Having Second Thoughts About Buying Vintage

[SubWolfer]

Well, as the title states, I'm having some doubts. First of all I'm very new to all of this and also new to this forum. So yes, I qualify as a real wet-behind-the-ears noobie. Please keep that in mind when/if you reply. I started another thread (found HERE) (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159109) which gives a little background and shows what I've bought so far as well as what I'm considering for purchase soon. I haven't even received the gear I bought yet and already starting to think maybe I should have bought new rather than vintage. Why? Well, I'll be the first to tell ya I'm not exactly handy with a soldering gun, nor can I decipher a schematic. And I'm concerned that used vintage gear (despite the seller saying its functioning properly), is going to need some restoration soon (if not immediately). With the age of these components being 20 to 30 years old, it would be rather naive of me to think they are going to work like they did when new. So now I'm thinking a person like me might be better off going with new and having piece of mind (plus a warranty). Sure, it's gona cost me more money up front, but I want to enjoy music, not hunt for repair shops.

So I have a question for all the vintage gurus in here. Seeing's how I'm obviously not of audiophile rank, yet want an upgrade from my 10 year old Magnavox boombox, how would, say, a Azur 340A integrated amplifier (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA340A) and a 340T AM / FM Tuner (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CAT340) from Cambridge Audio, compare to a Pioneer SA-8100 and TX-9100 tuner? Obviously, the Pioneer or Cambridge gear is going to blow away my old Magnavox BB, but is the sound quality night and day between the vintage Pioneer gear and the Cambridge components? Or what about a NAD - C-325BEE (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAC325BEE) IA and a NAD - C-425 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAC425) tuner? A little more expensive than the Cambridge stuff, but not by a lot.

I know buying new is going to put me substantially over the original $500 budget I had allocated for a stereo system (which was a big reason I decided to go used/vintage, plus the cool factor). But now I'm thinking; spend a little more and get new w/warranty and forget about it. I don't know, obviously I'm confused and need some help deciding what to do. So far I've bought a used amp and some used speakers and I could use some advice guys. I'm not asking y'all to tell me what to do. What I am asking though, is for your opinions, either pro or con, for sticking with vintage or buying new quality gear. Thanks

[cityflux]

As a proud owner of lesser and older amps and speakers my advice is to hook up your existing purchases and enjoy. After doing that you will have something to compare to. Possible new purchases may not be so attractive.

As to the old stuff needing work done, worry about that when the need arises.

They may be better than you expect - wait and listen. Good luck!

[onepixel]

Don't start second guessing yourself. Give the Pioneer a chance, if everything works, you've picked a real winner. I have the SA-9100 and it's never been opened up and it sound great. Although it's starting to get scratchy controls. But that is easily remedied.

All the Pioneers I've have/had sounds crisp and clean. My matching Pioneer TX-9100 tuner is absolutley wonderful! I've never heard the Azur, but my new(er) gear is a bit warmer. The differences will be minute, no night and day difference. What speakers will you be using? Because they will account for a major portion of the sound.

Btw... I'm no guru or audiophile, I just enjoy music that sounds great and vintage gear has done it for me. I think you will be very pleased with the SA-8100.

Good luck!

[Tromatic]

I've not heard Azur gear, but I do know it gets good press. I have owned NAD gear in the past and can say that it is good stuff.

Keep the Pioneer! The initial cost up front to either repair or restore might be more than buying new, but you are getting a far better machine.

There is nothing being made today that touches vintage gear until you move way up the food chain.

ANY good vintage tuner blows away the junk being sold today. How a certain "lab" can get away with selling the junk they do is beyond me.

ETA: I have recently added to my system two old tuners, a Kenwood KT-8300 and Technics ST-9030. Both of them are as they came from the factory 30 years ago. I'm sure that there would be gains to be had by upgrading components, but I have no desire to do so. The amp is an equally ancient Yamaha. I have had the good fortune to have been able to listen to some very high-dollar gear, and even keep some of it. I prefer the vintage gear. It has a quality that most modern gear lacks; character. The modern gear is far more "accurate", but has managed to kill the music.

[Danger Boy]

nothing is forever. meaning.. this vintage Pioneer gear you just purchased.. may hold you over till you find something else you might like.

most of my 2 ch systems are used gear. not all of it vintage. but used nonetheless. with a few exceptions, most of my gear has worked great. yes older gear has it's drawbacks some times.. but it's the best bang for your buck, always.

[SubWolfer]

Don't start second guessing yourself. Give the Pioneer a chance, if everything works, you've picked a real winner.
What speakers will you be using? Because they will account for a major portion of the sound.

Btw... I'm no guru or audiophile, I just enjoy music that sounds great and vintage gear has done it for me. I think you will be very pleased with the SA-8100.

Good luck!

Yeah, I know I'm second guessing my choices. And I reckon that's good advice to not worry about repairs until the time comes. Its possible that it may work fine for years. Guess I picked the wrong forum to ask to be talked out of buying vintage gear. :yes: By the way, I bought a pair of used Paradigm Export Monitor speakers of eBay. I'm not allowed to post eBay links in this forum, but I posted the link to speakers I bought in the other thread I started.

The tuner is one area I'm really stuck though. If you had a SA-8100 amp, would you lean towards getting an inexpensive tuner or a TOTL? I was considering a Pioneer TX-9100 tuner, also like the a TX-9800 and the TX-9500II is nice as well. But maybe I should look for a less expensive Pioneer, like TX-6800 or TX-7800 tuner instead. Because some of the nicer high-end Pioneer tuners can really get up there in price. OTOH, I seen a TX-6800 in really good condition go for less than $20 on eBay yesterday. Whacha guys think? If I'm gona stick with vintge for now, should I lean towards getting one of the high-end tuners or settle for an inexpensive lower-end Pioneer or Kenwood tuner?

[onwardjames]

Tromatic and Danger Boy speak true.

Yes, nostalgia factors in. I loved going to sleep as a teen with a Sansui AU-G99x I was smart and lucky enough to have bought for cheap from a buddy. It had a blown channel, but what the hell!

Repair shops are not impossible to find, and most are very reasonable. The build quality of most mid70's stuff is just hard to find under a grand or so. Don't shoot me any flames for some one-off great deal. We all know about the Insignias (and I own a pair and love them), which of course is a speaker, but cost-cutting and mass production have eaten into all facets of audio and video. Don't make it fixable...make it cheap.

Seems like love went into some of the vintage design...the bluefaced Sansuis(9090,8080), the CA series Yammies, and lest we forget, the Black Meter Pioneers (1080, 1280-1980!!!) Even JCPenny sold MCS, which had good guts.

Observe the lowly JVC JA-S22 (the baby of the series...custom blue lights is all my idea)

[AnalogDigit]

Virtually all my gear is used. I had some scratchy pots, but they are easy to clean. If you do buy new, you are lucky you might get a 90 day warranty on the item.

Keep the Pioneer! Vintage gear, looks cooler, sounds better, last longer and in most cases is cheaper then new gear.

[Art K.]

I understand your trepidation...however I agree with the folks here who say, just enjoy what you have while you put together some change for better.

I must admit that my most recent acquisition which is an 11 lb thin integrated amp that rates at 49 watts per channel and simply buries any vintage piece that I have (and it's a bit long in the tooth at 12 yrs). With judicious choices newer gear is in my opinion better than most vintage however there is plenty of run-of-the-mill mass market BPC new gear that can't hold a candle to the vintage stuff.

Vintage allows you to get reasonably good sounding gear at super bargain prices...I'm not too much with repairs either however most vintage stuff just requires deoxit applied in all of the right places (which folks here will help you with) and you will be jammin'.

[Tromatic]

If my Yamaha 1010 ever breaks, I am prepared to pay my local wizard 2 grand to fix it, if that means anything.

[onwardjames]

I've heard, but do not own, a Pioneer TX-6200, which was bought for 20 bucks, and it sounds FAT! Big and WARM.

