How does a young man get ahead today?

[winters860]

And I mean in a less general way than "Hard work and perserverance!"

Let me explain my situation: I'm 25. In college, I sort of fell into English Literature because it was interesting and I was good at it. I went to a fairly run-of-the-mill state school and realized that nobody was going to pay me to write book reports, but I felt like I wouldn't have a hard time finding a paying job when I graduated.

I was wrong. Many people tried to tell me this, but I guess that's how wisdom is acquired. My skill set is, basically, that I'm literate and college-educated. The pool of people who went to school and got degrees in basically useless subjects while acquiring the same skill set is large.

From a standpoint of future financial stability, I feel like I'd have been much better off learning a trade. I now believe that in spending five years on my liberal arts BA I sqandered a great opportunity. The job prospects in my area are bleak, and I don't think the solution is putting off the problem by getting a Master's Degree in Lit. I'm not opposed to more education, but I have no money, no usable credit, and no one to co-sign on a loan.

I'm humbly asking for advice. If you were a young man such as myself, how would you set about earning a decent living? I don't ever expect to be rich, but I'd one day like to own a house on a little bit of land, maybe have a family, and be able to "get by" a little better that my folks have done. Right now, those goals seem awful far away. Can anyone suggest a way up?

[Grainger49]

And you did the same thing I did in college. I got a degree without asking, "what career does this prepare me for?"

I went back to school, one year older than you, and got an Engineering degree.

Sorry, true for me. No offense meant, I was there too!

[OvenMaster]

Anyone I knew with an English Lit degree or similar became a high school English teacher, Winters. There's also journalism, news writing, or even being an author.

http://education-portal.com/english_literature_schools.html

"Careers for English Language and Literature Majors

English Language and Literature is a concentration that may be found under English Language. Adults who choose to focus in this field may want to become an English Teacher. Depending on the amount of education, an adult may want to become a preschool, kindergarten, elementary, middle or secondary teacher. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, www.bls.gov, most public school teachers must have at least a bachelor's degree, and be licensed. Courses in English language and Literature may be offered at schools colleges or universities.

Furthermore, adults may be interested in becoming a teacher because the job outlook for teachers seems promising. Teachers may look forward to excellent job opportunities. The career is expected to grow as a number of teachers retire over the next 10 years, particularly at the secondary school level (BLS). "

There's also this: http://www.artsci.washington.edu/news/WinterSpring06/EnglishDegree.htm

I wish you well, my friend.

Tom

[Fisherdude]

Well, not that it's going to make you feel any better, but you probably know you're not alone. My best golf bud has his BA in History. He's been selling medical equipment for the last 20 years. Making good money, too.

Maybe my own personal history will give you something to think about. I was always interested in electronics. I was building little projects and listening to shortwave radio from the time I was 12. I was a senior finishing my BSEE when the military service thing got in the way. I have a knack for languages, so I ended up as a Russian interpreter and military intelligence analyst. Seemed like a much better idea compared to dragging an M-16 through the rice paddies of southeast Asia. So, after I got out, I finished my degree in Russian Language and Literature. With the most amazing list of math & hard science electives!

Ended up working for Mickey D's, and after a few years they were looking for somebody with an operations background to move into the technology area...and I ended up as a senior I/T director.

Think beyond the fact that you love to read and to write. What do you like to read about? Write about? Every business entity on earth is floating on paperwork that somebody wrote. Ever give any thought to getting into technical writing in the audio/video/HT world? Think you could do a better job than the guy in Beijing who's writing the user manuals now?

Do some soul-searching, and try to find out what you really would love to do. Think about what your fantasy life would be like. How could you leverage your education in order to try to make that life real? I agree that just spending more time hiding in college isn't the right thing to do, but don't eliminate the possibility of a second BA, or a certificate, or getting your MA in a different, but related field. For example, I could have gone from my BA in languages to an MA in Linguistics, if the thought of that hadn't terrified me.

I'm sure there will be lot if interesting ideas in this thread, so do some brainstorming!

Clay

[wajobu]

This will be a short response and hopefully one of many.

Think about what interests you, what you enjoy doing and perhaps there is a career path in that. There are many career paths in demand, like nursing (not a suggestion, just an example).

It may take some time and involve working part-time and being a student part-time. There are some college-based cooperative work programs.

I understand your dilemma.

[gearhound]

I graduated Univ. of Maryland (1975) with a Social Studies in Sec. Ed. degree.
Taught high school for one year.
Hated it!!
Spent the last three decades repairing electric/electronic equipment on trains.
They hired me because of my previous US Army Signal School experience!?
Life's funny...........go figure?

Steve

[Kaffeen]

Just some miscellaneous ramblings here...

I think a Liberal Arts degee can prepare folks for the world a lot better than it's credited with. It depends on the person and what you do with it. IMO, a degree in English Lit would be a great foot in the door for a Tech Writer. It's what I just started doing after a decade of work for which I have little talent or patience. I understand it's a growth sector. And it's not a bad way to make a living.

A gal I work with who has a degree in English is now the New Hire Trainer - a respectable, salaried position. She started at the entry level but her boss (and mine) recognized her talent for organization and also her excellent writing and speaking skills, so she was promoted.

Something to think about.

[bordeno]

I'll second the thought about being a teacher. Lots of time off. When you get older, you'll realize the value of that. My wife has a teacher's schedule (is a speech pathologist for a school system) and gets tons of time off. Plus once in the employ of the school system THEY can pay for your graduate degree.

Writing is another good suggestion. I enjoy writing, my father and grandfather were both writers. You might have to intern at a paper or something, but you're young.

Whatever you come up with, don't worry about it. That's easy for me to say, but obsessing over it can lead you down the wrong path. And don't cut yourself short saying you don't expect to be rich. You most certainly can be rich if you want it badly enough.

Keep us apprised of your journey, and best of luck.

[skippy_ps]

I don't know anyone with a "general degree" that's working in a career path job. I suppose that some of the larger national companies like AT&T, just to pick one, and the larger utilities higher college grads with a general degrees but you'd probably have to get to know someone, even a little bit, to get your foot in the door and get hired. You'd probably have to do some fairly low level work for a year or so before you got going with the management group.

Or, you could go back and take some upper division finance and businees courses or engineering courses and go that route.

Murray

[RichPA]

I'm a college professor, and talk to liberal arts students (mostly psychology majors, my field) all the time about stuff like this. Things to think about:

- What are your skills? At least, writing and editing, right? There are jobs out there for writers. My sister has an MFA in poetry, possibly even less marketable than your degree, and she has a great job, working as a writer for the development office at a university (telecommuting, too) and doing a little freelance stuff

- Look for an internship. Volunteer internships are great, if you can afford them (being a volunteer doesn't pay) - gets you some experience, some recommendations, adds to your skill set. Or just volunteers some place - you'll meet people, add experience, and get started on networking.

- As others have said, think about what you like to do, and what kinds of jobs let you do that.

- Be frugal for now, don't let spending habits get you committed to low-level jobs you don't want to continue.

