I have had this turntable for about a month and have set it up and listened to it with the Denon 103 MC cart that is on it and while it sounds pretty good, I think it picks up too much noise/dirt etc (when compared to my cheap very old Garrard TT) and will probably wind up selling it. Plain and simple, I want to get another cartridge that has replacement styli available and doesn't require a step up or MC enabled receiver. It is also a bit worn and in the future would need a retip which I also do not want to be bothered with.

I have seen the praise of the AT440ml and since it is a linear stylus I think it would be great for any new albums I purchase as well as older ones since it will not ride so low in the grooves and pick up extraneous noise. I know that certain carts are good for certain types of arms so I must mention that it has the stock Kenwood tonearm.

I am looking for other suggestions of cart that I can use (preferably contact linear) that are MM and under $150 :music:

I really like the AT-440MLa, but I'm a little puzzled by your post in regards to your saying that the Denon picks up too much dirt and noise. I think that that might be symptomatic of other things -- not the least of which is just plain dirty records, but including VTA, tracking force, alignment, etc.

The AT-440MLa is a great cart, but it's not going to hide the issues that I just mentioned. If anything, it may make them more glaring if not addressed. It's a wonderful cart, but not forgiving as far as setup.

Regarding your old Garrard, I've found that often a larger profile, conical stylus will hide some of the details that are annoying you about the Denon. It's one of the reasons broadcast carts were designed with thumb-sized conical stylii, tracking at 4 grams.

So be *really* certain that you are getting everything you can out of that Denon before throwing in the towel, or you're just going to be 100 dollars poorer and still frustrated.

I do think that the AT will sound wonderful on your table if all these issues have been addressed, should you go that route.

It is also a bit worn and in the future would need a retip which I also do not want to be bothered with.



It's possible that this is the problem, and if it is, you shouldn't play records with this cartridge anymore. I don't know this for a fact, but I've read that once you get to the point where a stylus is so worn out that you actually hear noise/distortion, you're definitely damaging your vinyl.

I have had this turntable for about a month and have set it up and listened to it with the Denon 103 MC cart that is on it and while it sounds pretty good, I think it picks up too much noise/dirt etc (when compared to my cheap very old Garrard TT) and will probably wind up selling it. Plain and simple, I want to get another cartridge that has replacement styli available and doesn't require a step up or MC enabled receiver. It is also a bit worn and in the future would need a retip which I also do not want to be bothered with.

I have seen the praise of the AT440ml and since it is a linear stylus I think it would be great for any new albums I purchase as well as older ones since it will not ride so low in the grooves and pick up extraneous noise. I know that certain carts are good for certain types of arms so I must mention that it has the stock Kenwood tonearm.

I am looking for other suggestions of cart that I can use (preferably contact linear) that are MM and under $150 :music:

That's a very solid table you've got there. I would consider getting the best cart you can afford for it. I have the KD-750 and I really think it sounds well with a Benz Micro Silver ($350 MSRP), so don't box yourself into a corner thinking that $150 is the most you should spend on a cart.

Now, if that's all you are can afford, thats another question all together. Also, have you considered maybe stepping up to a HOMC?

Wouldn't a HOMC cartridge be considered a step down from a LOMC by most people? Don't get me wrong, the only MC cartridges I've had are HOMC, and they are fantastic. If you're willing and able to spend the money one thing I'd recommend is the Dynavector 10X5 ($380), which is a HOMC cart. and handles surface noise pretty well in my experience. Overall I've found the 10X5 to be a great cartridge, particularly in the areas of imaging and detail (in that price range).

Get the AT 440MLa and an RB250 arm. Set you back 350.0o. Here's mine.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e352/dmagalhaes/KD-600.jpg

First, if you are hearing too much noise with this TT you really need to look at cleaning your vinyl or how you are cleaning it. Clean vinyl is absolutely essential.