And could pull in 3 college stations that were 1000 watts or less, from 70 miles away. I kid you not. Amazing reception.

GET YOU SOME!!!:thmbsp:

[terra1]

Always do your research. Compare reviews, specs, owners manuals, construction, opinions, and features of new to vintage.

Educate yourself on the risks and benefits. Keep in mind opinions are just opinions and your tastes may be different, so don't get caught up in the bravado that ONLY BRAND X is the way to go.

The more you have done your research the more secure you will be in knowing you made the best educated and right decision or risk for you. Even new equipment has risks for reliability and performance. That's why even Consumer Reports will note that maybe a certain brand has a poor performance track record from cars to refrigerators. And yes, you can make mistakes. But that happens new or vintage. Just learn from it.

I just started last fall getting into vintage and learning how much simple things like cleaning switches and controls can cure static and improve sound. Yes. Sellers can exaggerate. And shipping companies can give your equipment quite a rodeo ride.

A suggestion to minimize concerns of shipping damage and condition: Try craigslist. No shipping costs. And there you can test and check out equipment before buying. Patience is the key here, but some great single owner well cared for equipment can be found.

And I can't agree more with what was said above: Don't start second guessing yourself before it's arrived. Think positive! Think good karma! Reminds me of the Donald Sutherland character in Kelly's Heroes exasperated with all these negative waves! :)

[onepixel]

Sub,

Where are you, is there a local Craigslist? You might want to keep an eye on there.

My oldest amp is 40 years old, a Sansui AU-555. All I've done is DeoxIT and replace one bulb. I probably should replace the caps but it sounds good enough that I haven't.

Paradigm makes some really good speakers, another good choice on your part. Another thing to try out is different speaker wire thickness. This is always a controversial subject, but I can hear the difference. Thicker (12 gauge) and shorter wire, will have more bass, sound more forward and fuller. Thinner (14-16 gauge) and longer wire will give it an airyer and open soundstage, but loose a bit of bass.

Before investing anymore, give what you've bought a good work out and then decide. Here is a direct link to info and reviews on Pioneer tuners. Other brands are also listed.

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/pioneer.html

[SubWolfer]

I'm in the Detroit area. Thanks for the speaker wire tip, and for the tuner link, also. As I said, a tuner is one area I'm confused about which way to go, so I'm going to do a little more research. But after reading that a Pioneer TX-6200 was able to pull in 3 college stations that were 1000 watts or less, from 70 miles away, that's amazinginly good reception!. Good reception is so important to me, as I have also have 3 local college stations and one Canadian station that are awesome, but difficult to get in sometimes. Yet in my car they come in fine. I don't reckon then that high-end tuners are going to get exceptionally better reception if that TX-6200 works that well. Would ya say the TX-6800 also gets equally good reception?

Man, reading y'alls replies is making feel better about sticking with my choice to go down the vintage path, especially the reply from terra1. Of course, posting a thread in this forum and expecting to get pros on buying new over vintage, seems about as likely as finding a monogamous relationship in a polygamist sect at a Texas compound. :D

[DENNYDOG]

If you are worried about the reliability of your Pioneer or anything else vintage that you might by, think about having it gone through by one of AK's sponsors on the bottom of the page. It will most likely be cheaper than you might think and will bring you years of service. Probably more years than you will ever need.

Find something cheap on Craigslist while your gear is getting serviced and don't look back. That Pioneer will keep you happy for years to come.

[nosirrah]

the reverse of your dilemma is how I got here. Had a nice setup, all Kenwood stuff, and it was "current"
After only 2 years of service, it blew a left channel {I think it was left?}
Cost $120 to fix at the shop, all is well.
A year later it happened again, now I'm a little pissed, price went up to about $140.
Flash forward to another year, guess what?
I took it out to the garage and gave it a good whacking with a ball pein hammer.
Started buying the Sansui stuff I loved but didn't have the $ for while I was in the service, met a hell of a lot of great people, now have more gear than house.
If it's about reliability most stuff these days is made in some Chinese factory, of low grade components, and poor build quality.


















yes, vintage gear will need care, so does modern.
Casey

[stereofanboy]

Around here (Pensacola), you can pick up a tuner that will play or a cd player in good working condition for around ten dollars at any thrift store. Try that just so you can start enjoying your nice amp and speakers right away. Then, you can search out the most perfect matches at your leisure without feeling rushed.

