Does anyone use a Hi-FI stereo VCR to record music?

[stuwee]

If so, how's the sound quality? What type tape? Which machine?
Is it equal to a decent cassette deck? Need outboard Dolby?
Thanks Craig

[dshoaf]

Tried it when they came out waaaay back when. The flying head switching was audible in the audio tracks. It seemed like a good idea in theory but not in practice.

Today, its not that interesting given that VCR tapes are going the way of the cassette.

My opinion, though.

Cheers,

David

[Ian C.]

wooooow and flu-u-u-tter!

It seems like if you want to go old school, you could pick up a top of the line cassete deck for cheap, or even a reel to reel.

If you want to go for recording length, you could pick up one of the 1st MP3 players for probably between $20 and $50 the the old Archos models.

Maybe a better question is, what about your situation makes you ask the question? Do you have a VCR with a ton of blank tapes?
I could see this being kind of a cool idea if you just wanted some six hour mix tapes to play in the background like in a waiting room, or outdoors, but I don't think you'd be happy if you sat down to it for serious listening...

[mhardy6647]

No wow and flutter on VHSHiFi or BetaHiFi -- the audio is recorded FM. The linear audio track is very low-fi.

This topic's been discussed here previously.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87553&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123409&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28332&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74458&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111272&highlight=VHS

[Garrard201]

I've done this with many Panasonic machines, pro and consumer, VHS and S-VHS, from the PV-1730 (1984) to the AG-1980 and PV-9450 (2001?). Some of the decks I've used had level meters, some had record level adjustments, some had Dolby.... the one I use most often now (PV-9450) has none of these. However, in all cases with Panasonic decks, I've gotten excellent results. Mitsubishi's are also good. Toshiba & Sony are so-so. JVC's are just awful. Wow & flutter can be a problem on older machines, but I assume you'll be using something fairly modern.

EP, LP and SP are all pretty comparable in quality, so you could go 6 hours in EP and be OK. I would not recommend any tapes longer than T-120, simply because they don't seem to last as long without dropouts.

The modern, consumer decks I've used tend to sound a little compressed (like FM radio compared to vinyl/CD), but if you're only recording long radio broadcasts or background music to begin with, it shouldn't be a problem.

I would not use a modern, consumer deck for very critical listening... try a pro machine (AG series) for that. Many of those will not have a timer, though, in case you are trying to recording something off radio while you're out of the house.

In all cases, a trick I've learned is to record your preview channel for the video. This helps the deck maintain sync, and also gives you a sort of counter when listening to the tape.

One other option, and I don't know how expensive they are, is a PCM encoder/decoder. These were around the early 80s and allowed you to record digitally onto a videotape (this was before the days of hifi audio). Works with any format, and though digital sound has improved a great deal since then, it still might be worth looking into. You get good sound plus the long play time of a videotape.

Tell us more about what you are looking to do.

[stuwee]

wooooow and flu-u-u-tter!

It seems like if you want to go old school, you could pick up a top of the line cassete deck for cheap, or even a reel to reel.

If you want to go for recording length, you could pick up one of the 1st MP3 players for probably between $20 and $50 the the old Archos models.

Maybe a better question is, what about your situation makes you ask the question? Do you have a VCR with a ton of blank tapes?
I could see this being kind of a cool idea if you just wanted some six hour mix tapes to play in the background like in a waiting room, or outdoors, but I don't think you'd be happy if you sat down to it for serious listening...
Thanks, I have a nice Luxman cassette that won't record, and a Teac RTR (tapes are expensive), so if it sounds that bad I'll just get a cassette that can record, I still have some TDK MA-XG's and save up for reels, was taking a shot!
Thanks Craig

[OscarEmmy]

When I was at B&W Nakamichi in the UK, John Bowers (founder) and Robert Trunz (marketing director at that time) were experimenting with audio recording to video tape, because of the large format of the tape - they got fantastic results. I tried it about 10 years ago recording from CD and also had great results. You could of course get very long recordings - better than most reel to reels could manage. It was not audiophile, but was excellent for party mixes! After enough beers, your sense of balance goes, so you might as well record in mono:D:beer:

[OscarEmmy]

Thanks, I have a nice Luxman cassette that won't record, and a Teac RTR (tapes are expensive), so if it sounds that bad I'll just get a cassette that can record, I still have some TDK MA-XG's and save up for reels, was taking a shot!
Thanks Craig

What's wrong with your Luxman?

