Hi folks - I'm a newbie. Like so many, looking to get back into playing the albums I accrued in the 60s and 70s. Here's my situation: I used to have decent quality equipment ("thrifty audiophile" level) but got rid of most of that stuff when I moved 15 years ago. Still have ADS 400s, NAD integrated amp and tuner, Adcom power amp (one channel out) and AR XA. The turntable is the problem. I bought a new cartridge (AT) and wired it in, changed cables etc. But I fear the wiring inside the arm is bad, and the pivot bearings don't feel good, etc. Long and short is, this TT ain't going to work as is, and probably the highest and best use for it is as a basis for a project TT with a good replacement arm.
I don't want to get that deeply into it at this point - busy restoring vintage motorcycles and don't need another expensive, time-draining hobby! So I figure I'll buy a decent vintage table and try to find a loving home for the AR. I've done a bit of homework, and know there are plenty of options available in a vintage table compatible with the grade of my electronics. Recognizing that I'm not going to try and squeeze the last, expensive 10% of quality out of my system, is my AR (needing an arm transplant, lacking dust cover) worth trading for a decent functioning belt-drive table?
Sorry for the long posting; I'm long-winded! Thanks for any advice.
RoMoMoTo

Ya know,

The AR-XA is a darn fine table. Why not send it off to one of the many AR specialists that restore AR's? I mean, you already have it... Dave who runs VINYL NIRVANA is well respected for his work on the classic AR's. You can contact him at http://www.vinylnirvana.com/

Personaly, I regret getting rid of my AR-XB so I would say before you jump off the AR, as you don't want to spend a lot, just have the arm rewired and the interconnects Updated. Also, I would suggest a SHURE cart on that table personaly...

Hope this will help.

Joey

I'll second taking a trip by http://vinylnirvana.com before ditching the AR. :yes: They are not difficult to work on, very simple in design, and all the info you need to get it working is readily available. :thmbsp:

Thanks to Joey1127 and Ozmoid for your perspectives. Since posting my conundrum I've learned of an AR tonearm available for pretty low dollars.
I was under the impression that it's next to impossible to rewire these arms, but if I'm wrong, I'm not afraid to tackle it myself. And if I buy the arm that's available and it doesn't need wiring, all the better.
I'll have a look at the website you recommend and see what I can find out.
Thanks!
RoMoMoTo

You just got yourself "another expensive, time-draining hobby!" That AR is worth the time and expense.

Welcome to AK.

Ken

Kevin,

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
I don't have the time or money.
Okay, now I'm going to tear into the AR. Too cold to work on the Moto Guzzi anyway...

RoMoMoTo

Your other option is a vintage Technics TT (SL 1200, 1600, 1800) w/ a new cart. Still, a new AR arm may cost just as much or less and would arguably be a "better" TT. There's a whole cottage industry dedicated to AR arms since, as you have discovered, they are the weakest link.

You owe it to yourself to get back into vinyl.

But I fear the wiring inside the arm is bad, and the pivot bearings don't feel good, etc. Long and short is, this TT ain't going to work as is, and probably the highest and best use for it is as a basis for a project TT with a good replacement arm.


Have you done a continuity check of the arm?

The most common failure point for arm wire is usually the the loop between the back of the arm and the plinth. The hardest part of rewiring an old AR arm is getting the plastic bit out of the headshell end of the arm without damaging the plastic or the arm tube. Once you do that, the rest is fairly easy.

The old AR arm is as simple as you could expect a tonearm to be. Nothing remotely exotic in it. Arm pivots that "don't feel good" are most commonly the result of dirt and other gunk that has collected in the bearings. The solution is amazingly low-tech: clean the working parts with lighter fluid, relubricate the parts that were originally lubricated, adjust per the instructions in the manual.

Modding the table to accept another arm is not terribly difficult if you have metalworking tools and skills. If not, you can very quickly turn a base worth about $30-$50 on eBay into a box of spare parts. The good news is, if you muck it up, you can probably get more for the motor and its pulley separately than you could for the entire base.

If you really want a different arm, don't have the skills to open up the subchassis and plinth and are just looking for an easy path to listening to your vinyl and not a new hobby, you might be better off with a new table. Depending on what mood eBayers are in, an XA in the condition you describe will probably fetch somewhere between $50 and $75.

Your other option is a vintage Technics TT (SL 1200, 1600, 1800) w/ a new cart. Still, a new AR arm may cost just as much or less and would arguably be a "better" TT. There's a whole cottage industry dedicated to AR arms since, as you have discovered, they are the weakest link.

You owe it to yourself to get back into vinyl.

KeninDC (not Kevin...) yeah, I need to get back to my roots. Just dusting off some old stuff: Jeff Beck, Buffalo Springfield...

I may pick up a vintage Technics or other table while mulling over what to do with the AR. Found a Pioneer PL-1150 for $40, and while I don't know how it stacks up against a good AR, I bet it will play my music until I do something else.

RoMoMoTo

Have you done a continuity check of the arm?

Yes. In fact, I found a broken wire where they go over the pivot.