[Bunny]

All vintage stuff I bought needed work. Luckily I have a friend that is an awesome technician but otherwise it would have been as expensive as buying new stuff.

The best experience I had is with 'vintage' gear from late 80's begin 90's. Those are the only set I bought that didn't need any work at all. And those are my best sounding sets.

But if I were you, I would wait how your stuff turns out. If it breaks down you can always go to the shop and buy new stuff (doesn't need to take very long). In the meanwhile you can see what you appreciate in sound and what you search. I'm still sorry that I've started with a set that was 'too' good. Wasn't able to grow into it and therefore I don't appreciate what I have as much as I've started with crappier gear ;)

[ehoove]

To replace vintage gear with a new equal replacement would be a very costly upgrade. Can be done, but to match build and component quality would not be cheap!! Stay with the vintage to determine what you like, then upgrade as you go. SACD Player is the only component that may require a current model purchase, then find one slightly used for $.50 on the Dollar
Regards,
Jim

[Arkay]

Vintage gear is often disposed of by owners because --after 20-30+ years of loyal service, it is finally just not cutting it any more. Scratchy controls, channels dropping, sound quality just not up to memories of what it once was like...

BUT all this old gear needs is a good going-over by a skilled tech, and it will sound --and function-- as new again. That going-over can cost some $$, and it may bring your total expense up to about what you would pay for new gear. But it will sound better, look better, and last much longer than the new stuff. Of course, there is high-end exotic new stuff from "boutique" labels that can equal the sound quality of restored vintage stuff... but it costs much more, even factoring in the cost of repairs on the vintage gear.

Having second thoughts or doubts as you are having is perfectly natural. But sit back, relax and give things a chance. The gear you bought may work fine as-is. IF not, it may still work fine after a simple DeOxit cleaning/treatment. That is something you CAN do by yourself, without soldering. The only mechanical skill needed is being able to turn a screwdriver and turn a knob. If it still doesn't work at that point, then you'll need to pay a tech (if you don't wish to try learning electronics repair). But if you pick a good tech who does a thorough job (not just a "make it work at all and I'm done" lazy approach), then you'll still have an "audio treasure". Life goes on. You have a chance to experience something good... go with the flow and see where it takes you. You may "earn" it a little up front, but the rewards when you are there :music: will be worth it. :thmbsp:

[Brett a]

Stay with the vintage to determine what you like, then upgrade as you go.
Regards,
Jim
I ditto this advice.

As far as new v. vintage:
Comparing new to vintage is a little like comparing apples and oranges---(or maybe oranges and tangelos or apples and pears.) In the last year, I've upgraded from vintage to new and the difference is night-and-day.

I ran vintage gear for 25+ years --Yamaha, NAD, Sherwood...--but until I bought newer/higher-end gear, I did not really know what soundstage was, nor did I realize just how much space and detail was contained on every recording. My passion for this hobby has been notched up considerably!

I don't wish to discourage anyone from going vintage. It has many benefits which have been listed already in this tread. But by my experience with vintage, its sound should not be confused with the sound quality of new gear.

Perhaps the biggest up-side to vintage, besides it's obvious cool factor- is that you can put a system together for $0 to a few hundred dollars, where as with new, you're likely to spend a couple grand or more. Buying new also makes a person more susceptible to upgradeitis.---always thinking you need better/more expensive gear. But I guess there’s plenty of “wanting more” with vintage too.

The short of all this is: If you can afford it, new will perform better IMO. But especially when shopping for new gear—because there’s more $$ at stake and more to choose from--- you’ve got to listen before you buy it.

