Hello ... I am new here. I posted this is the solid state forum, but I think this is more appropriate. I am recording guy, with an analog studio. I have had these altecs for many years, and recently had them refurbished. I just hooked them up with my Crown D-300A and a Paragon Tube preamp. I like the sound, but this setup needs alot of work. They are too bright, almost caustic. Also it sounds like a high-pass filter is engaged , as instruments in the lower octaves like kick drum and electric bass sound lopped off...

I know these have potential, but need some tips on better preamp / power matches. I would like to relegate the crown 300 to my headphone cue system in the studio, and get something that will sound very FLATTERING with the Altecs... for playing back my mixes loudly, impressing clients etc.,...

Someone recommended a Mcintosh MC2200 or MC2300. Also , someone said to go for a tube power amp like the Pilot 232, Dynaco 70.

I would like to get a preamp that works well with the amp i choose.

I have checked out ebay...but a little lost with hifi stuff. Recording equipment, I know very well. But with hifi stuff, I need some solid direction. Don't want to spend more than $1500 for the pre and power amp. I think I need to buy used.
Any advice?

Thank you!
Nico

hey-Hey!!!,
Get a Citation II amp and a low gain pre. You can probably go entirely passive, say 10k volume pot in a small box considering the input load and gain a Citation II would deliver. A mono set of Eico HF-50's would also be a good choice; fine Iron and a good circuit with similar gain structure to the Cit.II.
cheers,
Douglas

What model of 604 are they? (-E, -8G, etc) What cabinet do you have them in? Are you using factory crossovers?
They tend to work best in large boxes. Around 10cuFt for good bass and balance. I have E's and 8G's and I don't think that the amp will change the character of the speaker enough to fix the problems you mention. You should look elsewhere for the solution.
Was the refurbishing done with real Altec parts? I believe Great Plains is the only place to real Altec parts now.

Hello ... <snip> They are too bright, almost caustic. Also it sounds like a high-pass filter is engaged , as instruments in the lower octaves like kick drum and electric bass sound lopped off...

<snip>

Thank you!
Nico

The "caustic" sound you describe could be related to inherent HF driver and horn characteristics. A lot has been written about Altec 604s and 605s in a lot of places inc the AK speaker forum, the Unofficial Altec Lansing site and the Lansing Heritage forum.

Xover eq strategies are one approach to the agressive sonics. Check link below for some reasonably well thought-out xover ideas.
Jeff Markwart's Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~jmarkwart/index.html)
Personally, I don't think your issues will be resolved with amp changes alone. My experience is that a good speaker usually sounds good with a good amp be it SS or tube. The first step is to arrive at a good sounding speaker.

They are altec 604-8g's. They are in a large wooden altec cabinet with big altec high freq attenuator pots on front.

Today I tested the signal chain with a galaxy cricket, and discovered that the right speaker was reverse polarity- I assume this means the cabiet is internally wired wrong. So I flipped the cable on the right cablinet, and the low is back. So are sounding much better... but, I think they have more potential.
I would like to dedicate the crown 300 to headphone system, so...
Thanks for the suggestions,
Any more specifics on what to look for and where are greatly appreciated

The first step is to arrive at a good sounding speaker.

Any suggestions?

I also have some paradigm, which sound too flattering and messy. I like the sound of the altecs, but need to possibly add an equalizer to get euphonics out.

The weakest link, as discussed here, and many other places, are the crossovers. I built a pair of Jeff's and they made all the difference in the world.

Check out Billforts Audio Obsession here:
http://www.wardsweb.org/Billfort/ :thmbsp:

And the Altec Users Board here:
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=3729 :thmbsp:

As far as the cabinets go, the general concensus is that they really need the
correct internal volume. Anything less is crippling to their function. Do a search over at DIYaudio forum here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=6 :thmbsp:

These 604's are a little work to get right, but in the end, they can really perform. :banana:

That being said, some people just plain don't like the sound of horns. Maybe you're one of them? :scratch2:

I second and third the markwart crossovers with the mid attenuation. They made a HUGE difference in the shoutiness of the horns.