[pilotputz]

Hey, winters860!
I am in the EXACT same boat as you except for the fact that I'm 8 years older than you. I got my BA in English Composition and minored in French at the University of Kansas. After college I wasn't able to find anything in my field and ended up tending bar in the toollywhackers of Northern California.

I believe the truth of the matter is: It's not what you know but who you know. I have known SO many people over the years that came into successful careers and good money because they had a cousin or an uncle who gave them a start in such and such field. I don't mean to sound horribly pessimistic, but I believe that we have all been sold on the concept that ambition breeds success and education is everything; while in reality, a tremendously large part of success is simply luck: Being in the right place at the right time.
My advice is to keep slugging it out. Take each day as it comes at you; try your best at making the life that you'd like to have and hope that something good will come your way.

I apologize if that sounds terribly trite!!

One more thing: If I were a decade younger and minus my three kitty cats, I'd join the frickin' Peace Corps and get the hell out of the US for a while. You have yourself a bit of education; maybe a bit of travel will give you that added bit of perspective that may just point you in the direction you're meant to go. GOOD LUCK!!!

[MikeCh]

winters,

Where in Ohio are you located. The phone company I work with is always looking for good people, in all facets of the business....I could help point you to some options if you're located in one of our serving areas in Ohio. Shoot me a PM.

For the life of me, I never thought I'd be working for a phone company after being steeped in 13 years of architectural design in the "city" doing both IT work and architectural job captain kinda stuff....but shit happens and after 911 the arch businesses in the city slowed way down. I started looking at everything IT, everywhere and found this opportunity in the mountains.

Though working as a cog in a huge corporate entity has it's downfalls, there are many +'s too.

Good luck man.

Mike

[jerrymrc]

Everything said is good advise. I will key in on one statement.From a standpoint of future financial stability

I am afraid there is not much stability in the job market compared to 20-30 years ago. There are fields (as mentioned) that are stable but have you ever thought about a job on the City/State/Federal level?

The pay might not be top dollar when compared to the other side of the fence but many times the benefits outweigh this.

I will retire at 56 with a good income for the rest of my life.

Just a thought.

[onepixel]

Get creative!

There are a zillion markets. Here is a great resource. I'm sure there is a more current version of this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Writers-Handbook-2005/dp/0871162121

Go see the world. Teach English. I have couple of friends that taught English. One in Japan and one in Chile.

Change your attitude. Follow your dreams and aspire to greatness.

[shrinkboy]

i graduated university of dallas in 1975 in psych, having put myself through a very well known and well thought of liberal arts university. there were not many of us who did it by going to school in the morning and working hard in the evening. i could stand it because i thought i was being polished to enter the ph.d. program in psych, based on non stop feedback from faculty.

i was not admitted, a decision made in the 11th hour and apparently with much gnashing of teeth. i was crushed, stuck with a liberal arts degree that made me really good at reading arcane, difficult european philosophy and psychology. i was highly skilled at reading and writing. like you winters.

um, i eventually was admitted to duquesne university, where i obtained a masters degree in psych. i came back to texas and slugged it out on the mental health battlefield, eventually abandoning the idea of a doctorate. i started a private practice in the time honored way -- by declaring myself in business and then going out there and marketing, speaking and publicizing. i've been at it for thirty years now.

i am pretty sure i detect a copy writer/editor/publicist/advertising writer/technical writer in your post.

you take your skill, declare yourself to be an expert in that field, and then get about the business of locating the work. say yes to anything that sounds remotely like a possibility. take it a day at a time, let go of the notion of the big aha! moment, and go to work. you're a writer, so write. it won't happen this month, this year, even this decade, but in thirty years or so, you'll look up and go, hey! i've been at this gig one way or another for the last thirty years!!

[Scorpion8]

There are a huge number of jobs in your field, just waiting for the perfect candidate. You need to (a) not limit yourself, as sometimes the job will appear not suited for you but if you believe you can do it, then go for it. Sell yourself; (b) use your background as proven-performance, rather than selling yourself on potential. Potential is great, but many employers will pick proven performance over potential many times. It's a safer bet; (c) take any job, with any possibility of moving up. The workforce is graying, and opportunities open.

Or, you can do what we advised all liberal arts majors to do when I was in college: either learn the phrase You want fries wid dat?, or join the military as an grunt infantryman, see the world, meet foreign exotic people and kill them. :D

[Yamaha Nutz]

Well I started out in Accounting/Management w/B.S. and now end up doing Logistics. It is still a numbers game, but I find this as fascinating as putting a puzzle together.

POINT: Don't let your Major deter your from locating an occupation that is both finanically and intrinsically rewarding. YOU just have to find the opportunities, which are harder today IMHO. (unless you are in a critical field, and highly sought). Maybe you can use your skills sets/knowledge in other fields.

Hang in there, and don't give up the ship. Keep pushing ahead, and don't let the rejection set you back. If you have that much to offer, it is their loss, NOT YOURS. You can't fight City Hall, and many companies are more interested in character profiles and Labor Law compliance as opposed to knowledge these days.

[bordeno]

Hey, winters860!
I am in the EXACT same boat as you except for the fact that I'm 8 years older than you. I got my BA in English Composition and minored in French at the University of Kansas. After college I wasn't able to find anything in my field and ended up tending bar in the toollywhackers of Northern California.

I believe the truth of the matter is: It's not what you know but who you know. I have known SO many people over the years that came into successful careers and good money because they had a cousin or an uncle who gave them a start in such and such field. I don't mean to sound horribly pessimistic, but I believe that we have all been sold on the concept that ambition breeds success and education is everything; while in reality, a tremendously large part of success is simply luck: Being in the right place at the right time.
My advice is to keep slugging it out. Take each day as it comes at you; try your best at making the life that you'd like to have and hope that something good will come your way.

I apologize if that sounds terribly trite!!

One more thing: If I were a decade younger and minus my three kitty cats, I'd join the frickin' Peace Corps and get the hell out of the US for a while. You have yourself a bit of education; maybe a bit of travel will give you that added bit of perspective that may just point you in the direction you're meant to go. GOOD LUCK!!!


Isn't this the truth? You can spend hours and days applying for jobs online and you'll be lucky to get one interview, unless you know someone, in which case, you probably wouldn't have to apply online. You have the degree, which is a ticket, as long as you know someone. So the question becomes, how do you get to know someone? Good question, there's alot of advice on networking to be found. Too bad you can't pay to know someone, like you do for a degree.

I would check out job fairs. Not sure about English majors, but as a finance major I just went to a fair a couple of weeks ago and got several good leads. It looks like it will lead to at least two interviews, one of which is highly desirable. The only interview I got from applying online was for a spot I was overqualified for, though one I might have taken at your age.

By the way, since folks have mentioned the Peace Corps and the Military, I have to give props to my choice which is the Merchant Marines. I've been out of that industry for ten years but the money is far better than the other two combined, plus you travel alot. As long as you don't mind spending alot of time on ships...

Keep us posted on how you do.

[Yamaha Nutz]

A term called "networking", knowing people that know you and what you can offer.

Use your college frat brothers, organizational participation, or any other activities that you are involved in to help propel you to the next level. Promote your success stories and focus on your strengths.

