70's Sony Stuff

[whitetrash]

I've had such bad luck with 70's Sony audio stuff, I might have to pass over it from now on. I buy a bunch of stuff from flea markets, garage sales and anywhere else that's cheap (even eBay). Of the nine or ten units I've collected over the last year only two are in working condition (both higher TC series reel to reel decks). All the others are either all-in-one systems, small portable reel to reel players (I had to say small because they did make the "portable" reel to reel that has to weigh 60 pounds) and plain old receivers. The amplifier section of them are not complicated and easily fixed. It just would be nice to turn one on when I get it home and not hear either a distorted channel or a channel that has only 1/4 volume. I always clean and check the contacts and they are never the problem, it's always something in the amp section. Since I'm venting on Sony stuff I have to ask some questions to the guys who have been into audio a lot longer then myself. How was Sony regarded in the early years? If they were considered lower end stuff, when did it change for them?

[Jon S]

Actually, I like the 70's Sony audio gear, and I had a LOT of them. I had in somewhat chronological order:

TA-1150 Integrated amp 30wpc@8 ohms
STR-7065a Receiver 65 wpc@8ohms
TA-4650 V-FET Integrated V-FET Amplifier 30wpc
TA-8650 V-FET Integrated V-FET amp 80 wpc
STR-7800SD Receiver 120wpc

TC-160 cassette deck
TC-161SD cassette deck
TC-177SD cassette deck
TC-K7II cassette deck
TC-K81 cassette deck

Sony PS-X7 direct drive turntable

I did not have any problems with the amps or receivers at all. The cassette decks were not up to par. All the mechanical transports wore out eventually. Mind you, I did a lot of recordings to tape. Once I upgraded to decks with solenoid transports, I did not have much issues since.

I unfortunately did not keep my gear too long, kept upgrading. I also had peer pressure to buy other stuff from Marantz (2325, 2285) and Yamaha (C2 preamp, B2 power amp, CR-2040 receiver).

Sony was not considered low end gear at that time. It's just that that there were other brands that were better regarded. I kind of ranked Sony with Pioneer and Sansui. Marantz and Yamaha were perceived to be a bit better.

[Brian]

I have a:
STR6065
STR6045
The 65 is the longest owned receiver and has been in constant use at home, at my office and now with my son and other than having to clean the volumne control a year or so ago, it has never presented as much as a hiccup with a set of 4 ohm speakes.
The 45 I picked up about a year ago and tries it out and it sounds very close to the 65 and everything works. I've got it in a stack and will eventually mate it probably with the TV.
Sony during this period was a major audio oriented company. The reel 2 reel decks were considered some of the finest in the home consumer market and the other equipment ranged from between Pioneer/Sansui/Kenwood to Marantz and in many markets above Marantz in perceived quaility. Big thing was that where the Marantzs were so often DOA out of the box, Sonys almost never were. Between the 2 companies, I'd go for a good Sony first.

[dstarr]

I have had a sony STR-7045 30wpc since 1975 and have had no troubles with it except for cleaning the pots. That receiver went through Hell and back when I used to lug it around to parties as a teen. I started out as a mobile D.J. using it and a pair of Altec A-7 cabinets loaded with Cerwin-Vega drivers from a set of CV 217-Rs. People could not beleive that it was only 30wpc ! I later bought a CV A-400 power amp 225wpc and CV DM-2 mixer.
-Dave

[RocknRoll]

I think Whitetrash is referring to the later 70's early 80's FET Sony gear. I have a STR-v35 from early eighties (made after STR-v1-7 series). Guess what - same problem Whitetrash describes in the left channel. The early stuff was standard bipolar transistor like all other manufacturers were using. Sony bought into the V-FET thing just like Betamax and Minidisc.:puke:

[merrylander]

Only one I ever had (briefly) was an STR-7050. Nice case but was dry as a bone, looked great after five coats of oil. Cleaned her up and was surprised at the FM front end, really sensitive. Sold it on eBay to people who already had one and wanted it for a second room system. Worked well and sounded good while I burned it in in the shop.

Rob

[kajguy03]

Originally posted by RocknRoll
I think Whitetrash is referring to the later 70's early 80's FET Sony gear. I have a STR-v35 from early eighties (made after STR-v1-7 series). Guess what - same problem Whitetrash describes in the left channel. The early stuff was standard bipolar transistor like all other manufacturers were using. Sony bought into the V-FET thing just like Betamax and Minidisc.:puke:

My Tech tells me that the V-FET gear tends to get fried pretty easily, and, once's it's gone, it's gone. He recommends that I avoid it. And, I have.

