I went back and read some posts as to a McIntosh tube CD player...As there is no such player...
What are your suggestions in a 2 channel CD player? I have been looking at
Musical Fidelity Nu Vista CD Player, It must be a close out @ Saturday Audio?
Thanks,
George.:zoom:

I have a Shanling CDT100 and 2 Shanling CDT200 tube cd players, like them all.

You do understand that the tubes in these "tubed CD players" are just a cathode follower or other line-level output driver... everything upstream of the tube is plain-vanilla CDP?

Just checking.

You do understand that the tubes in these "tubed CD players" are just a cathode follower or other line-level output driver... everything upstream of the tube is plain-vanilla CDP?

Just checking.

I have been told that before as a warning when considering a CD player that use tubes. I have read for several years that people have found a warmth from their CD's via such a unit they never had before...

I am actually looking at any CD player that will make my 100's of CD's sound better:music:

Well, I guess my point was that there may be less expensive -- or more general -- ways of warming up those CDs than buying a "tube CDP".

I.e., a cheap tube buffer, or a not-so-cheap tube preamp may give you all that you're looking for.

Well, I guess my point was that there may be less expensive -- or more general -- ways of warming up those CDs than buying a "tube CDP".

I.e., a cheap tube buffer, or a not-so-cheap tube preamp may give you all that you're looking for.

Given my current use of the Lexicon MC4 as my processor, I have gone with the MC202 as my power for my fronts... I do have a Mapletree 4SE tube phono preamp that is being built.. so there are tubes in the vinyl path....CD path???

My Jolida 100 definitely sounds better than my Sony 595. Even with a Number Cruncher DAC on the Sony.

Maybe pirate a tube amp from a "$20" old CL console and dedicate it to your CDP.

If you are not afraid of Chinese- http://pacificvalve.us/cdplayers.html

Check out the Ah! 4000 Njoe Tjoeb from Upscale audio :

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=50

very few of these come up for resale!! Mine has proven itself
now over 7 years. Can use 6922 7308 6dj8 and even the 7dj8.:tresbon:

Lector makes an excellent tube CD player. I'm expecting mine to arrive today or tomorrow.

Decware makes one. $799

Still rollling tubes but im digging my new Melody.

My Jolida 100 definitely sounds better than my Sony 595. Even with a Number Cruncher DAC on the Sony.

Maybe pirate a tube amp from a "$20" old CL console and dedicate it to your CDP.

Meggy, have you tried different tubes in your Jolida yet?
My Jolida sounds warmer than my Denon without a doubt, thinking about rolling some different tubes in it.

In the used market, look for a California Audio Labs Delta transport and Sigma II or Alpha DAC. Both DACs use 12ax7 tubes (Sigma II uses one, Alpha has 3) in the output to add some tube warmth. I like my Delta/Sigma II a lot. Of course you can add the Sigma II or Alpha as an outboard DAC to any CD player with a digital output.

If you are not afraid of Chinese- http://pacificvalve.us/cdplayers.html

What do you suggest? I have seen a few on ebay? :scratch2:

not tubes but will make your rig sound like you broke the bank the Music Hall 25.2 money well spent look at the review on it in Stereophile.

Check out the Ah! 4000 Njoe Tjoeb from Upscale audio :

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=50

very few of these come up for resale!! Mine has proven itself
now over 7 years. Can use 6922 7308 6dj8 and even the 7dj8.:tresbon:

Looks like a nice unit....:scratch2:

What do you suggest? I have seen a few on ebay? :scratch2:

I have the MHZS CD88E and love it. Nice tube sound. They also have the CD33E and CD66E models. They come in black or silver. The MHZS units are built in the same factory with the Shanling units and they seem to be heavy, well built, quality units.
As with any tube player you need to burn the tubes in for best sound, but right out of the box mine sounded great and is getting better as it burns in. No regrets on my part.

