Apple: The biggest scam in retail electronics?

[Jay.Money]

I'm really **** pissed right now.

About 14 months ago, I picked up a Mac Mini to act solely as a music server (hardly a workout for any computer). At the time, I was quite excited to become a Mac user as I'd heard many good things.

Immediately after setting it up (~5 days or so), the thing starts to emit a loud, audible distortion from the audio outs. I call the Assle support line, they tell me to go down to the local Assle store and they'll take care of it. I won't get in to the shitty attitude on the zit faced twerp working at the tech desk... anyway, they replace the "mainboard", I take it home and guess what: No change still ****. So, I pack it up, take it back, fight to get them to give me new machine (which they finally do).

Like I said, I'm excited to be a new Mac owner, so I overlook this initial bad experience.

Well, after setting back up, ripping a bunch of CDs, I notice that the wireless network reception is flakey. Sometimes its there, sometimes not. Sometimes, if the planets are aligned, the signal is great. But it's not consistent. So, I go out and replace my old, DLink router (which was cheap even 4 years ago) and get what is rated as the best wireless router known to man.

Not much change, all the while my work PC notebook has no problem gaining reception at the same spot in the house.

So again, I take the Mac back over to Zitface. Guess what? He's not able to do anything other than tell me "it's able to connect to our network in the store...".

So back home I go... Set it back up.... Things improve for a few weeks. I'm happy. Not sure what happened, but I'm happy none the less. Until one day, NO SIGNAL. Nuthin. Kaputz.

Reboots provide me one of two things. Either it comes back and the NIC is disabled (don't know why or how, just is), or it comes alive and I have network but only for a few mins (like 3), then nothing again.

As an experiment, I moved the router, so that I can be sure signal is strong. And it is.... For a few mins... immediately after boot up, for about 3 mins. Then nothing.

And guess what. No more warranty. I won't spend another $10 on this pile of ****. I'll UPGRADE to a PC in a heartbeat.

APPLE = JUNK. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE.

Oh yeah, I didn't even get in to the fact that the video out (although HDMI) doesn't scale to my HDTV properly... But a PC will.

Sorry for the long post.

[vinyldavid]

ummmm........IMHO they are only good for multimedia editing and photoshop.

NOTHING ELSE. Well...you can web surf on anything...

[Twenty20Man]

sorry, for your troubles

[Jay.Money]

ummmm........IMHO they are only good for multimedia editing and photoshop.

NOTHING ELSE. Well...you can web surf on anything...

Actually, I can't even surf the net on this thing, unless I wire it to the router.... FAT CHANCE OF THAT. I'm not putting holes in walls to keep this pile of dung around.

[willyrover]

What hype?

Unless you go to the MAC STORE (if such a store exists in Canada) I still only see 2 or 3 Mac models vs. 25-30 PC models in most big box stores. Where exactly are you hearing this "hype"?

[vinyldavid]

Actually, I can't even surf the net on this thing, unless I wire it to the router.... FAT CHANCE OF THAT. I'm not putting holes in walls to keep this pile of dung around.

Well....when they work........

I feel for ya, because those are NOT cheap!

[Clmrt]

Apple users I know = 2.

Both lawyers...

[rsfmotoman]

You definitely have had a bad experience but that doesn't mean all Macs are junk and impossible to work with. :nono:

I have been very happy with all my Macs. :yes:

I have bought cheap two $75 G3 iMacs (CL) and two Mac Minis (CL and Apple Store) and an eMac I scored at Goodwill.

I would never go back to a PeeCee.

But I do admit, it can be frustrating trying to work out computer problems whether you are working with a Mac or a PeeCee. I've been there.

[Nikko75]

I'd have to say the biggest scams in retail electronics would be dryers (heating coils are designed to last 2 years of normal frequent use), cell phones (since when does a circuit board cost hundreds of dollars, I make them for pennies), and home theaters.

[thedelihaus]

Apple was good to me- after a repair on an older G3 laptop that they failed to fix after 3 times, they humbly apologized and gave me a then brand-new G4 laptop for my troubles.

Thing would work for an hour on their bench, then I'd bring it home and it'd work for 2-4 hours, then croak.




Frustrating as heck when you pay a premium for an Apple product, and it doesn't work properly. And yes, some of the workers can get attitudes- I think a combo of both Apple arrogance and a thick skin dealing with some difficult public (I'm not saying that's you), similar to what some service writers for auto makers do, or Ikea workers dealing with customer returns.



In your situation, I think I'd be pretty angry too. Sounds like you got a lemon there and of course the frustration of it rearing it's head after warranty is just salt in the wound.

[Cadillac Kid]

Mac has been good to me. Never had a problem with my G4 or G5. My G5 is used 12 hours a day with ProTools and Final Cut. It is an incredibly reliable machine. I have had problems with PCs that I had to throw out, FU Gateway... FU.

Not really a Mac vs. PC issue, but a case of getting a lemon, like Deli said..