[moab]

Hello, this is Moab,
I am a new one on the site. Need some help with sony tc-137sd. When turned on both pots hit the right and burring noise goes to both channels. Does anybody has a clue what's going on?

Thanks,

Moab

[axel]

I think Whitetrash is referring to the later 70's early 80's FET Sony gear. I have a STR-v35 from early eighties (made after STR-v1-7 series). Guess what - same problem Whitetrash describes in the left channel. The early stuff was standard bipolar transistor like all other manufacturers were using. Sony bought into the V-FET thing just like Betamax and Minidisc.:puke:


For the sake of precision:
Sony used V-FETs between 1975 -1978 on eight models, with only two of them surviving until 1980 and 1984 (TA-N7 and TA-N88 respectively). All the V-FET units were "high-end" and very expensive - show-case stuff.
The STR-V35 is (sorry) cheap stuff, just like any other cheap stuff from any other manufacturer.

For Betamax, keep in mind that what all the pros have been using since about 1985/6 (I am one :) still is a close cousin from the original Betamax: Betacam, Betacam SP, DigiBeta etc. Not too bad for a failed format!

As for Minidisc, I have nothing to say because I don't like compressed formats, but Minidisc still is here while its DCC competitor isn't...

None of my Sony units ever gave me trouble and some I have used some quite carelessly. My amp/preamp combo has been running for the past 11 years between 4 and 12hours/day and often more - no problems. But none of my units are BOTL - case in point.

... cheap stuff is cheap stuff, whatever the brand.

[ByrdWyngs]

I can definitely agree with Axel on this one. I had quite a bit of the low end Sony stuff in the 80's and had problems with a lot of it, also have some of the high end stuff from the '70s which is great. There really is no comparison between the two.

[axel]

BW,

Pround Sony owners UNITE! ;) :lmao:

[dingus]

i have heard that the first series in a Sony product line is the one to have. the following series components are de-engineered so to speak, getting worse as the product line ages. this is done apparently to establish a loyal following and good reputation, to attract sales in the series' models where material, manufacturing and engineering shortcuts are used to widen profit margin.

so i have heard....

[axel]

dingus,

... perhaps true since the 1995 big changes at Sony. But not so before, and certainly not on any of the top units!

Despite its gimmick rep', Sony is a very constant brand. But it is true a lineup cannot be made of "statement" products only :)
After 1995, it's a very different story.

[dingus]

cool, thats good to know.

[Parky50]

dingus,

... perhaps true since the 1995 big changes at Sony. But not so before, and certainly not on any of the top units!

Despite its gimmick rep', Sony is a very constant brand. But it is true a lineup cannot be made of "statement" products only :)
After 1995, it's a very different story.

Yup,

My HT System (5.1) is totally pre '95 SONY, except for the BSR EQ.
It has been going strong for years and still sounds really good. :yes:

(ps. It's all dressed in black too !!!)

[ellitoid]

Found a Sony STR-6065 a few weeks ago at a thrift store for $25 bucks. Took it home , fired it up , works like new. I use it every day I could not be happier. :yes: :thmbsp: :yes:

[heathkit tv]

In the mid 70's I had this silly Sony Quad receiver that had a bogus scope on the left side......there were two sliding controls for fade and balance which would position a marker light on the face of this "scope"

Is anyone familiar with this model? Might you have a model number or picture? Thanks

Anthony

[dshoaf]

i have heard that the first series in a Sony product line is the one to have. the following series components are de-engineered so to speak, getting worse as the product line ages. this is done apparently to establish a loyal following and good reputation, to attract sales in the series' models where material, manufacturing and engineering shortcuts are used to widen profit margin.

so i have heard....

I sold a *lot* of Sony audio stuff in the 70s while in college. Sony's biggest problem was that they made well-engineered gear with little sharp presentation to the front panel. The other Japanese vendors really had a leg up on the cosmetic front.

Sony's high-end strategy starting about 1975 or so was to introduce new circuitry in more lush - but still mundane, IMHO - cosmetics. The VFET gear is a good example of this. Then, they would introduce new models into the lower end of the line with many of the same features or circuits, thus having established that it was just like their top-of-the-line gear. For the most part, this worked well. BTW, the other Japanese vendors were doing the same thing, like Pioneer's Spec series, for example.

The problem with the VFET stuff was that the early models were not stable and tended to self-destruct. This particurlar approach backfired on Sony and that lines seemed, by the end of the 70s, to have fallen back into a 'gear for the masses' mentality. I left the audio biz then but noted that much of the Sony gear I had loved to sell in the 70s bore no resemblance to the black-faced drek that followed in the early 80s.