I have had good luck with the Chinese vendors on the bay, but as always look at their feedback and go from there.
Some of them will sell units for very low bid prices but have higher shipping fees. If you are patient and it does not get bid up, you can get a really good deal this way. I and others have done this and saved quite a bit. Do your homework first and compare your options so you will know what the total price will be whatever way you go. I found shipping from China, Australia, Europe, etc, takes a while regardless if you choose express or standard. They have to go through customs so be prepared to wait for it to arrive if you go this route. You can save if you are willing to go standard shipping. The times are actually not that much different from express.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Jim

I have the MHZS CD88E and love it. Nice tube sound. They also have the CD33E and CD66E models. They come in black or silver. The MHZS units are built in the same factory with the Shanling units and they seem to be heavy, well built, quality units...

I have had good luck with the Chinese vendors on the bay, but as always look at their feedback and go from there.

Jim

Thanks for the information. Not sure I can do Chinese as a high-end piece?
I am looking...but:scratch2:
Same question with the Melody.
George

I've had several CD players where I bypassed the final stage and put in a tube buffer stage.

Went back to listening to vinyl.

Was it better? Yes.
Was it worth the trouble? :dunno:

Check out the Ah! 4000 Njoe Tjoeb from Upscale audio :

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=50

very few of these come up for resale!! Mine has proven itself
now over 7 years. Can use 6922 7308 6dj8 and even the 7dj8.:tresbon:

Highly recommended! I love mine!:thmbsp:

I went back and read some posts as to a McIntosh tube CD player...As there is no such player...
What are your suggestions in a 2 channel CD player? I have been looking at
Musical Fidelity Nu Vista CD Player, It must be a close out @ Saturday Audio?
Thanks,
George.:zoom:

Not all tube output stages are the same. Some tube players just run the output of an op amp through a set of tubes. Basically a buffer type set up. Other machines will use a full tube output stage, but these are usually more expensive machines.

I have owned a Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1, which is a well regarded tube CDP. Really wasnt to my liking. From what I have experienced, tube CDPs are not intended to be accurate, but instead add a romantic element to CD playback. This may or may not be what you want to hear. It wasnt for me. I got higher resolution, accurate tonal balanace, and a unfatuiging listening experience by using a high quality solid state DAC and transport.

Regards
Mister Pig

Not all tube output stages are the same. Some tube players just run the output of an op amp through a set of tubes. Basically a buffer type set up. Other machines will use a full tube output stage, but these are usually more expensive machines.

I have owned a Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1, which is a well regarded tube CDP. Really wasnt to my liking. From what I have experienced, tube CDPs are not intended to be accurate, but instead add a romantic element to CD playback. This may or may not be what you want to hear. It wasnt for me. I got higher resolution, accurate tonal balanace, and a unfatuiging listening experience by using a high quality solid state DAC and transport.

Regards
Mister Pig

Thanks for the input. I am taking my time and looking at all avenues to produce the best CD playback that will work in my system. I do have access to Simaudio product for a non-tube CDP.
:zoom:

I've heard Grumpy's Melody, and it is a fine piece, and it is still being broken in.

I got the first Lector, the one that jcmjrt spoke of having heard at the AK Fest.

She didn't let another slip through her fingers.

Thanks for the input. I am taking my time and looking at all avenues to produce the best CD playback that will work in my system. I do have access to Simaudio product for a non-tube CDP.
:zoom:

:scratch2: Looking at the Bluenote Stibbert Tube CDP...David Michael Audio and Audio Limits look like sources... Ayon CD-1 @ USA Tube Audio?

I am also looking @ Venus Hi-Fi:music:
George

Prima Luna CD Player, coming soon. Note, it has 2(?) rectifiers.

http://www.primaluna-usa.com/images/pro8_big.jpg

Jack

My modified Jolida tube unit possess absolute killer sound. A used stock unit can be found on Audiogon pretty regularly for around $550-600.

Not all tube output stages are the same. Some tube players just run the output of an op amp through a set of tubes. Basically a buffer type set up. Other machines will use a full tube output stage, but these are usually more expensive machines.

I have owned a Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1, which is a well regarded tube CDP. Really wasnt to my liking. From what I have experienced, tube CDPs are not intended to be accurate, but instead add a romantic element to CD playback. This may or may not be what you want to hear. It wasnt for me. I got higher resolution, accurate tonal balanace, and a unfatuiging listening experience by using a high quality solid state DAC and transport.

