View Full Version : Is the Renaissence 90 The Best Infinity ever Made....?)


GlobalWarming
02-19-2008, 11:26 AM
Just out of curiosity..........

For all around music listening (well without rap or heavy metal listening):music:.....

Is "Pound per Pound," the Renaissence 90 the best speaker from Infinity? And I mean, by pound per pound, best sound for the price....

Opinions are highly appreciated.....

Nel

ugornot
02-19-2008, 11:13 PM
Best? No! Lots of bigger and better Infinities
Best pound for pound? Infinitesimals 0.1
Damn fine speakers? :yes::yes::yes:

Just my humble opinion... others vary

Vitopanch
02-20-2008, 03:06 AM
Just out of curiosity..........

Opinions are highly appreciated.....

Nel

My opinion is that they are not even close. For small rooms, the Infinitesimal 0.1, 02 and 0.3 can not be beat.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/InfinityInfitesimals.jpg


For large rooms, in descending order, the best being first;

IRS Beta

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/InfinityIRSBetasOther.jpg


Reference Standard 4.5

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/InfinfinityRS45Centered.jpg


Reference Standard 1A and 1B

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/InfinityRS1two.jpg

Reference Standard 2A and 2B

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/MyRSSIIA158-5802_IMGSmall.jpg


For no holds barred, money is no object and a very large room, nothing can beat the;

Infinity Reference Standard V

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/IRS_RefernceStandardV.jpg

And the older version;

Quantum Reference Standard

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/InfinityQRSinItaly.jpg



I would rate all of these above the Renaissence 90 in my opinion.

Vito

Arkay
02-20-2008, 03:09 AM
Pound for pound? I'd agree, Infinitesimals! :yes: :D

Best sound overall? Without a doubt, the IRS Vs. Very possibly the best-sounding speakers ever made. If not, at least in the top ten, assuming there are five that I've never heard of, let alone heard, and four that some might rank higher due to differences in hearing ability and/or tastes. :D

As for realistically affordable and obtainable Infinities for us mere mortals, there are several that are bigger and better than the Ren 90s. Most of the good early ones had Greek alphabet names like Beta, Delta and Gamma. In cases where they had multiple models sharing the same series name, the TOTL models from these series were all up there in that "incredibly good" bracket, although Infinity has had a bad habit of recycling names later on for lesser speakers (even automobile speakers!). Look on sites like Bobby Shreds' and that German site for more info on rare old Infinities.

Just because they weren't the "all time best" Infinities is not to say that the Ren 90s are in any sense "slouches". Nope, they sound very :music:, too! :yes:


EDIT: While I was typing the above, Vitopanch posted pics of most of my favorites, too, including the IRS Vs I was talking about. Nice work, Vito! :thmbsp: I never get tired of looking at (and listening to, when chance permits) those great old Infinities, even if the only ones of that bunch I have so far are the Reference Series IIs. One day I'll be able to upgrade further up the chain... :music:! The Kappas, Deltas and Gammas I referred to are a notch below those Referece Series in quality, but MUCH more widely available/easily found. Most of them will not beat the Ren 90s, but a few of the best ones will (and all the ones Vitopanch shows will).

GlobalWarming
02-20-2008, 09:47 AM
Well........

I guess I was way off!

Vito........

Do you own, or have you own any of these speakers? If you do, you are some lucky individual!

And.........How difficult are these to get?

I will keep my eyes open...

Thanks a million for all the wonderful information..

Nel

Vitopanch
02-20-2008, 05:23 PM
nel,
Of the ones that I have listed, I have heard all of them extensively and own the Reference Standard 4.5's, the Reference Standard 1A's, 2A's and the Infinitesimals.

As Arkay mentioned I could/should have included the IRS Gamma, Delta and Epsilon, however, I have not been exposed to them enough to A/B comparison them with the Renaissance 90's. However, it would not surprise me that they are at least neck in neck.