Welcome to the hobby. You've got thousands of hours of enjoyment ahead of you!:thmbsp:

[merrylander]

The newest system in this house is a Yamaha CR-2040 and yes, that one can be tempermental in needing selector switches Deoxitized occasionally. The others are pretty much as they came from the factory - I am not one to do wholesale cap replacement, did it on everything in the audio path of the CR-2040 and heard no difference.

Modern stuff could have the disadvantage of being surface mount technology, we had a lady at the last place I worked who could do SMT repairs, they thought she walked on water. And as has been noted most of it, like this POS Dell PC here, is made in China.

Since you are in the Detroit area see Dave (grumpy) about the local vintage club, there would be lot's of help there. There is always help here on AK, I think I have walked more than one fellow AK member through a repair.

Meanwhile enjoy the tunes.

[daddydlb]

As far as tuners go in the Pioneer brand I did alittle research. The TX 6800 has 3 gangs and 2 IF filters. Once you move into the TX 7*00 series they have a 4 gang tuner. Its all a matter of taste and $$. We mainly use the TX 6800 in our bedroom system to listen to Coast to Coast AM on AM. The station is local and under powered but the 6800 pulls it in good on the AM. Happy hunting.

[gearhound]

Buy cheap....and enjoy!
Hit the thrifts, flea markets, & Sat./Sun. yard sales.
Amazing what you find on someone's driveway at 8am?
$20 Avid 100's....$5 in new caps....and they're good for another 30 years.
Buy a nice $5 Nikko....and play it 'till it drops dead.
Then find a sweet $10 Kenwood.....and repeat the process.
Once you find that SPECIAL piece of gear....THEN....spend the $$$ on repairs.
Good luck!!

Steve

[stuwee]

SubWolfer, if you go to your user profile and put where you live it helps alot. You have a huge amount of very nice and helpful AKer's in the 'hood.Don't mess with Texas:D I'm from there:scratch2:

If I were you and had the scratch, I'm still thinking that Pioneer 5a tube job is just too cool! Ok so the cab has a dent, just leave the screws off of it an set it out in the open, tubes like air:yes: When your buddies come over and you take the cover off, say when was the last time you saw these:thmbsp:Pricless!!
When you get your amp and those nice speakers(remember they need to be off the floor on stands) experiment with chairs, milk crates etc.. to find out what height you'll need. You'll be posting a new thread:yikes::yikes: with Holy Crap what was I worried about!! Then you'll start thinking, I need more and more and more......Lucky you live in a 1br apt. Still save a area in the closet or under the bed for the future of the sickness:D

Craig

[Mark W.]

The TX-9100 is a perfect cosmetic match to the SA-8100 amp (it's TOTL companion is the SA-9100)

the 7100 8100 9100 all look alike and are builtd on the same basic chassis.

I myself own 4) SA-9100's And 3)TX-9100's

Both of my systems are based on these units.

Of the units I have

One Amp and one tuner has been completely refreshed new caps, various transistors replaced power supplies upgraded etc. As well as the tuner being completely aligned. these make up my Main living room system..

I have 2 amps and 1 tuner in near perfect working condition that aside from soem clean up work I did myself no work has ever been done. One pair makes up my Office system the other amp is currently my test amp (what I hook stuff up to to make sure it's working this amp is also my backup should one of the other two need service.

And the 4th amp I have is a barely working beat to shit parts unit. Paid all of $30.00 for it.

My total investment in these units is $1110.00 not including shipping.

Not sure how that compares with The Cambridge units cost but it gives you a benchmark

[--@H@B-->]

I have a cambridge audio 640 version1.

Compared to the onkyo 4500 it replaced, its not even close.

The cam is much more refined to the point of ridiculousness, BUT....

I replaced the cam with a luxman c383 preamp and a nad 2200. This setup kills the cam but only because i upgraded my speakers and needed to be driven by something more robust. Plus the luxman is super clean.

All things considered, research and use whatever will work. For me its seperates.

Plus now i have the cambridge to use somewhere else with my axiom m3ti's.

