Upconvert?!

[shrinkboy]

I recently installed my first HD home theater - based around a Vizio 1080p lcd screen and an Onkyo TX-SR705 HT receiver. while doing the istallation, i asked the guy about upconverting DVD players. he said, 'Don't bother'-- and went on to say that if it isn't there on the disc, then it can't be made to be there by an upconverting chip.

he went on to state that since blu-ray won the HD DVD war, that the players would drop to under $100 soon enough and to wait until that time.

BTW the way, the Onkyo receiver is very cool, and shockingly, it has a phono input and a tape loop. it is kinda weird to listen to vinyl in NeoCine6: Music Surround Mode.

but fun.

what do the many of you smarter than me think about my installer's comments?

[nakmandan]

True, Blu-ray won the format war but I don't see players dropping below $100 any time soon. I noticed right before HD-DVD officially quit that prices for both formats were dropping rapidly. Now that HD-DVD has given up, prices seem to have leveled off. The discs are nowhere near cheap either. Of course HD-DVD media and players are dirt cheap right now and prices should continue to slide.

On the other hand, upconverting disc players can be had for well under $100 and most DVD's can be had for well under $20. All three of my in use DVD players are upconverting and they all look great on my Samsung DLP screen.

I've got over 500 DVD's (no copies either) and I'm thoroughly satisfied with my upconverting players. Someday I will shell out the cash for BluRay but am in no hurry. Now your situation may be different however. If I did not have any good functioning DVD players on hand and had to buy one anyway, then I would make the change.

I think an upconverting player going through an HDMI or component cable will give satisfactory performance. Going through the composite video connection however would probably look terrible.

[emoxley]

Some people are buying the HD DVD players now, just for the upconversion abilities...... so I've read.

[uofmtiger]

'Don't bother'-- and went on to say that if it isn't there on the disc, then it can't be made to be there by an upconverting chip.
If you have a 1080p monitor the picture will be upconverted to the screen's resolution. Usually, upconverting DVD players do that job better than the TV.

he went on to state that since blu-ray won the HD DVD war, that the players would drop to under $100 soon enough and to wait until that time. I would be surprised to see that happen anytime soon. If I were in your shoes and wanted high def, I would buy a PS3. It will play BluRay & upcovert DVDs amongst other things. Since I believe your Onkyo has HDMI 1.3, it can also accept the lossless audio formats from the PS3.

If you do not want to spend that kind of money, the Oppo 980H is around $170 and will upconvert and play SACDs and DVD-As over the HDMI output. It does not play Blu-ray. Of course, some models of the PS3 (not all) will play SACDs, too.

Also, you can probably get a Toshiba HD DVD player pretty cheap (since HD DVD is for the most part dead) and it is supposed to be pretty good at upconverting DVDs.

[NeedForSpeed]

Regardless of what that guy says, If you've gone HD, You need an upconverting player. The main issue (There are others), Resolution. Dvd's are 480i resolution, Fine for the old 32" sony. Now we have a much bigger screen with resolution in 780p/1080i/1080p. The answer is the Video chip. It will take your old copy of "Top Gun", And convert not only the resolution, But solve scaling, interlacing, pull down and progressive scan issues. Also the frame per second on your non converting player ain't gonna cut it. Play a movie on a player from 5 years ago, Then pop one in to a good upconverting player. You won't forget the difference. All this has to do with the quality of the video processor, A player in the $200 range with the Faroudja/Genesis video processor is the ticket. Oppo/Samsung/Pioneer all use this current tech. So, Bottom line, That dude is outta his friggin mind!

[uofmtiger]

I forgot to mention that your Onkyo has Faroudija DCDi Edge Technology, so it can probably do an admirable job of converting 480i to 1080p (using HDMI) if you do not want to shell out for a new player.

[Rat44]

I only paid $50 for a Panasonic that upconverts.It looks decent to me.

[shrinkboy]

all very good info guys, and please keep it coming.

[whoaru99]

IMO, my brother brought over his BluRay player and we compared standard DVD, upconverted DVD, and high def Blu Ray.

There wasn't much difference to me on the standard vs upconverted DVD. Blu Ray, OTOH, was clearly far superior to both.

So, if it were me and I needed a new player but didn't want to get high def, I'd get one that upconverts. However, I have a non-upconverting player at present that does a pretty good job so I'm in no hurry to buy. That is, until the Panasonic BD50K Blu Ray player comes out in the near future.

[SpruceMoose]

in terms of just resolution conversion, either your new tv OR your dvd player HAS TO up-convert to fill the screen. the only question is which unit will do a better job. probably the newer of the two.

as far as frame rates (60 vs 24), the dvd player has to decide that.

[uofmtiger]

either your new tv OR your dvd player HAS TO up-convert to fill the screenAs I mentioned above, his receiver can also upconvert. It most likely will be better than the TV at doing this.

