What to do they won't let me demo at home

[g_georgi]

I wrote a polite e-mail to the local Premier Mac dealer we have in our city (there's only one). I've done some light editing were I felt that I didn't want to say too much.


Hi,

I'm a 27-year-old audiophile that has no wife and no kids and a fairly
well paying job in the XYZ industry. I've built a very decent
system to date compared to what the average person has at home but I
find that my system lacks emotion.

It plays music well enough but the music isn't convincing and at times
can be a bit harsh in the treble depending on the recording. Also, the
soundstage seems very two-dimensional.

My setup consists of a pair of B&W 703's with NAD electronics preamp
and power amp. I've had a relationship with Henry at ABC store since
2001 and through buying, selling and upgrading I've arrived at the
setup I have now.

I'd like to change my electronics and McIntosh is definitely on the
list of components I want to try.

My source is a squeezebox; I will soon be adding a Lavry DAC to get
that last bit of resolution that is presently missing.

I'm considering either going with an integrated amp solution or with
separates and either solid-state or tubes provided they can drive my
703's adequately. Therefore the list of components I'd like to
audition include:

MA6500
MA6900
MA2275
C220+MC252
C220+MC275

So my question to you is, when I'm ready to come see you, how can we
arrange for me to listen to this equipment? I'd ideally prefer to
listen this stuff at home as my room and speakers may not be the same
as what you have in store. Also, I'm not open to bringing my speakers
in to the store because I'd be worried of damaging the wood veneer.

Do you have any suggestions or advice?

Best Regards


Here is response I got back (I lightly corrected some of the typos):

Thanks for your email, A loudspeaker is a very important part of a sound system. Any of the mcintosh combination you want to hear will reveal the real performance of your loudspeakers, nothing more, but I don’t think the B&W 703 can point out the difference between the mcintosh’s, my suggestion is to buy the ma6900 that has enough power to drive almost any speakers in case you might want to change your 703 someday. A mcintosh amp is the answer for anyone who tried everything that sound like an amplifier and wants to hear the right thing: music. I suggest you go on the mcintosh website and read the comments of mcintosh owners…. on any product! They all agree, now they say they hear music!. We don’t at XYZ store loan equipment to try at home, if you don’t want to bring in your speakers we can demonstrate the Mcintosh on an equivalent in price loudspeaker.

The reason why I want to hear everything is because I want to buy the right thing the first time. With that said I also don't want to spend money unnecessarily if my ears tell me the 6500 or 6900 is good enough and I don't hear the value in upgrading to something more expensive then I won't, but if there is a difference that I feel is necessary to have I splurge (but maybe not all at once)

Am I being unreasonable? Any suggestions?

PS: There is one other Mac dealer in my city but the salesperson there left me with a very bad first impression and having built such a good relationship with Henry he is my benchmark for good service and personality.

[saltwater]

I think what they are saying is your not up to there par....... I hate that.

[clarbin]

If you don't want to bring your speakers to the store because the may get damaged, why would you think they would look at their equipment any differently?

Kinda works both ways.

I own a retail store and I wouldn't send it out on approval either.

[g_georgi]

6 years ago I walked into store and bought a pair of $500 B&W 600's. Throughout the years I calculate that I've bought at least $6000-7000 worth of equipment from him (some of it was sold privately to finance upgrades).

My buying power as a lot lower back and this dealer knew that but he also knew that I'd eventually get a better paying job.

To get a response like that I imagine that business must be good at that store...two bad there's only 2 Mac dealers in town, in a city of almost 4 million I think 2 is too little.

For clarbin: You know what, if they would have at least ask that question then we could begin exploring options. I was open to idea of having them pre-auth my credit card and charging me the full price if any damage was done to their equipment. I know what I ask may be difficult but on the upside for them they could potentially make a larger sale and they would also score points in my book for any future upgrades...I know I said I wouldn't but who know what I'll be thinking 3-5 years from now.

[Daytripper]

Georgi do they have demo units of all the products that you want to audition?

If so take them up on their offer listen to each combination on similar priced speakers that you like, Then listen again with speakers that you may like to own in the future. Take your time and I think you will arrive at an answer and will purchase the combination that will make you happy for the long haul.

Although you will probably get the fever and upgrade again sooner than later a C220 and Mc252 or Mc275 will give flexability for future upgrades!

Good luck

Robert

[clarbin]

Don't take it personal.

He's just protecting his investment.

[g_georgi]

Hey Daytripper,

I could do that but in the case of the MC275 I'd have no way of knowing if it could drive my 703's to what I deem an acceptable level. Also the difference between the C220 and the MA6XXX might not be as apparent on my setup at home as I'm sure whatever source they have, even the cheap stuff, costs many times more than what I have. I'm also not exactly interested lugging my squeezebox, laptop and network hub and then spending 30 mins setting everything up.

Clarbin, I wrote a reply to your comment by editing a post above.

Imagine walking in to a premium car dealership (Mac's are no Honda Civics) and putting your chips on the table to show that you have the means to buy. You ask for a test drive and they best they can do is offer you a chance to take the car for a spin around the parking lot.

[howiebrou]

Your dealer's answer is at the very least annoying and arrogant to say the least. To say that the 6900 can drive any speaker and definitely has the sound you crave is ridiculous. You might not enjoy the mc house sound at all. And if you upgrade to MBL 101E 81db speakers then forget it!

I would have preferred them to leave options open, invite you in to demo all the equipment you want, see ifyou like the house sound and then go from there, possible getting you to swipe your cc if you need to home demo. But all this can be discussed later. They should be able to determine whether it is worth their while when you go into demo.

[grumpy]

Its very common among audio dealers to allow potential customers to home audition equipment. I would just keep looking for another dealer.

[g_georgi]

There's only one other dealer in my city and they only have demo units for a handful of products. I don't like the sales person there but if they are willing to accommodate me I'll need to re-exam.

But if in-store demoing is the only option offered here, it would be much more to my benefit to drive down across border to the nearest dealer and listen/buy from there. I'd save a bundle in both lower selling prices and little-to-no sales tax.

[Daytripper]

I am a little mixed up A higher quality source should help you discern the differences in your audition choices.
Have you considered that that maybe the harshness in your system may be your speakers. Listening to different brand amps and speakers may be enlightening.

If power is what you worry about a mc252 will fit the bill there.


Robert

[g_georgi]

Maybe but most people here seem to think the C220/C2200 + MC275 is the bees knees.

As for the source, maybe with my source the difference between a 6900 and something more expensive won't be as noticeable. I don't plan on every changing my source as it has made my life infinitely more convenient...no more cd swapping

[Daytripper]

I would have a hard time spending my money in a store I do not like, especially if I had bought there already. I think you will be taking a drive, I know I would.

Robert

[Daytripper]

A squeeze box through a mda 1000 and lossless would be capable of very high quality, for all we know HQ D/a converters may be cheap in future and way better tyo boot!

Robert

[Daytripper]

Maybe but most people here seem to think the C220/C2200 + MC275 is the bees knees.

Yes they do, I like my mc402, many consider the 501's nirvana others 1201's
and so on. It is what you like that matters!

Many of the people here are so far out on the cost performance curve that any upgrade is tiny at best but to them it is worth every cent! I don't have any problem with that.

Robert

[Victor]

If they won't let you do a home demo, you should spend some major time in the store listening. Then when you find what you think you want, see if they will give you a 30 day return guaranty with no questions asked. That seems reasonable to me.

By the way, my first McIntosh was a C2200 which replaced my old NAD preamp. I was able to do a home demo on the C2200. An hour after I got the C2200 home to compare with my NAD preamp I ordered one. The C2200 was a HUGE improvement over the NAD in every way.

Victor

[dirtbag]

The basic problem is, jf you don't buy it, somebody else will.
The other basic problem is, as men and as audiophiles, we obsess way too much.
I spent months obsessing. But once I bought something I realized that I could have been listening to music all that time.

Just buy something, it's all good.

[koslekt1]

It is sad that McIntosh allows these less than stellar places to represent their brand. While there are great dealers out there, they are amazingly few. The place might be trying to protect their equipment, but what about their REPUTATION?

With few exceptions, there shouldn't be any piece of equipment that is more valuable than the customer who might buy it (along with the other pieces that would be sold if there was a good relationship!)

Sounds like a drive is in order! :yes:

[Gaucho1]

The basic problem is, jf you don't buy it, somebody else will.
The other basic problem is, as men and as audiophiles, we obsess way too much.
I spent months obsessing. But once I bought something I realized that I could have been listening to music all that time.

Just buy something, it's all good.

I tend to agree with this. I'm fortunate enough to be able to have my dealer configure my system at his shop for me to demo new components, however. The one time I brought some speakers home for demo, I didn't buy them.

I've also discovered that many dealers don't have the patience for audiophilia nervosa.

[rektek]

2 dealers in my area, SF dealer no home demo but they have a lovely store and you can listen, bring your speakers whatever. a smaller dealer 15 miles away allows home demo so it's just a matter of store policy.

Car dealers will let you take a $30k car home for the night, if I owned a audio store with MC I'd probably take case by case, whatever it takes to make a happy Mcintosh customer

[masterlu]

Its very common among audio dealers to allow potential customers to home audition equipment. I would just keep looking for another dealer.

Yup, :yes:

[Mark W.]

What security do you offer this dealer who doesn't know you from Mosses for how many dollar of gear in your home out of their control.

As to your analogy of the car dealer. I have test drove a lot of cars many I could not have afforded. I work next to an area with 6 large car dealers and I see test drives all the time. And I can say I have never ever not once ever seen a dealer allow a test drive of a new or used car without a salesman along as ballast.

I used to make hand made knives for a living an average hunting knife cost about $150.00 and ranged up to around $250.00 dollars I would have never in the 14 years I made my living have lent out without a 100% deposit (read sale) one of my knives so some guy could see how he liked skinning an elk with it.

I would suggest you either hump your gear to the dealer and set it up. Or buy the gear and make sure they have a return policy.

[beemer]

Here in Massachusetts, the dealers that I do business with allow home trials.
You are spot-on in wanting to hear the equipment in your home on your existing components you plan to use with the new equipment. No amount of in-store listening will substitute for that.

I'd find another more accomodating dealer. Offer to have them swipe a CC with sufficient balance to cover the cost of the piece(s) you would like to take home. That way they are covered and you get a listen.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

[PHC1]

While I used to just come in and borrow any equipment I wanted to audition at home from a very well stocked, experienced and accommodating dealer even without payment up front before, it is unreasonable to expect the same treatment from a dealer who doesn't know you. It is however reasonable to ask for a home audition on a piece of gear that the dealer has as a demo unit with a CC swipe as a form of security. If the dealer is not willing to at least do that for you, you don't want to do business with him anyway. :no:

[cougit25]

You are spot-on in wanting to hear the equipment in your home on your existing components you plan to use with the new equipment. No amount of in-store listening will substitute for that.

I'd find another more accomodating dealer. Offer to have them swipe a CC with sufficient balance to cover the cost of the piece(s) you would like to take home. That way they are covered and you get a listen.

Best, Paul :thmbsp:

Amen to that!!! :yes:

[clarbin]

I'd find another more accomodating dealer. Offer to have them swipe a CC with sufficient balance to cover the cost of the piece(s) you would like to take home. That way they are covered and you get a listen.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

Ok - just for a minute put yourselves in the store owners shoes for a minute.

What units would you lend out?

Would you let him take your floor samples? If you did this then you might lose more than one sale by not having them on the shelf to demo.

Would you let him take new, boxed units? If you did this then you could not sell them "as new" and would have to take a hit when you do sell them.

Would you have dedicated demo units? If you did this then your inventory cost would be insane.

There is no easy solution in the store owners eyes. Especially in todays crapped out economy.

A lot of retailers are doing just about everything they can to stay afloat.

[pwhartman]

Ok - just for a minute put yourselves in the store owners shoes for a minute.

What units would you lend out?

Would you let him take your floor samples? If you did this then you might lose more than one sale by not having them on the shelf to demo.

Would you let him take new, boxed units? If you did this then you could not sell them "as new" and would have to take a hit when you do sell them.

Would you have dedicated demo units? If you did this then your inventory cost would be insane.

There is no easy solution in the store owners eyes. Especially in todays crapped out economy.

A lot of retailers are doing just about everything they can to stay afloat.

When I demo units from my local dealer they are always floor samples and I borrow them late on Saturday and return them Monday as early as possible (they are closed on Sunday). That way I have the equipment for basically two days - plenty of time to make a decision without much risk of the dealer losing a sale because he doesn't have a floor sample.

[mg16listener]

The core problem at the end of the day is this hobby is not what it used to be. There were times when you could establish a relationship with an owner of a store and you could in fact audition the equipment at home.

Not so anymore. The industry has shifted away from the smaller but great stores to these variations on corporate entities that are just plain terrible. All they are interested in is selling large home theater systems for custom homes. You are considered a small time customer if you spend only $50,000 on a system and even then they will just show photos in a catalog.

It is sad to see it but while you can find and purchase quality audio systems the hi-fi industry as a whole has taken such a turn it has almost become uninteresting to me. I live in a medium sized city (pushing a million), and all but one of the stereo stores have closed up shop and the one running is not the one you want to shop with. The arrogance is staggering.

I agree with the original poster and feel that after establishing a relationship with a dealer, if they do not know by a certain point you are not a fly-by-night customer then you never really had a good relationship with that dealer. You are just another dollar sign. They have to put up with more crap from you to make a sale but in the end they really just do not care.

I know you might want to get something new but you might just want to walk away for a while. I would. Why help them when they are really not wiling to help you?

Dealers it is time to wake up. The days of your 100K dollar plus systems for the million dollar homes are soon coming to and end and you will want customers willing to spend 10K on a stereo but they are not to be found because you ran them off with arrogance and lack of insight!

[beemer]

Ok - just for a minute put yourselves in the store owners shoes for a minute.

What units would you lend out?

Would you let him take your floor samples? If you did this then you might lose more than one sale by not having them on the shelf to demo.

Would you let him take new, boxed units? If you did this then you could not sell them "as new" and would have to take a hit when you do sell them.

Would you have dedicated demo units? If you did this then your inventory cost would be insane.

There is no easy solution in the store owners eyes. Especially in todays crapped out economy.

A lot of retailers are doing just about everything they can to stay afloat.

As I said before.....an accomodating dealer loans out his floor inventory.
The dealers local to me who do this are having no shortage of sales. It's called good customer service. As another poster said the usual loan-out time is Saturday eve to Monday.

Those stores willing to do what it takes appear to be prospering to me, I walk in and there are boxes of pre-sold new equipment in the common area waiting to be picked up.

Brick and Mortar stores today need go the extra mile what with the Internet.

Good customer service brings them back. In-home trial is good customer service.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

[clarbin]

I own a small high end appliance store so I know what going to battle with the big box stores is all about, I live it everyday.

With that being said, I would still have a hard time letting someone out of the store with 10K worth of merchandise for a weekend test drive.

Do you think it would be a happy ending for all if I had to charge his credit card because he screwed something up. Especially if he didn't want it after the test drive?

I don't think so.

[salm]

I have a really good local dealer (non-Mac) who has let me borrow stuff to audition at home on many occasions. Typically I'll pick something up ay closing time on a Sat and then return on Tues, he's closed Sun and Mon. but this is a dealer i have done business with for a dozen or more years and who has been to my home several times to hear not only my existing geat but some of his gear in my system. I think it's all a matter of trust. Obviously I sympathize with our desires as potential customers, but at the same time I can certainly understand a dealer being hesitant with someone unkown to them. Not an easy decision to make if you're in the business.

[beemer]

I own a small high end appliance store so I know what going to battle with the big box stores is all about, I live it everyday.

With that being said, I would still have a hard time letting someone out of the store with 10K worth of merchandise for a weekend test drive.

Do you think it would be a happy ending for all if I had to charge his credit card because he screwed something up. Especially if he didn't want it after the test drive?

I don't think so.

Only you can make that call. My dollars go to the stores that accomodate me.

Good communication and understanding of terms goes a long way. Of course, unlike many in today's world......I am responsible for my actions. If I damaged the store owner's goods it would be my responsibility to make it right. That's what the CC swipe is about......

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

[clarbin]

Only you can make that call. My dollars go to the stores that accomodate me.

Good communication and understanding of terms goes a long way. Of course, unlike many in today's world......I am responsible for my actions. If I damaged the store owner's goods it would be my responsibility to make it right. That's what the CC swipe is about......

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:

You may be that one customer that understands all the ramifications of the transaction or test drive, but believe me, you would be the exception to the rule. Most people would not tell you they screwed something up unless it was cosmetic and obvious.

Way too many people out to get you if they had the chance.

[C220MC275]

I wrote a polite e-mail to the local Premier Mac dealer we have in our city (there's only one). I've done some light editing were I felt that I didn't want to say too much.



Here is response I got back (I lightly corrected some of the typos):



The reason why I want to hear everything is because I want to buy the right thing the first time. With that said I also don't want to spend money unnecessarily if my ears tell me the 6500 or 6900 is good enough and I don't hear the value in upgrading to something more expensive then I won't, but if there is a difference that I feel is necessary to have I splurge (but maybe not all at once)

Am I being unreasonable? Any suggestions?

PS: There is one other Mac dealer in my city but the salesperson there left me with a very bad first impression and having built such a good relationship with Henry he is my benchmark for good service and personality.

Hi g-Georgi,

This is my opinion :
you should rely on honest mac dealers and trust them.
I had the ability to try a 275 on my very difficult to drive ESL.
I got it at home during one month.
After one week, I knew this was "the amp" I have always been looking for. I ordered one.
When my Mac dealer came to deliver the 275, he brought with him a C45 for a test.
The C45 bumped my Linn Kairn SPSII. I knew I had to go with a Mac preamp.
I bought the C220 one year after I bought the 275, without hearing it before, because I was needing a balance control so the C45 was out of the game.
For my Mac dealer, a 220 / 275 is far superior to a MA6900.
Don't need to hear the 6900 : I trust him for 1000 reasons I don't have time to explicit. I had the money to buy up to 2 x501's : he urged me to take a 275 !! This guy is the only one I know, not looking for more money but ONLY for more customer satisfaction, because he knows what I like and he knows my speakers.

If you look for emotions, look no further than a 275.:yes::yes::yes: This amp is magic. You can trust thousands of happy users in the world ! Order one and use it with your NAD preamp.
When you'll have the money, buy a Mac preamp. (Ask your dealer to bring one for test when he will deliver the 275 - he will do that for sure - : so you'll have a precise idea of what it will be in your home ).
Don't be affraid of the " low" power rated of the 275 : this amp could drive very loudly almost everything : it drives my 86 dB ESL's, very, very loud, more than Accuphase 500 W monoblocks, more than a Mac 252, 352 and a 402 !
The panels go very very loud, and they NEVER flash : that's the sign of a complete control of the amp.

Good luck

Jérôme

[salm]

Hi g-Georgi,


When my Mac dealer came to deliver the 275, he brought with him a C45 for a test.
The C45 bumped my Linn Kairn SPSII. I knew I had to go with a Mac preamp.
I bought the C220 one year after I bought the 275, without hearing it before, because I was needing a balance control so the C45 was out of the game.


Jérôme

Hi Jerome,
Not sure how long ago it was that you auditioned the C45 preamp but I have had one in my system for over a year and it has balance control. It's one of the trim functions and I can actually adjust L/R balance via the remote control. You can also adjust the level of the subwoofer output with the remote. The C45 you heard may have been an older version, the one I have has software version 1.02.

Sal

[hpsenicka]

You seriously expected the dealer to ante up expensive demo gear based on an e-mail request?

How about making an effort to visit his shop and talk to him, establish a bit of a relationship and demonstrate your serious intent.... then pop the question.

[Laemmle]

Jerome,

I doubt the 275 will produce SPL's in excess of the 252, 352, and the 402...it may be dynamic as all hell but there is no way it trounced the aforementioned ss amps!





Hi g-Georgi,

This is my opinion :
you should rely on honest mac dealers and trust them.
I had the ability to try a 275 on my very difficult to drive ESL.
I got it at home during one month.
After one week, I knew this was "the amp" I have always been looking for. I ordered one.
When my Mac dealer came to deliver the 275, he brought with him a C45 for a test.
The C45 bumped my Linn Kairn SPSII. I knew I had to go with a Mac preamp.
I bought the C220 one year after I bought the 275, without hearing it before, because I was needing a balance control so the C45 was out of the game.
For my Mac dealer, a 220 / 275 is far superior to a MA6900.
Don't need to hear the 6900 : I trust him for 1000 reasons I don't have time to explicit. I had the money to buy up to 2 x501's : he urged me to take a 275 !! This guy is the only one I know, not looking for more money but ONLY for more customer satisfaction, because he knows what I like and he knows my speakers.

If you look for emotions, look no further than a 275.:yes::yes::yes: This amp is magic. You can trust thousands of happy users in the world ! Order one and use it with your NAD preamp.
When you'll have the money, buy a Mac preamp. (Ask your dealer to bring one for test when he will deliver the 275 - he will do that for sure - : so you'll have a precise idea of what it will be in your home ).
Don't be affraid of the " low" power rated of the 275 : this amp could drive very loudly almost everything : it drives my 86 dB ESL's, very, very loud, more than Accuphase 500 W monoblocks, more than a Mac 252, 352 and a 402 !
The panels go very very loud, and they NEVER flash : that's the sign of a complete control of the amp.

Good luck

Jérôme

[masterlu]

You seriously expected the dealer to ante up expensive demo gear based on an e-mail request?

How about making an effort to visit his shop and talk to him, establish a bit of a relationship and demonstrate your serious intent.... then pop the question.


Yes, you must meet the Dealer & convey interest and confidence in purchasing the gear if it meets with your approval.

I have walked in cold to an unknown Mercedes Dealer, wasn't really dressed appropriately. Talked the Talk, dropped some names & had them spot me a new car for the weekend to check out.

You can't tell squat on a test drive. If they don't, who cares; another one will.

Serge, Ferrari doesn't do this :(, but Porsche & Lamborghini do! But you probably know this by now.

[Victor]

You seriously expected the dealer to ante up expensive demo gear based on an e-mail request?

How about making an effort to visit his shop and talk to him, establish a bit of a relationship and demonstrate your serious intent.... then pop the question.

Excellent point. My dealer will almost always lend out gear for home demo if you are serious. But he would not commit to lending out anything from an email or phone call.

If you go into the store and listen for an hour or two and tell the dealer you are close to making a purchase decision he just may let you do a home demo.

Victor

[PHC1]

Serge, Ferrari doesn't do this :(,
Yeah, I don't blame them. :D
http://urbandiner.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/ferris_bueller.jpg
http://img015.photo.wangyou.com/2004/12/11/35990/200511268706274.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/95208518_b4a3c5637a_m.jpg

[masterlu]

Yeah, I don't blame them. :D
http://urbandiner.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/ferris_bueller.jpg
http://img015.photo.wangyou.com/2004/12/11/35990/200511268706274.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/95208518_b4a3c5637a_m.jpg

What a Classic clip from an all time Fav!

[Kevin M.]

You seriously expected the dealer to ante up expensive demo gear based on an e-mail request?

How about making an effort to visit his shop and talk to him, establish a bit of a relationship and demonstrate your serious intent.... then pop the question.

That's what I was thinking too.

[PHC1]

What a Classic clip from an all time Fav!
Think you'll ever get into vintage Ferrari? I find myself stragely attracted to vintage cars lately and enjoy scenic drives at a moderate pace just as much as I used to enjoy tearing up the backroads. :dunno: I could see myself really enjoying a vintage Ferrari 275/330/365 on a nice sunday drive, not that I could ever afford any of those.... :tears:

[masterlu]

Think you'll ever get into vintage Ferrari? I find myself stragely attracted to vintage cars lately and enjoy scenic drives at a moderate pace just as much as I used to enjoy tearing up the backroads. :dunno: I could see myself really enjoying a vintage Ferrari 275/330/365 on a nice sunday drive, not that I could ever afford any of those.... :tears:

Sorry, but Vintage just doesn't do it for me. Unless its an Enzo.

[howiebrou]

Think you'll ever get into vintage Ferrari? I find myself stragely attracted to vintage cars lately and enjoy scenic drives at a moderate pace just as much as I used to enjoy tearing up the backroads. :dunno: I could see myself really enjoying a vintage Ferrari 275/330/365 on a nice sunday drive, not that I could ever afford any of those.... :tears:

Getting old...........:rolleyes:

[PHC1]

Getting old...........:rolleyes:
That's what I am afraid of. :D
http://www.oldmansimpson.com/pics/grabpics/grampa10.gif

[C220MC275]

Jerome,

I doubt the 275 will produce SPL's in excess of the 252, 352, and the 402...it may be dynamic as all hell but there is no way it trounced the aforementioned ss amps!

Hi Laemmle,

What is SPL ? ( I'm french....).
On my ESL speakers, we tried 275, 252, 352 and 402. We also tried Accuphase 500 W monoblocks and a big Plinius. Also a pair of Audiolab 8000MX ( first generation, made in GB, and not in China)
Only the 275 was able to reach volume 80 on the C220 without making the pannels flashing. The sound was not only more dynamic with the 275, it was also louder, measured by a dB sonometer !! I share only what I know for sure.
This experience with ESL speakers, driven better by "small " tubes amps than BIG SS amps, have been extensively described, in reviews, forums. Ask Quad, Final and other ESL manufacturers to see what kind of amps they recommend : you'll be very surprised !

Best Regards

Jérôme

[C220MC275]

Hi Jerome,
Not sure how long ago it was that you auditioned the C45 preamp but I have had one in my system for over a year and it has balance control. It's one of the trim functions and I can actually adjust L/R balance via the remote control. You can also adjust the level of the subwoofer output with the remote. The C45 you heard may have been an older version, the one I have has software version 1.02.

Sal

Hi Salm,

I auditioned the C45 one year and half ago. So yes, it must have been an older version.
Thanks for the info ! it's very interesting. Actually I have now my 220 and won't change for a C45, even if I miss the tuner module option of the 45 !!!
I never change the volume on my Sub : using it only for Hi-Fi, the sound is always pleasing. I think that if your sub is well set-up, you should not have to modify its volume. But I use sometimes the tone controls of the 220 so I recognize that on some recordings, a simple equalizing of high and low frequencies is needed...

Thanks again !!

Jerome

[masterlu]

Hi Laemmle,

What is SPL ? ( I'm french....).
On my ESL speakers, we tried 275, 252, 352 and 402. We also tried Accuphase 500 W monoblocks and a big Plinius. Also a pair of Audiolab 8000MX ( first generation, made in GB, and not in China)
Only the 275 was able to reach volume 80 on the C220 without making the pannels flashing. The sound was not only more dynamic with the 275, it was also louder, measured by a dB sonometer !! I share only what I know for sure.
This experience with ESL speakers, driven better by "small " tubes amps than BIG SS amps, have been extensively described, in reviews, forums. Ask Quad, Final and other ESL manufacturers to see what kind of amps they recommend : you'll be very surprised !

Best Regards

Jérôme


SPL, means Sound Pressure Level.

[salm]

Hi Salm,

I auditioned the C45 one year and half ago. So yes, it must have been an older version.
Thanks for the info ! it's very interesting. Actually I have now my 220 and won't change for a C45, even if I miss the tuner module option of the 45 !!!
I never change the volume on my Sub : using it only for Hi-Fi, the sound is always pleasing. I think that if your sub is well set-up, you should not have to modify its volume. But I use sometimes the tone controls of the 220 so I recognize that on some recordings, a simple equalizing of high and low frequencies is needed...

Thanks again !!

Jerome

I usually only adjust the sub for movies, I crank it up for bigger "bangs". :D The zero setting is my default for music. I was initially very excited to have the tone controls, but over time I've come to realize I don't use them all that often.