Teac MOTOR problem (A-6010)

[vinyldavid]

I would have put this in the other thread, but this is a problem with the electric motor, which a lot of people here know about.

here's the problem: When I have it so it is supposed to be going, the motor emits a LOUD hum and vibrates like crazy, and I can tell that it is trying to do SOMETHING.

Here's how the motor is assembled:
There is a sleeve that rotates around the entire thing, and is inside of a metal ring with felt inside of that ring, and the motor sleeve rotates inside that.
The sleeve is connected to the motor shaft (I THINK that that's what it is) with screws. When i have the sleeve of, and engage the motor, nothing happnes, so this shaft might not be supposed to be powered.

I cannot find 4 good AA's right now, otherwise I would have some pics. I will try to find some ASAP.

Sorry for not being perfectly clear, but I have no idea what I am doing when it comes to electric motors.

[GasMan]

I would have put this in the other thread, but this is a problem with the electric motor, which a lot of people here know about.

here's the problem: When I have it so it is supposed to be going, the motor emits a LOUD hum and vibrates like crazy, and I can tell that it is trying to do SOMETHING.

Here's how the motor is assembled:
There is a sleeve that rotates around the entire thing, and is inside of a metal ring with felt inside of that ring, and the motor sleeve rotates inside that.
The sleeve is connected to the motor shaft (I THINK that that's what it is) with screws. When i have the sleeve of, and engage the motor, nothing happnes, so this shaft might not be supposed to be powered.

I cannot find 4 good AA's right now, otherwise I would have some pics. I will try to find some ASAP.

Sorry for not being perfectly clear, but I have no idea what I am doing when it comes to electric motors.
The takeup/rewind motors are "outer rotor" induction type. Consider the grey "sleeve" the same as any electric motor...inside out. Does the motor turn freely with no power applied and the brake band disengaged? If not, I'd say the motor bearings are or have frozen due to lack of oil. If it does turn freely, on or both of the run capacitors near the motor are bad. My guess is that the caps are shot.

[vinyldavid]

The takeup/rewind motors are "outer rotor" induction type. Consider the grey "sleeve" the same as any electric motor...inside out. Does the motor turn freely with no power applied and the brake band disengaged? If not, I'd say the motor bearings are or have frozen due to lack of oil. If it does turn freely, on or both of the run capacitors near the motor are bad. My guess is that the caps are shot.

it turns freely with no power applied, so it must be the caps.....will get on testing those now.

[dr*audio]

You can't test them in circuit, you'll have to remove them, but as long as you're doing that you might as well replace them, or you can try swapping the left and right caps. Also if you do replace them, do both.

[vinyldavid]

You can't test them in circuit, you'll have to remove them, but as long as you're doing that you might as well replace them, or you can try swapping the left and right caps. Also if you do replace them, do both.

I have absolutrly no idea how to do this......


BUT


I now have everything put back together, and I threaded a reel, and pressed play. The left reel motor makes the horrible grinding noise, like something's NOT RIGHT inside of the motor. Sound is wonderful, but that buzz is insanely loud...
It's GOTTA be something inside the motor....

[jblmar]

The oiling felt surrounding the motor bearing is most likely gone due to heat generated by the motor. You need to remove the motor and take it apart to inspect the bearing. Over time the oil fuses with the bearing causing a 'ring' to form. This may be the source of vibration.
Hum may be be another issue.

I would try repairing the motor before scraping it. They are fairly easy to work on.

Ron

[vinyldavid]

Stupid me! I didn't put all 3 screws in when I put the motor sleeve back in! That made it off-center, and buzz/hum. NOW, before I mounted the reel table, I set it to forward play and put my ear up to it. VERY low hum. So I thought that all was OK. The motor now does nothing. No tension provided. BUT I know that there is something in there that is working.....

What could cause this? When I supply tension myself (finger on reel) everything works and sounds fine in forward. In reverse, nothing happens. NADA (with the left reel motor). Any ideas?

[Fred Longworth]

Ohm out the two windings to make sure they're intact and equal. Then check your phasing cap. These are failing quite often these days.

Fred

[vinyldavid]

Ohm out the two windings to make sure they're intact and equal. Then check your phasing cap. These are failing quite often these days.

Fred

How do I do that? This is my first R2R repair.....or really repair of anything.

[vinyldavid]

Anyone know how to Ohm out windings and check phase caps? I have no ide how to.

[vinyldavid]

This is getting frustrating.....I have to provide tension myself, and I would really llike to listen to these 3.75 tapes, as one of them is a radio play of Star War's the Emperor Strikes back.......

[vinyldavid]

Well, I called Teac, and left a message with their tech department, and I have no idea what will happen now.....

[dr*audio]

Calm down, step away from the machine and take a deep breath.
Better? Ok, now, if you can solder you can fix this. Look at the 2 reel motors. You should see 2 cylindrical cans mounted between the 2 reel motors. These are the capacitors and they are connected to the motors with wires. Follow the wires to make sure they are the right capacitors. Now, mark the caps with a sharpy marker so you know which wires went where. Or make a drawing, if you don't want to mark on the deck. Note if the caps have a + and - on them (they shouldn't) and where the wires go.
Now desolder the wires to both caps and connect the wires back to the opposite caps. Now if the left reel turns but the right one doesn't, the left cap is bad. Replace both caps if this is the case.

[vinyldavid]

Calm down, step away from the machine and take a deep breath.
Better? Ok, now, if you can solder you can fix this. Look at the 2 reel motors. You should see 2 cylindrical cans mounted between the 2 reel motors. These are the capacitors and they are connected to the motors with wires. Follow the wires to make sure they are the right capacitors. Now, mark the caps with a sharpy marker so you know which wires went where. Or make a drawing, if you don't want to mark on the deck. Note if the caps have a + and - on them (they shouldn't) and where the wires go.
Now desolder the wires to both caps and connect the wires back to the opposite caps. Now if the left reel turns but the right one doesn't, the left cap is bad. Replace both caps if this is the case.

Any idea where to source parts? I have not done that yet, but I have been looking at the transport.

The cap is a can, and has a LOT more wires soldered to it than the other identical one.......

the specs are 1uf, 3uf, M. P. Cap 250 WV .AC 1968 TOWA

2 of these are in there. wires run from the motor to them.

There is a 3, a 1, and a C (common?) on the terminals.......

[Vintage TX]

David, didn't the problem start with the broken reel-table ?
I would replace the motor first, not the run-cap.:no:

[vinyldavid]

David, didn't the problem start with the broken reel-table ?
I would replace the motor first, not the run-cap.:no:

got that broken reel table fixed....I guess......should I swap the plastic screws with the metal ones and see what happens?

*EDIT* Did that. No change. Where could I source a motor, and how in the world would I go about replacing it? I can make neither heads nor tails of this thing.

[Vintage TX]

But the actual motor can be damaged because the reel-table got broken off.

[Vintage TX]

You "edit" while I was typing:D

[vinyldavid]

You "edit" while I was typing:D

I have been known to do weird things :D

[Vintage TX]

Does the motor work OK without hum on "regular" play direction David ?

[vinyldavid]

Does the motor work OK without hum on "regular" play direction David ?

The motor does NOT work. Whatsoever. Spins freely when turned by hand, so no resistance there.

[Vintage TX]

What happens when you press rewind with tape loaded, does the motor turn, no movement at all or just "hum" ?

[vinyldavid]

What happens when you press rewind with tape loaded, does the motor turn, no movement at all or just "hum" ?

No movement at all. That 'hum' I discovered to be coming from the other motor, and it is normal, from what else I have heard coming out of r2r's. You cannot hear it until you put your ear up to the deck. So this motor's silent and dead.

[Vintage TX]

Was reading your earlier post just now=
"I now have everything put back together, and I threaded a reel, and pressed play. The left reel motor makes the horrible grinding noise, like something's NOT RIGHT inside of the motor. Sound is wonderful, but that buzz is insanely loud...
It's GOTTA be something inside the motor...."

Still the same or ?

[vinyldavid]

Was reading your earlier post just now=
"I now have everything put back together, and I threaded a reel, and pressed play. The left reel motor makes the horrible grinding noise, like something's NOT RIGHT inside of the motor. Sound is wonderful, but that buzz is insanely loud...
It's GOTTA be something inside the motor...."

Still the same or ?

NOPE! All silence now. I think that that was because I didn't have the motor sleeve thingy on the outside on correctly.

[Vintage TX]

OK, do me a favor, unplug the deck from the power-outlet and take the rear panel off, check on the defect motor what parts number it has ( sticker ) or any number located on the motor.
I have a few different motors laying here:scratch2:

[vinyldavid]

OK, do me a favor, unplug the deck from the power-outlet and take the rear panel off, check on the defect motor what parts number it has ( sticker ) or any number located on the motor.
I have a few different motors laying here:scratch2:

Here's all the info on it:

TEAC 60V 60HZ
15/13 watts 3 u symbol thingie f (I think)
Made in Japan

That's ALL that's on the motor.

[Vintage TX]

Great, that will help, I have a feeling it's the same reel-motors as 4010 S, but will check in the shop tomorrow for you.

I'll be back:thmbsp:

[vinyldavid]

Great, that will help, I have a feeling it's the same reel-motors as 4010 S, but will check in the shop tomorrow for you.

I'll be back:thmbsp:

Thank You! I got no idea how to replace them, or even get the old one out....I can handle the soldering fine.

[Vintage TX]

Not a biggie, 4 wires and a couple of screws, you can do it:thmbsp:

[vinyldavid]

Not a biggie, 4 wires and a couple of screws, you can do it:thmbsp:

Hmmmm......looks a LOT more complicated to get the motor out, but OK! :thmbsp:

[Vintage TX]

Haven't found all the motors here yet, but found other stuff I didn't know I had:D

[Vintage TX]

Did you skip school today ?:scratch2:

[vinyldavid]

Did you skip school today ?:scratch2:

Not skippin'. Pulled a muscle REAL bad last night and can hardly walk....no way I am carryin' around my 40+pound backpack now.:tears:

[vinyldavid]

Haven't found all the motors here yet, but found other stuff I didn't know I had:D

I often do that! :banana:

[Vintage TX]

Sorry to hear that David, hope you recover soon.
I found a oldie, let me take a few pictures:yes:

[vinyldavid]

Sorry to hear that David, hope you recover soon.
I found a oldie, let me take a few pictures:yes:

Thanks!

[Vintage TX]

Found the deck I was looking for and both motors + reel-tables is working, but you need to check behind the reel-table and how the motor is attached to the base David.:scratch2:
This a 4010 S so if we can get the motors in you can forget about those rubber-holders in the future as these have same lockdown as your 3340 model.

Compare your deck and please take some pictures, OK:thmbsp:

Left reel-motor:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/VintageTX/Teacmotor/DSCF0016.jpg

Reel-table:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/VintageTX/Teacmotor/DSCF0017.jpg

Take the reel-table off and see if this are the same as yours:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/VintageTX/Teacmotor/DSCF0018.jpg

Let me know what you find:scratch2:

[Vintage TX]

David not online today ?:dunno:

[vinyldavid]

David not online today ?:dunno:

Yep, I'm here! Got home late.

Found the deck I was looking for and both motors + reel-tables is working, but you need to check behind the reel-table and how the motor is attached to the base David.:scratch2:
This a 4010 S so if we can get the motors in you can forget about those rubber-holders in the future as these have same lockdown as your 3340 model.

Compare your deck and please take some pictures, OK:thmbsp:

Left reel-motor:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/VintageTX/Teacmotor/DSCF0016.jpg

Reel-table:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/VintageTX/Teacmotor/DSCF0017.jpg

Take the reel-table off and see if this are the same as yours:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/VintageTX/Teacmotor/DSCF0018.jpg

Let me know what you find:scratch2:

DEFINITELY NOT! Not even close! Nothing like that. Motor looks REALLY different.

[Vintage TX]

How does the motor look ?
Not the same mounting screws either ?
:scratch2:

[vinyldavid]

How does the motor look ?
Not the same mounting screws either ?
:scratch2:

getting camera.....

[vinyldavid]

reel table:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000732.jpg

motor:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000734.jpg

Motor 2
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000735.jpg

Relays:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000736.jpg

back:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000737.jpg

reel mounting 1:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000738.jpg

reel mounting 2:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000739.jpg

[Vintage TX]

Thanks for the pictures.
I remember now how tight that deck is inside, not a easy task for you taking the motors out...
Crap...I don't think this will work without major surgery, even if you find the correct motor, the whole rear upper panel need to come off.

[vinyldavid]

Thanks for the pictures.
I remember now how tight that deck is inside, not a easy task for you taking the motors out...
Crap...I don't think this will work without major surgery, even if you find the correct motor, the whole rear upper panel need to come off.

That's what I was afraid of...

[Vintage TX]

Set it aside and search for a motor, when the day comes we can figure it with pictures and instructions.
I went to that auction site and there are two decks and one has the left reel-table replaced in the past.. those plastic screws was not a smart invention.
Sorry this didn't work out David:sigh:

[vinyldavid]

Set it aside and search for a motor, when the day comes we can figure it with pictures and instructions.
I went to that auction site and there are two decks and one has the left reel-table replaced in the past.. those plastic screws was not a smart invention.
Sorry this didn't work out David:sigh:

Not a problem!!!! I have made contact with a former Teac tech from the Chicago repair house, and he has sent me the schematics, and is walking me through everything! AND he has motors!

[Vintage TX]

Great, must be Mr Sam P you are talking about:D

[vinyldavid]

Great, must be Mr Sam P you are talking about:D

Yep. That's him! :thmbsp: Great guy! He should come over to AK.

[vinyldavid]

Well, I got the new band for the variable resistor, and soldered the wire to it, and put it onto the machine.


Same position as the opposing one on the other RESISTOR. (sorry for mistype)

Now, the motor jives a little jump and then does nothing whenever I engage a function.

Any ideas?

CRAP. I mean variable resistor!

[dr*audio]

Sounds like a bad starting cap to me.

[goldear]

Sounds like a bad starting cap to me.
I agree. His motor run cap is almost certainly bad.

[vinyldavid]

I agree. His motor run cap is almost certainly bad.

AND I measured voltage across the motors. Working one: about 80v, NON working one: NEAR 200! :yikes:

[russ1965]

Hey David,

How's the repair on 6010 coming.

RJS

[vinyldavid]

Hey David,

How's the repair on 6010 coming.

RJS

Dead in the water....I will try to look at it tonight again, and I have been told to make field coil measurements on the motor, and I have no idea how to do that.

I am thinkin that it might be BOTH the motor AND the starting cap. :tears:

Anyone able to tell me how to take those measurements?

[vinyldavid]

bumpitty bump.

[goldear]

bumpitty bump.
To test the cap, you need a capacitance meter. Do you have a capacitance feature on your multimeter? If so, then you need to disconnect the capacitor, and see if it the value printed on the sides agrees pretty closely with what you are measuring.

Also, you can take the motor out of circuit too, and compare the winding resistance with the motor that is working. If the winding resistance differs substantially, then your motor may be bad.

[dr*audio]

What he said.:thmbsp:

[vinyldavid]

Well.....I now know that the motor is shorted.....what do I do from here?

[vinyldavid]

anybody?

[dr*audio]

Can you remove the mount for the reel table from the motor, then take a picture of the motor? It may be possible to use another motor to replace it (but you would have to replace both motors so they match. Failing that you will have to wait for a parts unit, or part this one out and use the money to pay for a working deck.

[vinyldavid]

Can you remove the mount for the reel table from the motor, then take a picture of the motor? It may be possible to use another motor to replace it (but you would have to replace both motors so they match. Failing that you will have to wait for a parts unit, or part this one out and use the money to pay for a working deck.

Hmmmm.....I already got the reel table off, and took pics, so this might be what you re looking for...

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000738.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000739.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000734.jpg

[dr*audio]

Actually, I just had a brainstorm. You can get the motor rebuilt. It is not expensive. Look in the Yellow Pages for motor rebuilding. They can rewind it, and replace the bearings.

[vinyldavid]

Actually, I just had a brainstorm. You can get the motor rebuilt. It is not expensive. Look in the Yellow Pages for motor rebuilding. They can rewind it, and replace the bearings.

I never thought of that! Thanks much! I will do that.

[dr*audio]

David, if you can't get it rebuilt, this place has the left motor for $65.
http://www.oaktreeent.com/Teac-Tascam_Stereo_Parts_Unit.htm
Scroll down and you'll see a A6010 they are parting out.

[vinyldavid]

David, if you can't get it rebuilt, this place has the left motor for $65.
http://www.oaktreeent.com/Teac-Tascam_Stereo_Parts_Unit.htm
Scroll down and you'll see a A6010GSL they are parting out.

Talking with Sam, we are thinking that it is the motor run cap....now I just gotta get downstairs for a few hours and test all of the stuff.....

Thanks for the link! It will prolly come in handy for whatever I need.

[vinyldavid]

I just measured the ohms of the left motor and they are 175 or so.... I guess that it IS the motor run cap.....time to track one down...

Anyone concour?

[dr*audio]

Yes, sounds like the cap is bad.

[vinyldavid]

I think that I might try an electronic store that I know of for the caps, if Sam P does not come thru for me.....

[vinyldavid]

Would it be possible to wire a 1uf cap and a 3 uf cap off the same lead if I canot find the proper can cap?

The max V is 250V.

[dr*audio]

Yes, that will work. I think you can use a mylar or polyester cap, I have seen it done, but on turntable motors.

[vinyldavid]

Yes, that will work. I think you can use a mylar or polyester cap, I have seen it done, but on turntable motors.

GOOD!

If I cannot get the real thing, I'll go that route.

[vinyldavid]

I got some pics of the motor run cap. This is the bad one:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000793.jpg

This is the good one:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/IM000791.jpg

Time to start trackin parts. Oaktreevintage does not have them from their parts unit.

[dr*audio]

What is the value stamped on the cap? This place has 4uF motor caps:
http://www.electronicsurplus.com/commerce/catalog/srhkeyword.cz;jsessionid=EDE8AA6B3BB02B0FE1F2C6BEB D84B30E

Also McMaster - Carr has motor capacitors:
http://www.mcmaster.com/

[vinyldavid]

might FINALLY be getting this back online.....someone might be buying me the correct motor capacitor from the internet. :banana::banana::banana: :yippy:

I cannot wait to hear the staar wars tapes that I have at 3 3/4 and many other fun recordings. :music:

[vinyldavid]

and the saga is almost OVER! :yippy:

Motor cap came today.

Now, for one question:

it looks nothing like the one that was stock in the teac. There are 2 tap type thingies. One with 4 posts and one with 2...

What's what?

Pic:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/vinyldavid/Photo_052208_001.jpg

[vinyldavid]

Gonna dig into it tomorrow night, because I know that if I do it tonight, nothing else will get done....


Gonna go grill nao.

[dr*audio]

I think that all the tabs that are on the same plastic piece all go to that terminal. In other words you have 2 terminals with multiple tabs for each so you can connect more than one wire to each terminal. You can verify that with an ohm meter, you should read 0 Ohms between all the tabs on the same terminal. Make a drawing of what wires connect to each terminal of the old cap and connect the new one the same way. The cap has no polarity, so it doesn't matter which terminal the wires connect to, but the wires that connect together must all go to the same terminal.

[vinyldavid]

I think that all the tabs that are on the same plastic piece all go to that terminal. In other words you have 2 terminals with multiple tabs for each so you can connect more than one wire to each terminal. You can verify that with an ohm meter, you should read 0 Ohms between all the tabs on the same terminal. Make a drawing of what wires connect to each terminal of the old cap and connect the new one the same way. The cap has no polarity, so it doesn't matter which terminal the wires connect to, but the wires that connect together must all go to the same terminal.

Thank you! :thmbsp:

I thought that caps had polarity....the old one has a C and 3ohm and a 1 ohm tap....

But OK.

I'll report back tomorrow with what I find....

[dr*audio]

The original cap had 2 sections and a common terminal. If all the lugs on each terminal of the new one connect together, it won't work.

[vinyldavid]

The original cap had 2 sections and a common terminal. If all the lugs on each terminal of the new one connect together, it won't work.

I understand. My real question was:

I assumed that all of the lugs went to the same part of the cap. my question was which end of the cp is which (or did it matter).

Thanks, tho. :yes:

[dr*audio]

Are there any markings or writing on the new cap?

[vinyldavid]

Are there any markings or writing on the new cap?

Nothin relating to polarity.....just 3uf 250V and the company name and part number....

[dr*audio]

The original cap had 2 sections; one was 1uF, the other was 3uF. You now have a 3uF cap and you just need a 1uF cap to complete the job. This should work just fine:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=PF4105-ND
One terminal of each cap will be the common. Connect those together and connect to those the wire that went to the common terminal on the old cap. Connect the wire that went to the 1uF terminal to the remaining lead on the new 1uF cap, connect the wire that went to the 3uF terminal to the remaining terminal on the new 3uF cap.