Seeking recommendations for non-Linn tone arm for an LP12...

[DM2/2]

Hi All,

I currently own a 1982 vintage LP12 with no mods. It has a Signet XK50 arm on it that I put on when I bought the table.

What I'm looking for is a recommendation on a newer arm that might sound better than the Signet. My only complaint with the deck right now is that there is a lot of "mechanical" noise in between tracks on records when played. I've played around with a bunch of stuff on the deck, I use either a Grado Platinum or Shure V15VMR cart, both set up using the old Dennesen Soundtracktor. The music sounds very good, but I think there's room for improvement. Tracking is OK also, its just like I'm hearing the "player" noise in between music.

Budget is somewhat limited (under $1K). I've looked at the Regas, Origin Live, AudioQuest PT9, and some others. Not interested in unipivot, they don't seem "right" to me for some odd reason.

And if anyone wants to weigh in on "useful" factory upgrades I'd appreciate that info also. I believe mine is box stock, no upgrades.

Any input would be appreciated. Tanx!

[RickB]

What do you mean by "mechanical noise"? Bearing noise, or motor noise? Hum?

If you are hearing these kind of noises from the deck then maybe it's time for it to have a full service by someone who knows the Sondek!

The only noise you should have in the blank areas between songs should be what's coming off the vinyl surface...if you are getting mechanical noise, then there's something wrong with your deck...

Setting up one isn't hard, if you know what you are doing...if you don't...well...you can really mess things up and make them sound dreadful...

If you don't plan on upgrading the deck, which if you have bearing noise you may have to...then I'd look for an Ittok first....then maybe a Rega with an Incognito rewire job...

The OL arms, at least the ones in your price range, are, well, I was really underwhelmed with the build quality of the Silver and Illustrious arms that I rewired with the Incognito kits....they did go up a notch in sound with the one piece wiring vs. the "stock" OL cabling....The OL rewires, external+ internal, that I have seen end up with five solder joints and three types of wire between cartridge tags and the RCA plug...the Incognito has two solder joints and one unbroken run of wire...

If you have to get a Rega arm, get an RB250, put the Michell counterweight on it and have it rewired with the Incognito kit....or just by a Michell TechnoArm....

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/pic/tur/tecnoarm_t.jpg

You'll also have to get an armboard drilled for the Rega's geometry...

OK, I reread your post and it seems as if you believe that the unit is "box stock"...that implies to me that you haven't had the unit serviced by someone who knows what they are doing...that would be my first step before replacing anything! Get the deck sorted out and serviced first, then worry about the arm!




Good Luck

[DM2/2]

Thanks...

It's hard to describe the sound the deck is making during the silence between cuts. I guess the only thing I could compare it to is how some players are/can be microphonic during playback on speakers with the volume turned up. For example, put the cartridge on the record with the turntable stationary (not rotating) and then turn the volume up and listen for external noises/vibration/acoustic feedback. What I'm hearing is that kind of "liveness" of acoustic breakthrough, but the source of the noise seems to be the deck itself. Right now the deck is connected to a preamp and then to my computer sound card only for transcribing vinyl to digital so it's not something that could be caused by vibration from speakers.

I guess it could be bearing noise. I did reposition the arm years ago when I bought a second hand arm-board from a friend. I had originally mounted the XK in a blank board that I got with the deck but I didn't do a very good job lining things up. I still could get the cart to line up using the soundtracktor but the sound was never 100%. Using the predrilled board made things better but I think the arm's a bit too long for the table as I had to mount the cart all the way back on the fixed headshell mount. That seemed to make things quieter for some reason but I could never get the quiet passages quiet.

I need to do some more experimenting but I also need to look into having the deck serviced as well if I choose to pursue this further.

Thanks for your time. Any suggestions on who you would recommend to do the setup would be greatly appreciated. I'm in the western NY area.

Cheers!

[vicdiaz]

What about the suspension? If you draw an imaginary line between the tonearm collar and the spindle and you gently tap the middle point of the line, does the platter bounces up and down with no side-to-side wobbling??

If not, the suspension is not correctly set up and I recommended taking the LP12 to a knowledgeable dealer or someone with enough experience and patience to set it up correctly.