Cheers,

David

[axel]

This particurlar approach backfired on Sony and that lines seemed, by the end of the 70s, to have fallen back into a 'gear for the masses' mentality.

I'd be a little more precise about this (but will keep it a short version :):

The original V-FET units vanished in 1978 but gave way -as TOTL lineup- to a series of units which seems to still be fairly unknown in the US: the "6" and "7" series (ST-A6B, TA-N7, TC-K7 etc, late '77 to 1980+). Very much late '70s looks - shiny knobs, plenty of them, heavyweights 'n all and including two V-FET units.

The other TOTL series is the "pre-Esprit" (the "86" and "88" units, late '77 to 1980 and 1984 respectively, aka "Audiolab" in the US). Very sparingly distributed in the US, especially the 86s. Pro or "prosumer" stuff in discrete & understated looks but excellent gear nevertheless.

What became, then, easily seen is the more "regular" stuff but Sony didn't withdraw from the "high end" market until the late 1990s! Distribution is the key and Sony, seemingly, promoted its super gear only very discretely, and not on all markets either. The market was changing and Sony understood that quicker than the others - High End was to become a "niche" only and "smaller" was ahead.

All of the 6 / 7 / 86 / 88 series are very common in Germany and -to a lesser extent- Northern countries.
Unseen doesn't mean it wasn't there and, from what I have gathered so far, it seems the US unfortunately saw very little of Sony's best...

[axel]

Chris,
As was said in your original VX6 thread, the STR-VX6 was a transitional unit - still well built but already leaning toward the "cheaper-to-make" (which implies nothing, sound-wise!).
This lineup stayed available for a short time ; like the previous "transitional" lineups from early '79: TA-F80 /F70 /F60 etc. Sony accelerated its "turnover" immensly between '79 and '82, sensing the market was changing and searching for something more befitting (production-costs and looks-wise) than monster STR-V7s...
The same fate happened to the later TA-AX8 /7 /6 integrated amps for instance.

As for the PPS "frying", it seems the VAST majority of units using those still are functional - yours is, my TA-N86Bs are and 90% of the TA-F6Bs and TA-N86s seen on eBay and in Japan are still functional...

Heat-Pipe I wouldn't know as I own none and have never even seen one of them "for real"... But all the Luxmans using this system seem to work (isn't it THOR who has plenty of contemporary Luxmans? - he could comment I'm sure), the pro Studer amps of the time using it weren't known for failing etc.

Anyway,
You do NOT have a POS - just a unit that embodies all the novelties and contradictions of a suddenly accelerating field, with all the bells and whistles that were thought to cope (or make...) with said field. I find it very interesting.

I still an old post covering the VXx units coming from the very first version of TVK which I'll post soon. Hey - since I have a few quiet days, I'll reshape it for posting next friday :)

[J. H.]

I still have my Sony 6800sd that I got new in '76/77. It's still going strong and has never been in the shop other than for a cleaning. It was the first major purchase my wife and I made after we were married. Got it, a pair of Norman Lab 10a speakers and a JVC JL-b31 TT. Still have it all although I've let my son have the Sony and the speakers. I recently got a Marantz 4270 and am using the TT with it.
I've got to say though that the Sony is/wasn't the nicest looking girl on the block, but she is still sweet to listen to. I think the phono section is actually better than the Marantz, but the Marantz FM is much better than the Sony. You can find the Sony's pretty cheap on ebay and I'd say go ahead and get one. They seem to be gaining in popularity, but still lag behind the big boys,(Marantz, Sansui, etc).
Just my .02 worth.

[Wornears]

Hey J.H.: Ixnay on the cheap Sonyay on eBay, OK? <G> I have a 5800sd and 6800sd I picked up from there for much less than the other majors. I sure agree with your assessments: they are not the cutest girl at the dance, but they can rock (and roll)!The phono section is outstanding, and I even find the FM better than my Yamaha CR820's. Suppose they'll eventually get overpriced too.

[ilimzn]

Um, Sony de-facto invented VFETs, Betamax and MD ;)
Having owned a number of sony top end components, (and still do), all i can say is that they are pretty much bullet proof.

As for techs proclaiming VFET units to be 'fry prone', after having rescued some from said techs (and witnessed the horror of their 'fixes'), I feel the need to completely disregard such statements. That being said, a VFET isn't your run-of-the-mill transistor and you DO need to know your stuff if you want to get into that gear.

