Tannoys do sound pretty good

[brainsmasher]

I have had 100's of speakers come through here and while alot of them are still here I have always wanted the larger 10-12" Tannoys. Last week a pair of SRM 12B's came up locally and I took a chance. The SRM stands for Super Red Monitor but I am looking at the basket and its gold, should I be happier?
Anyways these are quite incredible nothing sounds bad through them and I did run an eclectic mix through them just to be sure. In a short time and in less than ideal room conditions these have made a good number of speakers expendable.
I just want to know how does so much sound come from such a little box. They were well worth the wait to say the least. I would like to get the cabs up to snuff but that project will just have to be shelved for now.

[MikeCh]

Wow, a cool looking design! What is that driver? Sweet grab.

Mike

[tubino]

Friend of mine had the ones from that series with a 15" dual concentric in a too-small box. Sounded pretty good, but those same drivers in my backloaded horns was what made me realize I could do something great with those giant boxes.

I've spent no time with the older 10 or 12" Tannoys, but the DMT12's can sound good. I still prefer the 15's, to be honest. Tannoy GRF-R's with 15" Monitor Golds kick some serious audio ass. If you like those, it would be worth your time to explore the 15's. I got some random Tannoy 15's years ago, no crossover, but when I was ready to use them, I really appreciated them. There's a lot of magic in those dual concentrics.

[tubino]

This is a 15's from about the same time and series as yours. I think it's a K3838.

http://tubino.smugmug.com/photos/27033397_WQu6G-L.jpg

Here are the random 80s ones I mentioned:

http://tubino.smugmug.com/photos/208007523_qT9cL-M.jpg http://tubino.smugmug.com/photos/208054273_YcjiP-M.jpg

Here's a real Monitor Gold 15" from the GRF-R's I bought last fall:

http://tubino.smugmug.com/photos/211294828_xMJA4-M.jpg

So you can see that the gold color does not equal Gold Monitor. But that doesn't mean that you don't have very good drivers in there! You probably DO have very good drivers in there!

[tubino]

I just want to know how does so much sound come from such a little box.

The woofer acts as a wave guide for the tweeter, so you get an effect not unlike horn-loading, from ~1000hz and up. And the Tannoy woofers are quite good, even when not in the cabinets where they really shine. Typically they have low Qts and low Fs, and really work well when horn-loaded, or at least in a large ported box.

[bolly]

yep! :smoke:

[doucanoe]

I'm with you B.

Being a horn nut, it seems to be mostly Altec or JBL around here as of late. Every once and a while, a nice pair of Tannoys will make appearance and I will get hooked again.

My last pair was the SRM 12X. Super smooth but with great detail. Now, I am running Ardens(HPD 385's) in my room driven by 75 w/ch tube amps. Same deal with the Ardens but with greater bass presents. I just love these dual concentrics.

I can't answer your question as to how, but there is just something about the design that really works for me. They have point source focus and detail without being overly analytical and I like that... a lot.

Congrats on finding a pair of SRM 12's. Very cool!

RC

[tubino]

If you haven't done it already, you might find it interesting to read up on what Manley did with the Tannoy monitors (http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/ml10a99.html):

The much sought after ML10 used the original Tannoy SRM-B/SGM-B 10" Dual-Concentric rolled-rubber-surround paper cone driver with the Mastering Lab Crossover. Manley and The Mastering Lab jointly-commissioned the last ever production of this famous driver to build a limited run of the ML10 before Tannoy discontinued the SGM10 p/n 2558R driver around 1992. The beefy, dense, non-resonant cabinet was constructed of 1 1/2" thick MDF finished in black formica with either 1" thick solid walnut or cherry sides. These sides served to protect the corners of the cabinet. (There do exist some early ML10 without the solid wood side bumpers and yes, we observed folks dinging the corners of the formica slamming into walls and doors which is why we added the solid wood side bumpers!)

The Crossover was The Mastering Lab's creation. They had been retro fitting the crossover into little plastic boxes banged on the back of stock Tannoy SRM-B/SGM-B 5/8" ply cabinets before this joint project came to light. The idea was we would design and build strong and heavily braced new cabinets 15" Wide X 10" Deep X 22" Tall weighing in at 50 lbs. each, order the drivers and build Doug Sax's crossover into these ML10's with proper production techniques, all with the crossover controls mounted on the front for the first time, and Bi-ampable/Bi-wireable recessed five way binding posts on the back. The dream speaker was born. People really started crying when they all sold out!

The ML10 offered point source localization combined with absolute time alignment, low distortion and phase coherence. Amplifier power of 100 to 200 watts was recommended. Designed to provide the recording engineer with a highly accurate yet musical tool, the ML10 is now a highly sought after collectible. Used, they are selling for much more than the original retail price of $2950.00 USD. We have seen them selling for over $4000/per pair.

Sooooooooooo.... we created the ML 10A follow-up design to "keep the dream alive". We went on with another then-current production Tannoy 10" Dual-Concentric rolled-rubber-surround paper cone driver (7900-0267) #2598 as found in the 1992-1998 Tannoy Stirling hifi model. A new crossover had to be used with the newer driver to compensate for the different balance of woofer to tweeter efficiency in the newer driver. Approximately 50 pairs of ML10A were produced before we decided to discontinue the ML10A project.

But hope does exist! Yes we do offer to swing YOUR SGM-B/SRM-B 10" drivers into our big beefy ML10 cabinets and install the Mastering Lab Crossovers for $1600 per pair, just like the original ML10. We are currently using a beautiful Lyptus® wood with a medium cherry stain sealed with a hand rubbed waxed finish for the solid wood side panels.

Lots more info at the link above.

[tubino]

A little more Manley-Tannoy info from the Hilberink site (http://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy90.htm).

[brainsmasher]

Stop that Tubino, my house payment is going to be late from getting this pair. That is an interesting article too bad they make no mention of the 12 inch models.

[tubino]

Stop that Tubino, my house payment is going to be late from getting this pair. That is an interesting article too bad they make no mention of the 12 inch models.

Just because there might be something better doesn't mean you don't have something great to start with. (I need that reminder a lot myself.)

If you like them, leave them. But I believe that if you put those same drivers and crossovers in a significantly larger and well-braced and damped cabinet, you will significantly extend the low end. The Tannoy Hilberink site probably has some real-life examples.

I'm using a 12" Altec in the Tannoy GRF-R backloaded horn cabinets designed for 15s, and it works very well. I would love to hear your 12s in cabinets like that. I posted a thread about making the adaptor rings with a circle jig and plunge router.

[superdog]

Well Brainsmasher. you finally got your Tannoys.Enjoy.Being a Tannoy I know they sound good.I was curious as to how big those cabinets are?

[Face]

I just went from crappy Arden cabinets to custom built 200 liter cabinets for my HPD-385's, it made a huge difference in and midrange clarity. Many of the vintage Tannoy cabinets were far from optimal.

[doucanoe]

I just went from crappy Arden cabinets to custom built 200 liter cabinets for my HPD-385's, it made a huge difference in and midrange clarity. Many of the vintage Tannoy cabinets were far from optimal.

Someday I might do the same but for the time being they are just fine.

Define "optimal". Are you referring to construction or size and tuning? I sometimes wonder what these manufactures (Tannoy, Altec, etc.) were thinking. Producing these less than optimaly designed loudspeakers in mass and providing them for public/commercial consumption. :D


I have heard some say that the bass with the Arden cab and 385's can get a little boomy. I actually have these in corners in a small room and am not getting much of that at all. I don't listen at high volumes though.

When pushed, I can hear it but at low to moderate volumes, It doesn't seem to be an issue.

RC

[SPL db]

Those look really nice Brian! :thmbsp:

Would like to make it up to hear them one day! :yes:

Scott

[brainsmasher]

If bigger is better I really have to look into having some new cabs made. These are pretty small at 10x16x23 and fairly stout pushing 40 pounds or so each.
Ron that is a stephens 15" full range speaker yet another future project in waiting.
Scott, anytime you are in town drop me a line I have a bottle of captain waiting and an old chevy to talk about if I run out of gear to bore you with.
I do know when they are properly set up it surely cant hurt them, I had my rig pulled apart to clear out the room for construction but $ was slow so I just tossed it back together.

[Face]

Someday I might do the same but for the time being they are just fine.

Define "optimal". Are you referring to construction or size and tuning? I sometimes wonder what these manufactures (Tannoy, Altec, etc.) were thinking. Producing these less than optimaly designed loudspeakers in mass and providing them for public/commercial consumption. :D


I have heard some say that the bass with the Arden cab and 385's can get a little boomy. I actually have these in corners in a small room and am not getting much of that at all. I don't listen at high volumes though.

When pushed, I can hear it but at low to moderate volumes, It doesn't seem to be an issue.

RC
Box size and construction. The Ardens are too small. I don't like how the back wall is so close to the driver either. Making the cabinets deeper will help mids and bass. Plus the fact that they're only made of fibreboard and the bracing is a joke.
I found adding polyfill to the cab right behind the driver helped midrange clarity. Removing the crap foam and using something of better quality should help also.
If you're looking for more top end, replacing the 30 year old caps should make a difference too.

[doucanoe]

Box size and construction. The Ardens are too small. I don't like how the back wall is so close to the driver either. Making the cabinets deeper will help mids and bass. Plus the fact that they're only made of fibreboard and the bracing is a joke.
I found adding polyfill to the cab right behind the driver helped midrange clarity. Removing the crap foam and using something of better quality should help also.
If you're looking for more top end, replacing the 30 year old caps should make a difference too.



I know what you are saying about the lack of bracing. One would think that Tannoy would have addressed that in the Arden cab. The use of veneer over MDF for cabinet material is just fine with me actually. It’s the bracing that’s key IMO.

When I get ambitious enough, I need to pull one of these drivers and run it through Woofer Tester 3 to see what I come up with. If you look at the design section of Han’s Tannoy site, you might see Dan Cramer’s cab design for the 385’s. He invited me to come check them out in person at his studio a while back but I never got around to it. Maybe it’s time to do just that.

I think that I can address the fill issue using the Arden cabs but any recap is going to wait.

RC

[Face]

I believe the Arden cabs are fibreboard, not even MDF.

[cubdog]

Nice Brian. What system are you using them with?

cubdog

[doucanoe]

I believe the Arden cabs are fibreboard, not even MDF.

You might be right. I just checked out the port cuts and it does look a little rough for MDF (front baffle anyway)

I will have to pull a driver and move some foam to know for sure.

RC

[brainsmasher]

Nice Brian. What system are you using them with?



Well Ross, pretty much the same one I have been running for the last few years, luxman, kyocera and currently a sansui pre. Using some A 25's for stands, it puts them at a good height for listening.

[cubdog]

I love that Luxman!

cubdog

[cableguy]

Very nice Brian...:yes:
Great all around thread...thanks everyone.






Bill