What speakers to use ???? Newer HT speakers or Old school JBLs, Altecs?

[MJ Clemmer]

Hi, To start off with I am running the B & K AVR-507 HT Ultra 2 receiver 7.1 ~~~That being said, I want opinions from all of you what YOU would use. I have Altec 19s for mains right now, a EC-35 JBL Northridge center, JBL 4311s for middles and JBL 4652 pro theater for the rear surrounds. I have a JAMO SW600 twin 10" sub along with a Wharfandale Power cube 12 as the subs. I have a 65" Mitts for the HDTV. NOW, Alot of you have this gear along with NEWER Klipsch speakers, JBL, Paridigm etc... My question is, Will the NEWER speakers that are designed for HT better to run your amp with than the older gear? Now I think it sounds pretty good, but Id like to know if it would be better with PARIDIGNS, Klispch etc... instead? I want to know If Im missing out on something that is out there and IM to attached to the older gear. You know how it is, I told my wife when I bought the B & K 507 , "I already have the speakers, so I wont have to buy any of the newer ones" , Is that the wrong way to approch this? If anyone is in the area of Milwaukee WISCONSIN, come over, and see what I mean. Ive heard some good reveiws of the Paridign V9s and Klispch senergys, BUT dont know if they would be better that what Im using.... I think or hope Im explaining it right... TOSS in your opinion, Id LOVE to hear it. I need to be educated on HT..... thanks nd sorry for rabling...... MJ:thmbsp:

[whoaru99]

I would use the ones that sound most alike.

To me, that's a big part of HT...using speakers that have similar tonality for the most seamless soundfield possible.

As far as newer speakers vs older ones, it's hard to say. Boils down to what you prefer for sound. There are some very fine speakers produced today at relatively reasonable prices. Of course, if you're use to finding speakers on the curb that were quite expensive in their day, and compare to buying new speakers, it's likely nothing seems like much of a bargain.

[gyusher]

You've got quite a combination right now. If you like it keep it.

If it was me I'd invest in a good center or use a regular speaker for center provided you like it.

Other than timbre differences that some make way too much of the biggest differences between old and newer speakers used for HT are shielding so the speakers can be used near a display. Most older ones are not shielded however if your TV is like mine (LCD) shielding is a non issue making the whole speaker thing wide open.

In my mind the biggest thing between different speakers used for HT is sensitivity along with timbre matching. sensitivity being most important to me so it is easier to match the levels. Pretty tough matching an 86dB speaker to a 100dB speaker and maintaing that balance through their range without toasting one ore the other. . .

[MJ Clemmer]

Thanks for the replies, What kind of speakers do you use? So, Its most important that the sensitivaty is matched more so. The Center speaker Im using I thought was pretty good , The JBL EC 35 Northridge, But If Im using them other speakers that dont match it, it wont work as much, right? I was told to make all the settings on the reciever to SMALL speakers evn though they are big to channel the low end to the sub, is that the right thing to do? Im NEW at the HT and ussally have the AUDIO GEAR for Music ( Ive got a G 8000 and other rigs for music) but HT is a nother beast of its own. Thats why Im trying to learn more about it. I may not even be setting my Amp up right ( the manual looks like you need a PHD to figure it out) so that may be a part of my problem... thats another reason I wanted opinions, I dont have the newer HT speakers (YET) to compare them to what I have. Maybe Ill try some matched Klispch, orJBLs..... Thanks again guys.... MJ

[gyusher]

Typically you want your speakers set to 'small' (yes even your big Altecs) providing you have a good subwoofer. If your receiver has an automatic setup mode don't use it because it will set any speaker that plays below 60hz to large. Use your manual setup mode and set it using your SPL meter.

Typically again you set everything off your 2 front speakers. In other words they will be your "0" point you go up or down with the others until they all are producing the same sound pressure level using your meter to check.

If you use an ineffecient speaker combined with effecient speakers you may not be able to match your levels with the 10 clicks up or down from your 2 fronts.

I remember being +10 on some and -10 on others yet still unable to get them the same. Most of the time if all your speakers are of the same effeciency the receivers default position ("0") will do fine for all of them unless your room is an odd configuration.

Usually you want your subwoofer to be 10dB hotter than your other speakers. This makes up for meter error and your ears natural roll off at low frequencies. A 10-15dB hot setting will give you the thump you want when (and only when) the program calls for it. Otherwise you don't want to hear it.

you will get cross over numbers all over the map but you will be best served setting it at 80hz unless your mains are very small. . . You also need to consider your sub's effeciency rating too. You don't want it to far off either. You have more control with the sub controls plus the receiver's controls but I have seen trouble there too. That said however if your sub is a typical HT/Music sub you will do fine.