[shrinkboy]

I forgot to mention that your Onkyo has Faroudija DCDi Edge Technology, so it can probably do an admirable job of converting 480i to 1080p (using HDMI) if you do not want to shell out for a new player.

but the signal has to go out of the player via hdmi, correct? or will the receiver take the composite signal in from the dvd player, do the conversion and then ship it out to the screen via the hdmi hookup?

i've watched several dvd's on the new setup, using composite video out, and while the images look really, really good, i don't quite think i'm seeing hd level images. am i? the current player is a toshiba 3990, iirc....

also, i was watching miami vice. there were several sections of the show-action sequences shot in low light- that looked like crap. different screen artifacts the tech terms for which escape me. i know that this has a lot to do with the relative low levels of resolution of the nearly 25 year old analog video, and nothing to do with don johnson's acting, wardrobe, or haircut, but i still thought i'd ask.

[uofmtiger]

but the signal has to go out of the player via hdmi, correct? or will the receiver take the composite signal in from the dvd player, do the conversion and then ship it out to the screen via the hdmi hookup?.
According to the Onkyo website:
" TX-SR705 can also upconvert analog signals to HDMI so that all connected video sources can be outputted via one cable."

i've watched several dvd's on the new setup, using composite video out, and while the images look really, really good, i don't quite think i'm seeing hd level images. am i?
Upconverted to HD is not the same as HD. No doubt about it.

also, i was watching miami vice. there were several sections of the show-action sequences shot in low light- that looked like crapUpcoverting can only do so much with a picture. If the original source is complete crap, the best you can do it have a shinier version of it. The other issue is that you may not have your TV setup properly. Avia and Digital Essentials have DVDs that can help you get more out of your display.

[judgeschreber]

I'm pretty new to HD TVs, and I'm using a Sony 34" widescreen CRT with 1080i. So, I'm not an expert by any means.

However, I find the very inexpensive but highly-regarded Sony DVP-75 to do a MUCH better job of upconverting DVD's than the TV does. I don't know about your TV and receiver, though, so an upconverting player might not benefit your setup.

I researched a bit on the AVS forums, and it seems the OPPO and the Sony DVP-75 are the two most-recommended upconverters for standard def dvds. Since the Sony is cheaper and can be bought almost anywhere (the OPPO generally requires online ordering), I went with the Sony. However, the OPPO is also supposed to have outstanding SACD and DVD-audio playback, so if that's your thing, it might be worth it to go in that direction.

[whoaru99]

Upconverted to HD is not the same as HD. No doubt about it.



Yup. Upconverting is not remotely close to the same as "real" HD.

[Rat44]

The source material makes a lot of difference.There are many variables in setups.My cheap DVD player will only upconvert if output via HDMI cable.Composite outputs are standard definition.

[OMI]

FWIW I bought a copy of "Waking Ned Devine" a 1998 SDDVD form B&N on sale. Upconverted through my Toshiba HD-A30 to the HDTV and what a picture... Amazing color and detail plus a great little movie... Gotta love upconverting with a good player and a good SDDVD... Close to HD quality on this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waking_Ned_Devine

[Jack G]

Asa others have said, upscaling isn't as good as true HD, but it can look good, and usually a decent player will upscale better than the TV. As for sub $100 BD players coming soon, don't count on it.
Read this:
http://www.cepro.com/article/blu_ray_adoption_wont_happen_until_2009_research_f inds/

Jack

[70salesguy]

My 10 or 12 year old Sony DVD player was starting to "act up" a little. The picture would occasionally have no red and would require a little "pat" to restore the red. Also, it was less than tolerant to the fingerprints and smudges and occasional scratches found on rental DVDs. It was a given that you would have to clean each DVD prior to playing.

So I went ahead and bought a new Sony Upconverting DVD player. It looks notably better, how much is from the upconvert and how much is from the HDMI connection, who knows? A little prior research also revealed that this new Sony was very good at coping with scratches.

It also has a coaxial audio output that plugs into a coaxial audio input on my HT Receiver, which automatically recognizes the signal and switches the HT Receiver to the correct mode.

So far, it would appear that the new unit will result in a better picture and overall improved performance, all for less than $100!

Those HDMI cables are a bit pricey, though!:sigh: I checked ahead of time and found that a 3 foot cable would be sufficient. A 6 foot cable was $8.00 more than the 3 foot!

[subdermis2000]

FWIW I bought a copy of "Waking Ned Devine" a 1998 SDDVD form B&N on sale. Upconverted through my Toshiba HD-A30 to the HDTV and what a picture... Amazing color and detail plus a great little movie... Gotta love upconverting with a good player and a good SDDVD... Close to HD quality on this one...


We had the same experience with the SD version of Lawrence of Arabia. It looked fantastic. Then I checked it with our non-upconverting player. Same display and same disc but it looked no where near as good.

Edit: And I picked up Ned Devine last Friday and Omi's right, it's beautiful upconverted.

[70salesguy]

I can now say that my new Sony "Upconverting" DVD player makes the movies we watch look MUCH better!

Here's the real proof!

My wife will not watch a movie more than once, whereas I will watch a favorite many times. The other night we had watched "Untraceable". After the movie was finished, she says "We probably should go back and rent a few movies we've watched the last few years on the new DVD player" :sigh:

Now that's a testimony, brothers and sisters! :yes:

[OMI]

If any one is looking to get a good upconverting Standard / HDDVD player look at:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7942216

Cost $98.00

It will upconvert to 1080i. It appears to be a Toshibia HD-A3, but packaged as a Venturer High-Definition DVD Player, SHD7000. It appears that you can use the Toshiba firmware update disk for the HD-A3 with no problems...

This player will play both standard and HDDVD disk. No BluRay....

Forgot to mention that it is also HDMI capable...

[yrly]

I own both HD DVD and Blu-ray. Upconverting is by no means even remotely comparable. On a smaller set you might not notice a difference but on say a 42" or 50" set it should be fairly obvious that the Blu-ray/HD DVD is greatly superior.

As far as upconverting, bear in mind that most of the time the television's own conversion circuitry scales the signal to its native resolution. Thus some TVs will still look excellent with a 480i signal as the TV's scaling is just as good if not better than the player's. A good quality TV might do much better than a cheap player, its only when you get a good player that there might be a difference.

My Vizio 50" plasma has a DCDi chip, the results? Basically the HD DVD player (a good upscaler in its own right) upscaling looks not a whole heck of a lot different than the TV's doing of the same job.

My 42" Sony? Again here the TV is about as good or better than the player in most cases.

Samsung 27" CRT HDTV? Unnoticable. It should be noted that this TV also sports some of the best work I've ever seen out of a comb filter in a set, and makes Laserdiscs look amazing.

iLo 32" LCD? An old LCD of this size (2 1/2 years to be exact), from a cheap brand, you do notice some difference with upconverting here (using either HD DVD or Blu-ray players as the upconverting source).

Insignia 27" LCD? This TV seems to do more if the source is good, regardless of what the source is, and is very dependent upon it. If you feed it good content it does good, poor content it does poor. I watched Stepfather 2 on it tonight, upconverted and it looked great. I've seen other DVDs look terrible. One of the few TVs I've seen noticably benefit from upconverting.

Sanyo 30" CRT HDTV? This set scales all to its native 1080i using a name brand chip (which I forget the name of) unlike the Samsung (which uses its own Samsung devised solution to do so). Usually the upconversion is noticable here.

The basic thing I'm getting at? You might gain something if you've got a good player and a TV that does its own scaling less well than the player does. If the TV scales the signal better than the player it might actually look worse or no better. None will be comparable to most Blu-ray and HD DVD titles, even the worst of them (American Psycho on Blu-ray being a good example, it doesn't look terribly good on DVD and is so so in the realm of HD media, but the Blu-ray still looks tons better than if you attempt to upscale the DVD).

[shrinkboy]

yrly's last paragraph most clearly states what i think my installer was talking about as mentioned in my first post in this thread. i have since discovered that my receiver, as pointed out by uofmtiger, upscales all digital/analog signals when going through the HDMI connection. the receiver is an onkyo tx-sr705b (i don't know what makes it a 'b'). this is one HELL of a package. i am still uncovering its capabilities. for the price, i would find it difficult to imagine doing better. it even has a tape loop and a phono section.

also, for the record, i didn't have my 42" 1080 lcd screen hung up for 3 weeks before some asshole broke in the house and took it. am awaiting delivery of a new toshiba ....

[bobrown14]

Quote:also, for the record, i didn't have my 42" 1080 lcd screen hung up for 3 weeks before some asshole broke in the house and took it. am awaiting delivery of a new toshiba ..."

Wowsers that sucks - I've got the best analog security device around - my Chinese Shar-pei - looks like a real 1080i Pit Bull with much better manners for us folks at home. He likes watching digital cable as long as there's dogs on. Everything else he falls asleep. I have the Vizio 42 latest greatest for that size and model. It works great looks super too and I paid $1K at Costco. They are still more than that at Costco for the same model. The HT receiver you have should be heaven with some mighty fine old school speakers. The new stuff sucks ass.. I've got infinity all around and the sound is GREAT and I only have a 2 year old HK 430 - HDMI into TV from digital box and for sound I run a optical cable from the digital box to the receiver. sounds good .. real good. Would be better with that Onkyo receiver AND I could listen to my vinyl ta boot in surround sound, yeah u right.

Sorry to hear about your HDTV getting stolen.

Cheers,

Bob

[Onkwood]

I've got the best analog security device around - my Chinese Shar-pei - looks like a real 1080i Pit Bull with much better manners for us folks at home.
We've got a 200# English Mastiff. Another great security deterrent, though when she decides to stroll through the room and shake, we're left with a half gallon of high definition slobber all over the screen. :D