In one of the Linn forums in the internet there is a video showing up how the TT should bounce if set up correctly. Try the Topica forum.

[DM2/2]

Thanks all,

I guess I was just curious as to what the response would be be about an arm upgrade. I have no idea relative to today's technology how good the XK50 arm is/was. I don't even know how it would have faired against a Linn arm back when I bought it. I knew I wouldn't be throwing multi-hundred dollar carts at it so I guess I figured you get what you pay for, why spend big $$ on an arm when the most you'd spend on a cart was $200 or $300, not that I'll be spending more than that nowadays, although maybe more than $300.

I know I need to check into the whole balancing thing, I feel I'm capable of doing that myself, if and when I can find a weekend to mess with it.

As I said before, I also need to drag out some of the "good" vinyl and listen again to the silence in between tracks to get a better idea of the noise source, whether it is surface noise or machine noise. I also know that VTA can affect this, there are a lot of variables which can drive someone with OCD over the wall. Makes that digital nonsense somewhat easier to deal with, but certainly not sound quality-wise. I prefer this source and all analog in general, I had just forgotten the number of variables that can affect a TT setup.

My "other" table is a 70's vintage Thorens TD125 MkII with the stock arm. Unfortunately I have only one headshell so I can't easily change carts out but it's a very nice table and I look forward to playing with that one a bit more. I have to find somewhere, maybe here, where I might be able to find someone who will sell me a headshell for my TP16 arm, but that's for another place and time.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate your time.

[hifi_nut]

Get your LP-12 properly serviced first, then give some serious consideration to Naim´s unipivot "Aro".

Costly and finnicky, but probably one of the best matches to the venerable LP-12.

Failing that, and at a much lower price, making it one of the greatest hi-fi bargains ever, the Rega 250 / 300B with the Michel counterweight, as suggested above. Add a Sumilo Blue Point Special and you´re in heaven

Jorge

[jcmjrt]

I'm going to join the crowd and say get it serviced before proceeding further.

As to the arm, if you decide to change it out and better the Signet - I'd think about an RB700. Keep the cartridges you've got IF they are in good condition and wait to see what you like as the Shure and Grado you mention are both decent. Get everything set up well and your TT isolated.
If you still want to upgrade then, you'll know what each change did for you. Have fun with that LP12 - very nice TTs when properly maintained and set-up.

[Bigerik]

Gotta ask why you don't want a Linn arm? Unless I missed something, you could get something like an Ittok for your budget and that will make GREAT music on that table.
I agree with getting it serviced tho. Make the table right before you do anything else.

[DM2/2]

Hi and thanks for the interest and info.....

Ok, I always thought the Linn arms, unless I bought used, would be more like $2K or more. Haven't looked 'cause I thought I couldn't afford one. Not really keen on buying something like that used from eBay or similar. Even at $1k I'm pushing it but I'd like to think it would make a difference on this table. I only spent $600 - $800 on the table w/o an arm, so spending $2k on an arm seemed kinda silly to me..... could be wrong, probably am.

Didn't know if the Rega arms would work on an LP12, and then there's the whole no VTA adjust thing going on. The Michell looks very nice. Anyone have any opinions on the approx. $575 Michell arm?

And thanks on the Aro suggestion, I guess one of the Stereophile writers has one on his LP, I'm just not a unipivot guy. Prefer the whole lotsa bearings no wobble approach (not that I know anything about the Aro, I should look into this before I spout off....) Any unipivot experience is from many years ago, maybe they're not so "floppy" now.... ;-)

Lastly, can anyone suggest a reputable setup person/ business on the east coast I can contact? I don't want to go to just anyone, and I know there's no one in the city I live in. And, would any setup survive UPS?? I have the original box, but can't see spending big $$ only to have UPS dismember the thing....

Thanks again, fixing this table up is one of the items on my bucket list.....:D

For when my kids put me in the home for old musicians, I can still listen to my tunes!

[dowser]

LP12 Set-up is not the black art some suggest it is. Main item is arm cable dressing to ensure it has no impact on suspension, then adjust suspension level and check for up-down bounce with no radial movement. Any radial movement of suspension, check that suspension mounting bolts are straight.