Check out this thread:
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic&t=823&f=3729

and

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Vintage%20JBL-UREI%20Electronics/UREI-811.pdf

I'm running 604s (ceramic based) via a pair of Urei 813A speakers that use time-aligned crossovers. Big dynamic sound, not too aggressive but plenty of snap. Right now they are being powered by a pair of rebuilt Dynaco Mark III amplifiers - these can still be gotten fairly cheap. My particular amplifiers were rebuilt using the Poseidon input and SDS power supply boards.

more details on my (cruddy) website.

Thanks for all the info!
I will get to the crossovers at some point too.
Are there any readymade kits or outboard available?
What do you all think of the H.H. Scott LK-150? A suggestion from Ryan at ##################

I am also thinking about Dynaco 70. Will this work well?

I've used 604 8G's with both the Citation II and the McIntosh MC2200. For cranking it and impressing your clients you want the MC2200. For clients with taste the Citation II would probably be better, but you know how people are. The Citation II is a terrific amp, but any 60 watter is going to begin to sound a little stuffed when you crank it, even with 97 dB speakers. Tube amps don't sound clashy when they're over driven, but they do begin to sound a bit stuffed. One of the things the 604 has to offer is dynamics, and the MC2200 will bring that out. That having been said, I would buy a newer Mac 200+ wpc amp with autoformers. The MC2200 is 2nd generation Mac solid state and is no longer serviceable. It's a great amp, but I wouldn't buy it for professional use. Frankly, I don't see why you don't find the Crown 300 suitable for this. I should think it would do the job just fine.

Blifil

One of the things the 604 has to offer is dynamics, and the MC2200 will bring that out. That having been said, I would buy a newer Mac 200+ wpc amp with autoformers. The MC2200 is 2nd generation Mac solid state and is no longer serviceable. It's a great amp, but I wouldn't buy it for professional use. Frankly, I don't see why you don't find the Crown 300 suitable for this. I should think it would do the job just fine.

Blifil

Thanks for the help and info. I suppose they sound okay with the Crown. I haven't heard my 8g's with anything else. My plan was to use the Crown DC-300 for a headphone system in the studio. I was also hoping to find something that makes the altecs sing in a more flattering and euphonic way. I guess I am looking for something that will make the altecs sound "better"- more exciting, rich, and forgiving...

If I am doing the best I can with the DC-300, maybe I should look for another one for the headphone system...

What about the HH Scott LK-150?

I use mine with either single ended 2A3 or 300B amps. They're pretty efficient. Most that use big solid state amps will tell you they need more power. Perhaps Bill F. will ring in on this.

. . . . I was also hoping to find something that makes the altecs sing in a more flattering and euphonic way. I guess I am looking for something that will make the altecs sound "better"- more exciting, rich, and forgiving . . . .

I'll second FRAN604g, the area of most return for effort at this point is the crossover.

Blifil

I agree that the crossovers are very important with these and I loved what the Markwart circuit did for mine.

That being said though, I found that to really get the best out of these (and they have a LOT to offer) you have to carefully build a complimentary system around them and that goes all the way from the source to crossover. For source I prefer vinyl and SACD, CD only got bearable after I started using an AudioNote DAC and compressed digital...well, not for me.

I find the amps affect the performance of 604's in a big way and I definitely want tubes on them - SS delivers an initial 'wow' factor in the bass but it wares thin (pun intended :) ) very quickly and is a marriage I just can't live with for any length of time. These speakers seem to dance on the edge of being overly forward and aggressive much of the time and I find good tubes (for me, a tube DAC, phono-stage, pre-amp and amp) form the best synergy with them.

I do like push-pull tubes on them and lived with a Conrad-Johnson MV-75A1 (75wpc push-pull 6550's) for some time which formed a very smooth, non-fatiguing match with seemingly limitless dynamics. Ultimately though, I prefer the lush, detailed midrange and incredible musical presence you can get with the 604-8G and an SET tube amp. With this speaker's efficiency and for my tastes in my room a 3.5w 2A3 amp is enough (just barely) but a 300B (6w) is more like it. If I was going to mess with one of the more common push-pulls again I'd probably look for a good EL84 amp, they have always been my favorite pentode and I suspect the power would be more than enough for most on these speakers.

Like I said, I am more of recording guy. I am more knowledgable in studio equipment. That said, thank you for the educational replies.
While we are at it,
what do you guys think of the old Paragon system 1 tube preamp. I have been using one of these and think it is a decent pre.
I need more specific direction on where to find my components. Do you guys like using ebay for this stuff, or a specialty store?
Also, any more suggestions on tube amplifiers are very appreciated!

Any ideas on the H.H. Scott LK-150?

p.s.
Are the crossover kits DIY only or can I purchase them ready to install?

p.s.
Are the crossover kits DIY only or can I purchase them ready to install?

They're DIY. Check out his site as posted earlier for more precise information.

Very good. I will look into building the crossovers. I would also like to redo the internal wire in the altecs. It is pretty old and crummy- and the polarity is reversed internally on one cabinets wiring...:drool: Do you know what and where I can find a decent hook up wire that is great performing but not overly expensive. Thanks everyone. Can anyone link me to a site that sells nicely refurbed tube power amps that would work nicely for me?
I don't have much time to get my system set up.
thanks again.

Hello ... I am new here. I posted this is the solid state forum, but I think this is more appropriate. I am recording guy, with an analog studio. I have had these altecs for many years, and recently had them refurbished. I just hooked them up with my Crown D-300A and a Paragon Tube preamp. I like the sound, but this setup needs alot of work. They are too bright, almost caustic. Also it sounds like a high-pass filter is engaged , as instruments in the lower octaves like kick drum and electric bass sound lopped off...

I know these have potential, but need some tips on better preamp / power matches. I would like to relegate the crown 300 to my headphone cue system in the studio, and get something that will sound very FLATTERING with the Altecs... for playing back my mixes loudly, impressing clients etc.,...

Someone recommended a Mcintosh MC2200 or MC2300. Also , someone said to go for a tube power amp like the Pilot 232, Dynaco 70.

I would like to get a preamp that works well with the amp i choose.

I have checked out ebay...but a little lost with hifi stuff. Recording equipment, I know very well. But with hifi stuff, I need some solid direction. Don't want to spend more than $1500 for the pre and power amp. I think I need to buy used.
Any advice?

Thank you!
Nico

As others have said, work on the crossovers. I've lived with 604 Drivers in big boxes for years. They like large rooms, and they absolutely adore 2A3 amps. They are fairly tolerant of most tubed amps, either PP or SET, but as a rule, they aren't fond of Solid State.
You also don't want those things pointed directly towards you, those suckers will rip the flesh off of your face. :yikes: Proper (minimal) toe-in is critical.
Jack

As others have said, work on the crossovers. I've lived with 604 Drivers in big boxes for years. They like large rooms, and they absolutely adore 2A3 amps. They are fairly tolerant of most tubed amps, either PP or SET, but as a rule, they aren't fond of Solid State.
You also don't want those things pointed directly towards you, those suckers will rip the flesh off of your face. :yikes: Proper (minimal) toe-in is critical.
Jack

they are in a large room 20x30 and with minimal toe-in. What is a 2A3 amp?

Can someone direct me toward a specific tube amp for these that is less than $1500?
thanks again, nico

Here's an article on the rebuild of a great Magnavox console amp.

http://gabevee.tripod.com/maggie.html

Good luck!

they are in a large room 20x30 and with minimal toe-in. What is a 2A3 amp?

Can someone direct me toward a specific tube amp for these that is less than $1500?
thanks again, nico

2A3 is a tube type - low powered triode - in single ended it will make a whopping 3.5Ws. PP (class AB) you can squeeze out 12-15Ws.

I have a pair of Altec 604 based speakers and I really like my pair of 60W Dynaco Mark IIIs (6550/KT88 amp) with them. You can buy these NEW as a kit from dynakitparts. There are plenty of options at the $1500 and under price point. Used VTLs, ARC, C-J, etc. I may be in the minority here, but I like to have plenty of extra reserve power. I guess it would depend on the type of music you listen to.

On another note, I recently got a vintage McIntosh 250 solid-state amplifier (with autoformer outputs) and was surprised how good they sound with my 604s.

thanks for the info!
What do you all of this :
http://cgi.ebay.com/HH-Scott-LK150-Stereo-Amp_W0QQitemZ250229408808QQihZ015QQcategoryZ50593Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

thanks for the info!
What do you all of this :
http://cgi.ebay.com/HH-Scott-LK150-Stereo-Amp_W0QQitemZ250229408808QQihZ015QQcategoryZ50593Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've never heard the LK-150, but it reputed to be a fine amplifier.

note that it does use the 7199 input tube, which is getting harder to find.