Regards
Mister Pig

So given your experience(s)....what CDP do you reccomend?
George:scratch2:

So given your experience(s)....what CDP do you reccomend?
George:scratch2:

Hi,

Well I guess I should put my personal preferences up front. First of all, I believe the source is a critical component, and a user should invest a good portion of the audio kitty in this area. Secondly, I prefer a transport/DAC combo. So, I am nto as well versed in single box players.

But, I noticed something. Your system detail at the bottom of the post shows a Squeezebox. It can be a great unit, but its stock form sonics is pretty poor. When I first used it, even as a digital transport, I was unimpressed. I was doing a review of it for Affordable Audio when Wayne from the Bolder Cable Company got ahold of me and sent a couple of ELPAC power supplies for it. Both sounded good, although his modified one was noticably better. I eventually obtained a Bolder Cable Co Ultimate power supply v1 for the Squeezebox. Also have the Full Enthusiast mods in it now. Getting ready to do a review of it. The analog output mods are quite nice, they may be your ticket. Smooth, easy on the ears, but good detail. The mods drop output voltage to 1.2v, so an active pre amp is needed. AS a digital transport its good, and that mod is less expensive. I enjoy using my Squuezebox, but would have junked it in stock form.

OK, back to single box players. If you did want tubes, well I think the AH Tjoeb would be a good one, especially with the upgrades. I think the MF one would be respectable too.

For SS output, the Music Hall Maverick is a fine machine. I have heard a few iterations of the Meridian, always good sounding. Now a Wadia 830 would be a great machine. The Rega Apollo is well liked also. Finally, the Arcam Full Metal Jacket is an excellent player.

All these machines will have a different presentation. So that would be my short list for one box players.

As for DAC. Well I use a Audio Magic Kukama. The new Channel Islands VD2 DAC is a interesting piece. Discrete ouputs, not often done anymore. The Monarchy NM 24 offers a choice between tube and OP amp output stage. Very flexible. The Audiosmile modified Behringer is a GREAT value. Loved it, would have kept it if I didnt own the Kukama. The Sonic Frontiers DAC's are a good value on the used market, and have tube outputs...if thats gonna be your thang.

As always, YMMV.

Regards
Mister Pig

...I noticed something. Your system detail at the bottom of the post shows a Squeezebox. It can be a great unit, but its stock form sonics is pretty poor. When I first used it, even as a digital transport, I was unimpressed. I was doing a review of it for Affordable Audio when Wayne from the Bolder Cable Company got ahold of me and sent a couple of ELPAC power supplies for it. Both sounded good, although his modified one was noticably better. I eventually obtained a Bolder Cable Co Ultimate power supply v1 for the Squeezebox. Also have the Full Enthusiast mods in it now. Getting ready to do a review of it. The analog output mods are quite nice, they may be your ticket. Smooth, easy on the ears, but good detail. The mods drop output voltage to 1.2v, so an active pre amp is needed. AS a digital transport its good, and that mod is less expensive. I enjoy using my Squuezebox, but would have junked it in stock form.

As always, YMMV.

Regards
Mister Pig

This sounds like a good modification(s)... but I use the digital out on the SB3,as it sits under my center channel, so I can see the screen and navigate, etc. I will contact Bolder Cable...maybe the power end would be an upgrade?

George:scratch2:

Hmm, I'm considering the Jolida tube DVD player, since I'm in the market for a new DVD player and of course it also plays CDs, so I figure I can kill two birds with one stone that way for about $100 more than their CDP costs. Never heard from anyone who has one though.

I love my Opera Consonance CD-120 Linear non-oversampling CD player. It's not tubed but has a very "vinyl-like" sound. Opera also makes some nice tubed CD players, too.

I think your missing out by not considering Chinese manufacturers. Some of the newer boutique outfits like Opera are really making a name for themselves.

I plan on buying a MHZS CD 88F soon. Found a seller on Taobao that will do $800 shipped. I'm very interested in what the MHZS player sounds like especially upsampling at 176.4 KHz.

Martin

Bring back an old thread here.

I have been looking at "tube" CDP's and then began reading that putting tubes in the analog output stage of a DAC is a cheap way to make a poor sounding piece of digital equipment easier on the ear. I have also tried a tube buffer in between my current CDP and pre and did not like it. It was noisy, and added grain.

Is there any tube CDP that is not just a CDP with a buffer in it?

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/708prima.1.jpg

The Primaluna Prologue 8 is a great CDP

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/primaluna/pl8hifiworld.pdf

If it played SACD I would probably buy one...

Is there any tube CDP that is not just a CDP with a buffer in it?

In a sense, they all have to be. But I think the trick to getting it good is to use a R2R (not reel to reel, but a resistor ladder R and 2R inside the D to A chip) DAC chip, that outputs a current as the analog audio signal, and instead of the usual op-amp, feed it into a resistor to convert the current into a voltage signal, usually around 200mV. Feed that into your favorite vacuum tube buffer amplifier to create line drive signal levels. No evil op-amps involved. :D

I've played around doing just this, see http://pw2.netcom.com/~wa2ise/radios/tubedac.htm and a guy in Poland has done much more, at
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/Lampizator.html

A Dutch company named Heart used to sell modified Marantz players with tubes.

a guy in Poland has done much more, at
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/Lampizator.html

One of my projects is to modify my Philips CD-350 following the Lampizator procedure. I like the guy's style and ideas!

I'm on the fence here. These units are really pricey.

Looking for something that does HDCD (Anthem does), and SACD. The PrimaLuna does neither at $2500 list?

Bring back an old thread here.

I have been looking at "tube" CDP's and then began reading that putting tubes in the analog output stage of a DAC is a cheap way to make a poor sounding piece of digital equipment easier on the ear. I have also tried a tube buffer in between my current CDP and pre and did not like it. It was noisy, and added grain.



Chuck, we've been talking about this through PM, but the Jolida does not fall into the category of what you're describing here. There are no opamps in it.

I have been looking at Musical Fidelity Nu Vista CD Player

You will be hard pressed to do any better for the money that they sell for used. You get some tube flavor without a loss of detail and it will outperform most of what's been mentioned here.

Ayon CD-1

A very nice player too.

You will be hard pressed to do any better for the money that they sell for used. You get some tube flavor without a loss of detail and it will outperform most of what's been mentioned here.



A very nice player too.

The Nu-Vista is a nice player. I've got the A308 which is supposed to be the solid state version of the same player. I've had my A308 heavily modded and it sounds so beautifully rich, it seems more analog than a high end turntable. You really can get an excellent analog 'sound' from a solid state player with good mods.

That Prima Luna looks badass!

Don't know if its been mentioned but there was a company in New Jersey called Melos they modified a Sony cd player with tubes and also had a tubed analog processor to mate it with....

Listen to a Consonance CD P 5 and watch your wallet loose a couple of pounds after drooling....

Well, I guess my point was that there may be less expensive -- or more general -- ways of warming up those CDs than buying a "tube CDP".

I.e., a cheap tube buffer, or a not-so-cheap tube preamp may give you all that you're looking for.


After looking around ... I bought a Grant Fidelity B-283 tube buffer for $125.

I'll probably get an Oppo which has SACD & HDCD capability, and save a lot of $$.

After looking around ... I bought a Grant Fidelity B-283 tube buffer for $125.

I'll probably get an Oppo which has SACD & HDCD capability, and save a lot of $$.

I'm very happy with the Grant Fidelity B-283. Currently using it with a Rotel RCD-1072. The nuances do reveal a 'tube like' sound. Nice little unit.

The way I went at it was to combine a high-quality CDP as a transport with a tube DAC...what I came up with was a Cambridge CD4SE CDP (which has a Philips CDM12.2 transport and was designed by the guy who designed the DACMagic) connected via BNC output to a Cal Audio Sigma II tube DAC (with a Telefunken 12AX7)...the entire rig cost less than $500, and I thought it did a great job of warming things up.

(I actually just bought a Marantz 8001 that was modded by Tube Research Labs...so look for the above-mentioned rig at Barter Town very soon...)

My Jolida 100 definitely sounds better than my Sony 595. Even with a Number Cruncher DAC on the Sony.

Maybe pirate a tube amp from a "$20" old CL console and dedicate it to your CDP.

I second that, the Jolida has a warm sweet sound.:yes::yes::yes:

Meggy, have you tried different tubes in your Jolida yet?
My Jolida sounds warmer than my Denon without a doubt, thinking about rolling some different tubes in it.

I have rolled NOS Telefunkens and Mullards, the Mullards actually sounded better in the JD100 than the Tellies for some reason. Nonetheless, they sound much better than the stock Chinese tubes.

m.

Here's my tube CD player - a carver SD/A-490T

Currently with cover off since the transport is sticking a little. Going to lube the rails with silicone lubricant and see if that helps.

http://webshare.us/pics/carvercd1.jpg
http://webshare.us/pics/carvercd2.jpg
http://webshare.us/pics/carvercd3.jpg

Nice.
Always wondered what they looked like under the hood.

I second that, the Jolida has a warm sweet sound.:yes::yes::yes:

The Jolida 100 is an amazing CD player, I love it.

I have had better luck with a tube pre and all solid state from there on out, tube and cdp can often soften and mush the sound, to each their own but another idea is just add a buffer on the output cd signal.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/ZCD.htm

Another way to get rid of the sometimes harsh sound from CD's could be a beltdriven CDP instead of a tubed CDP.
Pink is one of the manufacturers that made beltdriven CDP with great sound.

"dolph"

I'm very happy with the Grant Fidelity B-283. Currently using it with a Rotel RCD-1072. The nuances do reveal a 'tube like' sound. Nice little unit.


Cool. I gave mine a rest last night and ran some tunes off my iPod.

Another way to get rid of the sometimes harsh sound from CD's could be a beltdriven CDP instead of a tubed CDP.
Pink is one of the manufacturers that made beltdriven CDP with great sound.

"dolph"

This is a joke right??????? A belt driven transport wont change the sound by itself, the only reason a belt driven CDP would sound better is because of the entire chain from power to DAC to chassis and everything in between, these players will just be from companies who care more about sound, the belt has no bearing itself on sound..............its the sum of its parts.

This is a joke right??????? A belt driven transport wont change the sound by itself, the only reason a belt driven CDP would sound better is because of the entire chain from power to DAC to chassis and everything in between, these players will just be from companies who care more about sound, the belt has no bearing itself on sound..............its the sum of its parts.

In Your Humble Opinion.

However, on TT's as well as on tape decks, belts tend to sound better.
And to me, the Pink was one of the best sounding CDP's out there.
Was that partly the belt?
Maybe just.
IMHO

"dolph"

I am simply saying there is no way just a belt will make a CDP sound better and due to its digital nature more so than a table or tape deck.

I am simply saying there is no way just a belt will make a CDP sound better and due to its digital nature more so than a table or tape deck.

Yeah, I know you say so.

But I disagree.
Belt drive is contributing the a lesser harsh sound in CDP's.
IMHO.

"dolph"

Yeah, I know you say so.

But I disagree.
Belt drive is contributing the a lesser harsh sound in CDP's.
IMHO.

"dolph"

Sigh. This is what too often happens when people don't know enough about the technology to distinguish substance from snake oil.

For starters, CD is a constant linear velocity playback system, not constant angular velocity like the LP. A CD spins at about 500 RPM near inner radius (where the encoded signal starts) and slows down to about 200 RPM at the outer recorded radius on a full disc. The virtue of constant speed that a good belt-drive system brings to LP playback isn't needed or wanted in the CD system.

Next, the laser read system that extracts the EFM signal from the pits on the CD and sends it to the data separator for ECC (error-correcting code) recovery, de-interleaving and conversion to NRZ data doesn't care what mechanism spins the disc. It's simply looking for transitions from pit to land on the disc. If a disc drive maker wanted to design an idler drive system for a CD player, there's no reason he couldn't do it ... but why bother when a direct-drive spindle motor is cheap, compact and effective?

Finally, CD data is timed to a master clock that virtually eliminates jitter at the D/A converter if it's implemented properly. A buffer memory stores the data from the data separator. A stable master clock times data retrieval from the buffer and is an input to the servo system that controls spindle motor speed. This architecture ensures that any minor speed errors at the spindle motor are not translated into timing errors at an internal DAC's word clock pin or on the S/PDIF data signal to an external DAC.

To sum up, belt-drive CD transports and players may sound different from conventional transports and players, but the difference is almost certainly NOT due to the drive system. In a transport, I'd look to the clock circuitry or the S/PDIF circuit implementation as more likely causes for sonic differences, or to a listener hearing things that aren't there because he or she expects to hear a difference.

Sigh. This is what too often happens when people don't know enough about the technology to distinguish substance from snake oil.



After reading this first sentence of your post, I didn't even care to read the rest.
It just left me back thinking: "So he thinks he's a smart guy."

Thanks for making my day.
I had a great laugh after this.
;-)

"dolph"

After reading this first sentence of your post, I didn't even care to read the rest.
It just left me back thinking: "So he thinks he's a smart guy."

Thanks for making my day.
I had a great laugh after this.
;-)

"dolph"

Yeah, but he backed it up with substance. Thanks for the lesson Dr Tinear - I knew I'd learn something today.

Yeah, I know you say so.

But I disagree.
Belt drive is contributing the a lesser harsh sound in CDP's.
IMHO.

"dolph"

If you atill think so after all this, dont walk too far to the edge of thw earth, (its flat you know).

If you atill think so after all this, dont walk too far to the edge of thw earth, (its flat you know).

If You really think so after all this; If you ever happen to get traumatized from listening to your digital gear, don't urge to get psycologist therapy (Just use your mathematic skills to analyse your subconsciousness and mental state).

"dolph"

If you atill think so after all this, dont walk too far to the edge of thw earth, (its flat you know).

Oh, and by the way................
As a navigating officer in the merchant navy, I can reveal for you that Earth is not flat.

It's not really round either.

So maybe you'll need a bit more and different math and science to find your way than what you allready believe you have.

"dolph"

I think Dr Tinear's point is that there are systems in a CDP or transport that separate the bits being delivered to the DAC from any sort of errors induced by the transport mechanism.

CDPs are designed so that with these systems in place, it doesn't matter if you have direct drive, belt drive, or hamsters in a wheel: it's impossible to hear the drive system reflected in the audio signal sent from the DAC (wherever it may be: in the CDP, on an outboard DAC, in your pre/pro, in your receiver) to the amplifier.

But, if you do believe that you can hear the transport mechanism of your CDP in the audio you hear through your speakers, I have a bridge you may be interested in. Or some speaker wire stands.

I think Dr Tinear's point is that there are systems in a CDP or transport that separate the bits being delivered to the DAC from any sort of errors induced by the transport mechanism.

CDPs are designed so that with these systems in place, it doesn't matter if you have direct drive, belt drive, or hamsters in a wheel: it's impossible to hear the drive system reflected in the audio signal sent from the DAC (wherever it may be: in the CDP, on an outboard DAC, in your pre/pro, in your receiver) to the amplifier.

But, if you do believe that you can hear the transport mechanism of your CDP in the audio you hear through your speakers, I have a bridge you may be interested in. Or some speaker wire stands.

I'm aware of his, yours and others POV.
But I disagree.

This is not only about speed correction.
This is also about DD noise transplanted into components like capasitors etc.

Do this test:
Play music with your CD's cabinet open (or amplifiers cabinet or whatever is active in the listening chain) in the room next to your speakers.
Make someone knock gently on the circuit board with something rigid, like a pen or screwdriver or similar.

Detect if it's audible in what you speakers present for you.
This test will convince you that mechanical noise can be transmittet through circuit boards and components. (If you didn't already know that)

The drive of TT's, Tape decks and CDP's are equally prone to transmitting the bad noise from DD mechanisms through circuit boards and components.

Why do you think the best TT's are belt driven when it takes more effort (and money) to get a belt drive run W/F less.

So much for Dr. Tinear or anyone else who, blindly, are disciples of dead-end superstring hypotheses.

"dolph"

Give it up, guys. It appears that Dolph is unwilling to consider the facts of CD player design because they conflict with the dogma that he's bought into. It's much easier to fall back on faith and the unsupported opinions of "authorities" in the subjective review press than to take the time and effort to learn about technology. This diversion on belt-drive CD transports is going nowhere, so let's drop it and get back to the original topic of CD players with tubed output stages.