Second the Denon DL103 is a decent cartridge. Since you've been playing it, I have to assume that you already have a phono amp/step-ups (whichever) that can handle LOMC output. You can get an economical retip from soundsmith.

http://www.sound-smith.com/retip/ $150

or buy a new one from e-bay in days for $158. I like the AT440MLa but think the DL103 could better it if it's in good shape, right TA and you have decent amplification for it.

gotta love them big KD's! :thmbsp:

Actually the LINE CONTACT or Hyper... or whatever each MFG calls their linear contact design is such that they ride lower in the groove to get below the old wear patterns and to get the most sidewall exposure possible with that lower riding contact patch so they can generate the most detail. I own a 440MLa and agree it's a wonderful cartridge, but I can tell you from first hand experience, it hates dirt in the bottom of the groove. You have to have a deep cleaning regimen, before you listen or all you'll hear is clicks and pops. Records that are deep cleaned (even if scratched) will still sound nice. If the scratches are surface stuff from sliding in and out of the jackets, etc. - you won't even hear them with the 440.

As to your Denon cart - I'd sure be looking at dirt on the stylus tip, and clean records before I went any further. Get a 10x loupe at the discount tool emporium near you and look at stylus carefully before making any judgments on wear and condition. Dirt can sound like distortion. Too light a tracking force can induce distortion too. Clean a fav record, clean the tip (carefully), set tracking to max mfg recommendation and play again. if OK, you have other issues.

Wel I had a handful of records recently cleaned by AK member Meggy and purchased a few new virgin vinyl records they are super clean, but still pick up a little bit of noise so I do not think it is the records. The needle appears clean (used the Stylus cleaning tood in the DiscKit) but I will get the jewlers loop to get a better look.

Would it pay to get the economical retip (for $150) as opposed to getting a brand new cart like the AT440mla....Even after a retip, is it possible taht my cart is starting to go after 28 years?

It is not likely that the cartridge is defective. If you're getting clean sound out of the cartridge for the most part, it might be the stylus, alignment, VTA, VTF or other factors that are impacting your experience.

I agree that a stylus inspection is in order. If the stylus looks bad, you're well on your way at $150 to getting a new DL-103. If the stylus is bad, then a new 103 is an option. I really like the 103, and liked it better with a few simple mods. Ditching the plastic case - "nuding" the 103 - is one of the relatively easy (not to mention free) tweaks for the 103 that many agree help this cartridge out alot.

However, be advised that the 103 seems to have many rabid fans as rabid detractors. If your system synergizes well a cartridge that has a slightly rolled off high end, and a warm, plump and aggressive midrange, you'll like the 103. If not, it might pay to look elsewhere...

Wouldn't a HOMC cartridge be considered a step down from a LOMC by most people?

Indeed it would, but he's asking for suggestions about replacing his original with an MM cart. I figured he must be thinking of going from LOMC to MM because he has a gain issue with his preamp.

Wel I had a handful of records recently cleaned by AK member Meggy and purchased a few new virgin vinyl records they are super clean, but still pick up a little bit of noise so I do not think it is the records. The needle appears clean (used the Stylus cleaning tood in the DiscKit) but I will get the jewlers loop to get a better look.

Would it pay to get the economical retip (for $150) as opposed to getting a brand new cart like the AT440mla....Even after a retip, is it possible taht my cart is starting to go after 28 years?

Magic Eraser is inexpensive and works for me as well as others for cleaning a stylus. Having a good magnifying glass is useful in several ways to get your system set correctly including seeing Stylus Rake Angle (SRA which is related to VTA). Correct set-up of your cartridge is important. Look here for a short discussion:

http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/vzone/cartalign.asp

With a MC retip, you are getting the cantilever replaced as well as the stylus so there shouldn't be anything to have gone bad. IF your TA is fairly heavy and phono amp and/or step-ups are good for MC, then I would rather have the DL103 than the AT440Mla. Generally, the DL103 likes to see a load of about a 100 Ohms....fairly typical for MC cartridges whereas MM cartridges are typically 47kOhm....so if you have a selectable load, you might want to check what it is.

Wouldn't a HOMC cartridge be considered a step down from a LOMC by most people? Don't get me wrong, the only MC cartridges I've had are HOMC, and they are fantastic. If you're willing and able to spend the money one thing I'd recommend is the Dynavector 10X5 ($380), which is a HOMC cart. and handles surface noise pretty well in my experience. Overall I've found the 10X5 to be a great cartridge, particularly in the areas of imaging and detail (in that price range).


Does HO moving coil mean it'll work in just about any MM phono input? Then the ? becomes how inherently does the sound differ from MMs. I've never had any moving coil....

That be a nice Kenwood table in this thread.....

