Question for CR-3020 Owners...

[SoCal Sam]

I have a question for CR-3020 owners. My newly acquired CR-3020 needs a lot of volume turn to start pushing watts through my NS-1000M's. I have the knob well past 12 o'clock before the meters start reading 10 watts output. It's plenty loud by then but I've never had any amp past 12 o'clock so I'm wondering if your CR-3020 does this?

BTW, it sounds great with no distortion.

[theblackknight]

I have a question for CR-3020 owners. My newly acquired CR-3020 needs a lot of volume turn to start pushing watts through my NS-1000M's. I have the knob well past 12 o'clock before the meters start reading 10 watts output. It's plenty loud by then but I've never had any amp past 12 o'clock so I'm wondering if your CR-3020 does this?

BTW, it sounds great with no distortion.

my CR-820 does this too. try turning yours to the 3 o'clock position, then it should provide enough power.:smoke:

[eedork]

My CR-620 is the same way also. It's usually at about 11 o'clock.

Funny thing is, the CR-420 I have is much different. It's cranking at about 9 o'clock.

On both receivers I usually have the variable loudness at around 5.

-Matt

EDIT- I meant to say CR-420 in that third sentence . . .

[Mark B]

I don't think I've ever pushed 10 watts with my CR-3020's. The vast majority of my listening is well under 1 watt.

[Raphael]

My 3020 is the same also. Page 18 in the manual gives some info but the graph only shows s/n ratio information. Given the degree to which Yamaha invested in technical accuracy in it's ultimate receiver--I suspect that the volume attenuation is scaled to reflect a truer decibel progression with mid-scale (5) being normal to high music listening levels (listener dependent) and the perceived loudness realistically at a high curve from there (I dare you to peg it clockwise!:D). They may have gone this route for both scale accuracy and as a passive way of circuit protection from powering up at volume. It greatly reduces the surge on speakers/circuits since the typical person that does not zero their volume prior to start-up will at least turn it down to the first quarter of range (out of habit). Since the unit is accurately scaled--the real volume and resulting power surge ends up being much closer to zero vs. other manufacturer's components.

I think it's an outstanding concept!:thmbsp:

[Fred Longworth]

On the CR-3020, it is imperative that the holddown screws for the TO-220 driver transistors in the power amp circuit be serviced. This involves burnishing surfaces, adding star washers, tightening them thoroughly and securing with Japanese "green glue" or similar.

Failure to do this will often result in "cooked" protection relay contacts.

Fred

[superdog]

My recently acquired 2020 is kind of similar.I am having second thoughts about Yamahas.I don't know it just seems maybe I am used to Pioneer and Sansuis.I had mentioned before in posts about my 620 being the most undepowered 35 wpc I have ever heard.

[merrylander]

ARe you guys all tending toward deafness? No joke, we don't run any of our four Yammies past 10 O'Clock maximum.

CR-1000 - NS670s
CR-2020 - Polk Monitor 7Bs
CR-2040 - NS670s + YST sub
CR-800 - Polk Monitor 10Bs

And that's with ears in the seventies.

[Art K.]

My recently acquired 2020 is kind of similar.I am having second thoughts about Yamahas.I don't know it just seems maybe I am used to Pioneer and Sansuis.I had mentioned before in posts about my 620 being the most undepowered 35 wpc I have ever heard.

Certainly understand where you're coming from. My Sansui 6060 never even warmed up driving my 4 ohm B&W's where my Yamaha CR-820 does. It doesn't get hot but just warms up relative to volume. However this made me think that somehow my Sansui was superior....until I listened to them one after the other using the same gear, speakers and sources...my 820 flat blew away the 6060 for sound quality to my ears. I was very surprised. Still the Yamaha power specs do seem a bit optimistic.

[Sasquatch2]

Have you defeated the Audio Mute switch? (-20db on my CR-2020)

[Art K.]

I don't have the same volume control issues as the other folks...my 820 is good and loud at 10:00.

[P. Shivers]

ARe you guys all tending toward deafness? No joke, we don't run any of our four Yammies past 10 O'Clock maximum.

That's been my experience too. Except mine rarely gets past 9:00 on the dial. I had to turn down the gain knobs on my M-4, just so I could actually use more of the volume control on my C-4. My CR-2020 gets plenty loud with minimal volume.

[eedork]

Maybe the volume pots out of tolerance . . . I definitely notice the difference between the CR-620 I'm listening to now and a CR-420 that I also have. At 9 or 10 o'clock the 420 is cranking good and loud. The 620 at 9 or 10 is very quiet in comparison and isn't is as loud as the 420 (at 9) until maybe 11 or 12 o'clock.

I think they both sound fantastic, so I don't think there's really anything wrong with the 620.

The tuner on these things is awesome.

-Matt

[Soran]

Obviously the yamaha CR-3020 has not the power that the other ones have. with my RX-1603 and my SX-1980 i just have to turn my volume knob a few db to be satisfied. when i was testing the cr-3020 i was immediatly at full power. i wanted more but it was all the yamaha could give. it has a small power supply and two mini elcos. at high volume the cr-3020 is not even compareble with the big rotel and pioneer, but of course that is not a normal listening level anymore. i also noticed that the pioneer stays very cool, the rotel warms a little bit up and the Yamaha gets very hot hot. i sold it all and kept the pioneer :D

[KR7600]

The CR3020 is rated at 160 watts per channel. The RX-1603 is rated 180 watts per channel and the SX-1980 is rated at 270 watts per channel. The SX-1980 is over 100 watts more powerful than a CR3020. I think a more fair comparison would be with an SX-1250. Driving the same speakers, Infinity RS4B's the CR 3020 and the SX-1250 are about the same(I have 3 1250's and they are all about the same, so it is not an anomaly). My CR3020 gets warm at normal listen levels but not hot. My SX-1980's(I have 2) driving a set of Quantum 2's at the 10-11 position gets the cooling fins HOT(180 degrees F-measured with a laser thermometer). The SX-1980's are more powerful but the sound is better from my 1280's and 1250's. My Concept 16.5's are pretty powerful, I rarely turn them past the the 9 position even driving Ohm 2's. I listen to mainly now a Yamaha R9 driving a set of Quantum 3's and a Kenwood KR9050/Marantz 2500 driving a set of Ohm Walsh 4's.

[SoCal Sam]

Obviously the yamaha CR-3020 has not the power that the other ones have. with my RX-1603 and my SX-1980 i just have to turn my volume knob a few db to be satisfied. when i was testing the cr-3020 i was immediatly at full power. i wanted more but it was all the yamaha could give. it has a small power supply and two mini elcos. at high volume the cr-3020 is not even compareble with the big rotel and pioneer, but of course that is not a normal listening level anymore. i also noticed that the pioneer stays very cool, the rotel warms a little bit up and the Yamaha gets very hot hot. i sold it all and kept the pioneer :D

Soran, you sold your RX-1603??!! I am a current owner of all three receivers you mention and my experience with the volume knob is similar to yours. My RX-1603 and SX-1980 barely get above room temp while my CR-3020 runs a hair warmer. I think your example was not right.

The CR3020 is rated at 160 watts per channel. The RX-1603 is rated 180 watts per channel and the SX-1980 is rated at 270 watts per channel. The SX-1980 is over 100 watts more powerful than a CR3020. I think a more fair comparison would be with an SX-1250. Driving the same speakers, Infinity RS4B's the CR 3020 and the SX-1250 are about the same(I have 3 1250's and they are all about the same, so it is not an anomaly). My CR3020 gets warm at normal listen levels but not hot. My SX-1980's(I have 2) driving a set of Quantum 2's at the 10-11 position gets the cooling fins HOT(180 degrees F-measured with a laser thermometer). The SX-1980's are more powerful but the sound is better from my 1280's and 1250's. My Concept 16.5's are pretty powerful, I rarely turn them past the the 9 position even driving Ohm 2's. I listen to mainly now a Yamaha R9 driving a set of Quantum 3's and a Kenwood KR9050/Marantz 2500 driving a set of Ohm Walsh 4's.

KR7600, that's an awesome collection of Monster Receivers you have. I have heard them all except for the KR9050 and still own all of them except the SX-1250, which I sold because of condition issues. All have volume knob that give noticeable increases in power with a small twist. IIRC, the smallest noticeable increase the human ear can detect is 3 dB and that requires a doubling of power. So, receivers like the 16.5 are increasing power exponentially which is why I never get close to ten o'clock. In fact, the 16.5 is very difficult to fine tune with the volume knob and I have to adjust the variable loudness, which is not a good option as this changes the frequency curve.

As others have suggested, the CR-3020 volume could be linear power which means that no much appears to be happening with a twist. This is not necessarily bad as the fine tuning of volume is much easier. Perhaps, I have to get used to the volume position being past 12 because this is disaster for any other receiver.

[Teron]

Where do you guys have your loudness set to? 10???

Also, what source? Makes a difference. CD player if I hit 10 o clock on the volume with loudness set to 5 i'll start overload light flickering on my CR-2040. At that point the tweeters are wreaking havoc on my poor ears anyhow so it rarely goes above 9 o clock.

Now, if I hook up an ipod, I have to have the volume up at 12 or 1 o clock for volume comparable to that of the cd player.

TT on the CR-2040 is also 10-11 o clock on the volume knob. Loudness 5.

I adjust loudness knobs differently depending on room, speakers, mood.
I followed Yamaha's instructions. Set the volume as high as you'd want it, then adjust with the loudness knob. I'm typically around 10 o clock and loudness at 5 +/-
iPod use does require adjustment.
Even on my AX-550 through computer, I have to have it higher. I have a EQ-70 so volume is 10 o clock but the EQ helps a lot. I also typically have iTunes at 1/2 or 3/4 max. I also have pure direct on so loudness does nothing. If I turn the EQ off I'd have to go to 12-2. If I go to 12 right now it's way too loud.

My CR-2020 on FM or CD rarely ever sees higher than 10-11 o clock.

Hook the ipod shuffle to the CR-2020 and I have to go to noon-1.

CR-3020 not currently being used but I know even with that it was same as the others, never more than 11 o clock max(though I recall going to noon with some massive Yamaha speakers I once owned and still miss). Had to go higher with the ipod though.

-EDIT and if you're driving Dynaco A25s...well then the knob could very well be 12-1.

I have to crank the volume a bit on ANY receiver with the Dynacos.

So...what speakers are you using, what source, where's the loudness set to???

When I had NS-1000Ms that sort of worked I recall noon being painful. at loudness 1. loudness 5 bearable but still too high. Then again, I'm close quarter listening. What size room 20x30 and 15 feet away from the speakers?

[archie2]

I hope you have understanding neighbors or live in a remote area. I have a CR 2020 (105 wpc)and a R-100 (100 wpc) and rarely if ever push more than 3 watts continuous through them.

[tarior]

I've been running a CR 1020 through JBL L212s, and I have to turn it pretty far to the right to get the sound I want.

[SoCal Sam]

Where do you guys have your loudness set to? 10???

Also, what source? Makes a difference. CD player if I hit 10 o clock on the volume with loudness set to 5 i'll start overload light flickering on my CR-2040. At that point the tweeters are wreaking havoc on my poor ears anyhow so it rarely goes above 9 o clock.

Now, if I hook up an ipod, I have to have the volume up at 12 or 1 o clock for volume comparable to that of the cd player.

TT on the CR-2040 is also 10-11 o clock on the volume knob. Loudness 5.

I adjust loudness knobs differently depending on room, speakers, mood.
I followed Yamaha's instructions. Set the volume as high as you'd want it, then adjust with the loudness knob. I'm typically around 10 o clock and loudness at 5 +/-
iPod use does require adjustment.
Even on my AX-550 through computer, I have to have it higher. I have a EQ-70 so volume is 10 o clock but the EQ helps a lot. I also typically have iTunes at 1/2 or 3/4 max. I also have pure direct on so loudness does nothing. If I turn the EQ off I'd have to go to 12-2. If I go to 12 right now it's way too loud.

My CR-2020 on FM or CD rarely ever sees higher than 10-11 o clock.

Hook the ipod shuffle to the CR-2020 and I have to go to noon-1.

CR-3020 not currently being used but I know even with that it was same as the others, never more than 11 o clock max(though I recall going to noon with some massive Yamaha speakers I once owned and still miss). Had to go higher with the ipod though.

-EDIT and if you're driving Dynaco A25s...well then the knob could very well be 12-1.

I have to crank the volume a bit on ANY receiver with the Dynacos.

So...what speakers are you using, what source, where's the loudness set to???

When I had NS-1000Ms that sort of worked I recall noon being painful. at loudness 1. loudness 5 bearable but still too high. Then again, I'm close quarter listening. What size room 20x30 and 15 feet away from the speakers?

Using NS-1000M's, I'm running the VL flat as I do not want to change the frequency curves in any way and that includes defeating the tone controls. They are set up in my living room which is approximately 20x30. IMO, the NS-1000M is good enough to be near field, I listen about 10 feet away.

[SoCal Sam]

I hope you have understanding neighbors or live in a remote area. I have a CR 2020 (105 wpc)and a R-100 (100 wpc) and rarely if ever push more than 3 watts continuous through them.

I'm in a good place AND both my neighbors have barking dogs.