In reading this thread, I saw several insightful comments including one that recommended following a current-output DAC with a resistor to do the I/V conversion and a tube buffer to gain the converted signal up and provide a suitably low output impedance. This idea is good, but misses one critical piece of the puzzle. The signal spectrum at the DAC's output includes the baseband signal (DC to half the sampling frequency) plus images of the baseband signal centered on multiples of the sampling frequency. If the DAC oversamples, the image energy is at multiples of the oversampling frequency (176.4 kHz for the old Philips 16-bit chip sets and others that ran at 4x). This energy needs to be filtered out before the signal leaves the CD player's chassis, otherwise it can overdrive wideband line stages or amps downstream and cause audible distortion. A CD player with an op amp output stage would typically do the filtering in that stage. A CD player with a tube output stage could either put an op amp or passive filter ahead of the tube buffer or design the buffer to roll off outside the audio band.

I have a cayin cdp with a tube output that I like. I also have a mac mini with a wavelength usb dac that comes darn close to matching the cayin. The cayin is made in the same factory as the primaluna.

Enough with the attitude and cheap shots, guys. This is an interesting thread and I really have no desire to shut it down.

Keep it open but its a waste of time A BELT DOESNT CHANGE A CDP'S SOUND!

Keep it open but its a waste of time A BELT DOESNT CHANGE A CDP'S SOUND!

Hmmm...I don't think that's going to help keep this thread alive.

Give it up, guys. It appears that Dolph is unwilling to consider the facts of CD player design because they conflict with the dogma that he's bought into. It's much easier to fall back on faith and the unsupported opinions of "authorities" in the subjective review press than to take the time and effort to learn about technology. This diversion on belt-drive CD transports is going nowhere, so let's drop it and get back to the original topic of CD players with tubed output stages.

In stead of claiming I am stupid - In Your Opinion - couldn't you just admit your ignorance of the fact of microphony.
Microphony in circuits and components is a very well known pitfall for unexperienced Technical Engineers and technicians.

"dolph"

Not letting it go - too bad.
Implicating the moderators - priceless.

"So he thinks he's a smart guy."

He is.

Give it up, guys...and get back to the original topic of CD players with tubed output stages.

Amen. Good point on the post DAC filtering. Without oversampling you'd have to have a pretty steep filter to go from 20kHz to 24kHz and get it down to an acceptable level.

Microphony in circuits and components is a very well known pitfall for unexperienced Technical Engineers and technicians.

You are claiming that microphony will be more pronounced with a belt driven CDP motor because the motor in a direct drive will induce noise in the circuit boards? Unless your belt driven CDP has an outboard motor, it will still be mounted in the same chassis as the circuitry required for the digital extraction, DAC, etc. It will induce the same noise into the circuit boards, it will just be isolated from the spinning disc by the belt. How does the microphony go down unless you mount the motor on a seperate base/chassis?

And I wonder why a post, like the one I reply to here, at all is accepted by moderators.

Could that post be more peronal?
Could that post be more "All Attidtude, No Audio"?

If you feel a post is in violation of the rules, there is a red triangle at the top right of each post. Click on it and a message will be sent to the mods. Calling them out in public is a quick way to a long vacation.

Ray

Do this test:
Play music with your CD's cabinet open (or amplifiers cabinet or whatever is active in the listening chain) in the room next to your speakers.
Make someone knock gently on the circuit board with something rigid, like a pen or screwdriver or similar.

Detect if it's audible in what you speakers present for you.
This test will convince you that mechanical noise can be transmittet through circuit boards and components. (If you didn't already know that)

Well, it was good to have the afternoon off so I could try this. I opened up the Oppo and tapped lightly on the side of the mother board with a plastic ballpoint pen tube. My wife and I took turns tapping and listening (for all you fans of Chip and Dan Heath) over a number of different songs.

Volume was set at -15 dB.

Not an iota of noise. Tried it a number of times, and nary a peep, knock, blip, or sound other than the music being played.

Equipment used: Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS, Oppo DV-980H. Was listening to David Bowie's The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars on SACD.

I only opened the Oppo as we're only talking about CDPs here, and I didn't want to void the warranty on my receiver.

Enough!
Closing this one for now.