[melofelo]

sony mds je 530 minidisc deck...
for my money..one of the best bit of affordable 2 channel domestic recording audio kit made in recent years... :thmbsp:
4 years and 200 + mindiscs recorded and played night and day later...
and i'm still trying to hear this mythical and aurally elusive compression..

sony did theri homework with this one..
can't wait to get my hands on something from the ES range as a 2nd Dubbing deck...
if you already have music on good condition vinyl and your turntable is good enough to wring that lush analogue sounds from the grooves...
probably the most cost effective transition you could make from analogue to digital without feeling sonically short changed in my humble opinion...
i actually prefer the sound of the sony dac to that of my marantz cd 63 player and listen to cd's with the mindisc player in * record * mode via the optical input...

[juncers]

Melofelo,
I have to agree with you on the Minidisc. I have 3 recorders and about 300 minidiscs and I haven't heard any compression problems unlike a mp3 for example. I record mostly radio 3 live broadcasts from excellent quality tuners and would be able to hear any degradation in sound. I've been able to create a high quality ( probably better quality than commercial cds) library of classical music this way.

Best regards,
Ray

[melofelo]

glad to see another minidisc fan out there :thmbsp: minidisc seem to have a wider following in the UK than the US...
there are some who say that some of the higher end ES range sony minidisc players put out fires from nakamichi dragons :) ...but i'd have to make my own mind up on that after i spy one on ebay for the right price :scratch2: ...even though the recording resolution on a nak probably exceeds either of my two main sources... :scratch2:
sony 'can' make some quality kit when they decide to... :yes:

[ilimzn]

I've listened to one of the very first Sony MD portables (don't remember the name, though) for an extensive time and tried LOTS of recordings. It is possible to hear that the compression is different and slightly less detailed, but compared to MP3 it's a LOT better, even comparable data rate MP3s. I have a couple of tracks that have that anoying 'gurgling' in the background even with 320kb/s MP3, while there was no trace of it on Atrac. Now if only Sony had the presence of mind to finally give us free Atrac codecs... it's not like they are getting any Atrac licence money from MD sales any more!

[juncers]

Ilimzn,
Try listening to a minidisc player built after 2000 and you'll hear a big difference between that and the original atracs. Of course, it will need to be recorded at 1x speed not 2x or 4x.

Melofelo,
I think you're right on the UK/Euro acceptance of the minidisc. When I go back to the US, I can't even find minidiscs to buy in most places. My neighbors ( I have a summer house in Maine) didn't even know what it was when they came over one night for dinner and I was playing some jazz with one!!

Ray

[sviru]

I read this thread and I have to add something - V fets are really dangerous machines. They fail very often and they are easily to kill. Just like mine. VFET was the bes amp i have ever head. I have had many stuff Musical Fidelity, Nad, Sansui, Sony, Technics, Creek and much more. Vfet is the best one. So sad that mine died :(((((((

[ilimzn]

Having dealt wit several, it is actually far more likely for something else to fail in them, taking the VFETs with it. This is no different than many other amps, the problem is spare VFETs are very difficult to get...

[ilimzn]

Ilimzn,
Try listening to a minidisc player built after 2000 and you'll hear a big difference between that and the original atracs. Of course, it will need to be recorded at 1x speed not 2x or 4x.


The one I had on load only had the HQ setting (no LP). MP3s I hear today still are not up to par with Atrac.
I was just looking to buy a MP3 capable CD player for my car and Sony has some Atrac CD capable ones at no extra cost. Now if only i had an Atrac Codec :(
Now if only someone finally made a FLAC capable player with a normal price tag ;)

[Wornears]

I'll chime in as a Yank who enjoys MD and commends Sony's technical expertise with it. Their marketing sucked, but the product was outstanding (can anyone say Beta?)

I have a mint MX-R50 portable minidisc recorder and what a wonder: size of a pack of cards, titanium case, runs on a single charge for about three days of full use, and on 2 AAs for a full day or longer of same, and even with its early ATRAC, I've never had any noise/compression issues -- with about 150 MD recordings from CDs, records, out-of-print cassettes -- and counting.

Can't find MD discs for sale except in Best Buy or online these days -- U.S. retailers have long ago abandoned the format. I too am looking for an ES deck to add to the stack here -- I have a lot of albums left to archive.

[juncers]

Wornears,
I'm an old New Yorker ( don't hold that against me-I've mellowed!) who has been living in Europe for the last 20 years. The Minidisc players received good reviews in the UK. Most people felt that there was a slight edge to the CD, but there wasn't much to it. If you ever come to England you can buy all the MDs you can carry home!!

Ray