[onepixel]

Jay,
Sorry that your experience with Apple has been a bad one. I've been using MACs and Apple products for 20 years and the one problem I had with the power cord to a laptop was quickly resolved by giving me a new one.

I've been fortunate that all the Apple stores here in Silicon Valley are staffed by an excellent, very knowledgable, cheerfully and helpful people.

Good luck.

[KingBubba]

My supervisor has an apple laptop the burner was replaced three times the motherboard was replaced three times, they finally gave him a new laptop and the motherboard had to be replaced on that one too. I'll stick with my Thinkpads.

[jcmjrt]

In the 20 years I've owned Macs, I've never experienced a single hardware failure. In the same years at work using PCs, I've experienced many hardware issues.

[spartanmanor]

Apples or Oranges all computers can be a pain in the ass at times. I use both and really have no preference as long as I can get the job done.

[John in MA]

The last new ThinkPad I set a client up with went through two motherboards and probably five trips to the factory depot in a few months. Every time it came back something else was wrong or it was missing parts. Lenovo corporate eventually upgraded him to a much better model after I complained enough. Not doing that again. Had a similar experience with Dell.

I haven't found most Apple hardware to be any more or less reliable than other brands overall. Some of their stuff is built quite solidly, usually the pro machines. They've also made some stinkers, like the iMac DVs with power boards made by Goldstar. Software-wise I'd take a Mac over a PC any day. I rarely have any trouble with that end of a Mac.

Everyone produces a few lemons. Especially now that everything's being churned out by Chinese factories without as much quality control.

Only reason I use a PC for daily work is that it's much easier to mix and match desktop parts and get obscure software. Like right now I'm building a new one that'll be going in an 11-bay server case. I use a couple Macs for DTP type stuff. For laptops I use both Mac and PC--if I ever get a newer one it'll be an Intel Mac I can dual-boot OSX and Windows XP.

[pmsummer]

In the 20 years I've owned Macs, I've never experienced a single hardware failure. In the same years at work using PCs, I've experienced many hardware issues.

Apples or Oranges all computers can be a pain in the ass at times.

I work with both platforms, and I can concur with both statements from my personal experience.

Now, lets talk Vista vs. Leopard (or even XP vs. Tiger).

[chebishev]

The one thing I will praise Apple for is there amazing marketing/sales. They manage to sell you more than you really need for twice as much as a PC (not that PC manufacturers are not trying to sell you more than you really need but atleast it is cheaper than MACs). By the way they took an opensource operating system (BSD unix) that is free to download and put their own front end and recompiled parts of it and charge you $200 (Mac OS X Leopard). How is that for a scam?

[Earlsays]

I've never liked macs, or apple products, period. To me, it was like comparing restaraunt grade kitchen appliances to consumer grade stuff...I just never liked anything about them...nothing against them, just opinion.

And I've always heard folks say that Apple is "better for graphics and multimedia and photoshop" I've never had anyone give me a difinitive reason as to WHY this is.

[JustBuyNew]

You used one of the millions of computers apple has built or sold over the years and came to this conclusion? Interesting!

[sauuuuuce]

I have similar storey involving a pc, but won't get into it. Apple's tech and customer service has always taken good care of me. I would call them and explain the whole situation. Warranty on apple stuff is generally one year so you should still be covered. I even got a year on a return MacBook pro. Good luck.

[fotno]

Long time Mac user here... Very long time.

The first Mac (hell the very first computer) I ever used was a 512k Mac. It was the stock box at my art school. FYI, I have the same model in storage that works the same as it did out of the box. Build date? November 1985. Suffice it to say I've owned or used just about every hardware and software iteration that Apple has ever built.

I've had LC's, Quadras, a sweet 3400c Powerbook, an indigo iMac (lasted 6 years running 24/7), and the machine I'm typing this on is a relatively new flat panel iMac that is the quickest, coolest running, and fastest starting (shut down to fully started in 30 seconds) Mac I've ever owned.

I've also worked for businesses that used Windows boxes, and I go all the way back to the earliest iterations of Windows with them.

I say all that in order to establish that I do have a little experience with both of these machines and operating systems.

1: Apple builds machines, all machines can and will break. Apple has built it's share of stinkers, just like all computer companies have. As for Apple support or Apple Stores? Who knows... In all the years I've used Macs, I have never had to call customer support, and I've never been in an Apple Store. I order direct from Apple, and have never had a single problem.

2: Paying a premium? Years ago, I would have agreed with that. Back in the Quadra (700 - 800 - 900) days, when the retail for those machines was $3500, they were exorbitantly priced. With modern Macs running from $700 to $4,000 they pretty much have a price point to suit every one but the most cash strapped.

3: Best graphics machines? Ayup. When it comes to running graphic intensive programs (Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator come to mind), I've never used a PC that can touch a Mac for speed and reliability. For those make their living generating art, I would imagine that a Mac is the platform of choice 90% of the time.

