Analog 5.1 connection confusion

[fmueller]

I have an old HT system lying around that I have used for stereo music listening for some years (didn't have it connected to a TV), but now want to reactivate. It consists of a Nakamichi AV-500 and Toshiba SD-4800. I remember they were touted to be a really good match back when I bought them. Problem is, I don't recall how to connect the analog 5.1 connections.

The AV-500 has:

Center, Subwoofer, Rear L, Rear R, DVD L and DVD R.

The SD-4800 has:

C, S, Ls, L, Rs, R.

It seems obvious that Center goes to C, and Subwoofer to S, but how about the other 4? I have no idea what Ls and Rs mean, and the Toshiba manual in not useful in this regard. Hopefully somebody can help!

Many thanks

Frank

[tcdriver]

Ls = Left Surround (back left speaker) aka Rear L
Rs = Right Surround (back right speaker) aka Rear R
L = Left front = DVD L
R = Right front = DVD R

[fmueller]

Many thanks! I used to know this back when, but the old brain is not what it used to be any more :D

[fmueller]

Just a quick follow up question on this. The AV-500 has video in and video out. Is there any advantage of running the video signal from the SD-4800 through the AV-500, instead of directly to the TV? I guess I am wondering what the AV-500 does with the video signal :scratch2:

[tcdriver]

The AV-500 has video in and video out. Is there any advantage of running the video signal from the SD-4800 through the AV-500, instead of directly to the TV? There is no advantage to running the signal through the receiver other than the convenience of being able to switch video sources using the receiver’s remote control. That is, if you had a VCR, cable, or other video / audio source you could use the receiver’s remote control to switch both the video and audio with one press of the button. There is a potential disadvantage of running the signal through the receiver. That disadvantage is that the video signal will probably be slightly degraded by the additional cable length and the video switches losses.

[Marc.]

There is no advantage to running the signal through the receiver other than the convenience of being able to switch video sources using the receiver’s remote control. That is, if you had a VCR, cable, or other video / audio source you could use the receiver’s remote control to switch both the video and audio with one press of the button. There is a potential disadvantage of running the signal through the receiver. That disadvantage is that the video signal will probably be slightly degraded by the additional cable length and the video switches losses.

Thankyou tcdriver, I don't know if that information is of benefit to the original poster but I'm currently setting up a HT System and it's just helped me.

[Fred Sanford]

Just a quick follow up question on this. The AV-500 has video in and video out. Is there any advantage of running the video signal from the SD-4800 through the AV-500, instead of directly to the TV? I guess I am wondering what the AV-500 does with the video signal :scratch2:

Sometimes it's useful if there are setup menus that are only visible via the receiver's video out. I'll often use it during setup & then bypass it after. For example, I have the receiver out to Vid 1 on my TV, but then Vid 3 is LaserDisc direct, Vid 4 is DVD direct, etc. The only thing I watch through the vid switcher in the receiver is VHS these days.

je

[fmueller]

That makes sense. I understand now why the AV-500 has video in and out, although they don't seem useful in my particular case. I have a cable box, which is hooked up directly to the TV. Don't have a VCR. I think it will be more convenient to hook up the DVD player directly to the TV as well. Many thanks!

[fmueller]

OK, I have more questions coming up as I am trying to wrap my head around this whole HT business. My almost antique system consists of:

AV Receiver: Nakamichi AV-500
DVD Player: Toshiba SD-4800
AT&T U-verse cable box/DVR Motorola VIP1216
TV: Sansui TVS2746B ('el cheapo')
Speakers: 4 x Paradigm Atom v.2
Subwoofer: Paradigm PDR-8
Center: Sony SS-CN305 ('el cheapo')

Question 1:

When I connect the SD-4800 as a source to the AV-500, there are four cables for Front R, Front L, Rear R and Rear L. Hence I get surround sound. When I connect my TV to the AV-500 as a source, there are only two cables for L and R. Yet, I still seem to be getting surround sound. How is that?

Question 2:

Currently I have the cable box connected to the TV and the TV to the AV-500. Is that a sensible thing to do, or should I connect the cable box directly to the AV-500? The TV is just stereo, the cable box is labeled 'Dolby Digital, but I guess the AV-500 ('Dolby Surround) lacks the necessary input connections (such as S-Video and Optical) to support that...

Question 3:

There a RCA connections labeled Pb, Pr, and Y on both, the SD-4800 and the cable box/DVR. Yet the AV-500 doesn't have them. What are they for?

Question 4:

I have a choice to connect the PDR-8 sub to the AV-500 via two speaker cables or a single RCA cable. Which is preferable?

Question 5:

I would love to get my hands on a user manual for the AV-500 - preferably a free electronic copy :D

Many thanks in advance!

Frank

[Bogframe]

...and my wife wonders why I'm happy with just two Pioneer HPM-100s connected directly into my 1989 Sears TV.

[Fred Sanford]

OK, I have more questions coming up as I am trying to wrap my head around this whole HT business. My almost antique system consists of:

AV Receiver: Nakamichi AV-500
DVD Player: Toshiba SD-4800
AT&T U-verse cable box/DVR Motorola VIP1216
TV: Sansui TVS2746B ('el cheapo')
Speakers: 4 x Paradigm Atom v.2
Subwoofer: Paradigm PDR-8
Center: Sony SS-CN305 ('el cheapo')

Question 1:

When I connect the SD-4800 as a source to the AV-500, there are four cables for Front R, Front L, Rear R and Rear L. Hence I get surround sound. When I connect my TV to the AV-500 as a source, there are only two cables for L and R. Yet, I still seem to be getting surround sound. How is that?

Question 2:

Currently I have the cable box connected to the TV and the TV to the AV-500. Is that a sensible thing to do, or should I connect the cable box directly to the AV-500? The TV is just stereo, the cable box is labeled 'Dolby Digital, but I guess the AV-500 ('Dolby Surround) lacks the necessary input connections (such as S-Video and Optical) to support that...

Question 3:

There a RCA connections labeled Pb, Pr, and Y on both, the SD-4800 and the cable box/DVR. Yet the AV-500 doesn't have them. What are they for?

Question 4:

I have a choice to connect the PDR-8 sub to the AV-500 via two speaker cables or a single RCA cable. Which is preferable?

Question 5:

I would love to get my hands on a user manual for the AV-500 - preferably a free electronic copy :D

Many thanks in advance!

Frank

This would be a whole lot easier to explain to you in person, and at least a good bit easier to explain on the phone. Typing...not so easy.

1- The four cables from the DVD to the receiver doesn't make sense to me, should be 6 for a 5.1 input, or two for analog stereo (which can be decoded by the rcvr for surround).

2- Sounds like the rcvr lacks digital inputs, and I'd guess that the CATV box has more than one pair of analog audio out, I'd run one to TV and one to rcvr 'cause I like redundancy.

3- They are for component video, something your TV and rcvr probably don't support. Better video quality is possible with them, but probably no help to you unless your TV has those jacks as well.

4- Does your rcvr have a dedicated sub out jack? If not, you can run off the LR speaker outs. Depending on the sub and the LR speakers, it might make sense to then run out of the sub and on to the LR speakers, but that's another question.

5- Can't help you there, but clear pics of the front & back would tell us a lot.

Hope that helps-

je

[fmueller]

This would be a whole lot easier to explain to you in person, and at least a good bit easier to explain on the phone. Typing...not so easy.

Tell me about it! I had enough trouble typing the questions :D
Many thanks for attempting the typed answer, but also feel free to swing by! Other than listening to my audio stuff I can offer some large fish tanks to look at as well as some decent cooking - my other hobbies. My Indian and German dishes are usually well received, and if the fish tanks don't do it, they should make any trip worthwhile. :yes:

http://www.fmueller.com/aquaristic/240G/8-foot-view-1.jpg (http://www.fmueller.com/)

1- The four cables from the DVD to the receiver doesn't make sense to me, should be 6 for a 5.1 input, or two for analog stereo (which can be decoded by the rcvr for surround).

Sorry, I neglected to mention center and subwoofer, so it's six in total. The AV-500 only has analog 5.1 input, which is supported by the SD-4800's analog 5.1 output.

Meanwhile I read the Wikipedia articles on Dolby Surround and Dolby Digital, which elude to decoding of a stereo signal by the receiver to yield a surround signal. Interesting stuff! From that I gather that I am fine the way I set it up, with no real advantage of connecting the cable box directly to the AV-500.

I am left to wonder is what the 6 cables between the SD-4800 and AV-500 are good for when the same info appears to be transmitted from the TV to the AV-500 via two cables. :scratch2:

2- Sounds like the rcvr lacks digital inputs

Yep, only analog 5.1 input and a gazillion 2 channel inputs.

I'd guess that the CATV box has more than one pair of analog audio out, I'd run one to TV and one to rcvr 'cause I like redundancy.

The CATV box has 2 analog audio outputs, S-Video output, and optical output. The way my room is set up, I have the TV with the cable box on one side, and the AV-500 with the SD-4800 on the other side. There is a 30' RCA cable in between these two setups plus speaker cable for the center. I know a cable of this length is less than ideal, but it really is the only way I could make it happen. If it's just for redundancy, I'd rather safe on another 30' RCA cable :D

They are for component video, something your TV and rcvr probably don't support. Better video quality is possible with them, but probably no help to you unless your TV has those jacks as well.

So they are for the video signal, not for sound? You are right, neither my TV nor the AV-500 have these.

Does your rcvr have a dedicated sub out jack? If not, you can run off the LR speaker outs.

Yes, the AV-500 has a dedicated sub out jack (RCA) and the PDR-8 has a corresponding low frequency input. The AV-500 also has a second set of speaker connections (B), from which I am currently running two sets of speaker cables to the corresponding inputs of the PDR-8. So both devices support both, a low frequency connection and a regular speaker connection. They are also located close to each other, so that it's equally convenient to use either. I just had extra speaker cable at hand when I set it up last night, but am wondering if there would be any advantage in using the low frequency RCA connection instead.

Can't help you there, but clear pics of the front & back would tell us a lot.

Well, I think I have worked out all that's obvious from just looking at the thing. The main question I have is if it is possible to use all four speakers (Paradigm Atoms) for regular stereo listening, eg like two speaker pairs A and B, instead of front and rear surround speakers without physically rearranging cables at the back of the AV-500. If that's not possible with the AV-500, but a feature other AV receivers have, this could almost convince me to get another AV receiver in the medium term. The way I have it set up, the rear surround speakers used to be my main speakers for music listening so far. If I can only use them as surround speakers now, being reduced to the front speaker set for stereo music listening, that would be a major drawback for me.

A couple of shots of the AV-500:

http://www.fmueller.com/images/AV-500-front.jpg

http://www.fmueller.com/images/AV-500-rear.jpg

Many thanks

Frank