I found a tube radio in the shed.

[thefragger]

Me and my cousin were digging around in a neglected shed in my backyard and found a milk crate full of car parts. Digging through the crate we came across a radio.

From what my dad tells me it was used in my grandfather's barber shop way back when.

Restoring this radio is my new top priority.

I found one JUST like it (http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-BAKELITE-TUBE-RADIO-~-NICE!_W0QQitemZ380021431800QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL 0804250950a3538), except the auction description says that it has five tubes, where mine has four.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3827_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3827_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3830_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3830_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3828_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3828_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3829_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3829_sm.jpg)

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3831_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3831_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3832_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3832_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3833_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3833_sm.jpg)

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3834_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3834_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3835_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3835_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3836_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3836_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3837_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3837_sm.jpg)

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3839_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3839_sm.jpg) http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/th_IMG_3840_sm.jpg (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/the_fragger/GE%20Table%20Radio/IMG_3840_sm.jpg)


Capacitors have to be replaced, resistors have to be checked... etc. One thing I did notice is that there's no transformer for the wall power; there's just one for the speaker. Thoughts?


Cheers.

[jrsh92]

It's not uncommon to see radios like that running with no power transformer-- though it is unsafe. However, due to the plastic case, I have a feeling you're actually fine using it like that. Be careful working on it though, half the time, that metal chassis with have wall voltage on it!

[electroking]

There is no transformer because this is a so-called AC-DC radio. The tube
heaters are wired in series, they all draw the same current (usually 150 mA),
and their voltage drops (including a series resistor in some cases) is
approximately equal to line voltage. Plate supply is obtained with a
half-wave rectifier, that is a single diode in series with the line. Operation
with a 110 VDC line is possible if the correct polarity is observed,
otherwise you just reverse the plug (this is all historical as there are no
DC lines in use today, unless you wire 9 car batteries in series...).

AC-DC radio are very common, and most of them have five tubes, hence
the name AA5 (All American Five) to describe these radios. The one
you found is somewhat unusual in having only four tubes, it is a low-end
model without the IF amplifier stage, so less sensitive and selective.

The tube complement is likely to be 12BE6 pentagrid converter, 12AV6
detector and audio amplifier, 50C5 audio power amplifier, and 35W4
rectifier. You must be careful when working on such a radio under power,
as the circuitry is directly connected to the line. It is best to use an
isolation transformer.

Do some research with the keyword AA5, "AC-DC radio", and you should find
a lot of info. Good luck!

P.S. I just looked at your parts placement diagram, and it gives a 12AU6
pentode instead of the 12BE6 pentagrid converter. You will find some
info on the circuit if you do a little research. Bye for now.

[Old1625]

Some of these "affordable" table radios came through either with or without an active IF amplification stage. Some had the stage with 2 transformers--one bef0re and one after--while others had one IF transformer after the converter that immediately fed the "2nd detector" stage. In NYC such a radio would do OK--on strong local stations I guess.... :rolleyes:

[Sandy G]

The case should clean up fine w/warm water, a mild detergent, & some elbow grease applied w/an old toothbrush. TAKE IT EASY, though- It could be close to 50 years old, & the plastic may be quite brittle, or have some unseen cracks in it. The chassis can be cleaned w/ ammonia, a toothbrush, and Q-tips. You prolly WON'T win any DXing awards w/this little guy, but hey, it has some personal history, & that's worth a lot...Good luck !

[thefragger]

There is no transformer because this is a so-called AC-DC radio. The tube heaters are wired in series, they all draw the same current (usually 150 mA), and their voltage drops (including a series resistor in some cases) is approximately equal to line voltage. Plate supply is obtained with a half-wave rectifier, that is a single diode in series with the line. Operation with a 110 VDC line is possible if the correct polarity is observed, otherwise you just reverse the plug (this is all historical as there are no DC lines in use today, unless you wire 9 car batteries in series...).

AC-DC radio are very common, and most of them have five tubes, hence the name AA5 (All American Five) to describe these radios. The one you found is somewhat unusual in having only four tubes, it is a low-end model without the IF amplifier stage, so less sensitive and selective.

The tube complement is likely to be 12BE6 pentagrid converter, 12AV6 detector and audio amplifier, 50C5 audio power amplifier, and 35W4 rectifier. You must be careful when working on such a radio under power, as the circuitry is directly connected to the line. It is best to use an isolation transformer.

Do some research with the keyword AA5, "AC-DC radio", and you should find a lot of info. Good luck!

P.S. I just looked at your parts placement diagram, and it gives a 12AU6 pentode instead of the 12BE6 pentagrid converter. You will find some info on the circuit if you do a little research. Bye for now.

Thank you very much for the background on this design. I'll definitely look for a plauseable schematic before poking around in the amp I have-- it's literally crumbling to pieces each time I touch it.


