No phono stages or tape monitors?

[gkimeng]

I've looked at several "A/V receivers," and they don't seem to have built-in phono preamps or any sort of tape monitor switches on their front panels. I can get outboard phono stages, but is there some other scheme I'm not seeing in these receivers for accomplishing an in/out loops for 3-head analog decks or signal processors, or is this an extinct feature as far as "home theater" components are concerned?

[rroobbcc]

I think it is extinct. Not much market for tape now days, and many receivers include per channel EQ and other processing effects built-in. My solution to the problem is to have two completely independent systems in my home theater. One is for video and the other is my main 2-ch rig.

[vinyldavid]

I've looked at several "A/V receivers," and they don't seem to have built-in phono preamps or any sort of tape monitor switches on their front panels. I can get outboard phono stages, but is there some other scheme I'm not seeing in these receivers for accomplishing an in/out loops for 3-head analog decks or signal processors, or is this an extinct feature as far as "home theater" components are concerned?

The early ninties Sonys had good phono stages, and 3 tape loops....at least the one I had did.....they also sounded pretty good, IIRC. Mine was an STR-AV1070.

[Lastplace]

Some of the upper end AV units have phono stages, forget the tape loop. Like others I have an AV & 2 ch. stereo systems in the same room. That new Onkyo 805 has a phono stage and is getting great reviews

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?showAll=N&g=10420&i=580TXS805B&tp=179

It weights in at 50 lbs.

[Gohan]

I have a Yamaha HTR-6060 and it has a Phono Stage and no tape loop

Gohan

[gkimeng]

Some of the upper end AV units have phono stages, forget the tape loop. Like others I have an AV & 2 ch. stereo systems in the same room. That new Onkyo 805 has a phono stage and is getting great reviews
It weights in at 50 lbs.

Unfortunately, a phono stage in the receiver/amp and no tape loop is even worse, as there won't be any means of inserting my SAE5000 into the system.

I've sketched out a block diagram, and I think I've figured out how to do this:

Cable box and DVD HDMI direct into the TV for when we don't want to run the big surround rig

Cable box and DVD digital coax into the receiver for surround liistening

Cable box and dvd analog, VCR, phono stage) into external switchbox

SAE5000 and dbx 1bx between switchbox and receiver aux analog input

3-head decks into tape monitors of SAE5000 and dbx 1bx

That should give me the ability to have digital surround sound and still preserve all analog operations, including recording sound from video sources and tape dubbing.

Sheesh.

[SpruceMoose]

my kenwood vr6070 has a phono input :) , but no tape monitor or external processor loops. :(

[Face]

I hate to break it to you guys, most people don't use cassettes anymore. It's just a cost cutting measure since there's hardly any demand for it.

[gkimeng]

I hate to break it to you guys, most people don't use cassettes anymore. It's just a cost cutting measure since there's hardly any demand for it.

Well, if we were "most people," we'd probably just go and get Bose HT packages from BestBuy and wouldn't even know about Audio Karma, but who said anything about cassettes?

[Face]

What do you put in a 3 head deck?

[SpruceMoose]

r2r tapes perhaps? :)

[gkimeng]

r2r tapes perhaps? :)

Give the man a cigar.

My AR speakers, AR turntable and Revox R2Rs are the core of my audio system. Any potential new additions I might consider that turn out to be incompatible with them get crossed off my list.

[resqguy]

My Lexicon has a "Zone 2/Monitor" output for recording devices. What's nice is that since this is a digital pre/pro you can assign different inputs and outputs with different functions. You can create a tape loop by assigning an analog input to the Zone 2 /Monitor output and you're in business.

It doesn't have a phono stage, which I actually prefer. I am more likely to want flexibility there depending on my cartridge choice.

[whoaru99]

r2r tapes perhaps? :)

Even more strongly reinforces the point of obscurity.

[SpruceMoose]

well, i drive odd/obscure cars too. how about a jeep grand wagoneer and a honda insight.

normal? whats that?

[gkimeng]

My Lexicon has a "Zone 2/Monitor" output for recording devices. What's nice is that since this is a digital pre/pro you can assign different inputs and outputs with different functions. You can create a tape loop by assigning an analog input to the Zone 2 /Monitor output and you're in business.


I'll look into that, thanks.

[whoaru99]

well, i drive odd/obscure cars too. how about a jeep grand wagoneer and a honda insight.

normal? whats that?

Nothing personal, it is what it is. :thmbsp:

[bobrown14]

Cant you get an HT pre/amp controller with pre outs and plug in one of your pre outs (if you have 2) from your 2 ch. rig to the pre in on the HT receiver and program it to play on one of your unused channels - AND you could probably get away with some sort of 5 chanel sound out of your HT system from your analog source AND have the choice to listen in stereo as well? I have an HK system that I bought for just that purpose but I never got around to it since I do all my 2 ch. listening in a different room(s) than the HT system due to the size of my speakers.... and the fact that I couldn't keep collecting analog gear if my digital gear worked with everything (it does but...), you get the idea.

Cheers,

Bob Brown

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

Agree with this line: Home Theatre isn't allowed in the same room as the fine Hi-Fi gear. Audio and Video here are separate!

[gkimeng]

Cant you get an HT pre/amp controller with pre outs and plug in one of your pre outs (if you have 2) from your 2 ch. rig to the pre in on the HT receiver and program it to play on one of your unused channels - AND you could probably get away with some sort of 5 chanel sound out of your HT system from your analog source AND have the choice to listen in stereo as well? I have an HK system that I bought for just that purpose but I never got around to it since I do all my 2 ch. listening in a different room(s) than the HT system due to the size of my speakers.... and the fact that I couldn't keep collecting analog gear if my digital gear worked with everything (it does but...), you get the idea.


The way things seem to be headed, I think I'm going to end up doing pretty much the opposite - shopping for a DTS processor, using my existing analog system for the front LR through its AUX input and adding some additional vintage amplification for the additional channels. In addition to all the functional issues I've uncovered coupling HT equipment to vintage sources and speakers, it seems that HT receivers and amps don't SOUND very good, either. Basically, they're all just big table radios with more channels and bigger amplifiers.

[gkimeng]

Hi,

Agree with this line: Home Theatre isn't allowed in the same room as the fine Hi-Fi gear. Audio and Video here are separate!

I wish. Unfortunately, I've only got one room suitable for either serious listening or HT; all the other rooms in the house are more suited for a Tivoli table radio.

[RaymondLeggs]

There are phono pre amps availible and as for tapes, most people who still play them don't use them to record.

[resqguy]

Agree with this line: Home Theatre isn't allowed in the same room as the fine Hi-Fi gear. Audio and Video here are separate!


I couldn't disagree more. Home theaters place big demands on the audio portion. Now you won't get a 7 channel amp for the same amount of money as a stereo amp. You also won't get a complete set of 7.1 speakers for $1000 either.

That being said with the proper component selection and setup a HT setup will make music sound amazing.

[stuwee]

The way things seem to be headed, I think I'm going to end up doing pretty much the opposite - shopping for a DTS processor, using my existing analog system for the front LR through its AUX input and adding some additional vintage amplification for the additional channels. In addition to all the functional issues I've uncovered coupling HT equipment to vintage sources and speakers, it seems that HT receivers and amps don't SOUND very good, either. Basically, they're all just big table radios with more channels and bigger amplifiers.

Last sentence:yes: I don't post here often but, have lurked because I find all this stuff facinating. What exactly does a TT,cassette,RtR sound like in 5.1 or 7.1 I suppose I could take a cassette deck to a friends house. Does a decoding part decide to pull a section of the recording and put it on this speaker? Or does it just play in 2ch only? If you tape something 5.1 let's say DVD-A, SACD to the RtR, What does that sound like? "What's it all about Alfie?":scratch2:
Craig

[resqguy]

What exactly does a TT,cassette,RtR sound like in 5.1 or 7.1

Let's assume that the 5.1 system is on par with the 2 channel system that you are used to. A good multi-channel processor will have different modes. The basic playback would be a straight through 2 channel mode. Some will have an analog bypass that would behave just like a normal 2 channel preamp. Some HT setups will simply add reverb or digital delay to the source and pipe that to the surround channels.

Some processors have good quality A/D/A stages and will convert an analog source to digital and then back to analog after processing. In digital form different DSP modes can be applied to the material with different effects. For example, Harman Intl processors have Logic 7 and Panorama modes. Logic 7 will take what is common in the both stereo channels and steers it to the center channel. It will also reduce the common material from the L & R. The sound is blended between the three front speakers. The sides and rear channels are fed with material that simulates sound bouncing back from a wall that is farther away then the wall in the room.

This effect will make things like vocals sound more clear since that will be coming from the center channel and most of the instruments will come from the left and right. The sound stage is enhanced based on the source material.

Also, since bass (LFE) is not directional a HT setup will enable you to place your sub in the location that fits your room resonances creating a flatter bass response.

When switching from 2-channel to a 7/5.1 mode the instruments and vocals stand out more. There is more air between them. Your mind has an easier time picking out specific sounds or instuments to focus on.