4: The OS? I go back with Apple far enough to have seen just about every iteration of the OS there is. IMO, OSX (I run 10.4.8 currently) is the best OS Apple has ever issued. I have been running OSX since version 10.1, and I have NEVER had it crash. EVER. I've had plenty of programs that were running within it crash, but never the OS. To me, that's worth the price of admission right there.

5: PC vs Mac? Look I don't care what anyone runs. I long ago quit being a Mac-evangelist. The hardware means nothing to me, it's all built by multi-billion dollar businesses out to make money. The simple truth is; I run Macs because I despise the amount of cursing Windows makes me do. If Gateways, Dells, or Tiger Direct sold boxes that would run OSX, I'd be all over them. But they don't and likely never will, so I own Macs.

[rcpmac]

"Warning" I'm a mac user from way back.
I've moved through numerous upgrades over the years since 1987 and have never had a problem. They have always performed solidly and never fail to impress my friends most of whom now have switched. The one exception was a bug I encountered with a G4 tower. I made an appointment with the Apple Genius Bar and dragged the 6 year old tower in. The problem was assessed and resolved right there at the counter with a 30 minute diagnostic - a corrupted 3rd party driver. NO Charge! Free service for a 6 yo computer! Well dang! I was impressed.
The store was crowded! I counted over 50 people in there shopping ipods and laptops mostly. Regarding capabilities and the mention of multimedia and photoshop - Well those are the most demanding apps out there. I personally use my mac for design Vectorworks CAD, Office, Photoshop, and Music and Video production . And oh btw Microsoft Office for the Mac was acclaimed by the industry to be leagues above the PC version. So what else is there? OK there are 1000's more games on the PC if that's your thing.
Cost? A new mini is $599 retail and a 20" imac Core 2 Duo intel imac is $1199 and they won't be obsolete in 3 years - not even close.

[Strangeband]

I've used a variety of Macs at home and at work since 1987 and have only had issues with one, and those were promptly fixed by a local Apple repair shop. I've also had a variety of PCs at work, and there exists an entire infrastructure dedicated to keeping the PCs up and running, making sure the operating system works, installing software, etc.

No doubt you had a had experience, but I don't think your experience is typical.

[dnewma04]

I was a long time mac user from a Mac Plus, to a Mac SE/30, Quadra 840AV, Powercomputing Powertower Pro 250 (mac clone). Around that point, work started providing me with laptops that I would tote home with me. In the 12+ years I used mostly Mac's, I had similar experiences to Joyce, pmsummer and the others that didn't have many issues. In fact, I had no issues with any of mine, even adding an add-on G3 card to the PTpro after a year or so. All of them were phenominally fast, even compared to some windows based graphics machines my friend used with SoftImage when it was released. It was a dual Xeon processor machine and my PTpro G3 ran circles around it when using intensive photoshop filters. I have since used laptops from in order, gateway, IBM, gateway, dell, Lenovo, and Dell. Basically, they have each lasted about one year before some sort of catastrophic hardware failure caused a replacement. One was my fault, slip and fall on the ice took one out. The first IBM (T21) had a motherboard failure (multiple, actually), the first gateway was plagued by cursor control issues and started eating HDs, The second gateway was a 17" monitor version that ran so hot that it couldn't be used on anything but a hard surface. The latest Lenovo (T61) is a pretty solid machine and a good step above the T21. The most recent Dell is what I am using now and it's the best Dell product I have ever used.

If your business dictates PC usage, or if you like having lots of hardware options, or you like gaming, by all means buy a PC. If you want reliability and performance for anything graphics related, I would have a hard time justifying not buying a Mac.

[rcpmac]

Longtime Windows development chief James Allchin wrote in an e-mail to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and company co-founder Bill Gates that the software vendor had "lost sight" of customers' needs and said he would buy a Mac if he wasn't working for Microsoft.

"In my view, we lost our way," Allchin, the co-president of Microsoft's platform and services division, wrote in an e-mail dated Jan. 7, 2004. The e-mail was presented as evidence late last week in the Iowa antitrust trial, Comes v. Microsoft Corp.

"I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems our customers face are. I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that does not translate into great products."

[pmsummer]

By the way they took an opensource operating system (BSD unix) that is free to download and put their own front end and recompiled parts of it and charge you $200 (Mac OS X Leopard). How is that for a scam?

That's rather like saying a Porsche 550 Spyder is the same as a 1949 Volkswagen... and that's being generous.

[pmsummer]

Can we talk about speaker wires and interconnects now?

[ozmoid]

Can we talk about speaker wires and interconnects now?

Only if no one brings up coathangers. :smoke:

[Njord Noatun]

Can we talk about speaker wires and interconnects now? How about the Technics SA-1000?