The case should clean up fine w/warm water, a mild detergent, & some elbow grease applied w/an old toothbrush. TAKE IT EASY, though- It could be close to 50 years old, & the plastic may be quite brittle, or have some unseen cracks in it. The chassis can be cleaned w/ ammonia, a toothbrush, and Q-tips. You prolly WON'T win any DXing awards w/this little guy, but hey, it has some personal history, & that's worth a lot...Good luck !

Thanks for the pointers. There's no shortage of elbow grease over here, but one thing I did notice is that under the tuning cap there's another tube socket with wires running to it and everything... interesting.

Also, how should I go about replacing the current tube sockets? Just mount them to the chassis, solder 'em up and call it a day?

Although this radio may have been a cheap model, it has great personal value... my grandfather passed away last year and this would be great to have up and running again.


Thanks guys again for the pointers.

Philip.

[toxcrusadr]

Are the tube sockets disintegrating? Normally you shouldn't have to replace them. Although if has phenolic wafer sockets and it spent a long time in a shed...

[toxcrusadr]

BTW schematics may often be found at nostalgiaair.com.

[GordonW]

Hey, I think I have some pieces (transformer, etc) saved away from a chassis almost just like that. My grandfather, too, had one of those... but his got mangled (broken case, bent chassis) at some time, and I salvaged it for parts.

I am pretty sure I at least have the speaker transformer left... maybe the speaker itself. If you can't get yours going, lemme know...

Regards,
Gordon.

[thefragger]

Hey, I think I have some pieces (transformer, etc) saved away from a chassis almost just like that. My grandfather, too, had one of those... but his got mangled (broken case, bent chassis) at some time, and I salvaged it for parts.

I am pretty sure I at least have the speaker transformer left... maybe the speaker itself. If you can't get yours going, lemme know...

Regards,
Gordon.

Very cool Gordon, thanks for the offer. So far from what I can tell the speaker is seized. I can't get the voice coil to move, unfortunately. Is there a way to fix this?

Philip.

[Tom Bavis]

4" speaker? I should have one that will work... this radio is going to end up like the proverbial axe that used to belong the George Washington - the head has been replaced four times, the handle seven...

A model number would help to locate a schematic... Riders (23 BIG volumes) and Beitmans (27 smaller ones) are online, and I have four file drawers of the Sams folders...

[thefragger]

4" speaker? I should have one that will work... this radio is going to end up like the proverbial axe that used to belong the George Washington - the head has been replaced four times, the handle seven...

A model number would help to locate a schematic... Riders (23 BIG volumes) and Beitmans (27 smaller ones) are online, and I have four file drawers of the Sams folders...

Cool, thanks. From what I've read online it's a model 419 (http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-419-TUBE-AM-TABLE-RADIO-WORKS_W0QQitemZ290167389656QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3803 4QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1 638Q2em118Q2el1247). That site that was posted earlier had a model #417 and a model #430 and neither of them look like the right circuit.

Would any 4" speaker do it, or would it have to be super efficient. I"ll have to test the transformer and make sure that's not shorted out.

Also, there are mounds of wax in the bottom of the case. Should I be worried about those?

[Tom Bavis]

Any speaker that fits should be fine. Almost all of these small ones are 4 Ohms (or 3.2). The wax melted off those caps over a hot summer in the shed...

Model 419 isn't in Beitmans or Riders, but it's in Sams #231-8 (1954) - I'll check for that one when I get home tonight.

[Bryantenn]

Another great source of information and expertise is at Antiqueradios.com. These guys really know their stuff and typically can help you figure out almost any restoration issue. A schematic is essential, however. The mounds of wax are probably from the wax covered paper capacitors under the chassis. They will all need to be replaced. Check JustRadios.com for a great source of capacitors and resistors for vintage electronics. Bryan

[Bryantenn]

Ok, Philip. I took another look at your pictures and I have to say that you may be over your head in trying to restore that chassis. (I know I would be) Problem is that it's obviously been exposed to water and a rusty chassis is a tough position to be starting from, especially if this is a first attempt at restoration. I'd be inclined to find another radio with the same form-factor chassis, concentrate on reconditioning your grandfather's cabinet and install the new guts in your fixed up cabinet. You might even be able to re-use the tubes from the original if the pins aren't fused to the tube sockets. (I like to think of the tubes as the soul of the radio, so moving them from the original chassis to the "donor" chassis keeps it "authentic" as far as your grandfather's radio is concerned.

Just my opinion, but that chassis is too far gone (and very easy to find a near-exact replacement) to warrant an all out attempt at restoration.

Bryan

[toxcrusadr]

He's got a point. It's not a rare radio, these 50s plastic AA5 type sets are all over the place, maybe you could find an exact duplicate on the bay from Granny's closet that's a lot cleaner to start with.