Wouldn't a HOMC cartridge be considered a step down from a LOMC by most people? Don't get me wrong, the only MC cartridges I've had are HOMC, and they are fantastic. If you're willing and able to spend the money one thing I'd recommend is the Dynavector 10X5 ($380), which is a HOMC cart. and handles surface noise pretty well in my experience. Overall I've found the 10X5 to be a great cartridge, particularly in the areas of imaging and detail (in that price range).


Interesting question, I have wondered the same thing at times. I wonder if the thought that HOMC are worse than LOMC has any merit or if it's a perpetuating myth based on nothing. Seems that every type of cart has a number of stellar alternatives available and I'd probably lean towards the belief that no particular type/style is inherently better than anohter. Then again, i'm a noob.

The reason I am looking for a MM cart is that I am selling my current Pioneer SX-D7000 which has a setting for MM and MC and plan only to use my Kenwood KA-7100 which has no selection and I do not want to have to purchase a seperate step-up preamp (especially since I am currently not that happy with the Denon). Is it possible that even after following some online adjustment instructions that I am still so far off on VTA and other adjustments that it makes the cart sound so bad?!?!

The reason I am looking for a MM cart is that I am selling my current Pioneer SX-D7000 which has a setting for MM and MC and plan only to use my Kenwood KA-7100 which has no selection and I do not want to have to purchase a seperate step-up preamp (especially since I am currently not that happy with the Denon). Is it possible that even after following some online adjustment instructions that I am still so far off on VTA and other adjustments that it makes the cart sound so bad?!?!

Then I stand by my original suggestion. A HOMC should work just fine without a phono-amp, maybe a tad quieter than an MM but once you step up to MC you have alot more options.

Interesting question, I have wondered the same thing at times. I wonder if the thought that HOMC are worse than LOMC has any merit or if it's a perpetuating myth based on nothing. Seems that every type of cart has a number of stellar alternatives available and I'd probably lean towards the belief that no particular type/style is inherently better than anohter. Then again, i'm a noob.

I've used HOMC and LOMC. It's not like there's some night and day omygod difference but I do agree with the general consensus that LOMC is better. The smaller coils make it just that little bit quicker/dynamic/detailed. That said, I've used and enjoyed HOMC but my preference is LOMC. Typically both HOMC and LOMC require a medium to heavy TA to perform well but the phono amp/gain requirements are different. HOMC will typically perform on any MM type phono amp....you might have a low output phono amp and low gain system that could struggle but that wouldn't be common.
The difference between MM and MC is basically the same as the difference between HOMC and LOMC but just more pronounced -quicker/dynamic/detailed. Clearaudio is making some highline MM cartridges which I haven't had the chance to audition but are reported to be very nice. I'd love to spend some time listening to a Clearaudio Maestro. It wouldn't surprise me if it bested some HOMC and maybe even LOMC cartridges given some of the reviews...but that's reviews I haven't had a chance to listen for myself.
I have spent some time listening to wood body Grados (MI) - reference series - and those are just a different sound and I've enjoyed them more than any MM that I've yet heard. Not as detailed/quick as the LOMC but the warmth and bass are wonderful. I'd like to spend some time with the new Statement series wood bodies and see if the reduced weight coils make them quicker/detailed, etc - makes sense but I'd like to hear it for myself. It could be really killer if the warmth survives intact with increased speed/detail. If someone has spent some time with a statement series Grado, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

It's fun to listen to different types of cartridges but not so easy to get a chance to spend some quality time listening to different ones.

Before we go any further, do you or does anyone know what the effective mass of the stock tonearm is? I see that it's s shaped so it's hard to believe that it's low mass but s-shaped could be anything from medium to heavy. If it's a good match for the 103 (low compliance) then you shouldn't go to a high compliance MM cartridge as the arm would be too heavy.

I've used HOMC and LOMC. It's not like there's some night and day omygod difference but I do agree with the general consensus that LOMC is better. The smaller coils make it just that little bit quicker/dynamic/detailed. That said, I've used and enjoyed HOMC but my preference is LOMC. Typically both HOMC and LOMC require a medium to heavy TA to perform well but the phono amp/gain requirements are different. HOMC will typically perform on any MM type phono amp....you might have a low output phono amp and low gain system that could struggle but that wouldn't be common.
The difference between MM and MC is basically the same as the difference between HOMC and LOMC but just more pronounced -quicker/dynamic/detailed. Clearaudio is making some highline MM cartridges which I haven't had the chance to audition but are reported to be very nice. I'd love to spend some time listening to a Clearaudio Maestro. It wouldn't surprise me if it bested some HOMC and maybe even LOMC cartridges given some of the reviews...but that's reviews I haven't had a chance to listen for myself.
I have spent some time listening to wood body Grados (MI) - reference series - and those are just a different sound and I've enjoyed them more than any MM that I've yet heard. Not as detailed/quick as the LOMC but the warmth and bass are wonderful. I'd like to spend some time with the new Statement series wood bodies and see if the reduced weight coils make them quicker/detailed, etc - makes sense but I'd like to hear it for myself. It could be really killer if the warmth survives intact with increased speed/detail. If someone has spent some time with a statement series Grado, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

It's fun to listen to different types of cartridges but not so easy to get a chance to spend some quality time listening to different ones.

Yes and for that matter it is difficult to compare any two since everything would have to be identical except the two carts.

From what you're describing, I'm afraid to hear really good carts - afraid that is of how much better they'll sound than my $100 carts!

Moreover before I got that far I think I'd put money into improving the acoustics in the unfinished basement...

From what you're describing, I'm afraid to hear really good carts - afraid that is of how much better they'll sound than my $100 carts!

Moreover before I got that far I think I'd put money into improving the acoustics in the unfinished basement...

It's funny, but I've been surprised a few times. You don't know what's possible until you hear it. Unfortunately, after that you want it and then....well, you know...the audiophile sickness :)

I'd love to have a good basement to play in with my audio toys. I bet there are lots of things one could do with an unfinished basement. I guess I'd find that to be a big toy that I couldn't avoid playing with. :)

ANyone got an answer on my stock tonearm? It is S shaped and bulky..is it a heavy arm? If so, if the Denon 103 even a good match? Are any carts good for "heavy" tonearms?
Should I get a low mass tonearm like the person who posted a pic of their table (and get a different cart?

I've a Kenwood KD-500 fitted with an Infinity Black Widow arm and a Grado Platinum wood-body MI cartridge that I've been enjoying for the last many months. I've been very impressed with this turntable.

From what I have read from KD-650 owners the stock arm is quite decent and I wouldn't be in any hurry to get rid of it. My two cents is look for a nice moving magnet cartridge that was popular about the same time as the KD-650, I'v had very good luck with the Stanton 681eee on my KD-500 with Sumiko MMT arm.

If the Denon is 28 years old, not only might the stylus be worn (depending on how much its been used), but the damper/suspension may be hardening. I believe your arm is a good match for it, and I have seen people praising its build quality and sound, so I would doubt if its your problem. But what about the Pioneer? I don't know the model or its age, but not only are some electronics hard and bright sounding, but electronics age and can change how they sound also. So its possible that what you are objecting to is the reciever.
As an experiment, you might try hooking up the turntable to the Kenwood and skipping the stepup -- you'll have to crank up the volume, so be careful. There are people who use MCs routinely this way, avoiding one extra layer of electronics, for purer sound. I don't have the nerve to do this, but it might give you some insight into whether its the cartridge or the electronics. But make sure you turn the volume down before changing anything!

Indeed it would, but he's asking for suggestions about replacing his original with an MM cart. I figured he must be thinking of going from LOMC to MM because he has a gain issue with his preamp.

Aha, got it, I misunderstood what was being said. And yes, you can use a HOMC cartridge with a MM phono preamp, since someone asked that.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the carts that are online are DL-103 and my cart is a different color and is a DL-103D.

Well I hooked up the turntable to the kenwood and raised the volume up and it sounded almost the same as with the Pioneer (which is on its way to AK member Pioneervato), so it is not the system. I will look into it more in the next few weeks and maybe I will consider a retip and taking of the cartridge casing.

Anyone have any links to removing cartridge casings?

I don't think removing the case will solve your problem -- removing it might make a well functioning one slightly less resonant, but it won't cure an actual defect in sound, which is what it sounds like you have. Probably stylus wear or dried up suspension, just as you originally suspected. I'd have it rebuilt before bothering to nude it.

Iremoving it might make a well functioning one slightly less resonant, but it won't cure an actual defect in sound, which is what it sounds like you have.

Agree. It might actually make things worse as the 103 is one of the most non-compliant of MC cartridges and loves a heavy arm. Some people add weight to make it sound better - everything from a little blu-tak to adding ebony wood bodies.