As far as availability, the 4.5's, 1A's, 1B's, 2A's, 2B's and Infinitesimals are all now in the 'turnover phase', of 30 years that those in the antique business rejoice about, and come up on sale with some regularity now, about four times a year, perhaps a bit more. In a couple/three years their availability should diminish.

The IRS Beta's, Gamma, Delta and Epsilon's should start surfacing in that time frame.

Other than the USA, Germany has most of them as they were introduced to them by US Serviceman stationed in Germany that were able to obtain them for reduced prices, thus exposing the natives to them. Hence, deep pockets and a great appreciation for music, saw Infinity doing quite of bit of marketing in Germany and many sales of the high end loudspeakers.

I hope that this helps.

Vito

phaedrus
02-20-2008, 05:46 PM
Other than the USA, Germany has most of them as they were introduced to them by US Serviceman stationed in Germany that were able to obtain them for reduced prices, thus exposing the natives to them. Hence, deep pockets and a great appreciation for music, saw Infinity doing quite of bit of marketing in Germany and many sales of the high end loudspeakers.


Vito,

Thanks to you, I just experienced an "Ah-ha!" moment. I was always wondering why Germany seemed to have so many of the high-end Infinities. In fact, Rens, Sigmas, and Omegas all seem more common there than here. Now I know why.

David

rroobbcc
02-20-2008, 06:27 PM
I think the key to your question is in the definition of "pound for pound".

If we are talking size I think the original Modulus system (incl. the servo controlled subwoofer) deserves mention.

I do think quite highly of the Ren90s and would love to compare them to my RS 9 Kappas. In my (underconstruction 16' x 19') listening room I suspect I would prefer the larger RS 9 Kappas. However, in my smaller 12' x 12' home office, where quality becomes more important than quantity, I am sure the Ren90s would be a better fit.

As has been mentioned there are plenty of other Infinity speakers that will outperform the Ren90s, but they are all significantly larger. And while the Infintessimals are undoubtedly great bookshelf speakers, they are, well... bookshelf speakers. What I mean by that is that you can't expect full range sound, including great bass response, from them. They are simply too small.

I think the sweet spot for the Ren90 is where you want a full range floor standing speaker for a small to medium sized listening space. If that is what you are looking for the Ren90 is probably at the top of the list (especially in limited edition piano gloss black:thmbsp:).

rroobbcc
02-20-2008, 06:31 PM
Vito,

Thanks to you, I just experienced an "Ah-ha!" moment. I was always wondering why Germany seemed to have so many of the high-end Infinities. In fact, Rens, Sigmas, and Omegas all seem more common there than here. Now I know why.

David Yep! I bought my RS 9 Kappas at the Audio/Video club on Rhein Main Air Base in Frankfurt. They cost me $1900. MSRP at the time was $3400. :D

Tedrick
02-20-2008, 11:41 PM
That's how I came to own my RS-IIIb's. An airman bought them while stationed in Germany, had them shipped back to the U.S. when he changed duty stations, and later sold them (to me :yes:).

analog addict
02-21-2008, 07:11 PM
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/Vitopanch/IRS_RefernceStandardV.jpg

Something new to lust after!!!

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

zenithradio
02-21-2008, 10:40 PM
vito, you have the 4,5's above the rs1b's??. do you think the 4.5's overall sound better then the 1b's. both speakers have the same drivers but the 1b's have alot more of them. also seperate woofer colums for the bass. whow do they sound better in your opinion.

Negotiableterms
02-22-2008, 03:25 AM
I can only comment on the ones I actually own. The original Modulus are very fine speakers, but the Kappa 9s are better... and a lot bigger. Neither of them is in the same league as the IRS Beta, which is a truly full-range, LARGE system.