[RetroHacker]

I realize that this thing is in bad shape - for most of us, it would be a parts set. But, it's really not that hard to get it back into shape. It's already been exposed to a lot of moisture, as it evidence by the rust. Start out by cleaning it:

Remove all the tubes, remove the speaker and output transformer. Remove anything else bolted on. Clean and scrub with whatever you see fit. Try to clean off the rust the best you can. Don't worry about getting it wet, it's already been plenty wet. Isopropyl alcohol, windex and water are all pretty good cleaners. Brake parts cleaner is good for cleaning gunky metal, but watch out, it can dissolve some plastics. Avoid the coils as best you can. Avoid bending the tuning cap. It needs to be clean - but the plates can't touch or short out.

Allow radio chassis to completely dry. Clean the cabinet with warm soapy water and a toothbrush.

Replace all the paper capacitors. Replace the electrolytic capacitors. Check and replace off-tolerance resistors. Leave the couplate (multi-legged component combo) and ceramic/mica caps alone. This is a very simple radio, you probably won't need a schematic - but it isn't hard to get one, either. Check NostalgiaAir. You'll probably need a new speaker, that one looks too far gone to save. The audio output transformer should be fine - check it to be sure it's not shorted, and more importantly, that both windings have continuity.

Parts for this kind of radio are not hard to get. These are easy to work on, and it's a very simple, robust design. I would wager that after some new caps, it'll work.

You have to remember, that these radios were made by the THOUSANDS. The same basic four and five tube radio was made by almost every manufacturer, and they were electrically almost all the same. Any part you could possibly need will be easy to get. And, once again, it's a simple design - I think there are only about fifty parts in that thing, total. Including the knobs and line cord. Even if you wind up replacing all of the electrical components under the chassis, it will be a good learning experiance. And not very expensive.

Start with a good cleaning and all new caps and a new speaker. I'd give it a 75% chance of working after that. The only thing that would be tough is if the coils somehow corroded.

-Ian

[electroking]

Hello again,

Imagine the pride you could get from salvaging this badly corroded radio.
I fully agree with RetroHacker!

I would only add one little point: the output transformer is probably rivetted
to the speaker frame, so separating the two could be a bit complicated.
However, many radios with 50C5 audio output used this kind of speaker/
transformer assembly, so a replacement should not be hard to locate.

The most valuable (and hardest to replace) parts are the variable capacitor,
which should clean out fairly easily, the coils and the couplate (the small
ceramic plate with several leads). If you can keep these, along with
the chassis and cabinet of course, you could still claim that this is the
same radio your grandfather owned. Good luck!

[dspear99ca]

Only seems reasonable to temper the excitement generated by the possibility of weeks of hard work and expense with a tiny dose of dissenting opinion:

I guess sentimental value is value, but I'd toss it in the trash after salvaging the tubes. These things were made by the bazillion, they are cheap and plentiful even today thanks to eBay. You will spend 20 times what the radio is worth on parts, maybe more once you factor in shipping. The absolute best-case outcome is to end up with a hot chassis mono four-tube radio with poor sensitivity. Whereas most DIYers value their time at zilch, I think we can do better than the advice given, gentlemen.

[thefragger]

Only seems reasonable to temper the excitement generated by the possibility of weeks of hard work and expense with a tiny dose of dissenting opinion:

I guess sentimental value is value, but I'd toss it in the trash after salvaging the tubes. These things were made by the bazillion, they are cheap and plentiful even today thanks to eBay. You will spend 20 times what the radio is worth on parts, maybe more once you factor in shipping. The absolute best-case outcome is to end up with a hot chassis mono four-tube radio with poor sensitivity. Whereas most DIYers value their time at zilch, I think we can do better than the advice given, gentlemen.

Thank you for your opinion, but here's a quarter; call someone who cares. I loved and respected my grandfather and this would mean much more than some shitty death-trap radio on a table to me and the rest of my family.


Sandy G, jrsh92, Electroking, GordonW, Tom Bavis, Bryantenn, toxcrusadr, and RetroHacker; thank you very much for your kind words, advice, and for outlining step-by-step what needs to be done... and not being pretentious about it.


Philip.

[toxcrusadr]

You know, I'd say ALL the advice given here is factually and philosophically good. It's your decision what you want to do.

The flagship of my collection is an ornate 1928 Apex console that belonged to my grandmother. I spent more than what the radio was worth to have a guy fabricate an entire replacement power supply. I love that radio.

Keep us posted on your project!

[dspear99ca]

Thank you for your opinion, but here's a quarter; call someone who cares. I loved and respected my grandfather and this would mean much more than some shitty death-trap radio on a table to me and the rest of my family.

No need to be rude, there, Skippy.

Get a thicker skin. If you ask for opinions, then be prepared to see some which don't agree with your own. In contrast to your snarky reply, I believe my original post to be factual and lacking in any degree of condescension or pretense as you accuse.

If you want to honor your grandfather's memory, why don't you do something productive with your time instead of restoring an old piece of junk which was in all likelihood entirely incidental to his life. I loved and respected my grandpappy too, but if I found the rusty old shovel he used to use to muck out the stalls in the barn out back, I wouldn't keep it in my livingroom just because it happened to belong to him.

[AU20K]

Cool radio. Please post pix as you move through this.