[javajam12]

I use both Mac and PC. I have done graphic design on both Mac and PC and also have done music recording on both. I currently use a G5 PowerMac from 2003 at home for almost everything I do. I have not had a lick of trouble with it. In fact, my only complaint is the unavailability of good financial software. I am used to Microsoft Money and the only Mac software available is the lousy Quicken, which is just positively terrible. I use my PC for finances and any light office duties. My 2003 G5 is miles faster than any PC I've ever used. Why? It doesn't use Windows. Windows is a bloated, archaic operating system. It runs a TON of programs in the background and the only way to get any real speed out of the PC is to find out which ones you can safely shut off.
Mac OS X is so much better than any Windows OS it isn't even funny. This is
why (as the question was posed earlier) Mac is so much better at graphics
than a PC, simply less crap competing for CPU power, plus better efficiency
in the process. YES, they are expensive and will take some time to figure some things out but Macs are worth it. So if you take pleasure in your PC, by all means do so. I'm really enjoying my G5. Unfortunately, the Mini was
not the best product to buy due to it being based on old architecture and I am
sorry to hear it caused so much trouble to the original poster. Doesn't sound
like a good time. Good luck.

[chebishev]

That's rather like saying a Porsche 550 Spyder is the same as a 1949 Volkswagen... and that's being generous.

You can choose not to believe it but even the hardcore Mac users where I work know that it is true. They are using the BSD unix kernal in their new OS this is fact not something that was made up. The BSD operating system is continually being updated to run on modern hardware and is far from a 1949 Volkswagen you compare it to. Where do you think the claim of "based on Unix" came from. If you choose not to believe it, that is your choice, but you should take the oppotunity to learn more about the operating system you know and love.

[ossodiseppia]

I had a bad experience at an Apple store. I'll never go back. My friend bought a new 80 GB iPod. I got it home and plugged it in to charge it and load some tunes. It stayed plugged in all night. In the morning, it showed the battery was dead. I took it back to the store and chatted with the store manager. He informed me that I couldn't load any music because the battery was dead. No $hit! He talked down to me like I was an idiot. He managed to get a bit of a charge in it. I took it home and had the same issue. I took it back for a refund and went to CompUSA and bought one from them.

[sauuuuuce]

You can choose not to believe it but even the hardcore Mac users where I work know that it is true. They are using the BSD unix kernal in their new OS this is fact not something that was made up. The BSD operating system is continually being updated to run on modern hardware and is far from a 1949 Volkswagen you compare it to. Where do you think the claim of "based on Unix" came from. If you choose not to believe it, that is your choice, but you should take the oppotunity to learn more about the operating system you know and love.

I think what he is getting at is that your are understating the "improvement" apple made. We all now its based on unix. And how much is the loaded version of vista? Which is more of a rip off to you?

[chebishev]

I think what he is getting at is that your are understating the "improvement" apple made. We all now its based on unix. And how much is the loaded version of vista? Which is more of a rip off to you?

Don't get me wrong I think vista is a rip off too. That is why I have been using opensource linux at home for common computing functions (web browsing, office applications, picture viewing and editing) for the last 8 months. Yes I still have some apps specific to windows, in which case yes I admit to using the "inferior" XP. But, when they get the core of the operating system for free you would think they would cut you a break on the price.

[drknstrmyknight]

It's a mass produced item, with engineering designed to maximize profit.
Intermittent problems are always a nightmare, but in my experience, persistence pays. You have to weigh you time against ultimately getting a reliable machine.

[pmsummer]

You can choose not to believe it but even the hardcore Mac users where I work know that it is true. They are using the BSD unix kernal in their new OS this is fact not something that was made up. The BSD operating system is continually being updated to run on modern hardware and is far from a 1949 Volkswagen you compare it to. Where do you think the claim of "based on Unix" came from. If you choose not to believe it, that is your choice, but you should take the oppotunity to learn more about the operating system you know and love.

Look up the Porsche Spyder (it's what James Dean died in). It was "based" on the 1949 Volkswagen platform. The analogy is accurate.

I've watched the development from NEXT (first attempt) to BSD closely.

You are vastly underestimating what Apple has done with OSX, and I presume just repeating propaganda you heard somewhere.

Don't point ignorance in my direction on this matter. Thank you.

[pmsummer]

P.S. Sorry if I sound cranky. I am.

[Brian]

Well, I've not been impressed either with the Mac service or hardware. My kid wanted an iBook for school so we sprung for it and and within a month it started having problems. We brought it in to the Mac service center and they proceeded to blow it up part by part and finally after them having it for more than 5 weeks I called Mac got a run around and finally convinced someone to look up the unit and had them read off the parts list of replaced components and it sounded like maybe there was 1 original screw. They finally agreed to a replacement. In the meantime we had it 1 month and Mc had it 2. They replaced it but we got only the balance of the original 1 year warranty rather than an extended time. The 2nd unit 1 month after the warranty ran started acting wonky and we had the Mac store test it and they said it needed a new motherboard that would cost within a couple of hundred dollars of the original price. I discussed with the replacement of the board under warranty and we reviewed the history of the first machine but to no avail. They'd not budge. We did learn the original unit's history had been wiped from the computer and the s/n was now in the name of someone else. We replaced the unit with an HP b/c they are used in business and I've always had good experience with them. The iBook has been relegated as my evening web surfer and e-mail machine waiting for it to die. We were not confident it just would not croak. Now admittedly, I am still using it and it seems to be okay and the original problem causing us to seek out Mac help appears to have gone away.