Of course there are exceptions to every rule but unless you have all full range speakers and amps strong enough to push them things might be different. Don't expect a lowly HT receiver to have the grunt you need to run all FR speakers at levels you might want to listen to. The numbers I gave you are generic but will work just fine.

[MJ Clemmer]

What would a good ( or desent) SPL meter to buy? Price range? I have a TON of mics for it , if it needs one. Ive never used one. Anyone here near Milwaukee? thanks,,MJ:music:

[BajaGringo]

If you want to run everything off one AV amp you might be better off using similar speakers. I use the preouts from the AV and run each channel into integrated amps. I like the control better and the old school monsters pump out an awesome sound in my living room. I have the setup posted in another thread here somewhere...

:music:

[gyusher]

What would a good ( or desent) SPL meter to buy? Price range? I have a TON of mics for it , if it needs one. Ive never used one. Anyone here near Milwaukee? thanks,,MJ:music:

Radio Shack has as good of one that you can buy for reasonable money. If I remember right they have a couple models ranging from around 29 or 39 bucks for the analog version (prefered) to around 50 bucks for the digital version. I got my latest one from SVS subs when I bought my last sub.

If you use seperate amps use stand alone power amps as they will be controled by the preamp or your receiver providing it has pre-outs.

Using Integrated amps does work and you can get some extra control but I never cared for daisy chaining volume controls. It can get confusing and you chance disrupting your setup when and if someone starts spinning the amps volume control after you get it set up.

I can see where in some cases that flexibility can be a good thing but usually it is unecessary. Now if Integrated amps are all that you have then its a different story.

Crossing your sub and setting all your speakers at 'small' takes a tremendous load off your receivers amps as they now don't have to run their guts out trying to reproduce that low bass. Even a modest entry level receiver will provide volume levels louder than you want to use when used in this manner.

[MJ Clemmer]

If you want to run everything off one AV amp you might be better off using similar speakers. I use the preouts from the AV and run each channel into integrated amps. I like the control better and the old school monsters pump out an awesome sound in my living room. I have the setup posted in another thread here somewhere...

:music:

I suppose I could try that, Ive got a Crown 300 Amps and some B & K 140s, Have you seen the B & K AVR 507? If so, can it be hooked up like that? I would LOVE to do that. So basicly Id be using the 507 as a pre amp decoder.:scratch2:

[BajaGringo]

Here is my setup that I had posted in another thread...

My surround system in my living room includes 10 speakers, 5 amps and a powered Yamaha sub-woofer being decoded off a Yamaha A-1 DSP. I have a Yamaha AX-450 amplifier pushing two NS500M's in parallel for a dual center channel effect and they are raised up 8 feet off the floor and pointed towards the sweet spot of my listening room from each respective corner.

I run my front channels off two sets of speakers fed by two SAE A102 amplifiers from a SAE P102 preamp. The speakers are arranged in a box-like arrangement to surround the room's sweet spot and include my HPM-1100's in the front, 15" off the ground and 10 feet away in each corner. The front channel "box" is completed with a pair of HPM-100's/200watt just behind and 8 feet to each side, 20" off the floor.

For rear channel speakers I use another pair of HPM-100's/200 watt fed off a Sansui AU-717 amplifier and are placed approximately 15 feet behind the sweet spot and to each side, 24" off the floor.

The rear center channel is fed from the DSP in parallel to a pair of Polk Audio's M60's suspended 10 feet back and 10 feet high, pointed at an angle down towards the sweet spot.

A Sansui TU-717 tuner, Sansui SC-1330 Cassette Deck and Tascam CD-01U CD Player round out the rest of the gear. All of my audio gear is rack mounted in a 7 foot high Compaq server cabinet that includes a 30,000+ song digital library with rack mounted pull out keyboard and monitor and high speed internet access. It is all set up so I can easily go from surround to pure stereo with a flick of a switch and push some great old school through my analog amps and the speakers of my choice.

This arrangement includes close to a 1000 watts RMS power through the different amps and allows me to "personalize" the audio response in each surround channel and speaker based on my listening taste and room acoustics. It is a bit unique I suppose but I could never go back to anything else now.

:music:

[gyusher]

I suppose I could try that, Ive got a Crown 300 Amps and some B & K 140s, Have you seen the B & K AVR 507? If so, can it be hooked up like that? I would LOVE to do that. So basicly Id be using the 507 as a pre amp decoder.:scratch2:

That B&K 507 has everything you need. Plenty of power, enough to not be able to stay in the room.

Unless you have a very large room or very ineffecient speakers you don't need outboard amps. that said however I'm sure that 507 will do just about anything you want.

kinda depends on what you want. If your HT system is going to be the backbone of all your audio needs then things start to change. Most folks here use stereo for music and the big money is in those systems with their Ht systems being more of a stable family platform that doesn't change except for necessary upgrades.

Audio and video are changing pretty fast where the future will require multi channel systems and what we saw as television will change to more of an internet style or format with everything being on demand.

In only a few months there will be no more analog TV and if you get your TV OTA you are going to need a decoder box.

Point being the sky is the limit. You have many ways to skin that cat. . .

[MJ Clemmer]

kinda depends on what you want. If your HT system is going to be the backbone of all your audio needs then things start to change. Most folks here use stereo for music and the big money is in those systems with their Ht systems being more of a stable family platform that doesn't change except for necessary upgrades.

Audio and video are changing pretty fast where the future will require multi channel systems and what we saw as television will change to more of an internet style or format with everything being on demand.
.

I Just want to let you know that THIS system will and is used for MOVIES AND HOME THEATER ONLY, Not Audio, I have another system decicated for Audio only, I know that HT and Homew Audio are 2 differant beasts:thmbsp: I was considering getting a pair of the Klispch Senergys for the "mid surrounds", Ive been hearing alot of good things about them......MJ

[subdermis2000]

I Just want to let you know that THIS system will and is used for MOVIES AND HOME THEATER ONLY, Not Audio, I have another system decicated for Audio only, I know that HT and Homew Audio are 2 differant beasts:thmbsp: I was considering getting a pair of the Klispch Senergys for the "mid surrounds", Ive been hearing alot of good things about them......MJ


I tried the mish-mash route for HT for a while and ended up going all new Polk for the fronts, centre, and side surrounds with some very similar speakers doing duty as rears. The only reason being that I couldn't get the balanced sound that HT requires out of my other stuff. With the odds and sods stuff I even tried different speakers in different channels but I just couldn't get the subtle channel level differences set that are so necessary for a surround source to be properly played back.

At first I didn't believe but now I know what HT speaker manufacturers mean when they talk about "voicing". I'm a believer now.

[whoaru99]

I know that HT and Homew Audio are 2 differant beasts:thmbsp:

Oh, I dunno about that.

If a speaker sounds good for music, it oughta sound good for HT.

The problem is as subdermis2000 has already mentioned, getting enough speakers that have similar tonality so that the HT surround field is relatively seamless.

[MJ Clemmer]

Oh, I dunno about that.

If a speaker sounds good for music, it oughta sound good for HT.

The problem is as subdermis2000 has already mentioned, getting enough speakers that have similar tonality so that the HT surround field is relatively seamless.

I have 3 pair of Altec 19s that Im gonna try, I know they all match :thmbsp: Ill let you know how it goes...(gonna be coool) Hard thing about it is to have my son move them into the right space. Its a HUGE room, I just have to move some stuff out the way......MJ:smoke:


BTW, I havent smoked a cigg for just over 2 months now.. (not that anyone cares) but Im proud of that ! ty.... MJ:smoke:

[genojayhawk]

CONGRATS on the NON smoking!!!!!
Keep it up!

[BajaGringo]

I have 3 pair of Altec 19s that Im gonna try, I know they all match :thmbsp: Ill let you know how it goes...(gonna be coool) Hard thing about it is to have my son move them into the right space. Its a HUGE room, I just have to move some stuff out the way......MJ:smoke:


BTW, I havent smoked a cigg for just over 2 months now.. (not that anyone cares) but Im proud of that ! ty.... MJ:smoke:

I am running ALL 70's era big old school style speakers in my HT system and everybody that sits down to listen to the system just goes :rockon:

I second the congrats on dropping those coffin nails...


:music:

[MJ Clemmer]

Thanks a ton guys....... :thmbsp:

[Face]

As mentioned before, Timbre Matching is the most important thing. Speakers that sound alive will make the surround effect more realistic.

As far as choosing large or small, it depends on the size of your woofers. My mains have 15's and my rears have 2 8's per cab, so I choose large and have bass from all four corners of the room plus the sub.