I've been there, done that, and @ 51, just glad I don't face these problems.
What I must worry about is the "getting too old, and set to pasture" issue.
(forced early retirement to save cost).

There is NO loyalty in big business, and very little in small business these days. Folks, it isn't getting any easier either.

[skippy_ps]

A term called "networking", knowing people that know you and what you can offer.

Use your college frat brothers, organizational participation, or any other activities that you are involved in to help propel you to the next level. Promote your success stories and focus on your strengths.
+1

Murray

[rroobbcc]

From my observations I have come to the following conclusions... If you want to make good money you need to be "world class" at whatever you do. Companies pay world class dollars for world class performance, not for some piece of paper that says you finished a bunch of college classes. A degree might open some doors, but ultimately it is your performance that establishes your reputation and allows you to demand top dollar. Even as a cook you can make a lot of money if you are "world class" (think about Jamie Oliver).

So how do you become world class? Well hard work is definitely a big part of it, but there is more to it than that. My observations lead me to believe that the real key is PASSION. If you are not passionate about what you are doing, you will NEVER put in the work necessary to become world class. When your have a passion for what you are doing, it is no longer work... it is a hobby! A hobby that you just happen to get paid for!!! And the better you are at your "hobby", the more you are typically paid. So the real question is what are you passionate about? Once you know your passion, you can then start to identify a path to future success.


Now for a few things that you might not want to hear, but which I believe can be valuable bits of advice...

1. You are going to need hardwork and perserverance. Success doesn't happen overnight. (NOTE: the following is not an attempt to "show off", but rather to try to illustrate some key points) You are already a leg up on me, in that at least you have a degree. I had no financial means to attend college after high school, so I joined the Army. Fortunately I did very well on the ASVAB (98th percentile). I got into Military Intelligence school for electronics and finished as Distiguished Honor Graduate. I also always had a passion for computers in high school, and wrote some software. So here is my progression from my last year in the Army until today (dollar figures are approx as I don't remember them all):

1992 - Last year in the Army - $14,000
1993 - Radio Shack (yeah the store) - $15,000
1994 - Pulling cable for a company that installed computers in hospitals - $8.00/hr.
1995 - Purchasing for same company (8 months) - $22,000 annual salary
- Support helpdesk for a software company - $14.50/hr.
1996 - Moved to Germany with above software company to start German office and support distributors - $45,000 annual salary
1997 - Back in the US with same company to work in starting the professional services group - $65,000 annual salary
1998 - Asked back to Germany by a UK company to help start their German office and run all non-sales operations - $80,000 annual salary
1999 - mid-year went back into software (my true love) for another US company getting started in Germany - $90,000 annual salary
2001 - product manager for same software company - $100,000+ annual salary
2002 - business development for same software company - $100,000+ annual salary
2005 - "CTO's personal "techie" for same software company - $100,000+ annual salary
2006 - software company bought by a fortune 50 company, still work for CTO - $100,000+ annual salary

BTW, I was married with two kids this whole time (actually my son was born in 1994). My wife has not worked since I got out of the Army. Well, she works, but it is raising the kids.

So as you can see it took me 5 years to get from the "poor house" ($14,000 in 1992) to having a bit of breathing room ($65,000 in 1997), and today I consider myself a "poster child" for being successful without a college degree. It didn't happen overnight, and I was working my butt off the whole time. You are likely going to have to be patient and put in the same kind of hard work.

2. You are probably going to have to humble yourself at some point and take some jobs you don't really want. When that happens, try to focus on things about that job which can help you later. Doing so will keep you engaged as a top performer, and will build your skills for the next step. I took the job at Radio Shack because it was all that was available. However, I learned A LOT of great skills there. I learned how to sell, how to listen to the customers' needs and find a product/solution that meet those needs. I became very comfortable dealing with people. I learned about merchandising, and observed how targeted marketing can drive customers to certain products. I also learned about managing inventory, and what things like gross margin and P&L were all about. I made dirt for money, but the things I learned were far more valuable down the road. Those skills helped me in the purchasing job, and the skills from purchasing helped me later when I was supporting distributors in Germany, etc. etc. etc. My point is... EVERY job you take is a chance to perform and learn.


So here are a few more random points...

- You should always have a CAN DO attitude, but also beaware of your limits. You want to take on challenges, but not impossible tasks. Consistently chasing "stretch goals" will eventually lead to the impossible becoming possible.

- Two books that were a huge help to me are "First Break All The Rules", and the follow up "Now Find Your Strengths". READ THEM!!! There is another in this line "Go Put Your Strengths To Work", which I recently bought, but haven't read yet.

- Be honest with yourself about what you can and cannot do. The above books will teach you that to become "world class" you must leverage your strengths and manage around your weaknesses. This is a big key to being successful at the jobs you tackle.

- Don't be intimidated by people just because of their rank, title or position. If you want that big job, you will need to be able to speak confidently and comfortably with THE BIG BOSS (or the BIG customer). One thing that really helped me was the Army. When everyone's head is shaved and all are in the same uniform you realize that we aren't all that different. Radio Shack was another good experience in this regard. Another little trick I use is that whenever I have to deal with a "big wig", I just imagine them sitting on the toilet (seriously! but just for a second). Once you realize we all sit on the crapper the same way, it kinda humbles your view of everyone, and dealing with them confidently is less of an issue.

- Always remember that A JOB INTERVIEW IS A SALES EXERCISE!!! You are the salesman and you have a product to sell... YOU! Don't just listen to the interviewer and answer their questions. Ask some questions yourself. Learn what their requirements are and sell your talents and skills which meet those requirements. So much in life is about sales. Selling yourself to an employer. Selling yourself for a promotion. Selling a new idea or project to co-workers or management. EVERYONE needs sales skills, YOU TOO! The sooner you learn this, the more successful you will be. Boy, that job at Radio Shack was SOOOOOOO valuable to me.

- Whatever you do, always maintain your integrity. Once you loose it, it is hard to regain, especially in the eyes of your peers. There is a fine line between tact and lying. Be a straightshooter, but not rude or overagressive. You encounter people without much integrity. They may blossom in the short-term, but long-term it will come back to bite them. Ask the guys from Enron, MCI or even Martha Stewart if you don't believe me.

- And finally, support others. Just like in sports, the superstar who can do things by himself is valuable, but the one who makes the whole team better is much more so.


That is all I can think of for now. I hope you find at least a few tips to be valuable.

Rob

[rroobbcc]

Go see the world. Teach English. I have couple of friends that taught English. One in Japan and one in Chile.

Change your attitude. Follow your dreams and aspire to greatness.I was just reading through a few response that came in as I was writing mine, and this is a really good one. I went to Germany to really launch my career growth into high gear. It sounds like you could do something similiar.

[rroobbcc]

you take your skill, declare yourself to be an expert in that field, and then get about the business of locating the work. say yes to anything that sounds remotely like a possibility. take it a day at a time, let go of the notion of the big aha! moment, and go to work. you're a writer, so write. it won't happen this month, this year, even this decade, but in thirty years or so, you'll look up and go, hey! i've been at this gig one way or another for the last thirty years!!IMO, another piece of good advice!

