Record player spins too fast.

[blargg]

We have a sylvainia record player (a pretty nice one too) that spins too fast. It is a 'direct drive' I believe it's called, and the inside just contains a small transformer with a motor. All of the songs play about a whole step too sharp and too fast. And yes, I do have it set to 33.3 rpm. There are no external speed adjustments to the player itself.
Thanks for your time.

[louisiii]

How do you change speed to play 45s or 78s. When you determine that then you will have an idea what is causing the problem. Also are the other speeds correct? Also what voltage is the player designed for?

[Art K.]

Did you hit the receiver with deoxit yet AnnaMouse. BTW Jan was right about the table perhaps these fella's will a have a little more of a blow by blow for ya...hope ya get it fixed.

[OscarEmmy]

Is there not a variable resistor on a circuit board inside?

[blargg]

louisiii -The speed change for the actual player is just a lever thing that shifts a plastic gear that lifts a small arm to mechanically preset levels - kind of hard to explain - nothing out of whack there I wouldn't think...

oscaremmy - I don't really know much about circuitry lingo. There weren't any circuit boards inside from what I saw, though there I couldn't really see everything... The player says 'McDonald 510' on it, if that helps at all.

Art kyle - Yeah, annamouse was just a temp login i grabbed from bugmenot so that i could post. here, I actually had to register... lol.

Thanks for the replies.

[Celt]

The "McDonald" designation makes me think it was made by BSR, whose tables tended to run fast here in the U.S. I always wondered if the tables they sent to the U.S. were intended for 50Hz use rather than 60Hz.

[OscarEmmy]

louisiii -The speed change for the actual player is just a lever thing that shifts a plastic gear that lifts a small arm to mechanically preset levels - kind of hard to explain - nothing out of whack there I wouldn't think...

oscaremmy - I don't really know much about circuitry lingo. There weren't any circuit boards inside from what I saw, though there I couldn't really see everything... The player says 'McDonald 510' on it, if that helps at all.

Art kyle - Yeah, annamouse was just a temp login i grabbed from bugmenot so that i could post. here, I actually had to register... lol.

Thanks for the replies.

Okay, I have a MacDonald 510 service manual here...(I bought a job lot of pretty much every BSR and MacDonald service manual in 2006)! There is no variable resistor. It is a rim drive using a 4-step pulley, driven by a 4-pole motor. The idler pulley may not be correctly adjusted, so that it is not cleanly driving on each stepped section, but is making contact with the adjacent higher speed section. There is an adjustments screw to correct the idler height. I will write what it says here:

"Disconnect changer from AC source and remove turntable (platter). Set speed selector knob to 33 and control knob to STOP so idler pulley rests against the 33 rpm step (the second one from the top of the pulley spindle). Using a screwdriver, turn adjustment screw until idler pulley is centered on the 33 rpm step of motor pulley. Check the alignment of idler pulley at all speeds and readjust if necessary. Move control knob to STOP and replace turntable platter, taking care not to damage the idler pulley."

I have had intermediate stepping issues with a DUAL before, so this MIGHT work (no guarantee that this is the problem). Otherwise, could be a voltage issue. Your 510 was designed for use on 117v 60 Hz AC power.

[blargg]

Man, I really don't want to sound like an idiot here, but I have no clue how to get the platter off. I can only access the player from the underside, where I can see the 'stepped' plastic spindle and the arm connected to it. I will try what you said once I get home if I can locate the mentioned parts from the underside. Thanks again for your tremendous help.

[radiotvnut]

There should be a "C" clip in the center of the platter. Gently pry the clip off with a small screwdriver and the platter should lift off. You might want to clean the stepped drive shaft on the motor with rubbing alcohol. I had a BSR run fast due to crud on the motor drive shaft.

[OscarEmmy]

There should be a "C" clip in the center of the platter. Gently pry the clip off with a small screwdriver and the platter should lift off. You might want to clean the stepped drive shaft on the motor with rubbing alcohol. I had a BSR run fast due to crud on the motor drive shaft.

Agreed! Watch the c-clip doesn't fly off into the never-to-be-found-again-reaches-of-your-living-room (as several have done for me, over the years). Also, I agree with radiotvnut's use of the word 'gently' (though firmly), because you don't want to snap the clip, or bend it. Try to keep it flat (horizontal) while you do it.

You will find it easier to take the spindle out first - just pull it upwards in a straight line. The platter may feel stuck fast even with the clip removed - just make sure to pull it upwards evenly - don't attempt to jemmy it with anything! Let us know how you get on.:thmbsp:

[Art K.]

Art kyle - Yeah, annamouse was just a temp login i grabbed from bugmenot so that i could post. here, I actually had to register... lol.

Cool...I'm Art btw...no need for both names...wish I could figure out how to change that...oh well. How about that receiver?

[Fred Longworth]

Usually what happens is that rubber gradually sloughs off the idler tire onto the motor pulley. This hardens into a dark deposit which INCREASES the motor pulley diameter, thus increasing the arc-length per unit time transferred from pulley to idler and from idler to platter rim.

The solution is simply to clean the motor pulley and remove the deposit. As noted above, BSR turntables tend to run a little fast -- but only a little, say, 1-2%. I've seen pulleys with so much deposit on the surface that the machine runs 10% fast.

Fred

[blargg]

Thanks Art - I will buy some similar cleaner at radioshack and try it when I go home to fix that crackle problem - I am up at school right now.
I will also try the c-clamp thing when I go home. I don't remember the c-clamp being visible from the top, so I guess I need to remove a couple things first.
Thanks everyone.

[OscarEmmy]

Thanks Art - I will buy some similar cleaner at radioshack and try it when I go home to fix that crackle problem - I am up at school right now.
I will also try the c-clamp thing when I go home. I don't remember the c-clamp being visible from the top, so I guess I need to remove a couple things first.
Thanks everyone.

1) If you have the automatic spindle (the long one): Pull the spindle straught up, turn clockwise to release it form its retaining spring and lift the spindle out. If the stubby 'single' spindle is fitted, it is just a pull upwards to remove it.
2) Remove the center disc, (which is the thin metal disc printed with BSR MADE IN ENGLAND or something like it), carefully by prising it out - it may be held in place by the rubber platter mat.
3) Move control knob to STOP.
4) Then you will see the circlip, which looks like a horseshoe, but much smaller! This sits into a groove around the outside of the spindle shaft. You need to prise this away as Fred suggested. Then the turntable is removable by tugging it upwards (you may need to tug quite sharply as the platter can tend to stick after years).
5) Then all will be revealed!
6) Replacement is a reversal of the above process. Make sure the circlip seats properly into the groove. Push the auto spindle back into the shaft and give it a half turn anti-clockwise when it is seated.

that's all there is to it!

[blargg]

Awesome, awesome. Thank you guys so much. I was home this weekend and fixed the turntable. -Removed the rubber mat, removed the c-clip, removed the platter, and I scraped off a layer of crud off the stepped motor shaft. Fred was right about the rubber pulley disc - it had left a layer of crud on the shaft. I also adjusted the screw and now, the record player is nearly perfect. I matched it up to my computer and the speed difference is only noticeable after a full 30 seconds or so, so the nothing the normal ear would care about, probably like 1% fast. I am very happy with it now and thanks a lot for your guys' advice. I would take a nice picture of the entire setup for you, but I forgot to take my camera home.
Thanks again!