I bought a 1977 LP12 early this year - platter was scraping on top plate and stylus was the most worn I have ever heard. Fitted new stylus, adjusted suspension and it sings. I fitted a rewired RB250 with RB300 counter weight and a Denon DL110.

Richard

[markc2]

Mine was made in Aug 4th 1979. The Ittok VII was a really big step up for me. I realize that is a Linn arm but it was still really good.

[RickB]

Time for a report on what you've decided on the Sondek!

Did you find a good setup guy?

Or, were you able to go and find the setup guide and take care of the deck yourself?

I saw Linn springs and bushings on ebay the other day so it should be possible to easily get what you need to refurbish the suspension...

And the correct and proper factory belt should also be quieter than most of the aftermarket ones...

I've looked into the Signet arm you have and haven't found any info, is it like a big brother of the XK35?

http://www.vinylengine.com/images/model/signet_xk35.jpg

If it is then it should be a fine tonearm on the Linn...


So, what's happenin'?

.

[Butch1970]

I'm in a similar spot, having just picked up a 1983 Linn LP-12. It came with a Basik LV-X arm and no cartridge (Dynavector 10x5 on the way).

I haven't listened to the TT yet, but I'm pretty sure that I'll be upgrading the arm at some point. I'll be looking into the recommendations that have been posted so far.

Has anyone had any experience with using the SME 3009 with the Linn? Also, I'm wondering if Origin Live has changed their wiring at all with the new MK3 versions? Like DM2/2, I'd also like to know if the Audioquest arm mates well with the LP-12.

[DM2/2]

Hi guys...

Well, what happened is summer happened, and in Buffalo that's the 6 week period when it's NOT winter..... so, I haven't done anything. I've also had a job switch back to my old job and endured a subsequent trip to the FL panhandle for 5 weeks....... so the info supplied by all has gone into the mental archive.

I DID fix an old TEAC tape deck for a friend while I was fixing my dryer, but other than that I have no new news to report.

There are more travels in the future, so I don't know when I'll be home long enough to play sotospeak....

Although, I want to archive some vinyl to the PC in order to feed my iPod so I have music to listen to during my various trips, so I may take a few hours to play with the suspension and see if I can get it to bounce properly. I've already addressed the tonearm cable issue, so now I have to mess with the springs and see what happens.

It's my understanding that you have to rotate the springs to get it to move properly. Anyone know the procedure? I would imagine rotate one at a time, but seeing as the relative position of one against the other two would be somewhat random, I wouldn't even know if I was making the situation better or worse, get my drift?

Oh well, an excuse to not do what I should be doing (car repair), guess I can't complain about it too much....

[REXMONDAY]

The Akito tone arm is a little basic but should easily be bought on ebay for $300-400 second hand, as for cartridges please avoid the K9 and maybe get a mid budget Ortofon which work very well with the Akito, this could be done for the $500 dollar budget!

[DM2/2]

Hi all,

Just watched an Ittok LVII (?) go for $450 on eBay, I think I'm just gonna wait until I come across another one for sale somewhere (I don't have a PayPal account and was not in a position to bid on it...). I was also looking at the Arttech website and their $595 modified RB, but I think I'll just wait until I spot another Ittok. The $450 is in my range and will leave me something left over for cartridge fun..... The table is pretty much stock for it's vintage and I think this would be the best option at this time.

Unless someone has something to offer? I'm open to any opinions....

I also appreciate all the info posted to date. I did find some setup info on the web, so I have to devote some time (like a weekend maybe) to mess with springs until I go mad..... ;-)

Actually, since it's sitting right here I did the bounce check. If I press the middle of the turntable on the spindle it pretty much goes up and down. If I press somewhere between and in line with the spindle and the pivot of the arm the bouncing is somewhat erratic. Everything I've read is based on pressing on the spindle, so I guess it's not too bad off.

Oh, and the S/N is 035626. I'll have to look around and see if I can determine the vintage.

Thanks again, I'll let you know if I have any updates.

Cheers!