[lorne]

Here are some thoughts and recollections. I hope that they round your view of a situation. In my opinion, today there is more opportunity than ever. But the people who will get the rewards and satisfaction will need to extend themselves past what they may have thought to be sufficient preparation. My own case may illustrate something about this:

In 1968 I had to decide what I was going to do. I had been trained to fly in the Canadian paramilitary. Was I going to struggle and scrounge in order to train myself up and become part of civil aviation? Or, was I going to go to university? Thousands of U.S. military veterans were returning to North America from Asia with excellent training and many hours flying operations. Air carriers were welcoming them. I wore glasses, and at that time this was a negative where the competition had me beaten on so many fronts. On the other hand, I was passionate about learning, so I went to university where I studied anthropology and graduated in history. It was a real fight, because I worked at the same time to finance the years I spent reading, writing and defending myself in tutorials and seminars. Years after I started I was exhausted, and I had not even started a career.

After graduation, I got told all over the place that my education was a dime a dozen sort of thing. A placement agency told me that they did not know what to do with me. The civil service was backed up with applications. Canada was in a perennial, alternating pattern of boom-bust-recession-stagflation. And I lived in a province where unemployment never fell below 9% and often hovered around 15%. I took to making a living doing all kinds of blue collar work. I should have gone to trades school.

I don't think that trades training is ever wasted. At the very least it is a back-up, and it may turn into a life of interesting work and worthy challenges. Some of the most intelligent and stimulating people I've ever met were on construction sites, in machine shops and other work places. Moreover, when a trade is added alongside academic training, you have an advantage over millions of others in your generation. Add fluency in a second language into the equation, and your attractiveness to trade and commerce begins to spike. So my message here is, take a break, get a day job doing something to pay for breakfast and go get some training in a speciality. And don’t despair. If things look bleak now, it is not fixed for the future. Things are always in flux — changing. Here is an example.

Some years after my graduation, a peculiar thing happened in Canada. It started in Toronto. Corporations began recruiting graduates who years before would not have made the first cut. These included people trained in the humanities — most notably from Classical Studies and History. This trend got media attention, and the CBC aired a program that explained why. Corporate leaders were saying that their organisations needed graduates who, more than anything else, had been trained and educated to think. They said that they had too many MBA's who were full of their studies in management, statistics and economics, but who otherwise needed directing and close-tabs management. In contrast, the humanities people could be given stacks of manuals, briefs, white papers and so on and told to go away and come back with something useful — and they would — without sucking on corporate resources that were otherwise engaged. This became something of a revelation to corporate executives.

So far, I think that you have got some good advice from other AKers. I'll add this to it. Don't do what I did. For many years, I tended to buck against the trends and defaulted to lower-paying, less satisfying work. I would put specialist training alongside what you have already done in order to make a winning CV that gets the attention of employers. Alternatively, you may wind up being self-employed and marketing your training and acumen. Fisherdude has mentioned languages — an excellent addition to any education and essential to international business. Technical skills have enormous value — say electronics if it interests you. Whatever it is, make sure you are attracted to it — sort of like a predilection. I bucked this too. I went towards what I thought was "good for me" as opposed to what really turned me on. Big mistake! In the end, you will need the energy that comes out of fascination.

After years of study, it may seem a cruel realization that your education has not yet ended. The fact is it may never end. You may be involved with learning for many years to come — even for the rest of your life. This may be an adjustment, but it is a vital one if you want to get ahead.

My two bits comes down to this. The world of commerce wants people with initiative and mental discipline who can accomplish missions. They want people who can research, expedite and solve problems. They can relate to a shrinking world of disparate languages and culture — a world where increasingly skills and knowledge is more disseminated than ever before. By arming yourself with an ancillary set of skills that go beyond the base of your current education, you will put yourself ahead and among the best prepared. I keep meeting and reading about people who have succeeded because they have mastered a number of fields. Their CV’s read like a storied journey. Often their lives have taken interesting twists and turns.

You stand in front of an exciting time in your life. You are asking the questions, so I have confidence that you are on the right track. Many of us older guys must wish we could start again. I know that I do.

Best of Luck — Lorne

[rroobbcc]

Isn't this the truth? You can spend hours and days applying for jobs online and you'll be lucky to get one interview, unless you know someone, in which case, you probably wouldn't have to apply online.I am sorry bordeno, but IMO this is exactly the behavior that keeps people from getting the job they want. The only thing that online job listings are good for is identifying who is hiring. The next step is to call the company (many times if necessary) and probe around until you find out who you need to be talking to. Once you know that, you show up in person and hand deliver your resume, or even call and ask the person to lunch or a coffee. Guess what? Now you know someone, and you've shown them that you are prepared to take initiative and work hard for what you want, both traits that any employer values.

[Grainger49]

I forgot, my brother has a degree in English. He has worked in insurance adjusting and is now a litigation specialist. English makes a big difference in legal matters.

Possibly another direction.

[wajobu]

Indeed, being a capable writer is a skill and a gift. If you can communicate and write well, this can be very helpful in a number of fields.

Technical writing, editing, free-lance writing, etc.

I have friends who are free-lance writers and they have worked for testing services, as journal editors, text book writers, etc.--making very good livings too.

There are many options; plus as noted, networking can be very helpful.

[poohsan]

lots of good tips here, some I may even put the use after stagnating bit in the IT world (got railroaded into management - hate it).

Not that I have any experience though but you're young and have a degree, you might consider the military. Not the life for everyone and the AF or Navy seems less likely to put you directly in harm's way, but it's experience and training and they're one of the few remaining employers that still offers a pension.

[HepcatWilly]

Great posts here. Let me add my two cents.

I am a graphic designer, I followed my passion and it took me around the world. I met my wife overseas, started a successful freelance business, bought the house of my dreams and have worked with incredibly interesting, passionate and wonderfully intelligent people.

You can leverage your degree by:
1. Writing out your true passions and capitalizing on the most marketable
2. Consider yourself and your career as a business
3. Always seek to commercialize your passions, and
4. Continually seek to discover the next wave in your field. Make sure you're riding it.

Commercializing your passions isn't as cynical as it sounds. Teaching English abroad is doing just that. Making a for-profit hifi website is the same. Working as a director of a local dance theater is too. Simply, do what you love, but make sure it's going to provide a substantial return on your investment (time, effort).

Think of it this way. Let's say you love writing, and are passionate about British sportscars and Romantic paintings. You can write for newspapers/magazines, becoming expert in your field. Write for auction houses. Write for the development offices of museums, etc. "Credibilty Marketing" is the single best book I've read on the path to being recogized in your field. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793148863

Networking is key. Seek out and help those around you. Network with community leaders and other passionate people. Give more than you get. Do charity. Almost all of my work comes from word-of-mouth and contacts. I never advertise, never cold-call.

Whatever field you land in, look at the BIG trends. Look at the emerging markets and play there, that's where the action is. Go East, young man, to the multi-trillion dollar emerging marketplace of Asia.

Lastly, make sure you save and have insurance. Keep 6 months of your monthly expenses in the bank. This gives you the abilty to take risks and not panic at every downturn. Buy insurance, particularly long-term disabilty to protect you if you get ill. Negative things WILL happen, as many here (myself included) can attest. So make sure you're ready.

Although this sounds like I advocate starting your own business, that's not really the case. It's up to you and where you are in life. I currently work fulltime at a job that I love, in a position that combines several of my passions.

All the money and success is there for the taking. It's your job to mine it.

[HepcatWilly]

Oh, and as onepixel and rroobbcc point out, working abroad advances your career at a spectacular rate.

[Strangeband]

As others have noted, your skills in writing/editing/researching are not to be taken lightly. I was in your shoes some years ago and did put off matters by getting my masters in English. I would suggest you see about graduate internships and complete a masters in English or communications.

Volunteer to edit and write newsletters, articles, or whatever opportunities you can find to use your skills---and get your name associated with your work.

I taught school for a few years then became a copy editor. You can use such a path to keep advancing your skills and move up the food chain. Learn side skills such as desktop publishing to set yourself apart from others.

And do not forget the Internet. Being able to develop and manage Web content is a great skill, too---by that I mean the words, ideas, and language, not the technical aspects of building Web sites.

All the best to you in your quest.

[Fisherdude]

I'll toss in another thought...teaching English as a foreign language, either here or overseas.

There is a great demand for native speakers of English, such as yourself, to live and teach in other countries. My oldest daughter is working toward doing this in Japan. I've spoken to different people who have some knowledge, and it might be a great opportunity for you to go overseas, really get involved in the culture of another country that fascinates you. You might find this short term career provides you with a foot in the door for something else down the road.

While some proficiency in the language of the host country is necessary, you definitely don't need to be fluent. Your level of fluency will determine what level of student you will work with.

[tentoze]

A most excellent thread, folks. A goldmine of good suggestions here.

[scubaguy10]

"The old man, he's got all the money,
And a Young Man ain't got nothing in the world these days![I]
-The Who, Live at Leeds

Frankly, one of the toughest things in the world is figuring out, at a young age, what you want to do with your life. Few people do it easily, many never do it at all. The hardest thing is finding something you enjoy. I'm an attorney, and I love my job now, even though it's in the public sector with less pay and status than I would have hoped for. That is not as important as I once thought. I spent 15 years in private practice and mostly hated it, so it only took me until age 42 to find a job I loved. In my profession, with the highest rates of alcoholism, divorce, and suicide of any profession in the country, it's better late than never.

[Snade]

Couple of ideas you may not have considered.

These areas hire college grads with little experience:

Local law enforcement

My nephew graduated with liberal arts degree (5 years ago) but found no jobs in his major. Worked for a couple of years in IT support in a call center (boring). He applied for many entry level jobs with local police and fire departments in the many suburbs of Chicago. After about two years of wait lists and many interviews and tests (physical and mental) he got a job with the Oak Park police department. He got through the academy and probation period and now works the afternoon shift and loves the job. He is doing great. He had no military or law enforcement experience before this job. He's good with people and has good common sense - making for a good cop.

Banking - Sales Associates

The big banks (Chase, Bank of America, WAMU, etc) hire college grads (any major) and train them to sell investment products to customers in their local branch banks. This is not a teller job. They want educated people that look professional and communicate well with people. If you search the bank's web sites for jobs in Retail Banking or the Branch Banks, you will find these job listings sorted by the names of the larger cities in Ohio. They sometimes are listed under different names - Sales Associate, something like that.

Best of luck. Snade

[MikeO]

I have an undergraduate degree in history with a minor in classics. I also finished the course work for an MA part-time although I took too much time off in the middle of the MA program and ran out of time before finishing the Thesis and language requirements. All this has nothing to do with the work I have been doing for the past ten years. I work in an IT department at a software company. Most of the technical people hired by our company have either an undergraduate degree (many in liberal arts) or a two or three year technical diploma. In my experience what you studied at college is only important if you are entering a profession such as medicine, engineering, architechture, etc. Universities are an excellent opportunity to enjoy the final period of your youth and expose yourself to opportunities you will never again have in your life. Once your degree is finished, then you can take very short courses on very specific subjects that will help you in the workplace. In my case I took a three month course in computer repair and networking which got me a short term contract position fixing pcs with IBM. From there I got a technical support job at a software company and then from there into the IT department. Would I be any better off if I studied something else in university. Hell no? It was the greatest four years of my life and I would not trade it for anything. Also, I am a big believer in the idea that it is not how much money you earn that will allow you to buy a house and raise a family. It is how much money you waste on crap you don't need or even want. If you want an expensive sports car that will be worth nothing in 10 years then you will need to earn a lot of money. If you can live a simple life, it is very possible to purchase a house and raise a family on a modest income

[SolderIron]

>my profession, with the highest rates of alcoholism, divorce, and suicide of any profession in the country

Eeek!

Twenty four is not old. There is always a trade off in fun (what you like to do) and work (what people will pay to get done). Rare it is that the 2 are the same. Most people who got there are either very lucky or work hard to get it. I think kids should do realistic career planning before entering college. You already have all the general eds and a BA out of the way. A path foreward is maybe look at what career will pay the money you like and that you can tolerate. In 2 years you can get a MS or a BS then a career. 24 is very yound and you have a lot of time still, but you don't have much time left until you get locked in by life.

[sleddogman]

Marry into money. :thmbsp:

[Eric Clark]

I am a bit younger then you but did you ever think of moving? I have no desire to spend my entire life in DC but the market is good and I was able to work into a decent position after busting my ass for 6 months.

[Tapehead47]

As Joseph Campbell said: "Follow your bliss, the money will follow".

I joined the U. S. Navy during the Vietnam War so I wouldn't be drafted into the Army. Friends of mine went off to college at the same time.

If I had went to college first I would have been an officer instead of an enlisted man. What a difference!

But the experience the U. S. Navy afforded me is something that has helped me throughout my life. The training, the places I've been, the people I've met. Leaving my home town in NY and moving to CA alone was worth the whole cost of admission.

The government provided me with a college education and I got a BA in Fine Art after my Navy days. The Navy provided me with a world of experience, a potential career choice, and helped me grow up.

If you where to join the Armed Forces you would be a commissioned officer. Lots of benefits over enlisted men! And the officers got all the babes!

I'm not suggesting to join just because you can't find a satisfactory job. 4 years of your life would be the cost, but the benefits would far outweigh that.

If you've been living in the same town all your life it's time to get the hell out and see the world! Gain some experience, see some exotic countries, sacrifice your time for the betterment of our country and get paid for it.

The Navy or Air Force would be a better choice if you want to stay out of combat. But it's no guarantee.

Just a suggestion.....

Rick

[soundmotor]

Can anyone suggest a way up?

Hey, you are the exact age I was when I realized I was totally fucked!

Here is the stripped down version of what I did -

Pick an industry that somewhat aligns with your own interests. This will help you enormously early on during the scut phase. There will be enough that you like to offset that which you don't.

Get in as high as you can. (For me however that was entry-level but I got in.) Also, get into the section of the company that is involved with income generation (I did). Marketing, product development, sales, field training, business planning, etc. If you are hired into shipping, it will be tough to get into the income generating units of the business even if a position opens up there.

Learn as much as you can about the industry you've chosen while on the job. Work your ass off and be visible to management. Push for every opportunity & promotion you can grab and never forget the wolves outside your door.

Don't stay too long at the first gig before you start looking for a better one. 2-3 years max is what I would have done doing it again. I stayed ~5 but the last 2 were just skill honing as I had peaked there with where I could go.

At the next gig, push for the most pay you can get up front as you won't get big annual raises unless the company is structured for that or you are in a sales position with bonus. Stay 2-3 years and look for a better gig. You now have marketable skills under your belt that will be valuable to another firm, especially if you are coming from a competitor.

Repeat as often as neccessary and relocate where the jobs are. I am 20 years on in the same industry and doing the above worked out OK for me. Oh, and my college degree I had under my belt way back when? Cannot recall ever needing it. Everything I've learned I got on the job, the best school there is.

One more thought on relocation. Pick a company with national locations. If you are not in an area of the country with a lot of companies to choose from, perhaps there is one that has nationwide offices? Getting a job with them and transferring to a better part of the country later (one with more job choices) means you come into the new town with a job and can be looking for a better one while having an income. It is very tough to pull up stakes and move without a sure prospect of employment.

Good luck!

[mwr885]

As Joseph Campbell said: "Follow your bliss, the money will follow".

I joined the U. S. Navy during the Vietnam War so I wouldn't be drafted into the Army. Friends of mine went off to college at the same time.

If I had went to college first I would have been an officer instead of an enlisted man. What a difference!

But the experience the U. S. Navy afforded me is something that has helped me throughout my life. The training, the places I've been, the people I've met. Leaving my home town in NY and moving to CA alone was worth the whole cost of admission.

The government provided me with a college education and I got a BA in Fine Art after my Navy days. The Navy provided me with a world of experience, a potential career choice, and helped me grow up.

If you where to join the Armed Forces you would be a commissioned officer. Lots of benefits over enlisted men! And the officers got all the babes!

I'm not suggesting to join just because you can't find a satisfactory job. 4 years of your life would be the cost, but the benefits would far outweigh that.

If you've been living in the same town all your life it's time to get the hell out and see the world! Gain some experience, see some exotic countries, sacrifice your time for the betterment of our country and get paid for it.

The Navy or Air Force would be a better choice if you want to stay out of combat. But it's no guarantee.

Just a suggestion.....

Rick



I must second this post, I wish I had gone to college before the Navy, the life of an officer is a much more lucrative one. If you decide to join the Navy as an Officer, understand you have a very very good chance of going to combat, they are using navy officers as Foward Observers in Iraq. However If you join the armed force to avoid combat you are joining for the wrong reasons anyway.

[HepcatWilly]

My niece was going nowhere, a real townie. Wrapped up in the most unimportant dramas, bad family life and no prospects for the future. She joined the Navy, and it's the best thing that happened to her.

I'm very proud of that girl, I'm glad she grabbed the reigns.

[Kaffeen]

As Joseph Campbell said: "Follow your bliss, the money will follow".

<snip>

Rick

+3

Reading or just watching Joseph Campbell (The Power of Myth) will pay off dividends. And this meshes nicely with what others have suggested, figuring out what you like to do, what interests you.

Several posters have suggested teaching English as a second language. The gal I mentioned in my first post told me she taught English in Japan for two years. She said she didn't have to learn Japanese to do it as they want the students to be immersed. But there's nothing wrong with learning a second language, especially for an English major.

[Arkay]

Just a thought: two industries where English-language skills are highly valued and getting hired is possible, are law, and banking.

I remember when I was finishing college and considering law school, that some major law school recruiters told me they actually PREFERRED English majors who were interested in law, to undergraduates who had majored in pre-law! Second on their list were history majors! They explained it was because communication (and understanding well the language of law) was critical for a lawyer to be successful, and history gave people an understanding of human behavior, also a prerequisite to becoming a great lawyer. You might be able to get am entry-level job (administrative work, writing non-technical things, proofreading, etc...) in a law firm, that would eventually pay for you to get a degree on the side, and enter the profession(?).

I mention banking because I've known several bankers who majored in non-financial things like English or Psychology, and ended up with successful careers. You might get a start by approaching them about helping them to write annual reports, speeches for the bigwigs, etc...

Regardless of what field you enter, get a foot in the door with the best job you can find, then SHINE in it; let people see that you are better than just what you were hired for, and eventually opportunities will come.

For 90 percent of the jobs out there (maybe more), after you've worked a few years in a few positions or companies, IT WON'T MATTER MUCH WHAT your college degree was in. Doing well in high school helps get you into a college. Getting through college helps you get a job (somewhere, of some kind). Your first job helps get you your second one, much more than your degree does. Your second one helps get you your third, etc... BUT the most important thing will always be what you have been doing in the immediately previous few years, and your work experience as a whole. AFTER the first couple years of working, having a degree just means they can tick off that box on the application, but it really won't be nearly as relevant as the work you've been doing. After the second job, no one will care very much what your degree was in. Sort of hard to accept after 3, 4 or 5 years spent learning something, but it's true.

[Aage]

You've had a huge heap of great advice drop in your lap here, me bucko. Now get out there, read it through, take from it what you can in order to build what you want. Then, just do it.

"If it's to be, it's up to me."

So what about it kid, do you feel lucky?

.
..
... .

:scratch2:

[dark matter]

Ok. I threw the bag of rock salt crystals on my back porch, and I-Ching-A-Ling Ice Melt has spoken...

The "way up" is a minefield strewn with obstacles, deceptions and alluring compromises. Some of them may be your own. No one can give you an answer to the dilemma you suggest. A "solution" has to come solely from you. (Ching-A-Ling wouldn't shit you here.)

The only way out is through. "Follow your bliss" - or your piss, or whatever brings you ultimate satisfaction...Gives you goose bumps. Anything less and you compromise not only your integrity, but also the entire course of your life. You don't want to spend 9-5 with numbskulls. And it's a lot harder to make changes when you're 45.

The answer you are looking for is not yet formulated...Still too indefinite - your agenda is obscuring the way. Answers will come gradually - in bits of barbed wire and rusty shrapnel from an irrational part of you, through deliberate action on your part. You will recognize Eureka when you meet.

Expose yourself to things...Get involved with different approaches. Hang out with anti-intellectuals...Find out what you hate. At least that will tell you what NOT to do. Don't be in such a hurry for things to fall in place. (I-Ching-A-Ling's salt is only three billion years old...)

[Eric Clark]

I am a bit younger then you but did you ever think of moving? I have no desire to spend my entire life in DC but the market is good and I was able to work into a decent position after busting my ass for 6 months.

Here is what I am talking about. More then half the places are around DC-

http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/best-places-to-get-ahead.html

[Alaric]

Lots of very good insight here. Being young and ambitious sucks-until you're old and successful.

[dr*audio]

Joe,
You've seen lots of good advice here. I will add mine to the suggestion that you teach. I believe you can get in as a substitute now, without a teaching degree. If so, then you could start earning some money to be able to pay to finish off a teaching certification.
Having any degree in the first place does help you get a job. You might want to think about moving to a major city, like Columbus, where there are jobs. There are jobs in Ohio, but only in select industries; medical, IT, teaching, banking, machinists (with computer aided manufacturing experience) are all hiring.
I have a Bachelor of Music degree. It still helped me get jobs. I didn't want to be a starving musician so I took electronics courses in college. Ok, you didn't diversify, but you are still qualified for certain things and can get on the job training. Be creative with your resume. Tailor it to each specific job. Try to bend any relavent experiences you have to fit the job requirements. Did you ever babysit? That's management experience / and / or people skills.

[KeninDC]

I was in your boat, too. I went to grad school and then law school.

Seriously consider law school or grad school. You are an excellent writer. I always figured you were older, based on your writing skills. Believe me, someone will pay you for that talent.

Ken

[Negotiableterms]

Can you tell us a little more about your skill set? I got the writing part, but what's the rest like?

For example, are you good at math, too? Foreign language? What do you dream of doing?

As a lawyer/cpa, I like the idea of getting some kind of ticket that admits you to a revenue stream, but law school or grad school (MBA?) are long and expensive.

[Fisherdude]

Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?

I think we scared him off.

[pilotputz]

Bank robbery, perhaps?
If you do it right, you only have to do it once...

But seriously, I'm with KeninDC.
I'm resigned to the fact that my BA in English composition got me little more than some good memories and serious student loan debt. My lady is about to finish up her Masters in a matter of months--good Lord willing, things will work out--and then I see Law School in my future. I think many of we Liberal Arts Majors need to realize that a college degree just ain't what it used to be.
You've gotten a ton of good advice from an impressive amount of decent folk who would really like to see you find your way into something good. I wish you the best of luck. An old saying that always sticks with me whenever I start something new is that "80 percent of success is simply showing up." Find what you REALLY love and stick with it: You'll get to where you want to go.

[scubaguy10]

I'm amazed at the number of attorneys on this thread. But they are all saying that communiciatioin skills are the key, and they're right, whether you end up as a practicing attorney or not. In business, sales, or nearly anything good writing and communication skills are critical.

But at the end of the day, perseverence and hard work are necessary to just get it done. You have to be hung up on the completion thing. I just worked a 10 hour day, and drove my Porsche through the city home. I'm drinking a Stoli martini (very dry) and thinking how lucky I am to have the chance to work this hard. It's worth it.

[soundmotor]

Here is what I am talking about. More then half the places are around DC-

http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/best-places-to-get-ahead.html

I am amazed at the mid-Atlantic strength & VA in particular.

VA is probably our favorite state & we vacation there every couple years in the Hampton Roads-Williamsburg area.

Now I just want to move there!

[winters860]

Hi all,

I was putting off a response in this thread until I could come up with some sort of coherant response. Your advice and anecdotes are a well of inspiration, and display the spirit of the AK community admirably.

I regret to say that when I look at my original post, I see shots of self-pity and resignedness. There's really no need for all that. It was melancholy born out of idleness. Since last week, I've been hot on the job hunt, applying for positions, and registering with a local temp service.

Between this thread and the woman at the temp service putting a better spin on my skills. I have a much more positive view of my job prospects. This thread, in particular, has got me thinking in some new directions while forcing me to ask some hard questions about what I don't want.

For a litany of reasons, mostly related to knowing a lot of teachers and what they experience, I am opposed to teaching K-12. Due to a congenital medical condition, I am unable to serve in the armed forces - besides, I believe my temperment is unsuitable. Most of the people I know who have gone into the military cosider it to have been a postive decision and I respect their service. I've been wrestling with whether I could see myself working a cubicle farm office job. I'm honestly not sure. The thought ranks just above physical labor without air conditioning.

The idea of working at a college or other governmental entity is appealing. I have seen the value of a civil service pension again and again. I can write and I should keep those skills sharp - I post a lot on AK, but I'm not aiming for publication-grade material here. I'd prefer to to a variety of things in a job, rather than the same thing all the time. I feel like I could do damn near any job, and while I'll take the first full-time position offered, it won't stop me from exploring different paths and trying to develop usable skills.

I would love to someday run my own retail business. On my more Pollyanna days I feel like I could run a damn good record store. I'm one of those heretics that believes there's still room for the right indie. Unfortunately, I also understand enough about running an independant retail store of any sort to know that it requires an immense amount of start-up capital not to be doomed from the start. Being the "Pop" in a Mom & Pop shop isn't something I aspire to do early in my life.

What about my current situation might affect all this? I'm an only child and I believe that gives me a responsibility to someday settle in the Dayton area. However, both my parents are in relatively good health, so if I want to get out and do something else, now is an excellent time. I owe the school something along the lines of $1400 before they'll print my diploma. I'm also carrying defaulted consumer debt along the lines of $2500. My medical debt is around $10K (from correcting the congential health condition), but I could probably get a lot of that reduced. It's a bad situation, credit-wise, but it's actually less debt than 4 out of 5 college grads wind up with. I'm living at home with my grandmother, next to my parents. I used to say that I was going to get my debt under control before moving out, but I'm understandably antsy. I'd rather drive a beater than make car payments, but I aspire to a vehicle that isn't perpetually falling apart. I'm only working one six hour a week shift at my job right now, barely covering my gas, and keeping myself afloat by selling an accumulated bulk of audio gear. That won't last too long.

I am optimistic that I'll be able to turn up a full-time job soon. Hopefully the first of many.

[Aage]

Very well-put. All the very best of luck to you but more importantly, I wish you the strength to work your butt off at whatever you choose. Later you will understand why you have to do that now.

And please, save yourself the heartache of your own retail business. Look around, indie retailers are dying like flies in December. Look into why, and you will run from that idea when you have a clearer understanding of the situation.

Your credit situation is a bit disturbing. I do hope you can get that under control ASAP. It is extremely difficult to be happy in your personal life if people are harassing you for money.

[dr*audio]

Joe,
Why don't you check out MCM Electronics? They are in the Dayton area. Being a parts distributor they would have all kinds of jobs, stockroom, phone orders, technical assistance, even copy writing for the catalogs.

[danhagan]

For what it's worth, I got into the medical field because I was interested in it. That was in 1980. I have NEVER experienced a recession or downturn in this field. And it kind of looks like I never will...

By the way, I'm a nuclear medicine technologist and got my training in the Navy. Only place I know where you get paid a salary to go to school.

Good luck.

[Teron]

Isn't Parts Express in the Dayton area?

There's an audio related job. See what they have as far as job offerings.

Good luck!

[Elfasto]

I guess I'll be the odd man out, and say that I did go into the trades as a Heavy Duty Trailer Tech and Mechanic.

It's hard work, you're gonna get dirty, but just about every field that deals with heavy industry needs guys like us, and really badly in the next 10 years. All the old mechanics are going to retire, and replacements are needed.