As for the OS X, I'm a Xenix and UNIX person and not particularly in love with MS operating systems. Goes back to the days before DOS when I was on Xenix systems. OS X for all it's glitz and glamor just does not strike me as more than a Linux system that is somewhat more refined in user interface but having also an OpenSuse 10.3 system, the spread of sophistication between interfaces is shrinking. In fact, I use SeaMonkey on each and NeoOffice on the Mac and OpenOffice on the Linux box. I am finding I am trying to get the Mac and Linux system more alike in apps and operations than trying to compare and get the Mac or XP system to operate similarly. I'm beginning to think of Mac as little more than a Linux or UNIX commercial system. Now it is on an Intel box and positioned between the Linux and MS systems, it will be interesting to see how the Apple OS will continue to develop. It is interesting to see that the UNIX/Linux based systems occupy both the low end of the market and the high end of the market with MS now in the middle. If the market puts it all together at some point and Apple and Linux start working together, MS may start finding itself really squeezed especially if web apps continue to grow and the web does not get caught up in MS proprietary formats.

[chebishev]

Look up the Porsche Spyder (it's what James Dean died in). It was "based" on the 1949 Volkswagen platform. The analogy is accurate.

I've watched the development from NEXT (first attempt) to BSD closely.

You are vastly underestimating what Apple has done with OSX, and I presume just repeating propaganda you heard somewhere.

Don't point ignorance in my direction on this matter. Thank you.

Not an auto buff or huge james dean fan, so I honestly missed your analogy. My bad and sincerely admit ignorance. However you need to understand my comparison. Look at screenshot of freeBSD OS taken from www.freebsd.org. This is a mature operating system (free for download), constantly updated, running x windows on modern hardware nothing like your NEXT reference. Not propaganda, I have honestly used BSD, PC windows (XP), Linux and Mac OS X (mostly installed and configured for friends with macs). A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Elfasto]

As a long time Apple user, I indeed am sorry that some of you are having problems with Apple products. I guess you picked up some machines made on Friday afternoon or something.

All I can say is that my Indigo iMac 500 MHz machine has run about 12 hours per day, 7 days per week, 365 days per year for the last 8 years. It has gone thru 1 CD-RW drive, which I've replaced with a slot loading Superdrive, and I upgraded the HDD drive from 20 gig to 160 gig, not because it failed, but because 20 gigs is smaller than my iPod (eek). The computer has not failed....EVER.

I'll not bash PC's. I will not do that and cause a flame war, but my next computer will be Apple.

[John in MA]

You've been running a slot-loading iMac for eight years and it still works? Wow. I got the point where I was swapping piles of burned out analog boards in those things. Bad capacitors and not enough cooling designed into the system.

[WilCruiser]

As a software designer I can say that Apple typically gets the "user experience" better than others. Microsoft tends to get "configurability" better than others. There's a big ugly gap in between.

In the "Biz" we have a quote:
You want Quick, Quality, or Quantity... pick two. Meaning - Deliver quickly, Work without flaws, or Lots of features. You can't make money if you get all three. It's about where you place your compromises.

I love the usability of Apple stuff, but I'm not wild about what I can make it do. Hardware quality of Ipod and other recent equipment isn't overwhelmingly impressive either. I love the flexibility of Microsoft stuff, but it tends to be a pain in the ass to learn & use. Quality is often suspect due to the broad footprint it covers too.

The relative simplicity of quality analog hifi gear is a thing of beauty. The complexity of digital computing products is probably unfair as a base of comparison. This is why I've come home to the beauty of the old-school and it's capabilities. I probably can't get away from the digital world professionally, but personally I feel I can get much closer to the three Q's - at least in the realm of audio - with the vintage stuff than anything I can get as of yet which depends on newer, more complex technologies.

[chebishev]

OS X for all it's glitz and glamor just does not strike me as more than a Linux system that is somewhat more refined in user interface but having also an OpenSuse 10.3 system, the spread of sophistication between interfaces is shrinking.

Thank You. Someone else understand the virtues of opensource operating systems like linux and unix. Glad to know if I am nuts at least I have company.

[Elfasto]

You've been running a slot-loading iMac for eight years and it still works? Wow. I got the point where I was swapping piles of burned out analog boards in those things. Bad capacitors and not enough cooling designed into the system.

I'll take your word for the analog boards. No experience in them so far.

[Jay.Money]

Allright, allright. A couple of beers, a nice steak and I'm feeling better now. Didn't mean to create a swirling cesspool of negativity here. I was just a little frustrated at the time.

For the record, I was always pleasant when dealing with the Apple folk, I understand that you get more with sugar than with vinegar. And my aplogies to the kid I referred to as Zitface.

So, I also know that my experience is not the same as everyones. I've actually had a fantastic customer service experience with Dell (which is not the norm).

That said, I'm not happy with the Mac or the service.

[Elfasto]

Allright, allright. A couple of beers, a nice steak and I'm feeling better now. Didn't mean to create a swirling cesspool of negativity here. I was just a little frustrated at the time.

For the record, I was always pleasant when dealing with the Apple folk, I understand that you get more with sugar than with vinegar. And my aplogies to the kid I referred to as Zitface.

So, I also know that my experience is not the same as everyones. I've actually had a fantastic customer service experience with Dell (which is not the norm).

That said, I'm not happy with the Mac or the service.

No need to apologize. If you are indeed unhappy with something, then by all means complain. I'm in the same boat as you are with HP.

[wajobu]

Well, sorry for your troubles and thanks for Post #46...glad that you're feeling a LITTLE better. Like others, I have used Apples from the beginning...the Apple I, then II, IIc, then IIe, etc. to most all of the Macs (typing this on a very handy little MacBook...and then later edited on an iPhone).

I don't and won't use computers for music servers...yet...my music is still from vinyl and CDs (um...well, I do have an iPod with iTunes, BUT prefer the quality of other formats). I've had decent luck with the Airport and Express, but understand the limitations (local interference and building configuration CAN affect performance). Every computer (and technology) will have limitations...I also have PCs/Windows at work and a substantial server network...costs thousands to maintain every year (with constant software/hardware issues...YUCK!).

Frankly, I've had fewer complaints and lower repair costs with Macs, but that's my experience.

I hope that it gets better for you!

[AnalogDigit]

I build my own computers using spare parts. I don't have too many problems, I have one old Pentium III computer I use as a music server with Diamond Cut DC 6 software, M-Audio Revolution sound card, 3 - hard drives and Media Jukebox which is a shareware program which plays all the songs stored on the computer. I can even burn CD's on this unit. All my systems run Windows 2000 which works quite well with no problems. I do not like XP or Vista which cost WAY too much, has too many problems.

I have nothing against Apple, but I think Windows machines you have a lot more choices, by way of parts and software. With parts anyone can scrounge up and put together a good music server very cheap.

[dew042]

What hype?

Unless you go to the MAC STORE (if such a store exists in Canada) I still only see 2 or 3 Mac models vs. 25-30 PC models in most big box stores. Where exactly are you hearing this "hype"?

Many Best Buys have atleast 8 models of Mac's now and their own little Mac playland. And both Dell and Gateway. Lenovo is the only holdout.

As to Macs -- they are great at what they do well. For many people are easy to do and fits all of their basic needs well. Well designed for sure. Personally, the interface is confusing for me, and the price premium is a turn off. Based on my needs, flexibility and variety of cutting edge hardware and support is important and Macs do not excel in either area.

dew.

[John in MA]

I'll take your word for the analog boards. No experience in them so far.

The board on top of the chassis behind the CRT is prone to failure. Mainly the high voltage section that powers the tube. Not much in the way of ventilation.

They're tough to replace, now that it's a $75 computer I don't get much work doing that anymore.

[Clarence]

I had a similar connection issue with my MBP, and it ended up being the cable companys shitty modem. They replaced it and it now works fine. But it drove me nuts for 3 months.

The hardware leaves a little to be desired, I've owned mine for 1 year and its already had an optical drive replaced, under warranty at a retail store.

The asshole kid at the genius bar and the warranty work "appointment scheduling"? You can keep em. :thumbsdn:

I burrowed in with a cute sounding chick that picked up the phone when I called the Apple Store, asked for a little help, and got taken care of no problem. :D

I still love my Apple computer.

[Dave C]

Talking on a G4 right now. I've had this one since 2001, never an issue with anything. I work with PC's at work all day, it's nice to sit down at the Mac in the evening.

[jefe vt]

I just started a post on how I love my mac and the airport express. I am on my fourth mac, and I have never had any trouble, but I do know people who have. I think it's kinda funny how it's not usually the machines that have problems, but specific people that just seem to get the wrong end of the stick. A good friend of mine had a macbook, It s$%t the bed shortly after getting it, and it was quickly replaced. The next one gave her the same trouble. She is now on machine three, and is still having trouble. I never had an issue with my g4 tower, my g3 ibook, my g5 imac, or my MacBookPro. I guess I just had good luck. I love the mac operating system, and I don't think I could ever go back.

On a side note. Many of my friends in Seattle work for microsoft, and they all now use macs, just running vista and osx side by side. These guys are balls deep in computers all day long, and they all swear by the mac hardware so there must be something to it.

Anyway sorry for your troubles, and I hope you have better luck in the future.

[Jay.Money]

No need to apologize. If you are indeed unhappy with something, then by all means complain. I'm in the same boat as you are with HP.

I shouldn't be complaining to you guys, though.

Fly your Realistic colours with pride!

[T-800]

I duno, I have a mix of apples and pc's. The 4 PC's all run linux and one apple runs Leopard and 2 run tiger. Oh and one older (RISC)Sun server running Solaris 10. PCs are a mix of Ubuntu and Suse.

I'v never had any issues, all on a cheap-O wireless router. I'll use anything for an OS except for the MS products. many many years of Windows Network admin has turned me away from the software giant. Just a personal choice... no other reason.

I think if your happy with what you got, run it, if not, there are tons of option out there, find one you like and stick with it.

We don't all have to like the same thing... that is what make each of us, us.

Just my $.02

T

[pmsummer]

OT: Anyone who uses a BA150 in their avatar is OK with me. ;)

[slow_jazz]

We have a Mac at work for the marketing department. They never have a problem with it... All makes and manufacturers eventually turn out a lemon. I'm sorry they refuse to make it up to you...

[chebishev]

OT: Anyone who uses a BA150 in their avatar is OK with me. ;)
Thanks. Always good to hear about another BA fan. Lets move out of this thread and back to some audio. :thmbsp:

[douglas751]

OK... you guys are right. PC's are much better. Enjoy your Windows.

[Brian]

Just found out GNUCash is available on Windows, Linux and Mac so 1 step closer togetting out of Windows. Only holdouts are tax and my contact manager/billing system.

[tfarney]

The problem with windows PCs is windows. Period. If you're willing to spend as much on the hardware as you'd spend on a Mac, the quality will be comparable. But you still have to deal with Windows. Vista is at least two generations behind OSX and still full of bugs a year after its release. There is no excuse for it beyond the kind of incompetence that is created, even in competent people, when they work beneath the weight of a huge, lumbering organization that has forgotten that they exist to serve customers. Sometimes my experiences with the Apple store are really good. Sometimes they're a bit frustrating. But there is an Apple store. There is no Windows store, and my most frustrating experiences at the Genius Bar are better than any luck I had getting Windows/PC support from Best Buy. Therein lies the other problem with Windows, beyond being a dysfunctional mess of an operating system: it is divorced from its hardware. No one supports both. Which is like servicing your car...but not it's engine. Insane.

If you need to use some specialized Windows software that won't even run on a core duo mac and are, therefore, doomed to either use Windows all the time or keep two machines, you have my sympathies.

Tim

[KentTeffeteller]

Gentlemen,

I approach this thread with no complete allegiance to either side. I use both Windows machines and Macintoshes at home and work. I do agree with Windows Vista being a bloated, inferior OS. I like Windows 2000 and XP better for jobs which need Windows. I have had superb machines running Windows and Mac OS. I have had lemons running both. I still use a G3 PowerBook which has been dropped 4 times and refuses to die. I have had a iBook G4 which went through 3 keyboards, a slot loading CDRW/DVD drive, and a motherboard. Apple customer service has always been friendly and good to deal with. I have had good success with Sony Vaios and IBM Thinkpads. I have had decent Dells. There's good and bad in all computers and the companies who make them and support them.

[pmsummer]

I simply hate all computers: the good, the bad and the bloated.



Being a Luddite means never having to call tech support.







P.S. This message is appearing by my magick box.

[grateful]

If you buy your computer at Bestbuy what kind of support would you expect? Macs are overpriced propritary machines that are marketed to upscale consumers who have been tricked by the biggest huckster of all time.

[pmsummer]

Macs are overpriced propritary machines that are marketed to upscale consumers who have been tricked by the biggest huckster of all time.

You are, of course, referring to McIntosh Laboratories, right?

[dew042]

If you need to use some specialized Windows software that won't even run on a core duo mac and are, therefore, doomed to either use Windows all the time or keep two machines, you have my sympathies.

Tim

Specialized software? Considering that Apple is the king of specialized software that's an amusing comment.

The fact is, that although Macs are great at what they do, if Apple's hyper controlled approach to hardware and software roll out was adopted industry wide, the evolution of consumer technology would grind to a halt. The makers of hardware and software, if asked to go through some Apple sanctioned vetting and test process would lose money and the financial incentive for progress would be lessened. OS X is a niche product, and its ingenious, but everything that makes it special would cease to exist if it was asked to support every piece of hardware and third party software developers. Heck, you want to talk about painful -- you should try to get many of Apple's products to play nice with other PCs and networking devices. As a member of the computer support world, I cringe anytime a Apple product is asked to have ANY level of compatibility with another product not made by Apple.

Let's also remember that software in this day and age develops and grows with the surrounding technology. OS X is not a monolithic term -- its on it fifth iteration with 10+ OS updates in between each of those - it gets pretty confusing pretty quickly to keep track. I will say that OSX Leopard is great and really shows a well polished, functional product.

Then again Windows XP has developed into a pretty darn good OS as well. Its coming up its third iteration with SP3 due to be released. Yeah, it wasn't perfect at first and when it was first released it ran slower on the hardware of the day in comparison to Windows ME, but it developed into one of the most versatile and functional OSes ever. I am not saying MS is the poster boy for effective support, but given the needs of the consumer and the demand for ever increasing new technologies and compatibility its just short of amazing how good XP has become.

With the release of Vista SP1 many of the performance issues have been resolved and the current generation of hardware is running it very well. To date the overwhelming source of Vista instability has stemmed directly from poorly developed software, and poorly supported hardware. Frequently I find that users are using driver disks and software from older version of Windows and they are appalled when informed that old software may not work on their new shiny PCs -- that is the cross MS bears. Its kinda like expecting that the air filter that you bought for your '66 Tbird work in your new 2005 Tbird. Vista has loads of benefits as well, and has just started to reach its potential. To say that Vista is bloated because it actually put its memory to use (empty memory is a wasted resource folks) and actively optimizes itself shows a distinct lack of understanding on how the OS is designed.

I know its not an en vogue thing to be a Microsoft defender, but if the roles were reversed we would all complain about the exact same problems from Apple.

dew.

[Kuma]

We use PCs and Mac - for business and personal applications. But really, the only reason we keep the PC is because it runs MS Office software which allows us to communicate with "the other half." We really prefer the iMac.

We did have a HD replacement under warranty with our first iMac - that was troubling, but it was accomplished at no cost (and no attitude) and it's been splendid ever since. In fact, they even upgraded our OS.

In comparison, I've got a Sony Vaio laptop that bought the farm 13 months after purchase. It's propped up at one end of my LP shelf to keep the corners of my jackets from bending.

Anyway, not a single problem with the iMac since that HD replacement two years ago. It's doubles as our everyday computer, and for business homework sessions running the Adobe Creative Suite software. We do web applications, email campaigns, and print documents - and never a crash since that first episode.

In fact, we're so happy with the Mac way of doing things, we got another one for the shop - this time a refurbished 17" iMac for only $800 - and it's even better than the first one.

Anything can go wrong when you have more computing power sitting on your desk (or lap) than what it took to put Apollo 11 on the moon - whether OS or Windows. But my personal opinion is that once you go Mac (assuming it works to begin with) - you never go back.

[auralfixaton]

I simply hate all computers: the good, the bad and the bloated.



Being a Luddite means never having to call tech support.







P.S. This message is appearing by my magick box.

All things made by humans eventually fail.Computers Hi-Fi etc.
Laptops or compact computers fail more to my experience however.If you cram all those parts into a tiny chassis they are more likely to fail.
If you had a desktop Mac or PC you would be able to replace the parts that fail or are intermittent same as changing a flaky preamp.
Maybe setting up a network at home to share your music with a central computer with clients to play it may be a better option than a self contained unit.
PS3,Xbox 360 or a hacked Xbox may be options.
All said however OSX is a great OS.

[grateful]

Sony Vaios are the pits. No wonder you had trouble.

[botrytis]

Specialized software? Considering that Apple is the king of specialized software that's an amusing comment.

The fact is, that although Macs are great at what they do, if Apple's hyper controlled approach to hardware and software roll out was adopted industry wide, the evolution of consumer technology would grind to a halt. The makers of hardware and software, if asked to go through some Apple sanctioned vetting and test process would lose money and the financial incentive for progress would be lessened. OS X is a niche product, and its ingenious, but everything that makes it special would cease to exist if it was asked to support every piece of hardware and third party software developers. Heck, you want to talk about painful -- you should try to get many of Apple's products to play nice with other PCs and networking devices. As a member of the computer support world, I cringe anytime a Apple product is asked to have ANY level of compatibility with another product not made by Apple.

dew.

People forget there were Apple clones at one time - PowerPC anyone? They were faster, cheaper, and generally better than anything Apple came up with. When Steve Jobs came back into Apple he stopped that because Apple was losing at their own game.

Yes, OS X is on what iteteration 10? And at 129.00 dollars each one - if it was 10 - that is 1290 dollars you have paid for software upgrades - think about that.

[sauuuuuce]

If you buy your computer at Bestbuy what kind of support would you expect? Macs are overpriced propritary machines that are marketed to upscale consumers who have been tricked by the biggest huckster of all time.

I don't think my lifestyle, income, views, etc make me an upscale consumer. I wasn't tricked. Really I am whitetrash. So if whitetrash is up scale now....well........then I guess I am upscale. I prefer a mac for most things. A mac is proprietary but not overpriced. At least the iMac, Macbooks and the mini are not over priced. I am undecided on the Mac Pro. They seem a little lofty.