How many of us actually like to listen to our old radios?

[RickB]

Just wondering because if certain parties before the FCC have their way, we won't enjoy much of the beautiful sounds of our old rigs for long...

Broad Band over Powerline

An incredible amount of RF sent over UNSHIELDED power lines, which interestingly enough, are also called transmission lines...but we radio nuts know them as ANTENNAS!

Yep, broadband noise, from 1.8 MHz to 80MHz, overlaying everything, no more BBC, Radio Espania, HCJB, etc., no more Ham radio, no more CB (mmmmmm, gotta think about that one....) no more low band VHF, and listening to international airline flights? Hah, your local noise level is going to be way above any of the tiny signals that get here from that Boeing over the ocean....

It's been tried in several countries, and failed, yet there is an incredible push going on to have it rammed down the throats of Americans... if the Japanese, who some may consider one of the most technically advanced societies on Earth can't get it to work, the Netherlands, Austria, etc., can't get it to work, who in their right mind is going to think that miles of transmission lines with RF flowing on it is going to be anything but a boondoggle....

It means money for power companies, not really from the Internet service, but from everything else they can get from the info that will be able to be sent down the pipe....and then sold to the highest bidder..personal info and habits... what your TV was tuned to, what DVD you were watching...

Now, if I was a paranoid sort, I could imagine all sorts of consumer electronics with imbedded chips to spy on us, err, collect saleable information.....

:dunno:

ARRL Link in Broad Band over Powerline (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/)

[Kamakiri]

Originally posted by RickB
Now, if I was a paranoid sort, I could imagine all sorts of consumer electronics with imbedded chips to spy on us, err, collect saleable information.....

You know, it's funny that you mention this, Popular Science has an article about this very thing in the latest issue. Manufacturers and advertisers are trying to get some sort of GPS locator chip to show where their products, everything from TVs to Juicy Fruit, ends up when purchased. Supposedly the chip is supposed to die within a certain number of days from purchase, but I for one find this pretty damn disturbing. Right now the chip that they are proposing costs $1.00, therefore leaving out the very lowest priced items.

Watch and see what happens. When the FCC mandates about digital HDTV brodcasts come to pass, I can envision each family in America unknowingly becoming a Nielsen family once they buy their new HDTV sets.

[Celt]

I have a video from Coast to Coast AM that shows the effects of BPL and it isn't a very pretty sight. All SW was obliterated. :uzi: to BPL!

[RickB]

Originally posted by CELT
I have a video from Coast to Coast AM that shows the effects of BPL and it isn't a very pretty sight. All SW was obliterated. :uzi: to BPL!

Yep, that's where I heard just how bad it was....been an Art Bell fan for years, heck, he's a Ham, so I try and support other Hams...

The ARRL site has several different videos and sound clips showing just what the BPL does....now, these tests were with a restricted number of modems...imagine, if you will, thousands of modems in you neighborhood relaying everything from how many eggs are in your refrigerator, to how cold did you turn your Air Conditioner's thermostat (better not go below 78 in the summer or big Brother will be after you), what the DVD you watched last night was, and if you have young kids and don't have the "V" chip enabled....

And remember those paranoids that used to claim that the TV set sees you as you are watching it? Well, with a pinhole webcam hidden in a TV this could be a reality...

:yikes:

I can really see the potential for a lot of abuse....and an almost concrete reason for paranoia.....

:para:

[Sandy G]

Yeah, I heard that one, too, & was considering posting something on this. I LOVE listening to my Boatanchors, seeing all those firebottles glowing. Sure would be a cryin' shame if all this goes away. But I can see it coming-who cares about a few old crocks listening to shortwave ? Hell, you can get it all on The Internet anyway & not have to put up w/fading, pops, cracks, blown toobs....besides, it sounds horrible in the best of conditions...we need the bandwidth....-Sandy G.

[Celt]

Here's a bit more info on this subject...

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

[Sandy G]

Well, we may have stirred up enuff noise to be heard. There's a front page article on the "Wall Street Journal" today about this. -Sandy G.

[fresnel468]

Many BPL systems will utilize WiFi instead of low voltage downlinks with PLC modems for access into the customer premises. The medium voltage distribution system will be used for the last mile segment into service areas. Any interference generated by the BPL carrier could be confined to areas traversed by the MV distribution. Not all MV distribution will be lit with BPL for some time because projected subscriber counts in a given area may not justify the expenditure.

BPL is not being rammed down American throats. Power companies see it as a potential source of revenue from existing infrastructure. Will they hold your electric power hostage unless you sign up for broadband Internet access from them? I think not. The biggest obstacle to BPL success is financial and not technical. If it can’t be priced competitively or provide added value compared to other broadband services while providing a decent return on investment to the power company, it will simply go away. I see it faced with the same hurdles that broadband wireless service has failed to overcome.

fresnel

[Jeffhs]

As a radio amateur for over 30 years and an ARRL member since 1990, not to mention a member of the Lake County (Ohio) ARA since 1987, I am opposed to BPL. It will cause incredible interference on the ham and shortwave broadcast bands--the idea of which many other hams, like myself, do not like in the least. Living in a first-floor apartment and being unable to erect outside antennas, I am having enough trouble making contacts with my 100-watt Icom amateur transceiver and indoor antenna (not to mention my 1.5-watt 2-meter rig with its own 3/8-wavelength indoor whip) as it is, without the threat of BPL making things 10 times worse.

IMO, the FCC really blew it when they authorized this service. If and when it finally becomes reality, it might force us apartment-dweller low-power hams out of the hobby for good. I hate to think my amateur license, which I recently renewed, may go unused the rest of its term if I can no longer use my gear due to the interference BPL is almost certain to cause on every HF amateur band.

BTW, Art Bell, W6AQ, no longer hosts Coast to Coast AM as one poster mentioned earlier in this thread. The present host is a gentleman by the name of George Noory, who is not a ham, to the best of my knowledge.

[Celt]

Art usually does the weekend shift on Saturday and Sunday nights. Makes for a nice "Burns" to George's "Allen" I think.

[Jeffhs]

The interference problems BPL will likely cause are not new by any means; local interference has been a problem for BC DXers and hams since the beginning of radio. For example, I live in an apartment building, and when anyone starts anything with an electric motor or a microwave, etc. it causes the devil of a lot of interference in my AM radios. During the day, all I can hear when this is going on are the big 50kW stations from Cleveland and Detroit (the noise all but completely chops out my favorite oldies station and a big-band/standards station 50 miles from here, not to mention appearing between stations from about 550 to 1400 KHz or so and completely wiping out weak signals in that range as well).

I don't think, however, that BPL will put an end to DXing; it will just make it more difficult, if and when the technology becomes widespread (which I am really not too sure will happen, at least no time soon). The FCC is a government agency, as we all know, and the government is usually very slow to get anything going. Witness the foot-dragging going on with HDTV.

[Adam]

Another old thread brought back for tonight:

I don't know anything about this BPL, but I was doing a little AM DXing myself having hooked a long copper wire to the little 1960s Zenith AM/FM table top set I keep on my desk, having been inspired by the "What's the longest distance ..." thread. And I found this Art Bell show you guys were talking about in this thread on a local station - 640 KFI. This show is actually interesting, it's the first AM talk show I've heard that I've actually liked, usually I abosolutely hate AM talk radio. As music stations on AM were slowly disappearing, I pretty much gave up on AM radios. I still have a few, but I stopped buying more, and haven't recapped most of what I have, because I never listen to them. I was considering using a small AM transmitter, but it just wasn't a high priority with me. Now I'm going to go see if my 1935 Trutone is still working.

[merrylander]

I'm just happy when Constipation Energy gets AC power to the house on a regular basis. I would not trust those crooks to give me internet access.

Rob

[dr.ido]

I don't know about the USA, but I can see BPL taking off if it is introduced here in Australia (I believe there are some trials underway). While it would be sad if the interference it causes wipes out some radio reception it is sorely needed here.

Right now we are held hostage by the phone companies forcing you to bundle phone service to get broadband. This adds $20+ per month on top of whatever internet plan you choose. Being able to get broadband without having to pay for a voice line I (and many others) don't need would save a lot of money.