I'm not sure how much the HDT's down there get paid, but up here $25/hr to start is not unusual, and journeyman HDT's get paid between $30 and $45 per hour.

You won't get Rockefeller rich being a wrench turner, but you can almost guarantee that with hard work, a good work ethic, and a good attitude, you'll easily keep up to your parents and probably do better than they did at your age. You'll get the house, white picket fence, and working for the right company or industry, a damn nice house and stone wall. :D

[soundseeker]

pulling wrenches has been good to me too.
-------------------------------------------
Snap-on,Mac(tools),Allied,Home Depot :D

[pioneervato]

English teachers seem to be always in demand around here and I would assume it is true in your area as well. I would not rule it out entirely and you might consider teaching at a community college if the high school thing does not interest you. Anyhoo, go with what you know and like to do. Best of luck.

[dread31]

I am also a wrench turner, but of the industrial maintenance type. It's pretty good money, I make $25.20 an hour here in Va.

However, I too feel I am reaching a "watershed" point in my life. I'm getting a bit tired of the factory life, the noise, the dirt, and most of all---being a first hand witness to the industrial decline, which I have come to believe is inexorable. It ran me out of Ohio in 1986, and seems to be spreading across the nation like a fart in an elevator, filling every nook and cranny. So, what's a middle aged grease monkey to do? That is the dilemma I must ponder.

You, on the other hand, my young friend, are young and college educated.
Forget that notion of a useless degree. A so-called "useless degree" is better than none at all. This I know from experience.
You've been given some excellent advice from the others.
You have an education to build upon, and your whole life ahead of you.

Ultimately, it is up to you.

Dave

[poohsan]

some more general and generic advice - work hard, work well with everyone no matter how annoying they are, and when you finally leave a company leave on good terms - don't blow-up bridges no matter how tempting it is. You never know, that annoying co-worker may be your future boss, or he/she may be your ticket into another company if they go there first. And you may want to return to a company years later once your career is going, or the economy if failing. Never say never. And read boderno's (I think?) thread about saving money and do it.

[Big_Tex]

This entire thread has been very interesting to me for a number of reasons, but I think most of all because I was/am in a very similar situation to you.

I graduated with an economics degree in 2006. At the time, I worked in a warehouse and made about $17 an hour, a very liveable wage where I live. There were a lot of entry level jobs out there that I could have pursued, but many of those jobs would have required me to take a pay cut, so I just kept my warehouse job thinking I would find a good job soon enough. Well, I quickly found out a sucky 40 hour a week job sucks a lot less when you suddenly aren't going to school full time as well. For about a year after I graduated, all I did was sleep, go to work, and party it up on the weekend. I'm not going to lie, it was not a bad life. Then one day it just suddenly hit me that I didn't want to do manual labor for the rest of my life.

Once I started looking for a career, I realized that I had no ambition or desire to do anything in particular. I also realized that I hate job interviews more than anything. Anyway, once I finally got my shit together and tried to find a new job, it really wasn't as difficult as I had thought it would be. I actually had a few jobs I could have taken, and settled on the one I thought I would be happiest with. The job started off great, and I actually got promoted less than 4 months after I started. I have now been working for this company for about 6 months. It is a huge company with tons of potential opportunities, but I'm just not sure I can see myself working there for the rest of my life.

I just turned 24 last month, and I feel like I have no direction in my life. I am going to stop typing now because I just read through my post and got all depressed.

[Nikko75]

In Eastern Canada there is a shortage of career oportunities other than working at gas stations and similar for $7.50 hour. The higher paying jobs are call centers are from $9 to $13 hour. Even in California they are having hard times because of inflation etc.

Personally I got sick of it and decided to start my own quality loudspeaker company. I was going to get my business license last week but I'm waiting for my taxes.

PS. I would like to work in the Oil Sands projects in Alberta someday.

[Fisherdude]

...I just turned 24 last month, and I feel like I have no direction in my life. I am going to stop typing now because I just read through my post and got all depressed.

This may sound strange, but finding out what you hate is just as important as finding out what you love. At least you can eliminate the jobs you know you can't see yourself doing for the next 40 years.

[poohsan]

I just turned 24 last month, and I feel like I have no direction in my life. I am going to stop typing now because I just read through my post and got all depressed.

Wait until you're 42, married w/2.4 kids and a mortgage and have no direction in your life. :tears:

[soundmotor]

It is a huge company with tons of potential opportunities, but I'm just not sure I can see myself working there for the rest of my life.

Nor should you. Consider it on the job training. Work it until you can take what you know and parlay it into your next better position somewhere else. Be a shark. Sharks die if they don't keep moving.

[Aage]

I've heard projections that the average person entering the workforce now will likely have five jobs in their lifetime.

Contrast that to my father-in-law, who had one job for his whole life. Well, unless you consider sitting in the rear gunner's turret a job from 1939 to 1945.

[soundmotor]

I've heard projections that the average person entering the workforce now will likely have five jobs in their lifetime.

Geebus, I am in job #16 and I am 46! No, I am not counting weed pulling or feeding someone's pet but actual SS-logged, tax culling work. Granted over the last 20 years I've only had 3 but 5 seems low to me. You've gotta do some scut work to be truly motivated to get away from it.

[Fisherdude]

I've heard projections that the average person entering the workforce now will likely have five jobs in their lifetime...

Geebus, I am in job #16 and I am 46!..

I think the current estimate, given that we're now at least three generations away from the "one job for life" that the WWII generations believed in, is an average of 15 jobs in a lifetime.

[bordeno]

If I don't get a job by mid summer, I think I'll go to grad school in the fall, for an MBA. Gotta do something stimulating. And I do like going to school.... Got the GRE study book today....not as hard as I thought, only basic math. This is a good thing.

[Eric Clark]

I graduated with an economics degree in 2002.


I just turned 24 last month

You got a degree at 18?

[Aage]

You got a degree at 18?

Wow, good catch! He's brighter than we thought!! :scratch2: :tresbon:

[soundmotor]

I think the current estimate, given that we're now at least three generations away from the "one job for life" that the WWII generations believed in, is an average of 15 jobs in a lifetime.

More good news, I'm on borrowed time.

[Big_Tex]

Wow, good catch! He's brighter than we thought!! :scratch2: :tresbon:

Dumber than you thought I guess, I should have said 2006.

[clifselina]

If I don't get a job by mid summer, I think I'll go to grad school in the fall, for an MBA. Gotta do something stimulating. And I do like going to school.... Got the GRE study book today....not as hard as I thought, only basic math. This is a good thing.

If I remember correctly, I had to take the GMAT to get in to graduate business school, not the GRE.

There was also the submission of a resume. I also had to write a paper, stating why I wanted to attend B school and what made me a particularly good match for their program. There were also three letters of recommendation that I had to get people to write. And last but not least I had to undergo a grueling personal interview with a panel of people.

So, get the right study guide and start doing homework as to what the requirements for admission may be to the school you are contemplating attending. It is already March; it is late in the game to start this year.
:thmbsp: