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View Full Version : A Little Perspective: Two weeks with someone else's vinyl system.


Mr. Lin
02-18-2008, 09:10 PM
I've been eagerly awaiting a chance to sit down and write this as it's been a very interesting experience for me. I'm friends with a family that travels a lot, and for the past 7 years or so I've watched their house several times a year while they're gone, taking care of their animals, and anything else that needs to be done. I live in the house and stay there every night.

The gentleman of the house is a huge fan of classical, and he has a very nice audio system that I've truly enjoyed listening to all these years. But something changed in the past year: I became obsessed with turntables, cartridges, and all sorts of things audio, spending a great deal of my free time learning, listening, and experimenting. Suddenly I can tell you not only that his system sounds great, but also why. This time around, however, I realized that my personal system has already begun to catch up with his, and possibly surpass it.

I apologize for some of the forthcoming vagueness about certain makes and models, I really should have written down exactly what he has, but I can still give you a pretty clear idea.

The turntable is a Dual 712, direct drive, fully automatic, with a Goldring Eroica cartridge installed (and perfectly setup, this time I checked up on him with my own tools :D). He has a Balanced Audio tube preamplifier, and a Balanced Audio solid state amplifier. Don't know the exact models, but they're quite big, and through a little research I determined they're roughly $2,700 apiece. Unfortunately I've forgotten the brand of speakers, but they're rather grandiose, about 5 feet tall, and made in Germany. He uses entry level Kimber Kable interconnects and an unidentified large-gauge speaker wire that goes about 15ft or so across the room from the turntable and amplifiers.

I brought my own vinyl, as I always have, but I also listened to quite a few of his classical records; he has some really nice ones, all the top labels and in great shape.

At first listen no one could deny it's a wonderful sounding setup. The sound is very neutral, clean, fairly detailed, and, not surprisingly, capable of being very loud while still sounding great. Imaging and dynamics are good. I'm always surprised at how forgiving his system is with poor recordings and dirty records - it's rare for something to sound bad on it.

Yet listening intensely and analyzing his components as best I could (it was hard because they all seem to blur together), there was something that bothered me a little about the overall sound, and for the first week of this stay I couldn't put my finger on it. I really missed my own system (see my signature), but it took some time for me to come up with a reason. Then one night it hit me, and I exclaimed out loud to my girlfriend: "It's too laid back! That's what it is."

Too laid back. Everything sort of feels a bit in the background, it's not as involving or uplifting as you'd think such an expensive system would be. The overall emotional impact really leaves something to be desired.

Considering this over the next week I decided a lot of it must have to do with his turntable and cartridge. While both are very nice, the Dual did create a very audible rumble, and I'm sure all that gadgetry on the tonearm for the fully automatic features doesn't help. The Goldring is reputable, and I know others have reviewed it favorably, but I think it's sound is just a little too cold and boring for my taste. Again, it's hard to say how accurate any of this is since what I'm hearing could be the result of any one component just as it could be a combination of them. It's safe to say his speakers and amplifiers are deserving of a better turntable.

Don't get the wrong idea here. I'm not by any means putting his equipment down, or bragging about my own. I will, however, point out that the total value of his is about $9,000, probably twice what I've invested in my vinyl system. When I got home I eagerly put on a record, sat down, and almost immediately had chills up my spine. I'm here, I've built something from the ground up for my ears, with the best equipment I can afford, and put a whole lot of sweat into getting it just right - it sounds unbelievably great. And it's still a work in progress.

What's the point of all this, you might ask? My point is that now my ability to analyze both music and audio equipment has matured to light years beyond where it was just a year and a half ago, and now I'm able to hear what's great about my friend's system, and what's actually not that great. Furthermore, I have a renewed appreciation and love for my own setup, and I'm proud of myself because it honestly does sound incredible.

How did this happen? I think the bottom line is that I'm far more obsessed with the little (and big) details of this whole game, I've put a lot more thought into my audio system, and it's probably safe to say it's a bigger part of my life than his is to him. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that, but this last stay has been a bit of an eye opener for me, a learning experience, and something to measure my progress against. At this point things are looking up, my friends, but I'm not even close to finished.

Nailer
02-18-2008, 09:17 PM
Might be fun to take your favorite TT rig over next time you house sit.

Divotdog
02-18-2008, 09:25 PM
Well written and very insightful, it must be very thought provoking to be able to spend some time with a set up of that caliber, I have only been able to spend a couple of hours with different levels of equipment at different friends houses, I am fortunate to have friends with rigs that are not at the level that mine is and some that are quite a bit better than mine, it is always interesting to hear how different tastes affect the sound.

ozmoid
02-18-2008, 09:50 PM
Very nice write-up, Mr. Lin. :music:

My point is that now my ability to analyze both music and audio equipment has matured to light years beyond where it was just a year and a half ago, and now I'm able to hear what's great about my friend's system, and what's actually not that great.
Yes, it is an interesting side effect to "pursing nirvana" as we do. I had always been an avid music listener... but I did not truly know how to listen to a system (*not* the music :nono:), and I certainly had no great benchmarks to compare anything to.

I have a much better ability to evaluate what I hear now.

