Another AK member has alerted me to the fact that an eBay seller has downloaded documents from the AK Pioneer PDF database (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91705)to resell on eBay. I know that these are "ours" because the documents were scanned by another AK member and emailed directly to me for me compile and AK distribute, and the wear marks on the eBay PDFs are identical to "ours".

I am not surprised that this sort of thing is happening, but disappointed how low some people are willing to set their moral standards for four bucks. Presumably, the seller is registered with AK, as AK login is necessary to view the login details for the Pio database.

Just wanted to let you all know in case you are planning to purchase Pio docs off eBay - you might as well pick them up for free here!

It doesn't surprise me:no: Some folks are just hard up for money and anyway to make a quick buck FOR NOTHING:thumbsdn: is a shame. I hope the contribution of material to AK doesn't stop due to this.

Another AK member has alerted me to the fact that an eBay seller has downloaded documents from the AK Pioneer PDF database (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91705)to resell on eBay. I know that these are "ours" because the documents were scanned by another AK member and emailed directly to me for me compile and AK distribute, and the wear marks on the eBay PDFs are identical to "ours".

I am not surprised that this sort of thing is happening, but disappointed how low some people are willing to set their moral standards for four bucks. Presumably, the seller is registered with AK, as AK login is necessary to view the login details for the Pio database.

Just wanted to let you all know in case you are planning to purchase Pio docs off eBay - you might as well pick them up for free here!

It doesn't surprise me too. One reason why I was hesitant a while back in providing hard earned documentation to just anyone. There are to many ass wipes out there.

Some way we can have E Bay do something about it.Or is it not illegal?

I realize it would add extra time to preparing these docs but how about adding an exclusive "AK" watermark of some sort?

I realize it would add extra time to preparing these docs but how about adding an exclusive "AK" watermark of some sort?

It would not help too much I am afraid. Recently I bought a DVD full of Marantz Pubs and sure neough about half of the vintage ones had a "Hi-Fi engine" watermark :tears:

There are only two ways I will buy documents from eBay; either they are originals or copies from Mike Thomasen (Techman777).

Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't have to be a subscriber to download them ?

If so the person in question more then likely is not even a contributor to this site.

I also wounder if one could find out who's downloaded alot of the manuals from the site as of late. Sure don't want to sound like a Big Brother advocate . Must be picking up subliminal thoughts from current events.......

Just trying to make this person in question wonder if they should be reading this...

"O" "Well" I not to crazy about PDF's SM's anyway.

Barney

i remember a show on TV awhile back "Anything for money" this is part of the "live" version.

Think of it this way, by the time the poor fool lists it, pays the listing fees he is not even getting the minmum wage.:D

Hey four 7s I'll raise you $2 and see you.

There are only two ways I will buy documents from eBay; either they are originals or copies from Mike Thomasen (Techman777).

I'm with Merrylander on this one. I've had great service from Mike and can recommend him as a great place to get quality documents.

We are "blessed" with doucument resellers in our NakTalk group as well. One of our members sells CDs with our uploaded data on it, and he never asked permission. On one level it is offensive, but on another the altrustic goals of those of us who share manuals through scanning must override the urge to control the money. (I sound like Spock) Vintage would become worthless without the ability to repair it, so these documents keep adding value to our "stuff."

Wow, it seems that all those $3.99 BIN listings have suddenly ended early.:scratch2:


Do you think that special "someone" got the message?


It's sad to see abuse like this and if it were up to me, I'd expel the culprit from the site. Am I being too harsh?

If not, someone should buy from him and give him reprehensible feedback.

I contributed a lot to the AK-database and I know these things happen.
It won't keep me off contributing in the future because it's the only realistic way to keep the vintage equipment going.
First pay for repair-documents, then parts ..and maybe labour ...naah, not really. And that's a shame because they absolutely don't make'em like they used to!
I just hope people will swing-by AK before e-prey. That should put an end to much of the scam.

rgds,

/tri-comp

Perhaps we bombard the seller with questions about the source? I've seen where buyer questions appear on the sellers listing but I'm guessing that's an option available to the seller.

Yup, the seller, when answering a question, gets to decide if it should be added to the listing or not.

Using toolhaus.org and the AK member database it shouldnt be too hard to find out who this person is and send them a "kind" administrative PM.

Come to think of it, if AK itself created an eBay account and started selling the documents such that all proceeds went to AK I think that would be an awesome idea!

Perhaps we bombard the seller with questions about the source? I've seen where buyer questions appear on the sellers listing but I'm guessing that's an option available to the seller.

Then he's got our ebay names in a nice list for retaliation...

Some of us don't have E Bay accounts.

:no:

It would not help too much I am afraid. Recently I bought a DVD full of Marantz Pubs and sure neough about half of the vintage ones had a "Hi-Fi engine" watermark :tears:

It may not prevent resellers from doing this, but it might make the buyers think twice before ordering from them again, once they know they could have gotten it for free. Might just water down the market enough that they won't see any profit in it to continue.

Then again, some people think it's worth it to have someone else find something and deliver it to them.

Anyway, at the very least, labeling them as to the source, maybe even saying reselling is prohibited, like some freeware, might lend some weight to any warnings that might be forthcoming.

First a AK'er bidding up an auction item that was intended to fix up and sold here as a benefit and now people selling scans of other AK'ers hard work. Are people that low?

First a AK'er bidding up an auction item that was intended to..... For clarification, the buying AK'er was not a member at the time he made the purchase, and only realized that the same information was available here once he joined this week (02/05/08).

EDIT: After having been alerted to it, I realize that Geespot's comments about "AK'er bidding up an auction " was directed at another incident and not the one I posted out. So please ignore the above comment: I could have deleted this post, but would rather that it stands as posted but with this addendum noted.

In cooperation with the AK member who had bought an "AK Pioneer Database" scan from an eBay seller, I have investigated some of the evidence available explaining the chain of events, including talking to the seller.

It appears that the eBay seller had purchased, and has receipt to show for this, his scans from an online subscription-based fileshare service called sharefx.com. In his own words:

"I did NOT get these files from AudioKarma. I purchased this manual from sharefx.com. I paid with PayPal and have the receipt. In fact, I did not know these manuals were freely available on Audiokarma"

Other evidence supports his position, and I believe him.

My original statement that someone has downloaded, and is offering them for sale as part of a commercial service therefore still stands, but the chain of events was a little more extended than I had anticipated.

Bottom line is, when something is available for free on the Internet, we have in reality lost control of how it is distributed. Furthermore, we have to accept that it might also get repackaged in ways not anticipated, even if this may be in conflict with the wishes and objectives of the original donors.

I will consult with Mods to have this thread locked.

I will consult with Mods to have this thread locked.

Now that the mystery is solved I think that is a good idea and since it is your thread and you have requested it, this thread is closed.