[Twenty20Man]

I bought a SX-1250 for 35 bucks and its condition was horrendous it looked like it sat outside in the rain for a summer ot two, I felt sorry for it and decided it deserved to be restored, I could have parted it out,but in good conscience I didnt know whether any parts inside were any good save the knobs and such...I completely restored it inside, parts were around 90 bucks then repaired the regulator board and had a tech with a scope finish it up so for less than 350 bucks I have a monster that plays on average 12 hours a day EVERY day , it has its nicks and mars, but man that SOB sounds soooooo goood, think of it this way, buying vintage gives you a chance to own way above your means and invest a bit and once finished oh boy you are set....buying new the philosophy is too build the best while making it affordable that means trade offs..buying from the golden era the philosophy was to build the best damn the cost....its really a no brainer...

[Fletch]

I'm a big fan of the Pioneer Tuners. I picked up a TX-610 for $10 and it works flawlessly. One of the best buys I have ever made.

I thought I would also add that I am the owner of a HK 330c solid state, Sansui 5050 SS, and an Onkyo A-25. All three units bought sight unseen. The only one hooked up was the Sansui and I has already technically purchased it. So to make a long story longer. The ONLY thing I have had to do is use DeOxit on the controls. Now, this may have to be done every year or so depending on your unit. Considering I have systems I have put together for less then $50 that sound better then anything I have EVER heard new. Either the people I hang out with don't care about audio or they can;t afford the high-end stuff. Either way, vintage has more bang for the buck.

BUT, if you want piece of mind then go new. But that's a lot of money and a LOT of tradeoffs for a little piece of mind.

[Tiver]

One thing that often presents itself in vintage gear is price. You can try out a lot of different equipment inexpensively if you don't mind some selling to go along with your buying. (even very high end stuff finds it's way into the cheap seats on occasion) New stuff costs a lot and the resale will hit you hard right from the start.
Putting together a surround for your HT is also different from one's musical needs and many folks here are happy to have newer equipment for movies, but listen to the music on their vintage 2 channel and could not imagine otherwise.
You live in a big city and will likely have plenty of opportunity for great bargains if you want to spare the effort.
Keep browsing this forum and you will see there are a lot of AKers that like to restore gear or just need to thin out what they have, and some of that ends up for sale as well.

Something interesting to think about as well is the development of your own listening preferences. This is found all through AK posts : The only thing that really matters is how it sounds to you

Listening and appreciating the differences comes only if you want it to. If you cannot tell the difference, or do not appreciate it, then why wouldn't you be satisfied with what you have? When you experience something that sounds better to you, then you decide how much better , and is it worth an upgrade, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, the repair issue will be something that is a real possibility, but if you asked anyone on this forum if its worth it, you would be met with a resounding ABSOLUTELY :yes:
Good Luck :music:

[reggaenaut]

I have some vintage Sony units that I know I would have had to pay some very serious dollars to get comparable sound and quality of make. Geez the fascia of the sony 1120 amp is a thick sheet of aluminium and the writing is engraved !

[Brian]

All depends on your personal wants. There are plenty of excellent newer units out there I'd consider from Krell, McIntosh, Audio Research, Magnum Dynalab, Martin Logan and a raft of others. With these brands generally newer units are as good as almost any vintage piece out there. But, on a dollar per satisfaction unit basis, the vintage is probably a lot less. My advice to anyone wanting to keep a vintage unit for permanent use, or long term use, send it to a competent technician and give him carte blanche to go through it and replace anything that is suspect and throughly clean it up. Even if it sounds decent without, it is probably going to sound better after and more than likely be more stable. I've done it a few times and though the units without service sounded good, I heard a big difference after. Costs are not that great provided you do not get into some of the brands/models that are loaded with caps and because of the build are difficult to replace. The US produced Fishers are an example of this. Great units, beautifully built and sound great but working on them is a pain per most techs and the costs reflect it. But you do end up with a great unit after.

Separates, tuners and integrated amps generally are easier to work on than receivers as there is just less stuffings under the hood.

[jimfet]

Nothing wrong with quality new stuff. Just about everything I have ever bought was new in the day. It's vintage now. I have bought some new stuff recently and it is very good. This site is about new stuff too. Not just vintage.

[Dark Knight]

As you have probably seen by reading all the posts, you are getting great advice. I started about three months ago, performing the exact same mental gymnastics as you did.

Here are just a few "tongue-in-cheek" reflections only being three months into vintage gear and AK; they are tied together:

1 – There is a "Goldie Locks" phase as you go through different gear to find out what is right for your tastes. I was so new I did not even know what I liked. I went just on sentiment from my teenage years. I have already gone through several units.

2 – You can get a beautiful sounding vintage system at a fraction of the price as a new one. I went shopping at the local HiFi shops. It was all tiny and plastic. The demos had a great deal of forward edge that needed a subwoofer to round things out. However, I still crave the Mastodon upright Hoover for its functional simplicity and effectiveness. When it comes to speakers, nothing produces sound like the resonance of those larger vintage wooden cabinets (cabs).

3 – In that same vein, vintage gear requires way more room than the modern systems.

4 – I am not handy. There are huge deals where one "little" thing is wrong. If you can fix it, you can have a real gem on your hands. This is not within my reach. There are some Akers who can make a rocketship out of a paper clip. I can't. I have relied on internet vintage stores. They have served me very well. The price is more than what the veteran Aker would pay, but I can't fix it myself. Sometimes there is 3 to 12 month warrantee, which is pretty good in my books.

5 – The down side to vintage stores is that they often do not have the gear that you really want. Then, you have to rely on Craigslist (CL), Canadian Audio Mart (CAM), or eBAY. It takes a while to understand exactly what questions to ask based on what it missing in the photo. If you include the link of the item being sold, you can get great advice on AK about what to do.

6 – Whenever you really want a particular item, it is nowhere to be found. The minute you find it after months of looking, another "mint" version will appear for less than the price you just paid. It's OK, just enjoy the music.

7 – You will read the word "DeOxit" a lot. It seems to work miracles. If they had it for humans there would be no arthritis.

8 – It will seem as if everyone is "scoring" except you. This has nothing to do with your high school days. Scoring is an obtaining incredible gear for the price of bubble gum. You will hear about many wonderful things that were left by the roadside, just waiting to be picked up. Thrift stores, garage sales, estate sales, friends, and relatives all who do not know the true value of what they just gave away. This has not happened to me "yet". But, I am reminded about the thousands who post on AK, so it will "seem" like it is happening all the time.

9 – There is something called a "west coast" versus "east coast" sound, one is juvenile one is mature. "It's all rock and roll to me." ;-)

10 – The quality and size (gauge) of cables is a topic of debate that has no resolution as yet. But, it seems to depend on how much disposable income you have. Depending on whom you ask, $2.00 lamp cord works as well as $1500 wire, hand-woven by Himalayan spinsters. Audiophiles love both.

11 – There is a whole new language that is like learning how to taste wine. Presence, sound staging, imaging, brilliance, warmth, thin, muddy are just to name a few and I am still learning about them. After three months, I finally discovered what imaging sounds like. Last month I finally heard what distortion sounds. Another AK post described it beautifully enough for me to recognize it when I heard it. AKers are really great for helping you to learn.

12 - There is nothing like vintage and it just keeps getting better.

DK

[SubWolfer]

You're correct, a lot of good advice in this thread and it has caused me to do an about-face and stay with the vintage side for now. Heck I haven't even given it a try yet, so I'm going to just relax and approach it with an open mind.

6 – Whenever you really want a particular item, it is nowhere to be found. The minute you find it after months of looking, another "mint" version will appear for less than the price you just paid.

Boy ain't that the truth! It reminds me of when I was younger and use to go to the mall. Everytime I'd go there with my girlfriend all these super hot chicks would be everywhere! Then of course, when ever I went there with my buddies, hot chicks were no where to be found. :sigh: