I have found a bunch of my old LP's and want to connect a turntable to listen to them again. I still have my dad's old Dual 1019 that hasn't been used in about 25 years and it was working when it was put up those years ago. I wanted to ask everyone do you think it would sound as good or close to the same sound quality as a new turntable that was about $500 for the TT alone, assuming I had it refurbished?

$500 is about the max I would want to spend for a new TT, outside of a phono stage which I will have to buy in either case. I wanted to ask your opinions as to what you think would be the best way to go since I have not followed TT technology.

Thanks

Get the Dual down and check the stylus, If it isn't worn out or damaged set up the tracking force and such and give it a try. I have a Dual 1009 that was my dad's, and his dad's before that, and it works very nicely and sounds very good. Just watch out for the auto return for the arm, mine doesn't quite make it all the way to the arm holder and before I could react the stylus met the deck of the TT and bent the cantilever. Otherwise good luck. :thmbsp:

I have found a bunch of my old LP's and want to connect a turntable to listen to them again. I still have my dad's old Dual 1019 that hasn't been used in about 25 years and it was working when it was put up those years ago. I wanted to ask everyone do you think it would sound as good or close to the same sound quality as a new turntable that was about $500 for the TT alone, assuming I had it refurbished?

$500 is about the max I would want to spend for a new TT, outside of a phono stage which I will have to buy in either case. I wanted to ask your opinions as to what you think would be the best way to go since I have not followed TT technology.

Thanks

Easy answer is:
No!

Brand new, $500 will buy you a nice Pro-Ject 5, Music Hall mmf-5, or perhaps best yet, a Rega P2. Any or all of these will beat the tar out of the old Dual. Almost forgot, there is always the Technics 1200.
TT technology HAS moved on a lot in the past 30 years. Any of the tables I listed will be a good long term keeper.

Welcome to Audiokarma!

I'd try to get that Dual going. Not familiar with Duals, but if it's a belt drive it's likely the belt has rotted off years ago. But that's an easy fix. If it's direct drive chances are good it'll work just fine.

Just checked the bluebook and realized that your TT might be seeing it's 40th birthday this year.
If you want to restore it for some fun, then have at it. But it will never do justice to your vinyl.
Figure a new cartridge too, as all the rubber bits are dried out too. At very least, a new stylus.

The 10xx series Duals were idler wheel drive. Most folks think that they are not the best but there is a fringe out there that think some idler wheel tables are the best thing ever. Most if not all sub $500 new turntables are nothing to write home about. The old Dual properly cleaned, lubed and set up (if it's bearing aren't worn) with a new cartridge out will sound surprisingly good. If you want to plunk your $500 down on a used turntable you can buy something really nice that will put the Dual to shame.

The 10xx series Duals were idler wheel drive. Most folks think that they are not the best but there is a fringe out there that think some idler wheel tables are the best thing ever. Most if not all sub $500 new turntables are nothing to write home about. The old Dual properly cleaned, lubed and set up (if it's bearing aren't worn) with a new cartridge out will sound surprisingly good. If you want to plunk your $500 down on a used turntable you can buy something really nice that will put the Dual to shame.

For those of use lacking money and that already have a Dual we are quite content with them. :yes:

Brand new, $500 will buy you a nice Pro-Ject 5, Music Hall mmf-5, or perhaps best yet, a Rega P2. Any or all of these will beat the tar out of the old Dual. Almost forgot, there is always the Technics 1200.

The RM-5 or MMF-5 at needledoctor.com are going for $700 new. I've seen used MMF-5 on audiogon go for a little more than $500.
The Technics SL-1200 can be had for less than $500 and that's a very nice table for the money. KAB sells good models and also upgrades. Take a look.
That said although I would prefer the SL-1200, the Dual 1019 IF refurb'd isn't bad. If you are diy and can fix up the Dual yourself, you may want to give it a try but if you'd need to pay someone to do it, I'd spring for an SL-1200 series TT. If you do try the Dual get at least a new stylus. You can ruin your records quickly if you play them with a bad one.
Keep in mind that a phono amp can determine the sound quality just about as much as the table.

The 10xx series Duals were idler wheel drive. Most folks think that they are not the best but there is a fringe out there that think some idler wheel tables are the best thing ever. Most if not all sub $500 new turntables are nothing to write home about. The old Dual properly cleaned, lubed and set up (if it's bearing aren't worn) with a new cartridge out will sound surprisingly good. If you want to plunk your $500 down on a used turntable you can buy something really nice that will put the Dual to shame.

While I agree there are some real nice idler tables out there, the Lenco's being one example, these Duals were pretty low end tables.
Just wondering what "sub-$500" tables you have listened to? The Technics, at $400 commonly, is a hell of a table. There are a lot of great old tables out there, but just cause they are old doesn't mean they are all good. A lot of crap was turned out in the old days too.
On the other side, a lot of new tables are of incredible quality. Sure some of the real cheapies are nothing to write home about, but once you get to the $500 level, they become very nice.
On top of which, there is something nice to be said to have a TT with a warranty, and easy parts availability.

The RM-5 or MMF-5 at needledoctor.com are going for $700 new. I've seen used MMF-5 on audiogon go for a little more than $500.
The Technics SL-1200 can be had for less than $500 and that's a very nice table for the money. KAB sells good models and also upgrades. Take a look.
That said although I would prefer the SL-1200, the Dual 1019 IF refurb'd isn't bad. If you are diy and can fix up the Dual yourself, you may want to give it a try but if you'd need to pay someone to do it, I'd spring for an SL-1200 series TT. If you do try the Dual get at least a new stylus. You can ruin your records quickly if you play them with a bad one.
Keep in mind that a phono amp can determine the sound quality just about as much as the table.

Thanks Joyce.
I guess old age kicking in. The MMF-5 was $500 not too long ago.... :)

Thanks Joyce.
I guess old age kicking in. The MMF-5 was $500 not too long ago.... :)

Not that long ago at all....






we won't discuss age :nono:

Thanks for the welcome and all of the responses guys. I can go over $500 if teh price warrants the increase. I am bad about setting a budget for my electronocs /audio equipment and then blowing it all to pieces once I begin to investigate the gear. That said, I don't plan on building a huge collection of vinyl. I just want to hear some of my old records I used to listen to as a kid that can't be found on CD. i may get into it more later however.

I don't mind buying used and I usually choose equipment at price points that have reached the point of diminishing returns (the price where a lot more money provides only marginal, almost undetectable increases in performance), if any of that makes sense.

I'm going to buy a newer TT and maybe play around with the dual. I chose $500 because it seemed nobody recommnded anything at all below that price point. I don't mind going higher but not going to the point of overkill given what i will use it for.

I'm sorry for asking and I promise I am searching on my own as well but send me out some recomendations for new and what to look for used and at what price. Phono stages too. Thanks for the help

Specman,
Glad you are liking it here.
If I can recommend, try to find someone local and give a listen to a Technics 1200 and a Rega P2. Both of these have been in production for 30+ years now and are the best examples of each breed - Direct Drive for the Technics, Belt drive for the Rega. From there you can determine what type of sound you like, and then start looking at options.
Remember, the most important thing is that you like what you are hearing.

Specman,
Glad you are liking it here.
If I can recommend, try to find someone local and give a listen to a Technics 1200 and a Rega P2. Both of these have been in production for 30+ years now and are the best examples of each breed - Direct Drive for the Technics, Belt drive for the Rega. From there you can determine what type of sound you like, and then start looking at options.
Remember, the most important thing is that you like what you are hearing.

If you can find a local dealer, listening for yourself is always the best answer. :yes:

Pull the Dual down and get it serviced. They are very nice TTs. They have a low mass arm (for a production TT) and they can sound very good. They look and feel a little "light", but they were/are engineered more like an airplane than a machine tool. Like all airplanes - light flies best:)

They have a pretty good S/N ratio - prbably in the 65 range. Getting a number above that costs. The cartridge may be old and have the stylus supension dried out so it may be a bit flat sounding (cut off highs and lows), but a new cart will bring that right back. I'd get that TT lubed up and running right before I spent bigger $$ on a new one? You can always replace it later and move it out to the shop if need be?

How many records do you have? What's the ROI for your collection? If you have under 100 - the Dual will be fine. If you have 500 or so and many are pristine, then maybe you need another TT? In other words how far are you into this arena and how much do you plan to grow this area of the hobby in your setting?

I have to agree with Broc. If you just have a handful of LPs, play around with the Dual. Part of the fun for me, when I started collecting vinyl several years ago, was making the best out of what I had, which was a Dual 506, Baby Advents and a Marantz 1060. Yeah it sounded like ass at first but with a cartridge change and some minor repair/maintenance, I had it sounding pretty darn good. Now I can appreciate more, the changes made to my current systems by changing TTs or carts ,or tubes, etc.... So I say play with what you got for a little bit longer, you may be surprised by what you can pull out of those grooves with the Dual in proper working order.

Also If I was to spend say $500 or more on a new TT, or better yet purchase what some would consider "high end" TT, I would make sure I have a record cleaning machine first. Otherwise your still going to hear dirt and funk and boogers, just at higher fidelity(in theory).

The vexing conundrum which looms large over vinyl replay,is that the 'how' of using a turntable is as important as the choice of 'which' turntable to buy.
Put simply,the performance of a really good turntable system(a contact mechanical device),can easily be compromised by being placed on/in unsympathetic surfaces/rooms.
Conversely,a competent turntable system's performance can be optimised by due attention being shown to the mounting surface and the placement in the room.
Proof of this can be seen in the extreme efforts undertaken by the idler drive camp with regard to plinth design,and the efforts exerted in the stand department.
You see similar efforts taken by the spring suspended sub-chassis crew,because the effect of good turntable mounting is just as readily apparent to users of those turntables.
Choosing the turntable,is only the first half of getting the performance it's capable of.The other half is the implementation of the turntable system.
Factor that into your cost calculations also. :scratch2: :yes:

The 1019 is screwed down to an older stereo cabinet with an old Kenwood receiver. The whole thing looks retro so i think I will hook it all back up and try to get the Dual running.

i think you are thinking along teh same lines as me. I have about 150 records, of which many I won't listen to but some I would love to hear again because they never made it to CD. None are pristine. This was my Dad's TT and I used to listen to everything I could on it as a kid. A lot of the PL's were his and about half were mine. I don't know what ROI is. I think I will take your advice and try to get the Dual going unless it costs as much as a newer one would. Like you said, if it ever becomes inadequate, I can spring for a new one then. I don;t see myself aggresively building an LP collection, just playing around with what i already own.

Where are the best places to buy cartridges from? I'm new at this.
I guess I will need a phono stage too and I've spotted a fewused ones that look decent in the $50 - $60 range. Or I suppose I could just leave it hooked to the old Kenwood.


Pull the Dual down and get it serviced. They are very nice TTs. They have a low mass arm (for a production TT) and they can sound very good. They look and feel a little "light", but they were/are engineered more like an airplane than a machine tool. Like all airplanes - light flies best:)

They have a pretty good S/N ratio - prbably in the 65 range. Getting a number above that costs. The cartridge may be old and have the stylus supension dried out so it may be a bit flat sounding (cut off highs and lows), but a new cart will bring that right back. I'd get that TT lubed up and running right before I spent bigger $$ on a new one? You can always replace it later and move it out to the shop if need be?

How many records do you have? What's the ROI for your collection? If you have under 100 - the Dual will be fine. If you have 500 or so and many are pristine, then maybe you need another TT? In other words how far are you into this arena and how much do you plan to grow this area of the hobby in your setting?

For a cartridge, I would see what is already on the Dual. If it is something good buy a new stylus and be done with it, if it isn't buy a new one.

Yup, test run what you have (clean all carefully and a drop of lube as needed for the Dual). Then see what/where you're at? You can try Garage-a-Records or the NeedleDoctor to look at prices and availabliity.

The 1019 was not a low-end turntable at all. It was, for its day, a rather high-end turntable and far superior to most of the other automatics available. DUAL was one of the first manufacturers of automatic turntables to pay attention to the quality of the tonearm and drive system. Granted, a 1019 is 40 years old but it will still perform on a high level if it is mechanically sound and properly lubricated. You mght get better performance out of a newer turntable but whether the upgrade is worth the $ is something none of us can answer for you.

Personally......I have a beautiful 1019 that I use for casual playing. For more serious listening I have two newer tables which I prefer. The main reason is the fact that there is no VTA adjustment on the 1019. It is set for record three of a stack so it is rather high for a single record and that is a detriment to the sound quality of many cartridges. The only way VTA can be adjusted is to shim the cartridge.

I have a Dual 1226 that is used daily in my bedroom system, and I like it very much. Your Dual is older, but a pretty high end Dual of that time. Look at this web site for specs :http://www.dual-reference.com/tables/1019.htm

The 1019 has a very heavy platter, and with a decent cartridge will perform quite well. If it hasn't been used in a long time it will surely need to be lubed and serviced to work properly. These things are fully automatic, and there a lot more parts than a manual DD table, for example. My 1226 had been serviced when I got it, and after an adjustment here and there, and new interconnects, works perfectly.

The weak point in your system is likely to be the records themselves. With some careful cleaning you should be able to get your system sounding much better than you would imagine.

My vote would be to purchase a Lenco L-75 or L-78 ($200-$300) and a Rega 300 tonearm ($200-$300). Flip the Lenco tonearm for an Audio-Technica 440Mla or a Denon DL-103 cartridge. Sink the whole shebang into a solid mass plinth of sandwiched Baltic ply and particle/board and you’ll never look back.

And if you go in another direction ('cause that Dual's no slacker), re-read Theophile’s posting on placement/isolation/coupling environment. Wise words those are.

- Mario

I have a 1019 in storage that came out of a console, and it's next on my rebuild list. I dig it; there's just something cool about it, and I'll be building a custom plinth for it in some exotic species. It's built like a tank and works fine.

The Dual 1019 is an excellent table and well worth getting up to speed. Do a search, I have modified mine and posted them here in the forms. I have mine on the same system as an AR ES-1. The sound differece is minimal. Designed to use a Shure cartridge. Put a M97xe on it, look up mine and others modifications and then you can start hunting vinyl.

The Dual 1019 is an excellent table and well worth getting up to speed. Do a search, I have modified mine and posted them here in the forms. I have mine on the same system as an AR ES-1. The sound differece is minimal. Designed to use a Shure cartridge. Put a M97xe on it, look up mine and others modifications and then you can start hunting vinyl.

I have to agree.

If you are just getting into vinyl with a few old LPs, a tuneup and new cart in the Dual will certainly be all you need to get your feet wet. The if you like what you hear, you can spend the $500 on an upgrade later.

I just sold a 1019 a few weeks back and was pretty much impressed with it's build and performance. As others have stated, it was once TOTL, so although it may be 40 years old, it was the real deal back then. :yes:

Good Luck!

I've read a bit here and there of people praising that model. If you live in a city with technicians who can really service and update the unit and seat an appropriate and modern cartridge, you may consider restoring it. If the drive mechanism is sound and other essential technology in good condition, you may find for under $150 for labor, small parts and cartridge you have a very satisfying source to listen to. And it's kinda fun bringing a museum piece like this back to robust working life - as is our duty as Curators of the Ancient Audio !

Peter

I have found a bunch of my old LP's and want to connect a turntable to listen to them again. I still have my dad's old Dual 1019 that hasn't been used in about 25 years and it was working when it was put up those years ago. I wanted to ask everyone do you think it would sound as good or close to the same sound quality as a new turntable that was about $500 for the TT alone, assuming I had it refurbished?

$500 is about the max I would want to spend for a new TT, outside of a phono stage which I will have to buy in either case. I wanted to ask your opinions as to what you think would be the best way to go since I have not followed TT technology.

Thanks

Contact these guys if you want have the Dual repaired...
http://www.fixmydual.com/
They are experts on Duals and can surely restore it to it's former glory.

If you want something new and can go a little above your $500 budget, I'd recommend a modified Technics SL-1200MKII from KABUSA. He has various modifications available for the turntable, depending on what you need, including a 78rpm option and fluid damping for the tonearm. Some audiophile types turn their noses up at the Technics but it built like a tank and a very solid performer, especially with the KAB mods.

Here are some lengthy articles about KAB and the Technics in general...
http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Content/vinyl01.html
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1093010514&read&3&4&

technics 1200 or rega p3 :thmbsp:

Just be forewarned...even if you do have just a handful of albums you want to play, getting the Dual down and running may inflict you with the sickness many of us have. And even if you spend $100 getting the ol' boy going again, you can buy a LOT of music for the other $400 in your budget if you shop carefully.
Post us some pics of that old spinner if'n you get a chance.

Contact these guys if you want have the Dual repaired...
http://www.fixmydual.com/
They are experts on Duals and can surely restore it to it's former glory.

I too have to sing the praises of Bill and the great work he does at fixmydual.com. I bought a 1264 in pretty good condition a few years back, and it was really starting to act its age right about when the new Rega P3-24 started getting good press. I auditioned the P3 several times, and liked it very much, but thought that, before I spent $1100 on a new table, I would send the 1264 out to Bill and see what a thorough service would do.

Wel, its back, and I set it up last night, and suffice it so say that Rega has lost a potential sale. It sounds so surprisingly good that I stayed up way too late last night pulling out old records to listen to. Bill's packing was great, his price was insane (I honestly don't know how he makes a profit at that price), and he even installed some replacement interconnects that I sent along. The table will stay in my system until one of us conks out for good. I know Bill is an AK member, so that's another reason to do business with him. This is your first and last stop, IMHO, if you have an old Dual that needs new life.

I've had a lot of turntables, some of them excellent, some not so great, and the post suggesting that how and where a turntable is used is at least as important as how good it is. But the 1019 has a very good chance of pleasing you immensely. It was a first rate table in its time, and in some ways its time has returned. The reason it was superceded (other than routine model changes) was first, that people wanted to use higher compliance cartridges, so Dual went to a lower mass arm, and then people wanted belt drives which we all knew were 'better'. But the tide has turned with high compliance cartridges, and there is a healthy sized group of vinyl fans who feel that idler drives have a tighter grip on the platter and so have a firmer and tauter bass than belt and direct drives.
If you are handy you can refurbish the thing yourself, if not, it can probably be done for much less than your budget, plop it in a stout plinth, and, if you are worried about tracking angle, get a couple of 78s and use them as a platter mat, and have fun.

Just be forewarned...even if you do have just a handful of albums you want to play, getting the Dual down and running may inflict you with the sickness many of us have. And even if you spend $100 getting the ol' boy going again, you can buy a LOT of music for the other $400 in your budget if you shop carefully.
Post us some pics of that old spinner if'n you get a chance.

Very true! And you can always upgrade later if you find the limits of the Dual. Then, you can be running the 1019 while you keep an eye out for some kind of really cool high end vintage TT (no doubt for less than a new high end?)

I found it worth spending a lot of time reading up on various LP cleaning techniques, liquids, etc. Really clean records make quite a difference. Likewise keeping the stylus clean. It'll also help to preserve your records.

Michael

I've owned a number of Duals over the years and they are good sounding units. I did find that they required maintenance due to the changing mechanism. My latest Dual is the CS 505-1, but I also own a direct drive manual, Technics SL-2000, and I plan on replacing it with a Technics SL-1200MK2. The SL-2000 is running fine, I just really like the SL-1200MK2. It will last you forever, and you can get one for just under $500. I'm using the Grado Black cartridge on the SL-2000 and it sounds great.

Good luck!