Blue-Ray selection at stores quadrupling over night...

[thedelihaus]

Damn Blu-Rays are breeding like Tribbles!:D

Stores like Circuit City, Best Buy and Target selling the DVD format movies for $4 to $5.50 a pop, you know it's to clear shelf space of this "dated" format, shelf space now to be populated with the same titles in the new Blu-Ray format.

I noticed the local target went from having one tiny-small section of Blu-Ray (your local store may differ) to an increase of 4, maybe 5 times the amount. This was between two stops there in a 24 hour period this week for a work related office supply run.

A big push with this, I imagine, is the death of HD-DVD. The sparring format battle couldn't have helped consumer confidence.

I expect to see DVDs get further pressed off the shelf over the next few months, which for now is great- all the movies I want to own can be picked up for nickels on the dollar.

And as I run a 24 inch and a 32 inch CRT, and hopefully they'll last me a while, I can't see the visual benefits any time soon.

I would like to hear how improved the audio is, though.


I've nothing against Blu-Ray, though I do wonder if, like Beta vs. VHS, we may have ended up with the lesser technology. I dunno.

And the start-up times- I've heard various stories, from 30 seconds to a minute, to multiple minutes. I imagine that must be tough on the motors, no?

And are the commercials being added to the tapes all non-exitable? Must you be forcibly exposed to 30 to 60 seconds of product hawking? Is this a rarity, or what's common with the new format/system?


Lastly, what are you seeing for prices? Seems the common price is $29 to $39, and some titles $49. Did I miss the lower-priced movies? It's possible. What prices are you seeing?

[theWB]

Delihaus,

Good Topic.
I waited the Format war out and just last week purchased a PS3 because it was only $20 more than the Blu-Ray player at my local Sam's Club. Spent another $40 for the Component cable hook up,(my tv does not have HDMI), and a fiber optic audio cable.

Start time on the PS3 is almost instantaneous.

I have an upscaling Denon 3910 universal player and can tell you for audio I hear no difference between the PS and the Denon. PS3 also plays SACD!!!!

But the Blu-Ray video is far superior to the Denon.

I haven't picked up any movies only concert videos which I picked up for between $16 and $22 at Sam's Club, Their Blu-Ray movies were all almost $25
No commercials on the concert videos I purchased.

I've seen them for as little as $20 on Amazon. I've noticed the 2 disc movies are much higher in price, so production costs must still be high. As more and more people adopt the new technology the prices should drop.

[blownsi]

I own that same denon and it does an amazing job on dvd. That said hopefully br goes mainstream and soon. I wonder how many br titles there are now. My buddy was an early adopter and he owns 131 movies but I know he is missing many from his collection. Are there any rare or short printed br titles?? I can't find house of wax anywhere.

[Jack G]

Your best bet for BR is still on line. Its usually cheaper, and the selection is much better. That said, the selection is still pretty bad, the total is still less than my personal DVD collection, though eventually that may change. Also note, that some of the discs are still having issues being played on some of the existing stand alone players-something that there is no excuse for.
Jack

[SpruceMoose]

there are playback issues on home theater PC playback as well. 3 major software suites for playback, several titles have major problems. audio issues as well. it will work out, eventually.

[thedelihaus]

there are playback issues on home theater PC playback as well. 3 major software suites for playback, several titles have major problems. audio issues as well. it will work out, eventually.

I didn't realize the issues were as wide as they are.

Not good for the consumers to have a technology released with so many bug, and the mindset to "fix it later".

This inevitably results in a percentage of consumers who end up with problematic players and software issues.

I wonder if the 80/20 rule is in effect?


And was the HD-DVD format a more reliable, stable format? Talk of the town says yes, but what are the facts?

[Jack G]

I didn't realize the issues were as wide as they are.

Not good for the consumers to have a technology released with so many bug, and the mindset to "fix it later".

This inevitably results in a percentage of consumers who end up with problematic players and software issues.

I wonder if the 80/20 rule is in effect?


And was the HD-DVD format a more reliable, stable format? Talk of the town says yes, but what are the facts?

The Best buy by me had a buttload of returned BD players after Fox started using BD+. I can imagine that quite a few people bought Fantastic four 2, and popped it into their new BD player, not realizing they needed an FW update.
Ifyou don't check on line with certain bulletin boards or chat rooms, you wouldn't know.
As far as reliability goes, my A1 has been much more trouble free. my first BD player only lasted a couple of months. i'm on my second now, and its having problems with some discs. Its not the player's fault, its the studios that don't test out their discs.
I'm not happy about how things are going on the blu front.
Jack

[thedelihaus]

How do the machines run compared to the DVD units?

Are they noisier? Quieter?

And is there concern, for those who own this format, about motor burn-out? Is the disc spinning differently- longer, faster, ect- than a typical DVD?



I'll be enjoying DVDs for at least the next few years, as prices are currently cheap and the telly I have would only benefit slightly from the technology.


But we should all be aware at some point the DVD will no longer be sold, and we will all need to purchase Blu-Ray at some point if we want to continue to view films at home.

I'm not sure how long this will take, and am very pleased standard DVDs are able to be played in the units being sold.

This is one area we weren't hosed over as a consumer- the support for DVD playback.

[Jack G]

The players do have fans, but I haven't been bothered by any noise-can't hear them from the viewing seat.

But we should all be aware at some point the DVD will no longer be sold, and we will all need to purchase Blu-Ray at some point if we want to continue to view films at home.
That is by no means a sure thing at this point. The masses may or may not adopt it. Its too soon to tell.
Jack

[SpruceMoose]

deli: i dont know first-hand about the HD-DVDs. i didnt buy either player before HD folded, and i still dont have a BR player. i decided to buy a pc that could play back dvds from my terabyte drive on my network, as well as my music from my 250gig network drive. after getting my HTPC going i bought a bluray drive, more memory, and another video card. works great! now i can watch my stored movies on my 53" tv, and my music goes to my a/v receiver.

[thedelihaus]

...That is by no means a sure thing at this point. The masses may or may not adopt it. Its too soon to tell.
Jack

I am most likely jumping the gun. You are correct.


But if the market push for Blu-Ray is any indication, with corporation's muscle lurching and heaving behind it to wrangle dollars from consumer pockets, I'm guessing the DVD's ballroom days are over.

The success of Blu-Ray means there's a new video/HT format to profit from. Both with discs, and with players.

Cripes- HDMI is barely being touted as the new standard, and already DisplayPort is being hawked.



I dunno the outcome, but with DVD-A's tires being slashed in the parking lot by marketing thugs waiving tech-speak, marketing tools and back-room business deals as if they were switchblades, while the "cars" warmed up before the race, thus havig HD-DVD a DNQ, Blu-Ray sure looks like it's got a good chance.

[ChrisW6ATV]

And was the HD-DVD format a more reliable, stable format? Talk of the town says yes, but what are the facts?
Both HD disc formats have had plenty of growing pains, but HD DVD was arguably easier to deal with needed firmware updates (if you had a full-time Internet connection near your player). And, firmware updates are not at all new to the movie-disc business; my brother had to send his Zenith DVD player to a warranty service center twice, when newer DVDs came out that had more complex menus or some other feature.

HD DVD players had all of the features of the format right from the start (except for some minor audio optional formats), while there is still not even one Blu-ray player on the market that has the full set of that format's features (dual video display, online content updating, etc.), unless you count the Sony Playstation 3 which recently got those added features with (you guessed it!) a firmware upgrade.

Ultimately, though, Blu-ray is a more advanced format than HD DVD. The actual picture and sound quality of the two formats is basically identical.

[Jack G]

Both HD disc formats have had plenty of growing pains, but HD DVD was arguably easier to deal with needed firmware updates (if you had a full-time Internet connection near your player).
Better than that, If an owner of an HD DVD player registered thier player, either by mail in card of on line, Tosh sent them the FW upgrades on a CD automatically whether or not you knew about or even wanted it.
I don't see the BDA folks doing that


But if the market push for Blu-Ray is any indication, with corporation's muscle lurching and heaving behind it to wrangle dollars from consumer pockets, I'm guessing the DVD's ballroom days are over.
Again, don't rush to conclusions. The studios are in no hurry to kill their cash cow, the DVD. To put it in perspective, last year one title, Transformers sold more DVDs that all BDs combined.
Bd still is going to have to compete with HD cable, as well as downloads which may happen faster that some expect, if Comcast has any say in it.
Time will tell, but I don't think that BD will ever replace DVDs, especially if the majority of house holds don't have HDTVs.
Jack

[uofmtiger]

unless you count the Sony Playstation 3You should count the PS3 because it is by far the best selling BluRay player. I would guess that it outsells all other players combined and then some.

With Blu-Ray, you will really need an internet connection to get the most from it. With BD-Live and other internet features, your player will not live up to its potential without it.

Better than that, If an owner of an HD DVD player registered thier player, either by mail in card of on line, Tosh sent them the FW upgrades on a CD automatically whether or not you knew about or even wanted it.
I don't see the BDA folks doing thatI looked online and the latest firmware update requires a request for the disc:

. If you are unable, or prefer not, to obtain the firmware update by one of the methods described above, you may contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at 1-800-319-6684 or HD-DVD Concierge at 1-888-MY HD DVD (1-888-694-3383) and request that a firmware update disc be sent to you by mail. You can update the firmware using the firmware update disc by following the instructions provided with the disc.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/notices/hddvd2firmware.asp

[Jack G]

ou should count the PS3 because it is by far the best selling BluRay player. I would guess that it outsells all other players combined and then some.

Absolutely. In fact, right now Blu-Ray is little more than the Piss3 video format.

I looked online and the latest firmware update requires a request for the disc:

. If you are unable, or prefer not, to obtain the firmware update by one of the methods described above, you may contact Toshiba Customer Solutions at 1-800-319-6684 or HD-DVD Concierge at 1-888-MY HD DVD (1-888-694-3383) and request that a firmware update disc be sent to you by mail. You can update the firmware using the firmware update disc by following the instructions provided with the disc.

That may be now, since Tosh isn't making the players any more, but when they were, they sent them out automatically. I got all mine sent to me without even asking. I even got 2 copies of one update. I never downloaded an update from Tosh-too much of a hassle.
Jack

[uofmtiger]

Absolutely. In fact, right now Blu-Ray is little more than the Piss3 video format.It is actually called PS3 and is a great media machine...actually one of the best I have seen. Its multi-media functions outrank any other machine other than a PC. It is also considered one of the best, if not THE best Blu-Ray machine because of its ability to be updated. Pay some respect!:thmbsp:


That may be now, since Tosh isn't making the players any more, but when they were, they sent them out automaticallyI guess the people that bought them just don't matter to them any more... Nice! This was the main reason I bought a PS3. There was no way Sony was going to drop support for it anytime soon.

[Cosmic]

I couldn't care less about video games, but as a Blu-Ray player, the PS3 is very solid. It also feels far better built than the flimsy dedicated players. Mine picks the internet off my wireless router, without any setup hassles at all, so updating the machine is stone simple.

C.

[thedelihaus]

I just learned that HD-DVD from Toshiba was based on a Microsoft software or technology. Anyone have the lowdown so I can get my fats straight?



Both HD disc formats have had plenty of growing pains, but HD DVD was arguably easier to deal with needed firmware updates (if you had a full-time Internet connection near your player). And, firmware updates are not at all new to the movie-disc business; my brother had to send his Zenith DVD player to a warranty service center twice, when newer DVDs came out that had more complex menus or some other feature..

I dealt with this with a Samsung DVD player I had bought for my sister and her new husband. It was unable to play "The Matrix" when it came out. Unfortunately, it was more than a firmware fix, but required an actual hardware chip. Samsung covered part of the cost, but with shipping and the repair, you were at around 75% cost of a new player. They went new, as the player was 6 to 8 years old at that time and who knows how long the laser or motor had left on it.


...HD DVD players had all of the features of the format right from the start (except for some minor audio optional formats), while there is still not even one Blu-ray player on the market that has the full set of that format's features (dual video display, online content updating, etc.), unless you count the Sony Playstation 3 which recently got those added features with (you guessed it!) a firmware upgrade....


kinda lousy, that the format is rushed to market before lots of the bugs are worked out. Once again, is this the 80/20 rule in action? Burn up to 20% of the consumers, but keep at least 80% happy, and you'll be okay?:nono:




...Ultimately, though, Blu-ray is a more advanced format than HD DVD. The actual picture and sound quality of the two formats is basically identical.

Thanks for clarifying the picture/sound question.

Do you think, the Blu-Ray format being more advanced, is a plus, or minus?

I'm thinking this may be a positive, and maybe consumers did get the better format in the long run, if this is the case. I hope so.

But could the fact it's more advanced also lead to playback issues? I dunno. But I am interested.

[Danger Boy]

I hope to jump on the Blu Ray bandwagon around Christmas time. :)

I still like HD DVD.. and my entry level player has worked very well for me.. figures though, I always seem to choose the format that looses. ala, DVD-Audio :cry:

[Jack G]

Its multi-media functions outrank any other machine other than a PC. It is also considered one of the best, if not THE best Blu-Ray machine because of its ability to be updated.
This only reinforces the fact that BD is just the Piss3 video format. BTW, if they had made it right the first time, there wouldn't be a need for updates.
Have you noticed, that Sony hasn't/can't make stand alone player as good?
Why don't the just take the game function out of the piss3, and put the guts in a less butt-ugly (yes, it DOES look like a George Forman Grill) case and sell it?
Why is it, the even now, none of the BD players are capable of doing what my A1 could 2 years ago? To get my respect, one has to earn it.
Jack

[uofmtiger]

This only reinforces the fact that BD is just the Piss3 video format. BTW, if they had made it right the first time, there wouldn't be a need for updates.

Why don't the just take the game function out of the piss3, and put the guts in a less butt-ugly (yes, it DOES look like a George Forman Grill) case and sell it?
Why is it, the even now, none of the BD players are capable of doing what my A1 could 2 years ago? To get my respect, one has to earn it.
Jack
The PS3 should have earned it. They put it out to be capable of playing the formats they advertized in their commercials. They did not have to add any more features to comply with new versions of BD as they were released and they definitely did not have to do it for free. The looks of the PS3 may not be to your liking, but that has nothing at all to do with its performance. If you are buying electronics purely on looks, I can't really do much for you there. Many people like the look of it. I personally could care less as long as it works the way it is supposed to (which it does).

Sony did not have to add Media Server functions, remote play, DVD upscaling, BD2.0, PS1 and PS2 upscaling, Divx, WMA, Resume Play, etc... The machine already did what they said it would do. These free upgrades should not be seen as a negative because they have only made this machine better while the Toshita A1 was just sitting there trying to look pretty (when it was not locking up on discs).


Have you noticed, that Sony hasn't/can't make stand alone player as good?Why would they want to right now? They have the PS3 moving off the shelves at a much, much faster clip. If you buy the PS3, you may actually buy a game or two even if you only bought it for Blu-ray.. They obviously want to move software. Seems fairly obvious.



Just to be clear, I am not defending stand alone players. I am saying that the PS3 is a bargain.

[Jack G]

The PS3 should have earned it.
It has not IR remote, and it has no 5.1 analog out, it doesn't fit well in many stands, and it looks like a George Forman grill. plus, its a game console. It hasn't earned my respect.

They put it out to be capable of playing the formats they advertized in their commercials.
The BDA has been advertising the features from video 2.0 for a good 6 months or longer now. Can it do that yet? Hell, they've been advertising 1.1 interactive features from the beginning, long before the Piss3 could do them.

The looks of the PS3 may not be to your liking, but that has nothing at all to do with its performance.
see above.

These free upgrades should not be seen as a negative because they have only made this machine better while the Toshita A1 was just sitting there trying to look pretty (when it was not locking up on discs).
You are getting those free upgrades, because Sony and the BDA couldn't figure out how to get those feature to work at launch time.
My A1 has been far less trouble, than Either of my BD players.

Why would they want to right now?
Because the masses are not gamers. If Blu-Ray turns out to be the Piss3 video format, it will be destined to be a niche product of limited scope. The BDA knows this.

I am not defending stand alone players.
You are actually doing the opposite.
Jack

[uofmtiger]

Because the masses are not gamers. If Blu-Ray turns out to be the Piss3 video format, it will be destined to be a niche product of limited scope.This shows just how uninformed you are:

"The video-game sector (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/VideoGameSalesOvertakingMusic.aspx)will remain one of the above-average growth segments of the global entertainment industries through 2011, with global games spending set to exceed music spending this year, according to consulting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers"

The BDA has been advertising the features from video 2.0 for a good 6 months or longer now. Can it do that yet?
Yes..Google is your friend. (http://www.qj.net/PS3-Firmware-2-20-now-live/pg/49/aid/116634)

[astumpe]

i don't know about the need to be on line to get fw updates but my ownes manual gave the phone no. to get them. i got mine on cd in about 5 days.

[Jack G]

Yes..Google is your friend.
And it took almost 2 years. Yea, I'm impressed.

Here's an interesting read for you.

http://www.resmagonline.com/articles/publish/article_2543.shtml

Jack

[yrly]

My Blu-ray player is a Sony BDP-S1 picked up for $150 on clearance at Sears. My belief was $150 was the most I was going to spend on either format for a player. It has been no more trouble prone than my first generation HD DVD players. Sony sends firmware discs for it just like Toshiba did. Its not loud, it is quieter than the A2 for the most part. Is it better or worse? The picture is about the same on either format, audio can vary by disc and its features.

[avguytx]

The software may have quadrupled but the amount of players being brought into the US has diminished by more than that. We have about 400+ on order between Panasonic, Sharp and Sony and none of those 3 will give us a definite ETA date on when they will arrive. I hear a lot of is due to the declining value of the dollar and they (the companies) make more on them selling them elsewhere. People talk about waiting on the price of them going down before they buy one. Right. Law of supply and demand here, folks.

[uofmtiger]

And it took almost 2 years. Yea, I'm impressed.

Here's an interesting read for you.

http://www.resmagonline.com/articles/publish/article_2543.shtml

JackIf one looks, they can find any number of reasons why BD will not succeed. However, the same can be said for competing formats like downloads, too. Internet speeds, DRM, comparable quality (meaning comparable bit-rates), hard drive space, hardware, ease of use, etc.. are all impeding the progress of downloadable movies. As an example, Netflix offers downloads of movies as a part of many of their subscription packages. One of my computers refuses to launch the program. It pops up an error asking me to update. I download the update, start the movie and it says it needs the update I just installed. From what I understand, my computer is missing a registry code that needs a WindowsXP install to fix. Well, I have other computers, so I have not bothered. However, my other computers will play the file and it is not worth it because the quality is awful.

One of the issues that has been raised is the need for firmware updates with BD. As I have found, many people do not have an internet feed into their living rooms. There is a workaround for updates like downloading and installing with a CF card, DVD/CD, or USB thumb. From what I can tell, we will need internet access in our living rooms to get internet downloads. This may not be practical for a lot of people.

If they do find a way to "do it all" with downloads, I will be all over it. However, I have a PS3 that pretty much does everything I currently want for now and it does so many other things well (DVD Upscaling/SACDs/Media Serving/Games/Remote Play, etc.) that even if BD dies, it will get plenty of use. I also think that Sony will find a way to use the PS3 to play HD downloads if that time ever comes.