Have you been to many member gatherings? If there are any near you, by all means make an effort to attend. An afternoon speaker and amp rolling is time well spent, especially if it exposes you to a lot of "new to you" gear. :thmbsp: It is also nice to hear commentary from people who may not share your particular musical background, too.

Mr. Lin
02-18-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks everyone. Ozmoid, which member gatherings are you referring to specifically? You're very correct about the value of interacting with fellow audio enthusiasts with different musical backgrounds. In a way that's one of the great things about AK.

mwicks
02-19-2008, 12:12 AM
I can relate to you. I've only been into this hobby for a short while and have (mostly) modest gear, but I'm already picky about things to the point peope seem to get annoyed :thmbsp:.

Remember the days when one of those little boom boxes was good enough? I've recently been listening to all my old gear (shelf stereos, discmen etc) and I'm amazed that I was ever able to listen to them for extended periods.

Tedrick
02-19-2008, 06:17 AM
Very nice, Mr. Lin. It always feels good when you get some validation that the decisions and selections you've made along the way were good ones.

RichPA
02-19-2008, 06:21 AM
Very nice, interesting report on your experience. Among other things, I think it nicely demonstrates the importance of not just spending money but putting a lot of work into selection, matching, and setup of a system that fits your idea of great sound :thmbsp:

spartanmanor
02-19-2008, 06:25 AM
Good stuff :thmbsp:

piece-it pete
02-19-2008, 06:25 AM
Very nice Mr Lin! Well done.

Might be fun to take your favorite TT rig over next time you house sit.

I second the motion. [edit - if it's cool, of course]

Pete

www.records
02-19-2008, 06:33 AM
Nice writeup Mr. Lin.

Have you ever invited him over to give your system a listen? I would be curious as to his thoughts in the comparison.

KlipschFan61
02-19-2008, 06:54 AM
From what I read over at Vinyl Engine, Dual direct drives are prone to rumble as they age. Some say a good bearing lube fixes it. Audible rumble can definitely stop a good system in its tracks.

I'd definitely like to hear the review of his system with your table. Sounds like he has some awesome gear!

MitsuMan
02-19-2008, 07:23 AM
Very nice writeup Mr. Lin :thmbsp: This is a subject that an audio buddy of mine and I have frequently. We are constantly reviewing each other's systems and remarking at how we have both managed to acheive great sounding systems that sound markedly different.

He is running a Sansui AU-9500 integrated, TU-9500 tuner, SR-838 deck with an AT440MLa cartridge. His speakers are Klipsch Forte's and he has an older Magnavox CDP (can't remember model #)from the era when they were made in Belgium by Phillips.

I on the other hand currently have the following in my mancave system.

Mitsubishi DA-A15DC amp, DA-C20 tuner/preamp, DP-EC2 TT with Grado Gold cartridge, Sony CDP-C79ES CDP, and Klipsch RF-25 speakers.

While there are some similiarities between the age and place of manufacture of the gear, they sound very different. But we agree, they both sound very good to our ears. Would we trade systems? Probably not. Do we both enjoy listening to each other's systems? Very much so.

To me, this is what this hobby is all about. :beerchug:

BHamm
02-19-2008, 08:19 AM
Very well stated Mr. Lin, but have you shared your opinions with your friend? I unfortunately do not friends with audio systems I can compare with or admire. Most have surround systems. And when I attempt to get into audio particulars with them, their defenses come up and I'm an audio nerd. I would love for a knowledgeable audio person to evaluate my system so I could more clearly see it's weaker points, and fix them. It's hard to be critical with nothing to compare with. I guess I'll just keep reading and making baby steps forward.

BHamm

Mr. Lin
02-19-2008, 06:18 PM
From what I read over at Vinyl Engine, Dual direct drives are prone to rumble as they age. Some say a good bearing lube fixes it. Audible rumble can definitely stop a good system in its tracks.

I'd definitely like to hear the review of his system with your table. Sounds like he has some awesome gear!

Thanks for this info, that's very interesting. I'm sure his table has had a long life and he apparently never used any bearing lube because there is a rumble.

I sent him an email two stays ago to tell him what I thought of his system now that I could properly analyze it. I left out any criticisms, other than the fact that he had a chair sitting almost directly in front of one of the speakers. I don't think he was particularly interested because I never got a response. You see, when I say friend, it's a pretty distant friendship since I met him through his wife when they hired me. But I've know them for so many years I consider them both friends. That considered, it would be a awkward to invite him over at this point, perhaps some day down the line when the lady and I have a larger place. I agree it would be interesting to hear his impressions of my system. Something tells me there would be something about my setup he wouldn't like - maybe too forward?:D

Yes mwicks, it wasn't long ago at all that I had the Philips mini-system. When I got my Thorens (my first "real" turntable) three things were immediately apparent: The $50 phono preamp I was using needed to be tossed in the garbage right away, I needed better interconnects, and the mini-system had to go. Getting a little off-track here, but that's how it started. I can't imagine going back now.

Mitsuman I like your story of doing similar comparisons. Like I said, my system is designed from the bottom up for my ears, so other people might not like it. My friend's cartridge seemed a little too neutral, un-involving and boring to me, whereas I find my Grado to be very musical and warm, which is the sound I like.