Now... I'm heavily biased since I own the Betas, but the IRS Vs outperform the Betas in all but one area: midbass. The two large L-EMIM drivers in the Beta do a better job than the column of EMIMs in the Vs in the midbass, and thus the Betas tend to sound "warmer" than the Vs. Other than that, the Vs image like crazy (line source) and sound phenominal, with much more impact than the Betas.

I actually have this same complaint about my current main speakers. Line sources have a tough time in the mid-bass, because the line source drivers have to be small diameter, and mid-bass sounds better out of larger diaphragms, IMHO. The only "fix" for this is the bass units from early Magnepans. I've heard a pair of these attached to the IRS Vs... wow.

GlobalWarming
02-22-2008, 04:32 AM
Vito,

how about these? (RS2.5)

I guess these are the RS4.5 Little sisters......

How do they rank? (RS2.5)

That is, in comparison to the RS4.5 and in the Infinity overall pecking order....

I see that they are a little more affordable....

rroobbcc
02-22-2008, 08:59 AM
Negotiableterms, thanks for the insightful comments on the Beta and IRS V. I have not heard either one, but due to the combination of possible affordability and reputation I have long lusted for a set of Betas. I have always wondered about the IRS Vs ability to perform in the area between the EMIMs and the bass towers, and I am not surprised by your observations. Perhaps one day I will get a chance to hear both of these speaker systems for myself.

mywifespissed
02-24-2008, 09:56 PM
Just an ignorant muse: Seems to me that having the bass columns of RS1 or IRS V behind the EMIM diaphrams could cause the midranges to move to the bass air pressure and cause distortion. Seems at the side of the center columns or just ahead might be a better way. Also, many speakers from various makers tilt the face back to "time allign" the drivers. If the IRS bass columns were slightly in front, might the time allignment also be improved? Unless that is all worked out in the crossover first. I have never heard either of these two models so can't say with any personal experience.

Arkay
02-24-2008, 10:46 PM
Just an ignorant muse: Seems to me that having the bass columns of RS1 or IRS V behind the EMIM diaphrams could cause the midranges to move to the bass air pressure and cause distortion. Seems at the side of the center columns or just ahead might be a better way. Also, many speakers from various makers tilt the face back to "time allign" the drivers. If the IRS bass columns were slightly in front, might the time allignment also be improved? Unless that is all worked out in the crossover first. I have never heard either of these two models so can't say with any personal experience.

Interesting thought. I can't comment on it scientifically, but years ago I was lucky enough to be there when an engineer flown out from Infinity HQ was helping set up a set of these. They guy was being very exacting about everything, so I assume he really knew what he was doing. [At the time, I didn't know enough about high-end audio to fully understand what he was doing, but he sure seemed to know.] He put the Bass towers behind and outside the EMIM/EMIT towers, much as in the picture above, so one might assume that is the "correct" arrangement for them. The speakers do have their own crossover system, and the bass towers have their own amp (in addition to whatever main amps you are using), so perhaps compensation is done electronically(?).

analog addict
02-25-2008, 12:23 PM
Interesting thought. I can't comment on it scientifically, but years ago I was lucky enough to be there when an engineer flown out from Infinity HQ was helping set up a set of these. They guy was being very exacting about everything, so I assume he really knew what he was doing. [At the time, I didn't know enough about high-end audio to fully understand what he was doing, but he sure seemed to know.] He put the Bass towers behind and outside the EMIM/EMIT towers, much as in the picture above, so one might assume that is the "correct" arrangement for them. The speakers do have their own crossover system, and the bass towers have their own amp (in addition to whatever main amps you are using), so perhaps compensation is done electronically(?).

I found the first piece (http://manuals.harman.com/INF/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/IRSV%20om.pdf) of my IRS V system....:D

OK so it was free.....:thmbsp:....But it does address placement issues and so on. And unlike some of the other drivel in other Infinity literature about just having bought some of the best speakers in the world, there isn't a peep about anything other than set up, placement and optimization. Suppose folks who bought these new already knew what they had....

I am in serious speaker lust now....:drool::drool::drool: