What is Your Cassette Recording Methodology?

[bordeno]

Curious as to how various members tape...

[Sansui Louie]

Depends on the tape and the deck, but usually I'll use a CrO2 tape and record with Dolby B and CrO2 bias/eq, but playback at normal with Dolby B on.

If it's an auto bias/eq deck, then I'll playback with Dolby off.

I've never managed to find a deck that seems to be able to reproduce highs worth a crap without 'cheating' some how.

[KlipschFan61]

I kind of shelved that technology many years ago.

[6thumbs]

Record in Dolby but experiment with Dolby and Bias and equilization on playback

[vinyldavid]

Record with none, listen with none.


Works for me!!!

[Celt]

What's a cassette? :)

[dewdude]

Heh.

Octover of 06 I went on a cassette kick after getting a nice late-80's tape deck (Onkyo TA-207. B/C/HX Pro).

My answer is it depends on what i'm making the tape for. Since most of the vehichles I used tapes in had Dolby B, naturally, that's what I recorded in. Generally to Maxell XLII's (Fuji DR-II's and the Radioshack brands aren't that great). I've used C, but the problem with C is unless you use the exact same deck, your results vary.

Oddly enough, I did make quite a few cassettes on TDK D90's without using any NR at all...I'm more kike of random...it's a thing of what I feel like.

I should also mention I spend about 20 minutes before hand setting the bias for the tape...that tends to help, plus my deck cheats, it's got HX Pro.

[dr*audio]

I use a DBX myself.

[spartanmanor]

It's been 20+ years since the last time I recorded a tape but I am pretty sure I used Dolby B both ways.

[perryinva]

With the Nak RX-505 and Type IV, Dolby C. With the Yamaha, dbx. Tapes for the car are usually CRO2, with either nothing or Dolby C...depends on the material. The only time I ever switch to Dolby B is to play prerecorded tapes.

[braxus]

In the 80s I used Dolby C strictly. But since I got my Sony in 94, I've been using Dolby S ever since. Chrome tapes mostly, but have also used metals and now more recently normal bias tapes. If I get back my Aiwa XK-009, I might try DBX for fun too.

[SaSi]

In the very old days when I was a student, I could only afford TDK D quality cassettes. With those cassettes and a cheap deck, the Dolby On in REC and OFF in play was a great workaround.

Later, when I got some money and my old deck died, I bought an AIWA AF-F880 deck. Used SA and AR tapes on that exclusively, all with Dolby C bothways and excellent results. Perhaps, the HX-Pro on the AR tapes gave them a slight edge in headroom and highs over the SA, but cannot remember if it was that or the SA prices that made me prefer the AR.

And it depends on the kind of music. For classical music, the dolby on / dolby off trick messes up badly with the horns and violins - at least to my ear. I can easily find out if a cassette was recorded with B, C or nothing just by listening to it for a few seconds, and the wrong settings annoys my ears.

But now I found a whole new game. AR tape and dbx on the Technics RS-B965. It also has dolby C, but it only helps show how better dbx is.

[Red Stick]

Record with bias set, playback without Dolby, whether it was recorded with Dolby or not.

[Tripqzon]

No Dolby but use a DBX Dynamic Range Expander during playback. Eliminates virtually all hiss when used correctly.

[bordeno]

Great responses....I'm back on a cassette kick myself...its even more fun than in the eighties because now I have multiple TTs to record with.

Most of my taping now is for use in a walkman, and I've been experimenting. Walkman has no dolby, few did, so experimenting with different recording ways. Today for the first time I listened to a tape made without Dolby on the Walkman, sounded fine but hard to tell if better than tapes made with Dolby.

I've never used dbx either as part of a tape deck or separately so I've yet to experience that. But not sure how it'd sound played back on a Walkman.

I have a Nak BX-150 now with a Yamaha K-1020 coming. The Yammy should be a little better, what with 3 heads etc.

Cassettes still sound great!

[AnalogDigit]

I record with Dolby C and play back with Dolby C. I use a three-head Denon DRM-700 for this purpose. If it was a lesser deck with no three-head or bias adjustment, then I will use only Dolby B or none.

I kind of miss having cassettes in my car. With chrome tape they can stand up to anything. I hate when CD's hiccup and don't play even with a slight smudge. I have 25 year old cassettes that still play great. :yes:

So much for digital technology! :thumbsdn:

[koseltri]

I use C pretty much all the time. I'm trolling the usual places for a Dolby S machine. I'll be interested to give it a listen, and see if it really is compatible with B playback. The head units in my vehicles are tape decks with changer controls. Best of both worlds, and much less 'attractive' to the wrong people. :nono:

Current stable-

Working
Technics RS-B85
Onkyo TA-2058

Need tweaking/repair:
Teac V-900X
Denon DR-M4

Dead:
Nak ZX-7
Teac R-888X
2 onkyo TA-2090

Wet Dream: Teac Z-7000

[Twenty20Man]

i have a Tandberg cassette deck and when you record on it you cannot tell the tape from the source period.. best deck i have ever seen or used including naks... use high bias dolby on and playback same way.

[jbrainey]

DBX here TEAC R-919X

[Fred Sanford]

DBX on the studio stuff (Tascam 238s and 244), usually B on other stuff (Nak/Denon home decks, Tascam pro decks, Pioneer car systems). Using B these days is generally because if I'm making a new recording now, it's to use in the car & the car systems only have B.

je

[OvenMaster]

I used to record and play back CD dubs on TDK Metal tapes using Dolby C, but that was before I got a computer to copy discs.
Now I use the deck just to tape FM broadcasts, and that's with B.
Tom

[CountZero]

I Depending on the deck I am using and the length of what I am taping, I will put the a dolby B version on one side of the tape and a DBX or no NR version on side B of the tape.

[braxus]

If you record in Dolby S and play back in Dolby B, the only big difference is the low end is not there. In Dolby C it sounds even more weird, but still acceptable. Again no low end. This is because Dolby S works on the low end as well as the mids and highs, while B and C leave the low end alone.

[jt1stcav]

Dolby C all the way, baby!

[shacky]

Only use Cassette for FM recording now. And since one of my decks only has B that's what I use. Use to play back without Dolby in the car.

[dewdude]

Most of the time if I was making something to play around...I'd not use Dolby. Most stuff I used Maxell XL-II on, and, seriously, you can get away with recording without dolby on those..I did however find i loved the way a few things sounded on TDK D series tapes and to a lesser extent...Fuji DR-I's. But, generally speaking if you have a three-head deck with bias adjustment you can tweak it pretty good....HX Pro is a really nice added bonus..I did spend a lot of time just recording stuff to listen to it as it recorded....ahh the joys of my first three head tape deck. Instant gratification...and close to realtime adjustments are oh so great..just how much CAN you go into the red with what particular tape.

I am however back on a tape kick..I got a Sony RTR unit...and it's a three head...I actually FORGET I'm running stuff through tape when I'm listenting to it now, well, maybe not so much forget as love the sound...and yes, i'm playing jump the red with this thing too.

[daddydlb]

Record with Dolby and playback without.

[Scorpion8]

I always record with Dolby (whatever flavor "on") and then usually listen with it off. Especially since I have so many decks, and passing tapes back and forth between decks with minor differences usually results in the best playback for me.

[shacky]

Deosn't Dolby NR boost high and low end on recording then reduce same on playback? So recording with and playing back without is almost like adding loudness button.

Or am I oversimplifying?

[dewdude]

Kinda, sorta.

Dolby is a companding process. Both B and C work on the high-end only, not the low end. But both basically work by taking the upper frequencies, dynamically compressing them and boosting thier recorded signal a bit. during playback the hf is attenuated and expansion is applied to restore (most) of the original dynamics of the compressed signal. the theory is since the majority of "bad" noise is in the upper part..that boosting the audio's HF range and then attenuating the playback HF will reduce the noise and bring the recorded HF down to a "normal" level..the dynamic compression just ensures that more of the HF range is kept intact.

the idea worked well...provided everything was in total alignment and harmony. most of the times the settings were somewhat off...i found a LOT of times pre-recorded tapes sounded horrible with dolby but home-recorded tapes sounded fine.

and if anyone ever paid attention...that HDCD stuff that came out in 1995..was essentially a companding process to attempt to get more dynamic range.

[NAD613]

I find recording with Dolby C with the bias set around -1.5, then playing back w/Dolby C, makes type I cassettes (Akai SX & Fuji DR-I) sound very good. No loss of highs & no hiss. I also use Dolby C on type II cassettes, but I don't need to use the bias control too often with type II tapes.

[avionic]

Haven't recorded cassette in years...I don't remember:dunno:

[Lady Ayeka]

i record in DOLBY C, but i leave DOLBY off in playback. i just don't like what DOLBY does to the sound...

[Mr. Lin]

i record in DOLBY C, but i leave DOLBY off in playback. i just don't like what DOLBY does to the sound...

Then why do you have it on when you record?

My deck only has Dolby B, plus no bias fine tuning, so I prefer to leave it off because it seems to muffle the sound a bit, and I'm a picky listener.

[Lady Ayeka]

Then why do you have it on when you record?

My deck only has Dolby B, plus no bias fine tuning, so I prefer to leave it off because it seems to muffle the sound a bit, and I'm a picky listener.

doesn't DOLBY encoding lower the noise floor, regardless of whether the decoding is active?

[grateful]

If your deck is in proper working order Dolby C in record and playback makes nearly perfect noiseless recordings. If your equipment sucks the companding process magnifies the suckworthiness.

[Mr. Lin]

doesn't DOLBY encoding lower the noise floor, regardless of whether the decoding is active?

You sir are asking the wrong person, because I'm new to this.:D

[beans]

Cassette recordings without the use of Dolby or dbx technically do not even qualify as being "high fidelity" because of the tape hiss. Somewhere there is an official definition of the term high fidelity... I'm just too lazy and tired to look it up right now.

[Mr. Lin]

Cassette recordings without the use of Dolby or dbx technically do not even qualify as being "high fidelity" because of the tape hiss. Somewhere there is an official definition of the term high fidelity... I'm just too lazy to look it up right now.

I don't agree with that. My Nak has Dolby B, but like I said I don't use it because it sounds like there's a blanket over the music, especially the highs. So there's some hiss, especially with normal bias tapes, but frankly, playing some of the tapes I've made (from CDs) on my main system through speakers, it sure sounds like high fidelity to me, and the hiss is usually barely audible if I set the levels right during recording.

I've also recently A-B tested some of my tapes, switching from the recording on the cassette back to the source (the CD), and I have a few tapes that clearly sound better than the CD I just recorded it from, except for a little hiss, which I can live with. If you can live with crackles and pops on records, you should be able to deal with a little hiss.

So I don't know what the official definition of "high fidelity" is, but if it excludes all tapes made without Dolby just because of hiss, perhaps it should be re-thought.

[NAD613]

I don't agree with that. My Nak has Dolby B, but like I said I don't use it because it sounds like there's a blanket over the music, especially the highs. So there's some hiss, especially with normal bias tapes, but frankly, playing some of the tapes I've made (from CDs) on my main system through speakers, it sure sounds like high fidelity to me, and the hiss is usually barely audible if I set the levels right during recording.

I've also recently A-B tested some of my tapes, switching from the recording on the cassette back to the source (the CD), and I have a few tapes that clearly sound better than the CD I just recorded it from, except for a little hiss, which I can live with. If you can live with crackles and pops on records, you should be able to deal with a little hiss.

So I don't know what the official definition of "high fidelity" is, but if it excludes all tapes made without Dolby just because of hiss, perhaps it should be re-thought.

Years ago I bought a Hush NR unit. It's a rack-mount unit, bought out of a musical supply catalog. It's meant to be used in studio applications, but I used it in my stereo system. That may be the way to go for NR. It has 2 independent channels, but can be used together for stereo & you don't need to record with it to use it. It actually works pretty well, but I haven't used it for some time now.

[NAD613]

If your deck is in proper working order Dolby C in record and playback makes nearly perfect noiseless recordings. If your equipment sucks the companding process magnifies the suckworthiness.

I agree; Dolby C is very good. Like I've said before, if you have a deck with a bias control, record some tapes while adjusting it until you find a setting to your liking. That way, you can still have a good high end while using Dolby NR. The bias control on my NAD 613 in conjunction with Dolby NR has allowed me to make the finest tapes I've ever made. Crisp, clear highs with no hiss in glorious analog.

[danj]

With my Nak I use Dolby B or none at all. I won't use Dolby C unless I'm making a tape for someone who requests it.

With my Sony I usually use Dolby S, which works better than C ever did.

With my Marantz, Dolby B or none at all. It doesn't have C or S.

[Mr. Lin]

Seems like everybody has a different take on this.

[beans]

All I can give is from my own my experience: use Dolby (B or C) ...on record AND playback... if it sounds like there's a blanket over the highs, turn your treble knob... nothing wrong with that - it's there for a reason. Maybe your Dolby calibration is off, or you may need to use different tape.

[Arkay]

It varies according to which deck I'm using for recording, which kind of tape, what the original source is/sounds like, and what deck(s) the tape will be played back on. Sometimes Dolby B, sometimes Dolby C, and sometimes no Dolby at all.

With my best Nak (ZX-7) I usually use metal tape, and no Dolby. On the cheaper decks and/or with lesser tapes, I'll most often use Dolby C (preferred) if the deck has it (most do) or Dolby B (with Type 1 or 2 tape), especially if I am making the tape for someone else. But since I only know about three people who still listen to cassettes, that is not so often.

:scratch2: I need to reduce my pile of cassette decks and simplify. I stopped buying decks a while ago, but it's hard to let go of the ones I have already.

I'm curious to try the DBX stuff one day, but haven't yet.

[bordeno]

Wish you were closer, Arkay. I'd prolly be happy to take a deck off your hands. I'm back into cassettes big time. Have a Nak BX-150, getting a Pioneer CT-F1250 and also have a Yammy K-1020 that needs repair.

Not sure if I like dbx....unless of course you're playing it back with dbx. Even then it doesn't seem quite natural. Since all the tapes I make are used in various Walkmen for working out, dbx is out. I like Dolby C in general.

[niklasthedol]

My choise of Noise Reduction system depends on the tape in use.

As single ended systems I use either Dyneq (built into my preferred cassette deck) or HX-pro (built into my preferred R2R machine).
IF these single ended systems for real can be classified as noise reduction or head room expander is up for debate.
:headscrat:

As double ended systems I only find it needed with Dolby B on Fe tapes with lots of hiss.
On R2R I do not find double ended noise Reduction needed.

As defined, double ended noise reduction systems has to be active when recording as well as when playing back.
:stupid:

I mainly use Metal or Chromium tapes on cassette decks.

To those people claiming that cassette is not HiFi:
:bash:
I am just smiling at them because they never heard great sound quality.

Cassette tapes is, when it's best, classes above sound of best ever CD in best ever CD set-up and even better than the best digital resolution I have heard (32/192).
:tresbon:

R2R is, when best, better than anything.
:angel:

Double ended Noise Reduction systems has the same unfortunate effect on the natural sound of the best music exsisting as lossless digital encoding (digital compression as it truly is) has:
It creates a black background with no noise but it does it compromising on microdynamics and overtone reproduction.
:nono:

If the tape quality is low and the hiss is high, this compromise maybe my choise but it will be extreme bad tapes for me to use Dolby C.
:puke:

Double ended noise reduction systems, as they almost all are (Dolby A, B, C and S; DBX I, II and III; High-Com etc.), are very depending of circuit allignment and will usualy be causing incompatibility between decks.
:confused:

My FM tuner has built in MPX filter with 2nd order 80dB damping, so using the MPX filter on the tape deck is like using belt & braces at the same time.

By the way, MPX is not comparable with other NR systems.
It is only meant to get rid of the pilot tone of FM sendings.

Calibrating record level and bias as well as azimuth are best done manual but it for sure is like handicraft or good workmanshift. It is time consuming but to make a good recording very necessary.
:thmbsp:

My preferred Cassette Tape deck is Tandberg TCD 910.
(the Dragon - and everything else - killer)
:music:
I have Revox B710 and Tandberg TCD 440A as back-up.
Used to have Nak's the best and Teac, Pioneer, Alpine, B&O et al.
Had cassette decks since it was first marketed.

My preferred Reel to Reel deck is Lyrec Frida. The one taking over from Nagra T and Stellavox SD9.
Had R2R since the mid-sixties.

:banana:

"dolph"

[merrylander]

I use it for recording off of FM as we have a great classical music station here in Charm City. I was using the Yamaha K-850 that I have up for sale until I picked up a K-1000 that has dbx in addition to Dolby and also has adjustable bias. From there it is easy to drag it into COOLEdit 2000 and clean out any noises.

[eteller]

I was just playing with this the other night, on my newly aquired Onkyo TA-RW313. i find i can live with a little more hiss than the loss of highs, So i settled on recording with no Dolby, same with playback.

[CChase]

I am far from experienced with "hi-fi" equipment, but my experiences thus far have been to just shut the Dolby (B, C, or S) off (as well as DBX) and use it that way.

Any deck I have ever used, Dolby just seems to deaden everything. I keep trying to convince myself that maybe I am doing something wrong so I give it a try again but it's never what I want.

As far as hiss... I listen through headphones most of the time and even with the volume way up, I don't think I have ever heard enough hiss to count for anything, at least on the Maxell XL-IIS and XL-II tapes... the TDK SA's are another story.

[NAD613]

I am far from experienced with "hi-fi" equipment, but my experiences thus far have been to just shut the Dolby (B, C, or S) off (as well as DBX) and use it that way.

Any deck I have ever used, Dolby just seems to deaden everything. I keep trying to convince myself that maybe I am doing something wrong so I give it a try again but it's never what I want.

As far as hiss... I listen through headphones most of the time and even with the volume way up, I don't think I have ever heard enough hiss to count for anything, at least on the Maxell XL-IIS and XL-II tapes... the TDK SA's are another story.

That's why it's best to have a deck with a bias control on it. When you turn the bias control knob counter-clockwise, it will increase the highs while recording. That's how I'm able to maintain the highs while still using NR.

[titanstats]

Not that I make many tapes, but...Dolby HX Pro seems the way to go for me. If using C, I tend to knock the bias up a bit while recording.

I don't use my deck much, but you guys out there who haven't tried it for a long time should. There's plenty of good deals right now on equipment that used to be priced prohibitively, and the sound quality will surprise you.

[NYListens]

It's been 20+ years since the last time I recorded a tape but I am pretty sure I used Dolby B both ways.

Wow, I didn't realize it until this moment, but I am right there with you on the 20 years. Now I am feeling OLD!

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

I use Dolby B only on record and playback. I seldom use cassettes due to unreliability and the need for NR to sound best. I need consistent speed and minimal scrape flutter which I can hear. I use 7 1/2 IPS 4-track open reel for analogue work which is critical. I eventually will get a 2 track deck running at 15 IPS when there is room at my home I live at most of the time. I eventually want a ReVox cassette machine for that job. I feel like the ReVox is the best practical cassette deck for critical use. I need reliability.

[niklasthedol]

Hi,

I use Dolby B only on record and playback. I seldom use cassettes due to unreliability and the need for NR to sound best. I need consistent speed and minimal scrape flutter which I can hear. I use 7 1/2 IPS 4-track open reel for analogue work which is critical. I eventually will get a 2 track deck running at 15 IPS when there is room at my home I live at most of the time. I eventually want a ReVox cassette machine for that job. I feel like the ReVox is the best practical cassette deck for critical use. I need reliability.


I have both Tandberg and Revox in daily use.

I do not find Revox more reliable than my Tandberg machines.

And since Tandberg is better sounding and recording, I prefer Tandberg.

Revox appears like if it was built like a tank........until you touch the buttons.

"dolph"

[BrocLuno]

Dolby laying it down. Dolby off if in the car. Home systems have Dolby on if a good tape with a little extra bias when recorded and coming out through the Infinities (EMIT Tweeters WILL make the hiss noticeable). If coming out through the BA's or A/D/S it may be off or on as needed.

[jayk]

i used to record all my cassettes with dolby b for most of the '70s and '80s when i was into that.
now when i play back all those tapes, i only use dolby b on the high bias tapes. otherwise it's off.
for some that have lost the high freqs i run them thru an aphex exciter.

[fiddlefye]

I use the dbx system on my Teac C-3RX for tapes that I only plan on playing on that system, otherwise I generally just try to get as good a saturation as the tape will allow and run straight. The Teac's Dolby B system is pretty good, but still doesn't get up to the full potential of the deck IMO. I use RTR at 7 1/2 ips (various Revox) a lot more these days.

[grateful]

I have not seen it stated, and perhaps some don't understand it turning on the dolby on any tape will appear to deaden the highs. What is really happening is that the highs are being restored to their proper level. The dolby encoded tape played back with dolby off is like turning up the treble control all the way. The tape will be way brighter than the original source.





I am far from experienced with "hi-fi" equipment, but my experiences thus far have been to just shut the Dolby (B, C, or S) off (as well as DBX) and use it that way.

Any deck I have ever used, Dolby just seems to deaden everything. I keep trying to convince myself that maybe I am doing something wrong so I give it a try again but it's never what I want.

As far as hiss... I listen through headphones most of the time and even with the volume way up, I don't think I have ever heard enough hiss to count for anything, at least on the Maxell XL-IIS and XL-II tapes... the TDK SA's are another story.

[BrocLuno]

And that's good in a muddy car system with too much stuff and the seats in the way of the speakers. Bass can pound over the road noise, the highs can't always do that. Dolby off will get that extra info out into the cabin :)

[Brian]

Kayset - nah, never use them. Reel to reel rules.