE CUTTER HEAD" performance. Instead of using a single, large magnet like other cartridge manufacturers, Audio-Technica's patented Vector-Aligned™ Dual Magnet design positions two tiny magnets 90 degrees apart. These magnets are positioned directly in line with the two groove walls and each magnet incorporates a separate, independent coil structure. This low magnet mass and geometry allow exact translation of record groove motion into matching electrical signals, ensuring excellent channel separation, extended frequency response, and superior tracking.

Whatever, it works for me... :yes:

chillwolf
01-08-2008, 03:16 PM
I have a Compass ATX5E cart (made by AT) that has the .02X.07 nude stylus on it. It sounds better that any Grado, Shure, or Ortofon carts I have. Unfortunately being NOS when I got it, the cantilever has collapsed so I will have to replace the stylus and get it back in service.
Can't compare it to a Shibata stylus as I don't have any carts with that on it.
It really brings out the details in the highs and mids without being harsh or overly bright. Plenty of bass brought out by it too. If you ever run across one of these carts don't hesitate to pick it up, you won't be disapointed!

Joey1127
01-08-2008, 03:58 PM
No doubt there's better, but the audio-technica AT440MLa works great and sounds great in my Mitsubishi LT-30 linear. 0.12 Nude square, dual magnets, and A-T bills it as:

Audio-Technica's moving magnet cartridge design is patented and delivers "PRACTICALLY IDENTICAL TO THE CUTTER HEAD" performance. Instead of using a single, large magnet like other cartridge manufacturers, Audio-Technica's patented Vector-Aligned™ Dual Magnet design positions two tiny magnets 90 degrees apart. These magnets are positioned directly in line with the two groove walls and each magnet incorporates a separate, independent coil structure. This low magnet mass and geometry allow exact translation of record groove motion into matching electrical signals, ensuring excellent channel separation, extended frequency response, and superior tracking.

Whatever, it works for me... :yes:


The AT440MLa is a 30+ year younger beast than the AT13, 14, 15 and 20's that I am talking about here...mainly it is the stylus and not the cart in question that creates the brightness... The Micro-Line is GREAT on the 440, but the one in question is the NUDE Shibata and NUDE Elliptical 0.2 x 0.7

Joey1127
01-08-2008, 04:01 PM
No doubt there's better, but the audio-technica AT440MLa works great and sounds great in my Mitsubishi LT-30 linear. 0.12 Nude square, dual magnets, and A-T bills it as:

Audio-Technica's moving magnet cartridge design is patented and delivers "PRACTICALLY IDENTICAL TO THE CUTTER HEAD" performance. Instead of using a single, large magnet like other cartridge manufacturers, Audio-Technica's patented Vector-Aligned™ Dual Magnet design positions two tiny magnets 90 degrees apart. These magnets are positioned directly in line with the two groove walls and each magnet incorporates a separate, independent coil structure. This low magnet mass and geometry allow exact translation of record groove motion into matching electrical signals, ensuring excellent channel separation, extended frequency response, and superior tracking.

Whatever, it works for me... :yes:

Yes, All AT MM's are Dual MM designs. That was their claim to fame back in the day for the era of the AT13, 14, 15, and 20 (1970's) that I am talking about... The Shibata I belive makes the difference.

BrocLuno
01-08-2008, 05:00 PM
I was not trying to hi-jack the thread into a 440 rant. I was trying to say that their earlier work with shibata's was what lead up to where we are today. I still think that is so. I seems to me the Fine Line IS the modern shibata?

I have looked for an AT "S" or "SA" for a while just to play with and still can't find one in good shape for under $50. So if you don't already have one, you may not get to play in this space?

Added - OBTW - I just looked it up and the original 440ML had a nude square shank stylus.

redhotvalves
01-09-2008, 02:01 AM
i've had shibata and ellipitical at in the past.

right now i have an at-13e (genuine stylus brand new) and an at-15xe (genuine stylus brand new),both are ellipitical and are just getting broke in.

of course i prefer the at 15xe here, its just better all around and compares very favorably to my stanton 681eee (stereohederon which is like shibata stylus).

i dont however have a shibata to compare with my at13e and at15xe at the moment but in the past i found the shibata to be brighter but detailed in the a-t line.

Stanton681EEES
01-09-2008, 06:07 AM
Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone shares my experience here...

I have an AT13E cartridge and both the ATS13 NUDE 0.2 x 0.7 and ATS14 NUDE Shibata styli. After listening for a while with each styli, I have found that the NUDE 0.2 x 0.7 styli just sounds better. It's much warmer and smoother sounding. The Shibata is rather bright and clinical sounding...not a bad thing, just doesn't seem right to my ears..

Anyone ells out there have AT carts like the AT13, 14, 15, or 20 that they prefer the Elliptical stylus over the Shibata stylus?

Joey1127

Joey that is my thoughts as well. Plus the Shibata's to my ears just seems to bring out more surface noise as well, and no matter how much adjusting I do to the VTA .
I will also add I like the AT125LC better with the ATN120E and ATN130E stylus as well.

Joey1127
01-09-2008, 10:42 AM
I was not trying to hi-jack the thread into a 440 rant. I was trying to say that their earlier work with shibata's was what lead up to where we are today. I still think that is so. I seems to me the Fine Line IS the modern shibata?

I have looked for an AT "S" or "SA" for a while just to play with and still can't find one in good shape for under $50. So if you don't already have one, you may not get to play in this space?

Added - OBTW - I just looked it up and the original 440ML had a nude square shank stylus.

Well, the 440 still usses a NUDE Square Shank but that is just the diamond Shank itself, not the stylus profile. The Micro-Line profile used on the 440 is cut on the tip of a NUDE Square Shank V's being bonded to a titanium rod. My ATS13 is a NUDE Square Shank w/ 0.2 x 0.7 stylus and the ATS14 is a NUDE Square Shank w/ Shibata stylus.

Holst
01-09-2008, 12:12 PM
Joey that is my thoughts as well. Plus the Shibata's to my ears just seems to bring out more surface noise as well, and no matter how much adjusting I do to the VTA .
I will also add I like the AT125LC better with the ATN120E and ATN130E stylus as well.

It's not actually surface noise, it's the stuff in the bottom of the groove your hearing. Shibata's ride low. Time for a RCM.

Stanton681EEES
01-09-2008, 12:44 PM
It's not actually surface noise, it's the stuff in the bottom of the groove your hearing. Shibata's ride low. Time for a RCM.

Hummm so hand washing isn't getting it all
Interesting.

Holst
01-09-2008, 12:46 PM
Ya need to suck it out.

Stanton681EEES
01-09-2008, 04:12 PM
Ya need to suck it out.

I wouldn't touch that line with a ten foot poll lol:D

Quest
01-24-2008, 04:56 PM
The standard elliptical is better sounding and is better for my wallet. AT Shibata styluses are too much of a good thing. They were originally designed for extracting high frequency for 4-channel and will work with stereo but are not ideal. The combination of Shibata, high frequency coils, and the high compliance cantilever makes the cartridge lean to a disturbingly bright sound. Look at how many love the 440MLa yet nod their head about the one-sided treble. The lower and cheaper AT120E/T with the normal sized elliptical and designed for 2-channel sounds much more balanced. Reaching lower gets better sound. It is not a popular idea but it is true.

I can compare with a fair assortment of AT cartridges. I own the AT13Ea, AT15ESa, AT440MLa, 3003, 6006, AT3482P, AT71ELC, TR485U and, my preference by far, the lowly AT120E. I believe the 120E has, strangely enough, the old-world Shure sound with deep bass, a strong midrange and balanced highs.

scubaguy10
01-26-2008, 12:07 PM
I mentioned this on another thread, but I did get to do a direct comparison between an AT elliptical stylus and an LP Gear Shibata on an AT3003 cartridge (also known as an AT311, I believe). The Shabata stylus, on clean records, was noticeably better sounding, with cleaner, but not harsh high end and lower surface noise. Based upon my experience, I won't have anything but Shibata or line contact styli from now on.

With that said, it also seems to be true that Shibatas pick up more dirt in the groove, and are clearly more critical on cartridge alignment. But I like mine