Deciding: speakers/amps/source, which should be first

[stuwee]

How have you in the past,what would you recomend to newbee's( which I've noticed a huge number increase in recently:thmbsp:) to start, I realize that most have a piece bought by them or given to them,if so how would/did you build from there.

Did you make a mistake somewhere and start a slew of buying a bunch of this or that? Were you more methodical?

If you could start from scratch how would you do it?:scratch2:

Craig

[whoaru99]

Improve from the weakest link up; generally speakers (and room acoustics), IMO.

I'm a firm believer that one gets better sound from $500 worth of electronics and $5000 speakers than vice versa. Hypothetical numbers, but you get the drift.

[Nikko75]

I feel building a system is like building a house. The CD/TT source and amplification are the foundation. If the signal is as accurate as possible to the original as possible I can at least know what my speakers really sound like (not to be objective).

I've auditioned a cluster and I found the Rotel separates to be a good price at $500-$900 over the Denon's but both sound colored and masked like a HT system. McIntosh makes some quality gear at a high price. Pass Labs is excellent quality. The best I ever heard was an integrate, the Bryston B100 SST, believe it or not and I wasn't even going to listen to it but I'm glad I did. It blew everything else away. The voice and strings were real...unearthly detail and resolution, massive depth and size...precision...and the faults in the Bowers & Wilkins 800 series were evident. The 800's still didn't have the detail of my speakers but they are excellent. No wonder why they use both in recording studios. Take a listen and it may be the last amplification source you buy for quite a while and it's warranty is 20 years.

[vinyldavid]

I think that SOURCES, R2R and turntable, should come first, and speakers after that. Amplification was last in my buying list. I did not do it this way, mainly because I am working with a budget of almost $0.

An amplifier can only amplify what it is given, and the better the source, the amplifier can only work with the source that it is given, so I think that it pays to have better sources FIRST, and then upgrade the amp and speakers as you go along..

Speakers can only reproduce what they are given, so it pays, IMHO, to get good speakers after god sources, and THEN get whatever electronics you can afford.

[kretinus]

Speakers first definitely, just take your time, listen before you buy whenever possible.

[TONEPUB]

I'm a source guy myself...

Speakers will depend on electronics, but the better the source you
have, the rest of your system will improve as you upgrade them.

[gearhound]

A mediocre set of speakers with a good source.
.....will sound better than..........
A good set of speakers with a mediocre source.

Steve

[Blue Shadow]

If you are doing it from scratch and have the wherewithal to pick what you want, then the most obvious part of the system should come first. That is the speakers. The speakers will determine the system. That said, getting speakers that need the output of Hoover Dam to drive them and not having the ability to power them properly will yield poor results.

We talk about synergy and here is where it comes into play. Buying speakers that make the sound you want to hear and then putting proper electronics with them will provide great results. Then the sources are important as these are another point of the system where there is a conversion of energy, movement to electricity (turntable cartridge), magnetism to electricity (tape equipment) and reading aluminum foil with a laser to make electrical pulses converted by the DAC to make electrical audio signals (CDs).

Choosing the electronics first limits the speakers to ones that work with those electronics. Same with choosing speakers first, limiting power to amps that work well with the speakers, leaving the rest of the system open to any components.

[dmusgrave]

I feel building a system is like building a house. The CD/TT source and amplification are the foundation. If the signal is as accurate as possible to the original as possible I can at least know what my speakers really sound like (not to be objective).

I've auditioned a cluster and I found the Rotel separates to be a good price at $500-$900 over the Denon's but both sound colored and masked like a HT system. McIntosh makes some quality gear at a high price. Pass Labs is excellent quality. The best I ever heard was an integrate, the Bryston B100 SST, believe it or not and I wasn't even going to listen to it but I'm glad I did. It blew everything else away. The voice and strings were real...unearthly detail and resolution, massive depth and size...precision...and the faults in the Bowers & Wilkins 800 series were evident. The 800's still didn't have the detail of my speakers but they are excellent. No wonder why they use both in recording studios. Take a listen and it may be the last amplification source you buy for quite a while and it's warranty is 20 years.

Faults in the B&W 800s? Aren't those 20,000.00 speakers?

If I ever spend 20,000.00 on a set of speakers, I hope I don't find many faults with them :tears:

[dmusgrave]

Looks like that Bryston B100 SST is about 3000.00 too. Man, you are WAY out of my price range... but I'd love to hear that kind of gear at some point :thmbsp:

[uofmtiger]

I think they work together, so some thought has to go into both. If you want a low watt tube setup, you may want highly efficient speakers. If you want a pair of Maggie speakers, then you need an amp that can drive them. I think it depends on what you want from the system.

I think there are more amps available that can feed a pair of Maggies (or name your speaker) a decent signal than speakers that can give you the Maggie sound. In this case (and in most cases), I would lean toward the speakers first.

[dmusgrave]

I'd build around speakers by the way :)

[wineslob]

Speakers first. All the best electronics in the world wont sound good if you can't hear it.

[terra1]

In the past, I bought a receiver first and speakers to fit my budget. As I saved, I would upgrade turntable and speakers. As a newbie, you are constantly learning and acquiring knowledge of nuances in the equipment.

When I was starting out, $500 speakers would have been insanity. I wanted instant gratification, not a pair of boxes to stare at. It would have dictated I buy a cheaper receiver that could hardly drive them to full potential. The receiver would be obsolete upon purchase - a waste of money. At the time it was more convenient for me to upgrade speakers than upgrade receivers. And if you're interested in music you are going to eventually do both anyway.

My first real stereo was a Realistic STA-250 with Quatravox (44 watts) ($319 bought on sale $219) and a small pair of Realistic Solo 3As (cheap). I later added a pair of Realistic Nova 8Bs ($139 bought on sale $80). My life and seasons revolved around the Radio Shack sales equinox. To me the sound was great even with the cheap speakers. What did I know? My ears were still young and developing. I hadn't been propagandized by audiophiles yet.

Even today with my more expensive gear, I find I still sometimes use the Radio Shack memory as my control. Does it sound better? Does it have the robust bass and detailed highs and midrange. Does it bring back the feeling? It was my first love.

[stuwee]

In the past, I bought a receiver first and speakers to fit my budget. As I saved, I would upgrade turntable and speakers. As a newbie, you are constantly learning and acquiring knowledge of nuances in the equipment.

When I was starting out, $500 speakers would have been insanity. I wanted instant gratification, not a pair of boxes to stare at. It would have dictated I buy a cheaper receiver that could hardly drive them to full potential. The receiver would be obsolete upon purchase - a waste of money. At the time it was more convenient for me to upgrade speakers than upgrade receivers. And if you're interested in music you are going to eventually do both anyway.

My first real stereo was a Realistic STA-250 with Quatravox (44 watts) ($319 bought on sale $219) and a small pair of Realistic Solo 3As (cheap). I later added a pair of Realistic Nova 8Bs ($139 bought on sale $80). My life and seasons revolved around the Radio Shack sales equinox. To me the sound was great even with the cheap speakers. What did I know? My ears were still young and developing. I hadn't been propagandized by audiophiles yet.

Even today with my more expensive gear, I find I still sometimes use the Radio Shack memory as my control. Does it sound better? Does it have the robust bass and detailed highs and midrange. Does it bring back the feeling? It was my first love.

terra1: Welcome folks like you are the reason I started this! Propagandized by audiophiles, I love that:D YOU WILL DO AS WE SAY OR YOU WILL BE UNHAPPY FOR THE REST OF YOU LIFE! You sound like your approach to all this madness is keeping a level head and most importantly using your ears:thmbsp:
"NOW BRING PROPER CLOTHING AND, PROCEED TO THE WAGONS IMMEDIATELY" John Waters from "Polyester"

It's all fun and good:music: Craig

[Tom Blasing]

The worst thing I ever did was when I moved out of my parents' house and didn't take my system with me right away. It sat for a little over a year. When I finally retrieved it and got it set up, half of the components were no longer functional. Granted it was mid-fi at best but rather than experiment with the equivilant of 3-4 systems' worth of swapping gear, I wished I'd just went for the gusto the first time around. The amount of money would have been about the same. Of course I would have to have taken out a lengthy loan to afford it all. Waite a minute.......I actually did for my first CD player (Sony CDP-111s).

Granted the current system isn't done yet, but I difinitely have a direction and a reasonable time table of when I should be able to get it.

[johnda]

Lemme tell ya, you don't have to spend tons of money to have an enjoyable system. In my study I have what I think is one of the least expensive systems available(new) today and it is very satisfying. That doesn't mean that I don't want more expensive gear someday, but I was really pleasantly surprised by the sound of this gear. You'll see my current list of gear in my signature.

[uofmtiger]

Lemme tell ya, you don't have to spend tons of money to have an enjoyable system. In my study I have what I think is one of the least expensive systems available(new) today and it is very satisfying. That doesn't mean that I don't want more expensive gear someday, but I was really pleasantly surprised by the sound of this gear. You'll see my current list of gear in my signature.
I have a setup built with a T-amp ($30) and a used pair of Pinnacle PN5+ speakers that works nicely. Most people already own a CD player/DVD player of some kind.

As I mentioned earlier, it depends on what you want from a system. If it is for a study or bedroom, you may want one thing and if it for a huge family room, you may want something different.

For a newbie, I would ask them what they wanted to use the system for. If you check the HT section of this website, you may see different requirements than you find in the vinyl section.

BTW I also own a pair of Presidian and Insignia speakers.:thmbsp:

[Nikko75]

Faults in the B&W 800s? Aren't those 20,000.00 speakers?
If I ever spend 20,000.00 on a set of speakers, I hope I don't find many faults with them :tears:

The faults are so small they are mostly undetectable and I would like to correct myself and refer to them as "flavors". Moving through the 600, CM, 700, to the 800 class you get speakers for different tastes rather than the cliche notion of just price range. Each model up modifies a peak/dip/color with the previous model. I wouldn't necessarily consider the 804S to be better then the 703 though it may have better distortion measurements and has a completely different response graph.

[rdeck]

Find a good hifi/high-end store that is willing to lend you a hand (and some hardware) and take time to learn the differences in sound from various speaker-building philosophies (electrostat/magnetostat/dome/two-way/three-way/sattelite+bass). Go for speakers first, then amp, then source.

Speakers are the heart of your setup, if you follow the path from them to the source you can hear what component fits and what doesn't.
For the 1st step I'd buy speakers and an amp, i found these to almos be 'married' to eachother. In my humble opinion, a good match in these brings you at 90% of your set. You can test combinations of amp/speakers in the shop using various music (bring your own) on different sources.
Make sure the amp's are running and the speakers are -not- fresh out of the box because they need to be played in in some occasions.

Don't be afraid to experiment with combinations; just follow your intuition.

From my experience i found out that a good set plays one or two kinds of music perfectly but a great set plays it all, so don't be afraid to play some House/78rpm and see if it comes to life!

If you think you found a good/great component or set, bring and home and test it there,.because the acoustics of your room are different then the showrooms.
Play with the positioning of the speakers, close to the walls, away from the walls, higher/lower/etc. If you went for electrostats dont forget they also emit sound to the back, put them in front of something that scatters or dampens it. Walk around the room, listen to what your relative position does to the image 'projected' by your set.

This is important:
1) Only trust your ears own ears! You have to listen to what you bought.
2) Its about THE MUSIC, not THE MACHINES!

From my experience I've found that a high price tag does not guarantee quality performance. If you're low on budget please check out second hand. There are classic gems out there for just a few bucks.

[amason3]

A mediocre set of speakers with a good source.
.....will sound better than..........
A good set of speakers with a mediocre source.

Steve

Agreed! :thmbsp:

[geiman]

Now for the final question, Do you listen to music or listen to equipment?

Answer that one and then you will know wether or not you are true

audiophile or not.

[legal eagle]

Speakers first definitely, just take your time, listen before you buy whenever possible.

Yup. Your speakers should be your first step, and probaly be the most expensive component of the system.

Listen to them before you buy, possibly from more than one source.

After you picked your speakers, go home, ccompare prices, and go back to the place where you listened to them, give them a fair chance to beat the best price you got, or at least come close. Often, they will not be able to beat the lowest internet price offered by some wherarehous in god knows where (think of shipping prices too), but they might be able to compensate for that with other bonuses (cables etc).

Bigger isn't always better, and a 3 way speaker is not always a better choice over a 2 way speaker. a 3 way speaker may get lost in a small room.

[www.records]

When I first began this hobby, I just bought decent vintage gear that I would stumble across and put it in my system to see if it sounded better than what I currently had. I started out with some pretty crappy stuff, so usually it was either an upgrade, or different enough to where I thought it was. I finally stumbled across a nice pair of speakers and then sought out and bought amps and preamp to match my speakers. Sources are very important, but they don't seem to require system matching like the amp, preamp, speaker combo do.