[OscarEmmy]

I still have some TDK MA-XG's

Craig - You could sell the MA-XG's on EBay to pay for repairs to your Luxman!:thmbsp:

[BrocLuno]

I like being able to record for hours from FM to make road tapes. Use the VCR to capture stuff you can't do like whan you're asleep or at work. Play back and pick off the ones you want to HDD or your cassette. It's one way to get music for th road (cassette or MP3) :)

[OscarEmmy]

Yeah, 'cos so much of radio is crappy commercials and pratt dj's talking over every track grrrrr! I listen to FM because I hear stuff I might like and then look to add it to my record collection when I'm Goodwilling

[philcib]

If so, how's the sound quality?


I always thought the quality was about equal to an open reel at
7.5 ips. Not great but definitely quite listenable.

[TAGO MAGO]

I used a Panasonic Hi-Fi VCR for years to tape my radio show in college since all I would have to do is set the timer and I did not have to worry about switching out tapes and turning the things over. I thought the sound quality was pretty good, granted I was recording from FM broadcast.

[truetone36]

I've gotten good results on a Sony Betamax machine. I have 3 different models and all have been very good for audio.

Dumont-First with the finest in television.:yes:

[Elfasto]

I have several hundred hours of music on Hi-Fi VHS tapes, using a Hitachi unit.

You can hear a teeny bit of the whirring from the drum heads, but it's almost gone on the SP speed. EP it gets a bit loud for archiving.

As for sound quality, it's excellent.
Tapes are pretty forgiving. Even the cheap T-120 tapes on SP sound very good.

[Switchblade]

Some years back, Chicago D.J. Steve Dahl used Betamax for recording songs and sound bites.

[stuwee]

Craig - You could sell the MA-XG's on EBay to pay for repairs to your Luxman!:thmbsp:

No way!! You can't find these puppies anywhere, $20 new in the late 80's, and worth every penny, the Luxman was found in a dumpster,the bias and level knobs broken off, it's a K-112, it will record but, you can't fine tune it.

Has anyone seen those TDK's for sale? Tax refund coming soon, I've not found a tape that would beat it yet.
Craig

[vinyldavid]

On a JTHZ tape mix I have heard, they used VCR's as sound storage mediums before transfer to the master.

Here's the YouTube video: the HI-RES version still sounds good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl73PRnVYnI

[devoid]

No wow and flutter on VHSHiFi or BetaHiFi -- the audio is recorded FM. The linear audio track is very low-fi.

This topic's been discussed here previously.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87553&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123409&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28332&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74458&highlight=VHS
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111272&highlight=VHS


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Beta hi fi PCM?

[mhardy6647]

You are wrong :-) it's analogue all the way. VHS HiFi and Beta HiFi are essentially equivalent approaches, recording frequency modulated audio on the helical scan tracks. 100 dB dynamic range, essentially zero wow and flutter, and no need for noise reduction. The critics gave the performance edge to Beta HiFI (which, BTW, hit the market first, but still didn't salvage the Beta format).

Panasonic (IIRC) sold a PCM deck that recorded digital audio on video cassettes (VHS, I am pretty sure) and there were add on PCM converters that recorded PCM digitial audio on the helical tracks of a VCR, but those systems were expensive and I don't think they are very common.

There were, briefly, linear-track stereo audio VCRs sold. These are pretty easy to identify, as they had Dolby NR. They had to. As you might guess, the sound quality, especially at EP, is dreadful. The linear tape speed of a videocassette is very slow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax

[sleddogman]

A friend in San Diego who was a studio recording engineer swore by using VHS-HiFi as a tape deck. Back then the first thing he did with a new vinyl LP was clean it, treat it with Last, then record it on a VHS HiFi deck at top speed and put the LP on the shelf. The sound quality through his hi-end stereo system was as good as any quality R2R.