The most common failure point for arm wire is usually the the loop between the back of the arm and the plinth. The hardest part of rewiring an old AR arm is getting the plastic bit out of the headshell end of the arm without damaging the plastic or the arm tube. Once you do that, the rest is fairly easy.

Got the plastic part out already, this afternoon, after finding the broken wire.

The old AR arm is as simple as you could expect a tonearm to be. Nothing remotely exotic in it. Arm pivots that "don't feel good" are most commonly the result of dirt and other gunk that has collected in the bearings. The solution is amazingly low-tech: clean the working parts with lighter fluid, relubricate the parts that were originally lubricated, adjust per the instructions in the manual.

I'd like to see a manual. Do you know if I can download one, or at least an exploded diagram? It looks like there once was some kind of black rubber damper at the top of the pivot axel, under the nylon washer.
Not sure what should be lubed, and so on. It doesn't drop freely; setting tracking weight is impossible.

Modding the table to accept another arm is not terribly difficult if you have metalworking tools and skills. If not, you can very quickly turn a base worth about $30-$50 on eBay into a box of spare parts. The good news is, if you muck it up, you can probably get more for the motor and its pulley separately than you could for the entire base.

I'm a bit ham-fisted for such fine work. My gross motor skills are fine, but my fine motor skills are gross...

If you really want a different arm, don't have the skills to open up the subchassis and plinth and are just looking for an easy path to listening to your vinyl and not a new hobby, you might be better off with a new table. Depending on what mood eBayers are in, an XA in the condition you describe will probably fetch somewhere between $50 and $75.

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful reply. My guess is that I'll end up springing for another table and tucking away the AR with the old Rek-O-Kut rather than deciding to sell it. And since I know where I can buy an AR arm for a good price, I'll probably drop it in and see...

RoMoMoTo

Have you done a continuity check of the arm?

Yes. In fact, I found a broken wire where they go over the pivot.

The most common failure point for arm wire is usually the the loop between the back of the arm and the plinth. The hardest part of rewiring an old AR arm is getting the plastic bit out of the headshell end of the arm without damaging the plastic or the arm tube. Once you do that, the rest is fairly easy.

Got the plastic part out already, this afternoon, after finding the broken wire.

The old AR arm is as simple as you could expect a tonearm to be. Nothing remotely exotic in it. Arm pivots that "don't feel good" are most commonly the result of dirt and other gunk that has collected in the bearings. The solution is amazingly low-tech: clean the working parts with lighter fluid, relubricate the parts that were originally lubricated, adjust per the instructions in the manual.

I'd like to see a manual. Do you know if I can download one, or at least an exploded diagram? It looks like there once was some kind of black rubber damper at the top of the pivot axel, under the nylon washer.
Not sure what should be lubed, and so on. It doesn't drop freely; setting tracking weight is impossible.

Modding the table to accept another arm is not terribly difficult if you have metalworking tools and skills. If not, you can very quickly turn a base worth about $30-$50 on eBay into a box of spare parts. The good news is, if you muck it up, you can probably get more for the motor and its pulley separately than you could for the entire base.

I'm a bit ham-fisted for such fine work. My gross motor skills are fine, but my fine motor skills are gross...

If you really want a different arm, don't have the skills to open up the subchassis and plinth and are just looking for an easy path to listening to your vinyl and not a new hobby, you might be better off with a new table. Depending on what mood eBayers are in, an XA in the condition you describe will probably fetch somewhere between $50 and $75.

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful reply. My guess is that I'll end up springing for another table and tucking away the AR with the old Rek-O-Kut rather than deciding to sell it. And since I know where I can buy an AR arm for a good price, I'll probably drop it in and see...

RoMoMoTo

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful reply. My guess is that I'll end up springing for another table and tucking away the AR with the old Rek-O-Kut rather than deciding to sell it. And since I know where I can buy an AR arm for a good price, I'll probably drop it in and see...


For downloadable AR info the best places are
http://www.vinylnirvana.com
http://www.vinylengine.com
Vinyl Nirvana has part of an XA service manual scanned.

Early model AR tables had a damper in the arm to slow descent if the arm was dropped. It was supposed to release once the stylus was in the groove, but sometimes didn't. If the arm feels funny but plays ok, your damping may still be engaged. You can still set tracking on a damped arm, you just have to wait longer for it to balance on the scale. There are instructions for disabling the damping, and I think just about all of us who bought damped tables have long ago done that.

For downloadable AR info the best places are
http://www.vinylnirvana.com
http://www.vinylengine.com
Vinyl Nirvana has part of an XA service manual scanned.

Early model AR tables had a damper in the arm to slow descent if the arm was dropped. It was supposed to release once the stylus was in the groove, but sometimes didn't. If the arm feels funny but plays ok, your damping may still be engaged. You can still set tracking on a damped arm, you just have to wait longer for it to balance on the scale. There are instructions for disabling the damping, and I think just about all of us who bought damped tables have long ago done that.

Okay, that explains the nylon washer and the flat machined in the pivot barrel, I bet... Looks like there was some kind of black rubber bumper under the nylon washer that has since disintigrated.

Thanks, I'll scour the sites you recommend for downloadable info. You've been a big help.

RoMoMoTo